Loading summary
Transcript158 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hello and welcome to the Bowler podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back to the show my buddy USA soccer superfan football super fan. He's the former host of Good Luck America on Snapchat, but he just announced on Monday that he's joining Puck full time as chief national correspondent. He's also been the host of the Powers that Be podcast. It's Peter Hamby. What's up, bro?
- [00:34]
B
Hey, man, how you doing?
- [00:36]
A
I'm doing well. I'm on the mend, so I've got my gator light here. Rapid rehydration and we're doing pretty good. Better than yesterday's podcast. We're going to really nerd out as is our want on campaign politics. Sure. We had a lot of results last night that are interesting. The takes are flying. Before we get to kind of going around the map, I just want to pick out a couple of things from the Maggie Haverman Jonathan Swan book. We'll probably go deeper on this next week, but some of the excerpts are leaking out there. I guess we should start with the JD Marco stuff. They had this anecdote in the book about how Trump has redecorated the office famously to put a lot of gold flourishes in there. Many listeners are unhappy with my take about how I think the more is more effect is a little bit better than what Biden had in the Oval Office. People don't like it. It's my least popular take, but I'm standing by it anyway.
- [01:28]
B
I haven't heard this take from you. Sor you think that you should do sort of maximalist decorations in the Oval Office.
- [01:34]
A
I like the maximalist decorations. When you see the images of Biden, when you see the side by side Biden's pallid skin with the gray off white walls, it's just not good. I feel like as millennials, one of our big misses is everybody. We tried to minimize. Everything was being streamlined. Everybody's houses were more clean, a lot more whites and off whites. You know, it's like the Cracker Barrel redesign. I hated the Cracker Barrel redesign.
- [02:04]
B
Yeah, it's like that coffee shop we went to in slow those years ago where there's like. And by the way, I'm guilty. You can see behind me having like hanging ivy. But you know the. Yeah, exactly. The beige countertops and the sort of the sign where you put in the like, like little letters to order your. The flat white or whatever and they're playing like a low tame Impala beats behind you. I don't by the way, Biden definitely wasn't. But I do think though, the colors kind of work, actually, maybe even the lighting. Things do feel a little brighter in there. When you see the camera pool, they feel brighter.
- [02:38]
A
So anyway, I mean, I wouldn't do everything like Home Depot gold, but I just think as a general matter, a little more maximalism is good. Anyway, Trump was asked about whether he's worried that his successor will undo all that he had done design wise. And this probably is a real worry for Trump. And his response was the Cubans love gold. Which little sly Trump response. He likes to do this. He likes to play these guys off each other. And he's got JD Eating shit right now on the Iran deal. I don't really buy it that Marco is passable for the Republican electorate, but I don't know, I'm just curious what you make of all of it.
- [03:19]
B
I talked about this the other day with Julia Yaffe on my podcast. Thanks for the shout out. We're on YouTube now. The powers that be welcome to YouTube. If you go into polling and I did this the other day with some of our echelon polling, they basically test every question in their battery among MAGA Republicans and party first Republicans. Now you, Tim, and maybe some bulwark listeners would have once identified as a party first Republican, like the more, you know, traditional Bush, McCain, Reagan types before Donald Trump came along. It's been a minute.
- [03:49]
A
It's been a minute.
- [03:50]
B
But they're still out there to an extent. And they tested and I just actually looked in the cross tabs. Those are horse race numbers for Republicans. 20, 28. And Marco loses to Vance among party first Republicans, but not by that much. And he's been creeping up in polls. He's. I can't remember the number of the top of my head, but say he was losing to JD by like 13 points in that horse race poll. Pretty good place to be. Like, I always, I always think heading into presidential primaries, you'd rather run from behind and be the front runner the whole time. But JD is crushing Marco among MAGA Republicans, those Trump first Republicans by like 30 or 40 points. And like, look, that's the party.
- [04:33]
A
You can't win the primary without those voters.
- [04:35]
B
Exactly. And look, I think JD Is definitely out there eating shit in the sense that no one in the foreign policy blob thinks this memorandum of understanding is anything more than a junior high school level, like, document. In terms of diplomacy. It's unpopular. The war is unpopular. JD Is also hawking his book right now, which means he has this previously booked media tour, so he's out there. And I think Trump kind of likes the heat shield, honestly. He likes that JD will go out there and eat shit. And this also comes up in Maggie and Jonathan's book. But Trump can't really talk anymore. He's got a mad libs bucket of like 40 words that he grabs into and he's like, it could be any question, it could be a question about Ukraine. And he'll reach in and be like, auto pen, you know, like whatever, strong, whatever it is. Yeah. And you know, look, I think that if JD is eating shit with the press and the foreign policy establishment Republicans on Capitol Hill, especially Republican senators, and the median voter out there, independent voter who doesn't like Trump, doesn't like J.D. vance, doesn't like the war, but the whole ballgame is really the Republican primary at this point. If they're looking around the bend and you know, maybe this is a cynical political perspective to have for J.D. vance, but if you're him, you know, I think you'd rather just completely own being a Trump loyal soldier than try to do this dance where you're like half in and half out and completely
- [06:03]
A
own the America first thing, which is like, I mean, even though it's an embarrassing MOU and that it's total surrender and it's humiliating, it does put him in the position of being like, I wanted to us out of this as opposed to being the one that wanted us in. So I think that helps. The only fun wrinkle in it is who knows what the fuck 82 year old dementia riddle Trump is going to want to do in two years and we'll talk about his aging next. But so will he try to do something crazy? Obviously. What exactly that will look like, who knows? But assuming he moves on to retired life at Mar a Lago or in the ADU bunker underneath the White House, he will not do what Bush did. It's not like he's going to go away and paint. Right? Like, he is going to like tweet and he's going to play ball. Yeah, yeah. And so could he drag Marco across the line of JD Pist him off? Like. Sure.
- [06:48]
B
My reaction to that at first was like, do Cubans like gold? Like, where did that come from? I mean, Cubans like baseball and coffee and Cubans are very patriotic. The Cuban Americans. I just actually googled this cigars. AI is so dumb and wrong sometimes and they just make things up because they're scraping like a Reddit thread. But this is this Is Gemini. I asked, do Cubans love gold? Yes. Cubans generally have a strong cultural affinity for gold. In Cuban culture, bold gold jewelry, most notably the iconic interlocking Miami Cuban link chain chain necklace, is deeply valued as a symbol of success, prosperity, and resilience. So if we see Marco in a pit bull style Cuban chain, like a hefty gold chain. That's funny. That's funny.
