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- [00:00]
Amanda Carpenter
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Tim Miller
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Daily. I'm your host Tim Miller. We are taping the Next Level today before we're going to get primary results. So doing big picture politics over there on the next level feed, AOCs woke one reflections and maybe some hints about what's in the future for her. We'll talk about AOC and a bunch of other stuff. So go check out the Next level. And then on tomorrow's Bulwark Daily, we'll do a recap of the South Carolina primary, Lindsey Graham's sister, the craziness in Wisconsin. We'll cover all that tomorrow. But today, my former colleague always like having her back. She's now a writer and editor@ protectdemocracy.org, their substack is if you can keep it. And next week she'll be participating in a live webinar co hosted by Protect Democracy and Vox on threats facing the midterms and the structural reforms needed to renew our democracy. We'll put a link in the show notes to that with more details. And a lot of you care about that. It's obviously Amanda Carpenter. What's up, girl?
- [01:07]
Amanda Carpenter
Hey. Good to see you. Happy to be back. Hope you're having a good summer. Everything's going well, right?
- [01:12]
Tim Miller
You know, besides the world, the world's gone mad. But my summer's good. You're looking good. You're looking refreshed, you know, summer vacation, little sun kissed. We've got much to discuss today, but I think we have to start with Baby Trump hiding in a catering cart for people that missed this. John Hudson over at the Washington Post had the scoop on this. Everybody remembers the story when Trump was over in Turkey and he had his new Qatari hand me down plane, but it didn't have the air defenses. And so he had to fly back, allegedly on the old Air Force One. And he threatened to sue the New York Times over their reporting on this. Well, it turns out the New York Times was wrong, but not in the way that he said he wasn't even able to fly out on the old Air Force One. They were so concerned about the Iranians shooting down our planes that they took Trump out of the old Air Force One, hid him inside a catering cart, took him to a different plane. He flew out of Turkey on a different plane. You might remember those kinds of weird thing where all the reporters had to put the shades down on the plane when it was leaving Turkey. Maybe something related to Baby Trump hiding, but I don't know. A lot of a Lot of layers to the story. Amanda, what was your reaction?
- [02:36]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah, you are right. There's a lot of layers to the story. Number one, the idea of using the press as a decoy. But what strikes me as the most important is how badly is this war going, right? Like, Secret Service doesn't take the president off a plane for no reason. He hid in a catering cart, which is embarrassing. This isn't like Taylor Swift going underneath the stage and trying to hide from fans.
- [03:00]
Tim Miller
Or I learned from my text change yesterday, apparently she sometimes leave her house hidden in a luggage cart. That's something that she did. I received a text like, this is a Taylor Swift ass move. I don't follow all of her decoys.
- [03:12]
Amanda Carpenter
But yeah, but that's fun because she's evading fans. This is not fun because Trump, our president, is evading assassination attempts. So that seems extremely serious. And I just look at what's going on and how they downplay the deaths. The stories last week about how we don't know how many munitions we have at hand because apparently people are afraid to tell him that we are running low. You look at the attack where they tested the water sources in Minnesota and Trump tried to cover it up and somehow blame Tim Walls for attacking his own water supply, which doesn't even make sense. And so what I'm most concerned about is what is a straight story about our status with this war? I think we can all agree it's not going well. We appear to not be accomplishing the goals that they set out. The Trump sons are making billions off it in these shady contracts. But actually, what does it mean for our national defense and the safety and security of the president? It seems to be not good. If he had to go into a catering cart and hide from people and keep this information from the public for, I don't know, has it been two or three weeks?
- [04:20]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I think a little longer. Time's a flat circle in the Trump era. I think we should just kind of do our service as former Republicans, Amanda, as people who have been on Fox News before. It's been a minute, but back in the day can kind of get our head in that place. The astonishing weakness that, like, he started this war that he doesn't know how to get out of, that he doesn't have a plan to get out of and that he's not willing to kind of do what is necessary to get out of, to be honest. So he starts this war. It's a total disaster. It's a humiliating defeat. And amidst it, he has to Hide in the catering cart amidst the hot meals that they're serving on the airplane. Not a good smell in there and you know, kind of duck and sneak out of Turkey, an allied nation. Just think about the coverage of Fox, of Obama riding the bicycle the one time and how they talked about how it wasn't very manly for him to the way that he rode the bicycle. It's just like you can't even imagine the wall to wall mockery and coverage that would have been given to a Democratic president who had to like put on his diapers and hide in a catering cart to get out of a country.