- [07:37]
A
But you mentioned that Trump can't talk anymore. These are a couple other things from the book. He was also having trouble hearing, asking people to repeat questions they just asked. Hey, Renan Swan wrote, they started to have press conferences with world leaders in the Oval Office because the acoustics were better than in the bigger East Room where they had been holding those meetings. I find this hard to believe, but I guess these people would know. The people around Trump say that the thin verbal filter that he had in the past was gone. Stuff that he used to only say in private, he was now saying publicly. I liked this one. Trump was upset about the coverage of his cankles. We did extensive cankles coverage here on the Bulwark YouTube feed. So I'm happy to hear that bothered him. And he asked the press secretary to address it during a media briefing. Some aides thought that was an odd topic, but it was in keeping with his obsession with his declining appearance and, like, this stuff we see publicly. But I think that, like, it's pretty notable over the last year that he's visibly declined. And I think that there was a lot of, like, frustration during the campaign that it was like, why isn't Trump's age as much of a deal as Biden's? And like, it was a fair fine point to make as an academic exercise. But, like, he just didn't seem like he was declining as much as Biden, just in, like, the physical characteristics and that is happening to him now.
- [08:59]
B
There's also the makeup on his hands thing I think that Maggie and Jonathan reported on.
- [09:04]
A
And the neck now the neck.
- [09:06]
B
The hand in the White House House, if you have access to the best physicians in the country. And it's very clear he cares about his appearance, given his hair and orangeness. But, yeah, he has to show his hands on camera and briefings or whatever. And people, you know, eagle eyed people on Twitter, like, zoom in on his hands. You think they have, like, better kind of concealer. Like, it's like mismatched makeup. And so in other words, instead of getting the press secret to go out there and like, talk about the cankles, which, by the way, didn't they say something like didn't Caroline Levitt talk about his venous insufficiency at one point from the podium? I believe that's the cause of the swelling.
- [09:45]
A
Yes.
- [09:45]
B
So clearly like they did. I also thought you were going to bring up and this wasn't in the book, but Stat News reported this the other day. The fact that this is a. That was an incredible scoop that I forget which it was. Either the government or the pharmaceutical company cleared a single use dosage of retatrutide, which is basically like an uncleared peptide. I'm sure RFK Jr uses it. It's like a GLP one, but it also makes you jacked. I live in LA. I know people who do peptides and get shredded off of it.
- [10:17]
A
I didn't bring it up because I was deferring to your expertise on this.
- [10:19]
B
Thank you. Yes. Someone who's very clearly shredded. The White House wouldn't address it. So it's a non denial denial. It's not approved for anyone at that age using it. And federal health officials got involved. It was a great scoop. It was just very obviously that the White House got this for a 70 that says a 79 year old man earlier this year in April. He's now 80. And I just wanted your take on this actually because he looks kind of the same weight like if he is on a GLP1. Yeah, he's certainly like slimmer. Like remember during the playoffs when the White House was posting like him as courtside at a Knicks game from like the 90s? Not that he could name or pick Amari Stoudemire out of a lineup, but they were like talking about how much of a Knicks fan he was. He looked like like a chubbo in the 90s. Like he had like a puffy face and stuff.
- [11:07]
A
Right.
- [11:08]
B
He does look like slimmer than back then. Yeah. But even compared to a few months ago, if he is taking a GLP one, he doesn't look skinnier.
- [11:15]
A
Yeah, no, he looks still hefty to me. Yeah, I think he still would be wearing the man's ear. There was also the other Swan Haberman anecdote was that like his room, I don't like to really think about his bedroom but his bedroom in the White House is apparently disgusting. Like there are like candy wrappers everywhere and like he, I guess he like binge gorges at night at the end and like leaves like disgusting food wrappers everywhere and stuff.
- [11:45]
B
So I just like that you switched, you came out with binges which I think would be the proper health term and just switched it to gorges as an ad lib.
- [11:55]
A
And so like instead of, you know, and if he was having the rare fat shot, you know, that it's only available, you know, on a compassionate basis.
- [12:07]
B
But he kind of teases other people about the fat shot. Like the TrumpRx.gov initiative includes you can buy direct from the pharmaceutical companies a variety of drugs, which he says is a negotiated discount. And he talked about the fat shot a lot when they launched this a few months ago. And he would poke fun at people, like donors. He's like, I know a heavyset guy, like a fat guy. I won't say who he is, but he takes the fat shot. Like he makes on other people, takes the fat shot. But it seems pretty clear he has taken the fat shot.
- [12:37]
A
I think that it's very possible that the President of the United States has taken an experimental fat shot, but I don't know that we fully know for sure. It could be another 79 year old, well connected fatty. Could be.
- [12:47]
B
But didn't they accelerate?
- [12:50]
A
I don't know. Could be.
- [12:52]
B
Did they accelerate during COVID Like, remember when he got Covid? Like, did they accelerate?
- [12:57]
A
He did take some experimental Covid medicine, experimental drugs.
- [13:00]
B
Yeah. They have access to it. And I would too. I would too.
- [13:05]
A
All right, you all know that I got bullied into getting a cat last year. Slinky and I have a complicated relationship, but he's growing on me. One thing I think I wasn't fully prepared for is the random trips to the vent. The bills, the pooping everywhere. It's easy to rack up hundreds or maybe even thousands of dollars for all kinds of things. There's all these medications and specialty supplements and stuff. Or you could keep it simple and keep those bills down by just feeding your cat. Healthy Smalls Fresh cat food is protein packed recipes with preservative free 100% human grade ingredients you find in your fridge and it's delivered right to your door. Slinky loves how it tastes. The thing that makes it so good for them is the protein. Catch Use protein as their main energy source. More protein means more fuel and more sustained energy. And he's been pooping in the cat litter box for quite a while now. So stop serving your little carnivore a bowl of process shortcuts for a limited time because you're a Bulwark podcast listener, get 60% off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com the bulwark one last time, that's 60% off your first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com the bulwark. Okay, moving on to the primaries last night in New York. Just a total route for the DSA challengers in New York. The Mamdani slate won basically everything they'd add, you might remember from during the NBA Finals. Like they're passing the basketball to each other. It's Brad Lander, it's Darieliza Chevalier, it's Valdez, it's these three DSA challengers, two Democratic congressmen, all of them won handily. Well, I guess DIC's race was kind of close. You know, that is causing some consternation among the New York establishment. Tish James was offering this morning how she's a little bit concerned about this. You sent me some good analysis from the Yimby Land account on social media, which I follow religiously as a avowed Yimby. And he kind of, I think, summed up the level of concern about these types of lefty challengers thusly. Mamdani seems like a cool dude who really knows how to vibe with all kinds of folks. The second wave of DSA people don't have the same vibe. They're going to say a bunch of shit that scares the hoes and wind up hurting progressives. This will open up a huge lane for ours in 2028. I'm not sure if it's going to open up a huge lane for ours 2028, but a lot here. Let's just kind of talk about first. About, like, the winning DSA challengers.
- [15:40]
B
Yeah, look, I think you're absolutely right. It's giving Democrats, mainstream Democrats, a lot of heartburn. Someone texted me last night, the good thing about the Mom Donist purges, when they come, is that they don't believe in prisons. And look, I mean, I, I want to get into some details of these races. And, you know, I think it's also fair to look at this as a limited New York slash Mamdani phenomenon, because we've talked about this. I mean, Mamdani, despite saying he has his music taste, is pretty limited. When he came on the Bulwark Podcast when he was running for mayor is a. People throw this word around, like, generational talent, but he is. He just is.
- [16:23]
A
He just is.
- [16:24]
B
He just is.
- [16:24]
A
He's got it.
- [16:25]
B
If he, like you said the other day, like, if he wasn't born in Africa, like, would be talking about him running for president. And, like, this is one thing it's that this time?
- [16:34]
A
28.
- [16:35]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's magnetic. He's good at social media. All of the sort of like tactical, superficial stuff. Yes. But remember, yeah, he ran as a socialist and a Free Palestine candidate and that spooked a lot of mainstream Democrats and Jews, of course. And like AIPAC hates him. And, you know, this is the reason Dan Goldman lost in the city. Like, the Free Palestine movement has replaced the COVID safety movement and which replaced the, you know, pro climate sunrise movement. Like, there's a through line of like, young people in cities there. But he also is governing as a, like, you know, a pothole guy. He was out there shoveling the snow, bringing the homeless inside.
- [17:20]
A
The gays love wearing the 12,000 holes filled shirt.
- [17:24]
B
Yeah. But you know, instead of like, during his campaign even, he acknowledged he did the defund the police thing and then broke bread with the cops and hasn't talked shit about cops.
- [17:37]
A
Increased. Increased police funding.
- [17:39]
B
That's happening again also out here in LA with Nithya Raman, who is DSA affiliated, not full dsa, who was a defund person who is now running away from that. And Karen Bass is flogging her with that. But back to New York, he's governing not as a socialist ideologue. And on top of the fact that he's got Mega Riz and is young and his speech about the Knicks at the. Before the Knicks victory parade, I was talking to people out here in my friend group who, like, aren't dsa. These people at least weren't DSA fans or Zoran fans. Like, that's one of the best speeches I've ever seen. Like, he just makes politics relatable and tangible to people in a way that doesn't feel academic. Now, these other candidates who won last night, and there are also a bunch of people that went to the State assembly. These are not as charismatic candidates. And in the case of Chevalier, I think that tweet from Yimbiland is correct, which is that, you know, she. By the way, one reason I'm wearing this jersey, she said she was rooting against the world, US and the World Cup.
- [18:41]
A
Let me run through her greatest hits. Can we just do that? Sure. Because look, just in these other candidates, Valdez seems like, I mean, she's left, but like kind of a conventional Bernie style left. Yeah.
- [18:51]
B
But also like labor. Labor left.
- [18:53]
A
Yeah. Lander, we talked about the Goldman deal yesterday. Leander has played this very well. And one thing that's funny, you mentioned that when Zoran came on my pod, the Question that caused the controversy about asking him about whether he condemns globalize Intifada. One of the reasons why I was like, that was a totally fair question and he shouldn't have bungled it was that they had asked the same question at the debate a week before, and Lander gave this great nuanced answer to it. As somebody who's a Jew and wants Israelis to be safe, and he wouldn't say it for that reason, but he's also upset about the way that Israel's acting now. Lander just, like, definitely navigated the situ. The kind of changing views on. On Israel's behavior. And yeah, he would have beaten anybody in the primary. He was an extremely strong candidate. I don't know, should we call her Dariela Chevalier or dac? I kind of like DAC as an aoc.
- [19:42]
B
I think DAC is easier to say. Sure.
- [19:44]
A
Okay. We're Nicole dac. I want to read you some of her hits. She attended a pro Palestinian rally in Times Square on October 8, 2023. So the day after the October 7 terrorist attack, Brad Lander left the DSA over their promotion of that same rally. She had thousands of posts and reposts expressing support for abolishing police prisons and borders, as well as seizing private property. She rejected. You know how some of the lefties tried to spin that, like, abolish the police was more of just like, this is kind of more of a saying. It didn't mean, like, literally defund the police.
- [20:19]
B
It was a budget procedure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [20:22]
A
It was kind of more of a break. It was like more of a bumper sticker. It wasn't. No. She rejected that and says, no, it means ending policing, full stop, period. No more police at all, ever. Clap emoji, clap emoji, clap emoji, clap emoji. So that was her view on that. She was then asked about this in this campaign, on this New York editorial board thing that Ben Smith is doing. She was asked four times about what to do about murderers and whether they should go to jail, and she couldn't answer that question. She posted, fuck Kamala Harris. She called Joe Biden a rapist. She said that all deportation is wrong. And as you mentioned, she said she was rooting for Senegal in the World Cup. I googled this this morning. She does not appear to be Senegalese, so I don't know why. She has some Dominican and Venezuelan origin, maybe also some Senegalese, I don't know. But she said she was rooting for Senegal in the World cup, and she also has Said that when she couldn't find a napkin, she wiped her dirty hands on the American flag. So that's.
- [21:16]
B
So you're saying she's a bulwark candidate?
- [21:21]
A
I don't know, man. I mean, I'm open to creative ideas for ways that the Democrats should try to do things differently, but I'm not vibing on that.
- [21:30]
B
She called white women ugly colonizer women. Sort of.
- [21:34]
A
Also said she was against interracial marriage at one point. I think.
- [21:37]
B
Yeah, look, I mean, I think this is what I'm getting at. And Bernie, to his credit, over the years, really has focused on economic populism. Yes. Class warfare.
- [21:49]
A
Sure.
- [21:50]
B
You know, taxing the rich, billionaires. He's very uncomfortable with cultural issues. He never, you know, he was more. He was more aligned, you know, in the early Trump days and pre Trump days with, you know, labor unions. He still is. Sorry, but like back in the 2019 primaries. 2020, when the Democrats were all raising their hand to like decriminalize border crossings, like, that's not Bernie. Bernie, like, you know, he's from a rural state. Like, he, you know, isn't like a gun. Anti gun or crusader or gun safety person. He's a. Cultural issues just aren't his bag. He cares about economic issues and that sets. That set him apart from aoc, who did have prison abolition tweets and does, or has at least talked about intersectionality and pronouns in her bio. You know, whatever. However many genders James Talarico thinks there are. And so that's. I think what I'm getting at with Mamdani is for all of his. Yes, he's. When he's asked about Israel, APAC and Palestine, he talks about it with reporters. But front of mind for him, messaging is like constituent services and like affordability and those things that, despite his DSA branding and history, he's governing as just a mayor. And like Chevalier, you know, she's going to get to Congress. And it's. By the way, Valdez is also like, don't send any money to Israel, not even Iron Dome. Okay. But again, I think she's more rigorously on message.