- [05:34]
Amanda Carpenter
The Iranian stuffed our president in a catering cart by his own free will. He went in there willingly to hide
- [05:40]
Tim Miller
it, went into the locker himself. He was like, I don't want the bullies to stuff me in the locker so I'm just gonna go into the locker and hide by myself.
- [05:46]
Amanda Carpenter
Maybe they lured him in there with a couple Diet Cokes and a cheeseburger to sweeten the deal. But I also wonder how much did the Qatari plane of it all make this a factor? I mean we know that the plane that the President travels on is a target. That plane that he chose to fly on originally was not safe. I think there's a lot more to this story. You don't force a president off two planes now, his Qatari plane, Air Force One and stuff him in a catering cart for no reason.
- [06:17]
Tim Miller
And it definitely drew attention to it. And I mean, obviously there are other security issues with the Qatari plane that like a million people flagged before we started moving to this. I guess when we're talking about the layers, it is pretty telling that this leaked also. You know, I mean I'm happy it's that leaked and that we know the truth about what's happening. But like that also I think is should be a pretty concerning signal and that obviously they felt like this was such a serious threat they had to sneak him out in the hot dog cart. And so it's a pretty big security breach for somebody to leak it.
- [06:56]
Amanda Carpenter
How do we know that the President was more safe in the hot dog cart? You know what I mean?
- [07:02]
Tim Miller
The Secret Service, I mean Carol Lennig we've had on, have discussed, we have a lot of issues with the Secret Service. There are a lot of reasons to have concerns.
- [07:09]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah. That also doesn't seem like the most battle tested plan.
- [07:14]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I don't know. It's crazy. The whole story is crazy. The sign of deep weakness. And yeah, you alluded to it just at the front. Just like the fact that then I guess we were using his staff and Jordan is decoys as part of this. Pretty alarming.
- [07:28]
Amanda Carpenter
But the biggest point is that Iran is a bigger threat than we knew. I mean, obviously we know there's been assassination attempts not only on Trump, but John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, et cetera. I mean, when you start to put all these points together, along with the fact that Iran has terrorist cells around the world, there could be a day where we look back on this and said, oh, there's a lot of red flags.
- [07:48]
Tim Miller
I think it just shows, again, the horrible judgment of the war. I mean, look, we're managing the Iranian threat through multiple presidencies, including the Trump first presidenc. And nobody's out here saying that it's perfect or that they weren't a threat, but it's just like the scale of the threat before the war was something that we were managing. And then he starts the stupid war, thinks it's going to be easy, thinks he's going to be able to just decapitate the leaders and put in Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or whatever their fucking cockamamie plan was. And now it's like, oil tankers are getting bombed in the Strait, he's hiding in a taco truck. You know, it's like. It's bad.
- [08:29]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah. And I think it argues for the case why Congress does need to take a more assertive role. I mean, this is much different than previous presidents who have bungled wars before. We've been there, we've seen it. But this administration is different because he has screened people for loyalty and not expertise. I mean, the stories last week where Trump is saying that whether you believe him because it's hard to tell who's telling the truth, that he was misled about how many munitions we have at our disposal. You hire messengers to come in the first Trump administration, people that would give it to him straight. But you keep shooting the messengers, you run out of people who will tell you the truth. So now he has surrounded himself with people who blow smoke up his ass like Hegseth. You can go down the line. And our national security really does depend on simple ability. Can people say two plus two bombs equals four? We have four left. No, they can't. They say things are going great, we have a million. Don't worry about it. And now I do feel like we're getting ourselves into a corner or a hot dog cart.