- [23:18]
A
I mean, that's going to be the majority position on the Democratic caucus.
- [23:21]
B
But, you know, I can see Chevalier getting to Congress and being like a louder, more lightning rod version of, you know, Rashida Tlaib. Like, she seems like she's a poster. She can't help herself. She is one of these, like, extremely online, you know, millennial Gen Z Cuspers who has made social justice their entire personality. And a lot of savvier politicians, I think. And who's to say if she's savvy or not? Because she won. But she's going to go to Washington after having won a D 30 district. And, you know, a lot of New Yorkers are like this, whether they're in politics or not. They think New York's the center of the universe and that she has a mandate to, you know, talk about Palestine and Israel. And it's going to be a thorn in the side of Democratic leadership. I'm certain.
- [24:09]
A
She beat the chair of the Hispanic Caucus, so we got to at least recognize that. And he ran a horrific campaign.
- [24:15]
B
The New York Times did break out which precincts these candidates won in and lost in. And the DSA phenomenon, while they did make inroads last night with black and Hispanics, it continues to be a white, affluent phenomenon. One Democrat, like close to Jeffries, told me yesterday that the district that Claire Valdez won in, which is New York 7, called the most gentrified district in the country, like this is the MJ Lenderman, like Bushwick voter.
- [24:44]
A
Right.
- [24:44]
B
Like the white, like Columbia protester, like Chevalier.
- [24:49]
A
Just so that's what there's this great video I said of her event where it's like they're all white shouting, you're next. They're all shouting, you're next. You're next. At Hakeem Jeffries, which shows you that this is going to be a thorn on the side of the establishment. And at some levels, Hakeem Jeffries can, could. Can probably use some challenging. But, yeah, no, it is all. It's all dirtbag white people who, like, are just like your classic stereotype Brooklyn look. You're not kind of shouting at Hakeem Jeffries at this event.
- [25:16]
B
Yeah. And I think looking at the broader picture from last night, while New York thinks the center of the universe, Mamdani himself has political capital and spent it to get his people elected. Now, again, outside of New York, the DSA success story is not the same. It's just not.
- [25:34]
A
Let's just pause at that for a second because we're going to go around. I just have a couple of New York things. I just want to hit on some of this. Make your point. So you have Richie Torres, who has been kind of the most pro Israel Democrat, really even more so than Dan Goldman. Interestingly, he won last night. He didn't have a strong DSA challenger. He did have a challenger, kind of pretended to be dsa kind of. But he's in a more Working class district. He's not in the Bronx. It's not. Not as many college educated renters, not
- [25:59]
B
as many white renters.
- [26:00]
A
So that's notable in New York 12, which is the district that George Conway ran in. RIP George Conway. I always just thought there'd be better districts for him than that, but nothing but love for George Michael Asher wins that candidate. Who's the establishment candidate replacing Jerry Nadler?
- [26:16]
B
Jerry Nadler endorsed Bloomberg, spent a bunch of millions on him.
- [26:20]
A
Yeah, he wins that in New York 12. And then AOC, interestingly, has no tweets at the time we're recording this about any of these candidates. I don't know exactly what the plan is for aoc, but she's been very savvy, I think, lately on picking fights, picking battles, or maybe it turns out to be not savvy, I don't know, who knows? But she has definitely not gone all in with this kind of DSA crowd to the same degree that you might have thought she would.
- [26:47]
B
Yeah, she's been over the years, like, again, she. She had the prison abolition tweets and the intersectionality tweets. The. The lefty cultural stuff, you know, transgender surgeries for prisoners. She has moved away from that. This is her backyard. She is supposedly deeply involved, and I think she is deeply involved. She was at the Knicks parade. She was with Mount Donnie. But she, like, whether she wants to run statewide. And by the way, we're talking about the socialist Kathy Hochul, like, has run a great campaign and quashed a potential challenger from the left who dropped out of the race many months ago or whether AOC wants to run for president. I think she understands that the, you know, Chevalier wipe your ass with the American flag thing, that's not going to play in Pennsylvania or North Carolina. She is still unpopular with the median voter, like aoc. Like Democrats and the press are obsessed with aoc. She has work to do with independent voters if she wants to have a larger national profile. But also, look at Bernie Sanders. He endorsed Claire Valdez. He endorsed Brad Lander. He did not endorse Chevalier, while Mamdani did.
- [27:56]
A
Neither did Roe. I noticed Roe has been endorsing a lot of those candidates also didn't endorse.
- [28:01]
B
Maybe that's because, like, he personally or his team did a vet, and they're like, she doesn't seem like she's going to keep her eye on the ball, which is, you know, we got to focus on the billionaire class. She's going to be a distraction. And even last night, Bernie, he Congratulated after they Juan Valdez and Brad Lander. He did not congratulate Chevalier. And so I think if you are interested in building political power as a leftist in this country, you have to focus on affordability, access to housing and healthcare and try to mitigate as much as possible the social issues that are going to drag you down. I was talking to someone at the nrcc, the National Republican Campaign Committee last night who was just like, oh my gosh, when they call this race, I'm about to go scorched earth. Like remember in 2018 or 2020 and all the House ads, they would shove Pelosi's face in the ads, the Republicans
- [28:53]
A
and then AOC and Elon Omar's face would be in there.
- [28:56]
B
Like Chevalier is going to be that person now for Republican ad makers and who knows if that matters or not in like, you know, frontline districts in Nebraska. Republicans will certainly try to make this person the face of an America hating socialist, abolished prisons, Democratic Party.
- [29:16]
A
The only other thing I'd add to that on AOC is in addition to kind of like the not engaging in some of the potentially more brand harmful fights that you're seeing in the activist circles, she is picking other fights and she's been here in the Deep south rallying against the data center video.
- [29:33]
B
She did was really good.
- [29:34]
A
Yeah, so she's been there on the voting rights stuff, on data center stuff. Her little press conference coming out of the House she's doing during a lot of the shutdown fights. So it's definitely noteworthy that she didn't fully wrap herself in this kind of Mamdani movement. There's some pretty significant GOP fuck ups. Is this Lovett that I'm stealing this from? There's some, there's like always this kind of sense that like Democrats are the responsible party and you expect them to be responsible and like the Republicans are the children and you don't expect them to. And so like when Democrats do irresponsible things, you really focus on it. So anyway, I do want to bring even handed to this because there have been some insanely irresponsible Republican fuckups in primaries too. But just really quick before we get to that around the country last night. So DSA candidates lost in primaries in Maryland and Utah Westmore and this again speaks to having a charismatic endorsee matters like a lot of voters just don't. Aren't as nerdy as we are. Like aren't in minute 33 of a podcast where they know the details of every candidate they're like I like Zoran. He said these are the people he like. I'm going with it. Wes Moore did this in Maryland. He's popular in Maryland. Different type of Democrat. I've obviously a lot of the Democrats, the ones he endorsed last night, one of Maryland, he one of his endorses wins over of a Pelosi pick in the Maryland fifth District. He wants some of the local races. Then you got to Utah, Ben McAdams who's a more moderate candidate. He wins over a buzzy left candidate, Nate Bluein in the Salt Lake District that I think the Democrats are going to pick up. Strong Dem, kind of reformist, center left candidate. And South Carolina one Charleston, that was that seat that the Democrats did take the last wave year. That would have been 18. And then mace takes the seat after that.
- [31:18]
B
Joe Cunningham.
- [31:19]
A
Yeah, yeah, Joe Cunningham. Yeah. There's been some redistricting since then. It's not exactly the same seat. But anyway, that's kind of what else was happening around the country outside of New York yesterday. I don't know if you have anything else on that.
- [31:28]
B
Yeah, no, I mean Wes Moore, I think with Bill himself as a results oriented pragmatic Democrat, his pick in Maryland's fifth beat back DSA challenger by the way, also in New York, I mentioned hochul in the 17th district, which is Mike Lawlor, Kate Conley one handily, that's like upper Westchester, Hudson Valley. There was a Free Palestine justice person in that race who she absolutely curb stomped. You've got Utah, you've got county executive seats in Maryland that DSA people lost in. And this is a larger thing I wanted to talk to you about is the limitations. The question is, is this a limited phenomenon to New York City, These dense urban strongholds with a lot of affluent college educated surplus elites, quite frankly who see politics as a hobby and obviously have issues that they're passionate about. But does it extend beyond New York? Because here in LA you've got DSA members on the city council who got reelected pretty handling the primary or will win in November. You've got Nithya Raman, who again is not purebred DSA, but had some DSA support in the past. And you do have in Seattle, you know, a socialist affiliated mayor. You're, you're, we're about to have that in Washington D.C. and so in the blue urban cores you do see it. But like there's not really like a vibrant DSA in Boston. There's not certainly not in San Francisco right now. Daniel Lurie has swept most of them to the curb.
- [32:55]
A
Yeah.
- [32:56]
B
And then you go bigger than just the cities where you know, oh, sorry, we have a DSA mayor in Chicago who is a flop, that's for sure. You know, you've got Abdullah Sayed in Michigan. If he wins, that would be the first real kind of statewide, I think DSA success story. DSA affiliated, I think.
- [33:15]
A
Yeah, it depends if you count platinum,
- [33:16]
B
but yeah, but look at California. Like California 22 is a great example. So up in the Valley, right. This is David Valadeo's district. Randy Villegas is a Bernie endorsed candidate. A young Latino guy who advanced to the general election beat back, you know, the Jeffries D trip person. And you know he's running on. Yes, he mentioned the apac. He mentions AIPAC sometimes, but that district has more people on Medicaid than any district in the country. Like if he's going door to door and talking about Palestine, you know, he gets waxed, but he's talking about affordability and healthcare. And yes, Bernie endorsed him, but that gets to Bernie's antenna. Like this guy is running on working class, middle class issues. And so I think a real test will be like that's a frontline battleground district with a Bernie endorsed candidate who is not in a blue urban core. And so California 22 will be like a great test case. And also in California, lots of other socialist wannabes ran and lost all over the state. And yes, it's expensive out here, but so is New York. And so yeah, I mean, I think, I think the, the candidate charisma thing can't be undercounted as a big A factor in this race. That Mamdani ad you mentioned during the Knicks playoff series was incredible. You had people looking for signal from him. Millions of people in New York, almost everybody tuned into the Knicks playoff games. Here's an ad. And Zoran Mamdani, who most people like, although less popular than Daniel Lurie, I should say. One of my Lurie friends told me to say that he's on camera saying, vote for Chevalier, vote for Valdez, vote for Leonard. Okay, like that's a validator for me. Good. And that's his Riz. It's not necessary. They didn't just win because of DSA or because of Justice Dems or because of Working Families Party.
- [35:07]
A
I mean, I think we can be honest. I think that the. And I want to get into some counterexamples of this, but I think that the populist left folks are winning the argument on refocusing, on billionaires, on economic Populism and oh yeah, obviously on Israel and. But that's not the left though. Yeah, sure. So that's what I'm saying. I think that like there are a couple different things happening. That's all. It's a big diverse country. Things are happening in different districts or a couple different things that are happening all at the same time. And it's like there's like a brand of like social justice left person who like you said, would have been an Occupy Wall street person 20 years ago, would have been a climate person 10 years ago, would have been, you know, Covid masking forever masking five years ago. And it's like now and it's like an omni cause kind of left activist person. And like that is what is being organized in the big cities. And it is a lot of college educated, affluent whites. But they're in coalition, I think with a lot of minority voters and they're having success in urban areas for sure. DAC is not going to win a primary anywhere else. And that's not like a 2028 path to success. Right. There just isn't majority support for the. But the question then is more of, okay, what is the right path elsewhere and what is the right. What are the things that can be taken from the populist left or what types of candidates can win? And that's where you look at a Dan Osborne type. You look at maybe El said, we'll see Platner and different things is like, can you run where it is more like a Bernie 16 style thing that focuses on the economic and the foreign policy side and de emphasizes the cultural stuff. We're about to find out in November. But like I think that is. I think that argument is what's winning. They might not be right, but part of the reason I think they're winning the argument is that there's a lot of frustration among Democrats. Like we tried it the establishment's way. We put up Kamala, Joe Biden, Hillary. Trump won twice. Trump won twice. Like, people like, I saw a lot of this conversation on the Internet, like, why weren't people happier with Dan Goldman and why aren't they happier with Diana de Guerre? I'm in Colorado. She's running ads about impeachment. Her work on impeachment. It's like, well, yeah, I'm stealing this from Weigel. Was like, Democratic voters aren't impressed with your work on impeachment because Trump fucking won again. You know, Democratic voters, like, we're looking for something different. Is this thing that is being offered the right thing. I don't know. I wouldn't put my mortgage on it. But I think that it's totally explicable why they're looking for that different thing given Trump's two time win.
- [37:41]
B
What I agree with you on is that you can take the economic populism, whatever the argument, like the power utilities are driving up rates for you or you know, you can't afford the rent, export those anywhere in the country. I agree with you on that. The social justice, cultural stuff, I think like you said, no one agrees that that can be exported. I think the common takeaway also is the generational aspect and the fact that I think Democratic leadership in Washington and the older generation just doesn't understand the anger of the base right now. And this happened with Crowley and AOC in 2018 and the issue set that was a little different and it was a different era and that was the first Trump term. But this just restive Democratic base that says you guys not only aren't doing enough, but you have failed. And I think this is what we're seeing from this up and coming generation who's screaming that these ossified leaders haven't done anything for you. That's valuable for sure. And I think that is a signal lesson that we've been seeing across the primary elections everywhere. Like that's absolutely the case.
- [38:51]
A
Let's look at some of the Republican fails. We're going to rapid fire through it. Nobody's talking about the Georgia. I don't if somebody people are.
- [38:57]
B
But are you saying the media is too focused on New York and doesn't understand red and purple states or leave their cultural and academic and elite bubbles?
- [39:05]
A
Maybe Peter or maybe these races are just kind of boring and so there's not as much to talk about. But so I will try to make a dramatic statement right now about the races in Georgia and North Carolina that will hopefully drive attention to races that are boring. I think that the Republicans are going to stop spending money in either Georgia or North Carolina or both by the end of the year. I think that they're going to give up on both of those races in the Senate. Roy Cooper Here are the last five polls in the North Carolina Senate race. Roy Cooper plus 14 plus 11 plus 7 plus 9 plus 8 like that feels non real. Trump won North Carolina in Georgia. Here's the money disparity. COLLINS Republican has just 1 million on hand as of May 27. Ossoff has 32 million. He raised 60. Ossoff is running a perfect race. Collins, the Republican Is I have to bring this up because of producer Ansley. Remember the Ole Miss kids doing the monkey noises?
- [40:04]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [40:04]
A
At the black woman. Mike Collins posted a video of that on Twitter saying, ole Miss taking care of business. And then the video of the monkey noises. So I don't know how that's gonna play in Atlanta, but I think quite poorly. And so the Republicans have somehow managed to take two Southern Senate seats basically off the board by summer. That's pretty good incompetence.
- [40:27]
B
No, absolutely. I mean, Whatley, the Republican nominee in North Carolina, is just a great example of the downsides of this late stage Trumpism where he just won the primary because he's a Trump functionary and is a lifeless political talent, despite being a former RNC chairman, is also not doing a great job raising money. But the Georgia race also that interests me is the governor's race because. And this is also kind of a symptom of Trumpism, you have this, I think he's a car dealer, the Rick
- [40:58]
A
Jackson guy, the health care executive. Health care executive. Okay. Well, Trump had endorsed Bert Jones, lieutenant governor, who tried to help him steal the election in 2020.
- [41:06]
B
That's right. That's right. Then you have this rascally outsider spending all of his money, promising outlandish things, and he wins the primary despite Trump endorsing Bert Jones. And I've been saying this recently a lot. If you look at Iowa, look at Ohio and also Georgia, this is another strength for Georgia. You've got this tandem going on on the Democratic ticket where you've got a very strong, well funded Senate candidate and Jon Ossoff and, you know, Keisha, Lance Bottoms, perhaps not as popular, but safe sort of governor choice who will play well in Atlanta and maybe some of the Atlanta suburbs and, you know, possibly among pockets of rural black folks in that state, balancing each other out. Like, Ossoff will need to get some black voters out and Lance Bottoms will help him. And I just think that that compared to the Republican dysfunction, you can just kind of read the writing on the wall in certain races in midterm years. Like, the environment is so bad. There's candidate talent, there's money, like fundamentals still count for something. And I'm with you. Like Georgia, if you're, if I'm a national Republican, I'm looking at the map. I'm like, we could put $10 million on air in Georgia this week in October, or we could do that in Ohio, or we could do that in Alaska, even Texas.
- [42:22]
A
Or we could try to steal Michigan, maybe Like if we try to go on offense, take a shot. I think that's probably unlikely but. But it feels more likely the Republican Senate committee is just rake stepping all over the south and that's enjoyable. You mentioned in addition to Trump losing, Trump is losing his touch on the governor's race endorsey. As you mentioned, he lost the Georgia governor's race endorsey. In Iowa he endorsed Randy Feenstrom over the cockering magnate. And then last night his South Carolina endorsement choice lost throttle.
- [42:51]
B
Absolutely fucking wax. Can I say that word on the bulwark? Sorry listeners. Obviously this, this was fascinating and didn't get enough coverage and also kind of shows how like I don't know, Washington reporters kind of miss the forest of the trees sometimes. The South Carolina governor's race, there's is a crowded field. The Lieutenant Governor Pam Evit the Lieutenant Governor to Henry McMaster who's one of Trump's earliest endorsers. You know his team lobbied the Trump political team at the White House for an endorsement because a Trump endorsement always wins primaries. Trump gave this perfun half hearted, true social endorsement which he's want to do in his cankles era and you know, his heart wasn't in it. Like he didn't go there to barnstorm the state. He's busy. There's a war in Iran, I get it. But Evatt just totally flopped. She won the primary barely I think didn't even hit 30%. I know it was a crowded primary. I can't think of any Republican primary 10 him in the entire Trump era where one of his endorsed candidates only got 30%. And so I wrote for Puck like well this is bad news. This is a huge flop. People like someone from Roll Call was like Trump's candidates won go to the runoff. Alan Wilson, the Attorney general, he won by like 30 points all over the state. He won every county. He won Greenville County. And like some of that is candidate talent. Like they didn't scrutinize this person. When you're a lieutenant governor like you don't do anything. She's the opposite of Mamdani like 0riz and you know Trump's gov candidates like he's lost three endorsements and I'm not saying the magic has worn off because when they put their sweat and money into beating people they don't like in Indiana, in Kentucky with Thomas Massie, the Trump people pull it off. But when they just sort of like fire off this half hearted endorsement on true social media, like you know, I think some voters like Want a little more than that.
- [44:51]
A
I'm surprised that Nancy Macy's attack on Alan Wilson, that he protected sexual abusers and he dismissed child porn cases. I'm surprised that didn't land. I don't know if that's because South Carolina voters are, like, pro Epstein now or because they. They think that Nancy Mace is crazy.
- [45:09]
B
I mean, having lived in Columbia, like, there's just a lot of personal rivalries there for things that we can't even think about. Like Nancy Mace and Alan Wilson and Tim Scott. They were in the State House back in the day. There's probably some. They probably are miffed at each other that someone didn't buy him a drink in Five Points in 2007, and that manifests itself today.
- [45:32]
A
Somebody slept with somebody else's staffer. Not Tim Scott, because we gotta respect asexuals. It's Pride Month. They're part of the LGBTQIA community. But it's one of the other two, might add. Speaking of Pride Month, any other. Any additional thoughts on the Iowa vibrating, conquering magnate the Republicans have nominated? We spent a lot of time in Iowa.
- [45:56]
B
Firm Tech is a sexual health company.
- [45:59]
A
Tim and I. I just. I haven't had a chance to. To get mine charged yet. We appreciated the. The gift that the Firm Tech people sent me. And, you know, we'll see. We'll give a review at some point. Point.
- [46:11]
B
Eleanor would like your review on camera, please. Thanks. I don't know.
- [46:16]
A
Doesn't seem like a great nominee. Things still run at a pace for Rob sand there in the Iowa governor's race. All right. Are we going to get to dessert? Oh, wait. Before dessert. No. I promised you if we're going to have you back on. You were smeared. Your reputation was smeared on the Borg podcast recently. I guess it's not a smear. A smear would be saying something about someone. That is untrue. You were attacked. You were attacked on the Borg podcast by my and Jon Favreau in love. It was a loving attack. Because you know your takes. We're all out here slinging takes all the time. And so we have some misses we'll get into one of mine. But you were a little bit. A little bit more bullish on Spencer Pratt than maybe at Meredith.
- [46:56]
B
That's my point.
- [46:57]
A
Was a little more bullish.
- [46:58]
B
Let me revisit. I had not a tape.
- [47:02]
A
You didn't have to do this.
- [47:03]
B
A deeply reported article examining whether Spencer Pratt. That can win in Los Angeles, both as an influencer candidate and as a crime and public safety Republican. And expand his appeal beyond just white people in Los Angeles. That was the premise.
- [47:22]
A
Turns out the answer was extremely no, no, not even close.
- [47:25]
B
Which I, by the way, I was one of the people journalists who wrote that he has no appeal with black and Latino voters. If anyone read below it. Anyway, I felt smeared because you lumped a factual statement, which is that Spencer Pratt went around Los Angeles and he never mentioned Donald Trump and talked about Daniel Lurie as his role model. Whether that was phony or not. You put that in with like a bunch of like right wing Tommy Lahren, Clay Travis takes about how Spencer Pratt was going to save la. And then you were like, and here's Peter Hamby and you're both like, laughing at your friend. I thought that was silly. And then John, okay, sorry. You know, also bud, but like, like, I'm sorry, guys. There was one poll showing Nithyan, this is fine Los Angeles politics. You were a little thought that Nithya Rahman was going to make the runoff. Except for like a handful of people in Silver Lake, everyone thought Spencer Pratt was going to make the runoff. But those same people, no one thought he was actually going to win the election. And so I, I just thought as
- [48:27]
A
two actors, that's all.
- [48:28]
B
In front of a journalist just writing a.
- [48:31]
A
An article, I predict that it was a miss. It was a miss. And because of that, I wanted to give you the opportunity to fire back on any bad takes you thank me or John about. I'm not going to concede that it was not a miss. It was a miss. But favs. And I also miss. And so I just wondered if I'm giving you an open swing, we'll do favs than you.
- [48:51]
B
So John and his team campaigned very hard for Karen Bass in 2022 on their content activations. Called Rick Caruso a bored billionaire who can't do the job of running la again. A lot of people here probably regret that. You know, that was like pre. That was like 2022. Just partisanship. Like, vote for the person with the D next to their name. But I think that that action, you know, we have since seen because of Karen Bass, that it has its limits. I don't want to, like, talk shit too much. I don't know who John voted for,
- [49:25]
A
but I do think that the Pod Bros. You don't have to talk. I'll talk shit for you. I do think that the Pod Bros may be. I've had a change of tune on Karen Bass.
- [49:32]
B
No, but they're like, they want Nithya Raman now And it's funny, I'm put them aside. There are lots of Democrats here who just like will be on Instagram saying Karen Bass is a disaster, that she has failed the city. The very same people who four years earlier were saying that Karen Bass was going to save LA against an anti abortion mini Trump billionaire named Rick Caruso. It's like, like you guys voted for this person, you know, and you're allowed to change your minds, I guess. But it's just like it looks just kind of silly in hindsight.
- [50:05]
A
And speaking of smears, they were smearing Rick Caruso, who would have been kind of a Daniel Lurie style. This was my main pick with your Spencer Pratt. Thing is that Pratt wasn't really that much like Lurie, but Caruso was.
- [50:15]
B
I didn't say
- [50:17]
A
my bad take, which I'll nominate for myself because I was getting dunked on all over social media this week for this. This is kind of the danger of pottery. I had like an argument that I had formulated like years ago that was a nuanced take on what Obama should have done with regards to the Merrick Garland nomination that I shorthanded when the conversation with Ta Nehisi Coates in a way that made it like, actually wrong. I had said to Ta Nehisi that Obama should have just jammed through Merrick Garland, which many people rightly were making fun of me for, because they were like, he couldn't do that. There were only 46 Democratic senators. The point that I meant to make that I didn't was that in that moment, Obama quit campaigning for that go to seat. And there were really. And he had two options.
- [51:08]
B
Yeah, he thought the norms would prevail.
- [51:09]
A
The reality is he thought, and this started because Coates was bringing up that Obama didn't believe Trump could win. And because he didn't believe Trump could win. It's kind of like they nominated Garland and it's like, whatever, Hillary will clean this up next year when really he should have done one or two things. This will be less appealing to the Coats crowd. But go to the Republicans and say, who could I nominate that you would bring up and actually work with them on someone? And maybe they never would have done that. I don't know. But you could have put pressure on them or use Barack Obama's skill set to actually go out and make this a major campaign issue, that they're blocking this and that they want to take away your abortion rights and et cetera, et cetera. And like, they didn't really do either of those things.
- [51:51]
B
It wasn't a campaign issue in 2016,
- [51:53]
A
and it was, but like, did he really campaign to get Merrick Garland through? I mean, like really, like to the degree that the Republicans campaign for Supreme Court justices, like, was there anything comparative?
- [52:05]
B
I went to good old Wikipedia and tried to remember the 114th Congress and there were 46, 6, 44 Dems, 2 independents, 46 Democrats. So if he swapped out Garland, like, which of these Republicans would have, you know, disobeyed Mitch McConnell and voted for the replacement? Like Kelly Aott, like Danes, like Murkowski? I don't know who would have flipped, Maybe, I guess, but I don't know. People were pretty beholden to Mitch McConnell at that point.
- [52:36]
A
It's a fair point.
- [52:37]
B
I mean, you are clearly wrong.
- [52:39]
A
I was clearly wrong. It's a fair point. I was clearly wrong. I remember at the time feeling like it was a lame duck effort, that there's a little bit of senioritis and it was like, we're going to put Garland up. And I think Coates's argument, which is maybe a better one, it's like, if you're not going to be able to get it through, don't put up mealy Merrick Garland. Put out somebody that people be very excited about and make it a campaign issue. So people realize, I will tell you in 2016, let me just put it this way, I was totally wrong. But I do think this is an important learning. I remember in 2016, speaking, because this was really my world to many anti Trump Republican types, college educated Republican types, one of our mutual friends, grandmothers, somebody that I would mention on this and she was, says to me, I don't like him, but I gotta vote for him over the courts. We have to vote for him over the Supreme Court because there's gonna be an appointment up. And I just don't think that same thing was happening going the other way. I don't think that there was a big effort to be like, you have to vote for Hillary because they're going to take away your abortion rights.
- [53:41]
B
This has been a minor preoccupation of mine for a long time, actually, because for whatever reason, covering Republican politics for so long, and that's how I know you from the pre Trump era. I've just read a lot about the evangelical movement and their alliance with Republican politics and the Christian Coalition and Jerry Falwell and all of that. The Republican Coalition and the white evangelical vote have long made appointing justices to the court like, you know, stop Roe going back to the 70s, like their thing and you see people on Twitter, on the left over the years being like we've got to vote for Democrats because of the Supreme Court. It just, it's never inspired the similar, a similar passion with the Democratic base at all. Like so if Ta Nehisi is saying and I listened to that pod and it was really good, you know they should have put up Katanji Brown Jackson and that would have inspired people to go out and vote. Like no, not really. I don't think so. I think maybe not. The Democrats are just generally concerned with an issue set and by the way they should be concerned the rbg.
- [54:42]
A
And now I think that's changing. I think it's flipped now. Maybe, maybe.
- [54:46]
B
But I do think it's always been more judges has always been a thing you would hear in Republican primaries for House and Senate and like Ohio or Texas on the Republican side and just it's judges is something that didn't really come up outside of nerdier Harvard Law grad Democrats running for office.
- [55:04]
A
A couple we all have bad takes. That one was mine. I have two desserts. It's a multi course dessert. We're way overtime so we'll do them quickly. First one, I just wanted to give everybody an update on Brian Gnome and bimbofication. There's some sad news on this front. According to a podcast that Brian's dominatrix was on recently, on May 17, one month after news broke that Brian was messaging with the dominatrix, he sent her a text. The text said, I've been a really bad boy. She responded, oh, I know, I know you've been a bad boy. And then after that she felt bad and ultimately told him that she needed to distance herself and ghost him that this relationship couldn't move on. So that's just a pretty sad development on the Brian Gnome bimbofication news.
- [55:52]
B
Yes. Pride month, Tim. And you're more more fluent in queer communities than I am. Where would if Brian wants to go full bimbro, where should he move to? The West Village?
- [56:07]
A
I don't know. You know, an early community in trans culture was in Colorado. Actually it's in Trinidad, south of Pueblo. So maybe he could start a new community there. Kind of a bimbro community in Trinidad. Because it would kind of speak to their historical significance. That's the first thing that comes to mind. Fort Lauderdale would be a second choice.
- [56:30]
B
Florida.
- [56:31]
A
Yeah, yeah, Fort Lauderdale maybe. My last thing is a surprise I have for you. Today is the 17 year anniversary of what. We'll go to the audio tape.
- [56:45]
C
I had a Conversation with Gina Smith this morning when I arrived in Atlanta and I told her about
- [56:56]
B
my love
- [56:56]
C
of the Appalachian Trail. And I used to organize hiking trips, actually when I was in high school. I would get a soccer coach or a football coach to act as chaperone. And then I'd get folks to pay me 60 bucks each or whatever it was to take the trip and then off would go and have these great
- [57:17]
B
adventures on the Appalachian Trail seven minutes later.
- [57:22]
C
And so the bottom line is this. I've been unfaithful to my wife.
- [57:26]
B
Been unfaithful to my wife.
- [57:28]
C
I developed a relationship with a. Which started as a dear, dear friend from Argentina. It began very innocently, as I suspect many of these things do. Just a casual email back and forth in advice on one's life there and advice here. But here, recently, over this last year, it developed into something much more than that.
- [58:02]
B
I was in the room, you were there, I was there. So I got a little teary eyed, like Mark Sanford watching that because that was like, that was my first big break. I broke the news that Sanford's car was parked at the airport and not like somewhere else on the Appalachian Trail, which set off more alarm bells. I was standing right next to Mark to stage left. It was just like I was down there for cnn. It was the biggest story in the entire world. Japanese television came into Columbia, South Carolina, German TV like different era. All the networks were trying to book Jenny Sanford and Mark Sanford. And by the way, those emails that Mark mentioned, you know, how the affair got discovered? Do you remember this?
- [58:49]
A
I don't remember.
- [58:50]
B
So he was writing emails to Maria Balen Chapour, who he's not with anymore. He would, Mark, an oddball, would print them off and keep them in a file folder. And Jenny just found the emails printed off in a file folder. Not good digital hygiene there if you're trying to have, have an affair. But wow, man, it was a hot summer down there. One other note. I was working for CNN and breaking all kinds of news. They were going to impeach Mark Sanford. The Republicans were doing this and that. Here's a story about the affair and Maria and the cops and whatever, all this fun little tribal politics stuff in South Carolina. And then my boss calls me, I'm in the Hilton in Columbia. You and me love the Hilton. We've stayed there many. Hey, Peter, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm. I got the scoop. The House is, was putting together articles of impeachment against Mark Sanford. And he's like, okay, cool. You should stop. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? He goes, michael Jackson just died. You can come home now. And it was like, obviously the biggest story in the world was suddenly Michael Jackson. And CNN was covering that. And I was having, as a young reporter, like the time my life in Columbia, like, hit it. Going to five points every night, like I just mentioned. And then I had to go back to reality in D.C. so.
- [60:01]
A
Wow.
- [60:01]
B
Thank you for playing that. Thank you for playing.
- [60:04]
A
You're welcome. That was today, June 24, 2009. I was at the gay beach house in Rehoboth with all my besties. We had a summer beach house back then. And I made them all take a break from, I don't know, doing flip cup and watching Britney Spears music videos or whatever it was that we were doing to watch that. And I just. The whole thing. My distinct memory is like, when is he gonna get to the point? And for the purpose of the podcast, we could not play the full seven minutes. But he spends it's longest wind up in history. He is such a. Such a weird fella that Mark Sanford, but good memory for you.
- [60:43]
B
Forgot that took that long. Yeah. Thanks for. I appreciate you.
- [60:46]
A
Peter Hamby, everybody. Go check him out on his podcast, which is shorter than mine. You know, if you need a little bit of more of a get right to the point update on what's happening in the day. It's called the Powers that be. Check them out over at Puck and Hamby. Enjoy the USA World cup game tomorrow night with our friends. We'll be seeing you soon. All right, man.
- [61:06]
B
All right, buddy. Thank you.
- [61:07]
A
Everybody else will be back here tomorrow for another edition of the show. See you all then. Peace.
- [61:13]
B
What happened to that boy? What happened to that boy? What happened to that boy? He was talking. We put a clap into that boy. What happened to that boy? What happened to that boy? What happened to that boy?
- [61:30]
A
The Borg podcast is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Katie Lutz and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.