- [09:30]
Tim Miller
Yeah. I mean, I always didn't love the hagiography of the Mattis's, of the world and John Kelly's have, I have a lot of anger towards them. But, but yeah. And it is hard to imagine Jim Mattis not like just being blunt with Trump about the, about the risks regarding our preparedness to get into something like this. And, and maybe Dan Cain did try to do that, but this is what happens when you put yes men all around you, you know. So I want to talk a little more about the corruption stuff I guess you wrote for us while I was on vacation undoing Trump's golden age of corruption. Had some ideas for that. I guess maybe one good place to start just transitioning from the last topic which you mentioned was like the suns cashing in on the military industrial complex and what is the right path forward, both as you look to oversight, assuming the Democrats take control of Congress next year, and then even further down the
- [10:26]
Amanda Carpenter
line, I think it's obvious we're seeing new forms of corruption coming out of the White House that people could not anticipate. And it largely, I mean, you can look at his financial disclosures where he has admitted outright that he made $2.2 billion as president in 2025. And if you look at the buckets of places where the corruption is unfurled, I think there's five large ones, it's no bid and shady contracts, a lot of what the Trump sons are benefiting from when it comes to defense intent contracts, cryptocurrency, the slush funds and settlements that they are attempting to set up, the foreign gifts that he's being given, which are a way for foreign countries to influence, pedal influence in all the pay for play schemes, whether that's the pardons, the lobbying business that's cropped up around that, the truth, social access that he is creating a new business around. And so when you think down, yeah. So when you think down the road about how if we did elect a new Congress or administration who was interested in accountability and putting an end to this kind of corruption or what could you do that's realistic and meaningful? Also knowing that he's going to continue to debut as a pardon power. If you look at the reporting from Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, I mean, they, when they speak in interviews, I know they spoke to you about this. They really emphasized that Donald Trump is serious at looking at mass pardons once he's on his way out of office. They've talked about the Wall Street Journal has reported him giving pardons to anyone within 250ft of the Oval Office. So I think you have to take this seriously. So how do you pursue pardon proof accountability? And that leads to a strategy of like, okay, when you look at the corruption that's happening, there's always two sides. Donald Trump can put a big for sale sign outside the White House, but all these people are lining up to get in. And so if they are using this money to engage in some kind of unlawful activity, whether that's bribery, extortion, pay to play, there are pardon proof laws on the books. It's called disgorgement, which is a gross terrible word. Just take it out of your mind. But it just means disgorgement, civil disgorgement laws. In plain English, that means we can get the money.
- [12:37]
Tim Miller
Weird enough for me to remember.
- [12:38]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah, you can. It means get the money back. If you profit from ill gotten gains, there are ways to get the money back that are pardon proof. And the standard for proving that those are ill gotten gains is not quite as high as criminality.
- [12:54]
Tim Miller
So this is kind of like when OJ Got off and Ron Goldwyn's family still got paid. Yeah, it's like we're going through the civil courts now.
- [13:02]
Amanda Carpenter
Exactly, exactly. And so there's gotta be a lot of mapping for what those ill gotten gains could be. But I think there's a lot of great reporting, especially when it comes to crypto and the pay for play elements, where I think anybody that's interested in oversight has a lot of strings to pick up and follow. And so if there was a Democratic Congress that was interested in accountability, there could be plans to audit the White House and find out where this money is going, what it is buying and who is doing it. Because you have to look at the actors on the other side of this. I know we can talk about and complain about Trump all that we can, but it takes two people to bribe or extort or corrupt the economy and our government.
- [13:45]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Two different things I want to explore there. One is auditing the White House, which we'll get back to in a second. But just so I don't forget, kind of like, what are some strategies for going after these folks even if they've imparted. And I'm intrigued by the engorgement disgorgement idea that you've put forth. The other one that I've been talking about is at least for the up and up business. Right. Like we're going to come back to crypto in a second, but for everybody else, for the up and up, for the companies that are defense contractors, for other deals pardons that Trump is doing with people that still want to have businesses in the future. There are plenty of articles for people who have been pardoned and then started new businesses and stuff. Okay, Democrats need to start calling all of those people now. Right? And that's my message to them in 2027. Like, if you did business with Jared Kushner, Donald Trump Jr. Eric Trump, etc. Witkoff Kids, Letnik kids, you know, preserve your emails and like, we're gonna be bringing you, bringing you forward, and like, maybe Trump will pardon you. Okay. You know, like, you cut this deal with the Trump administration, well, the next administration can, can come after you and like, they're gonna go after your business and like, they can. You can be pardoned personally. But, like, we're gonna investigate these deals and like, you can't pardon, you know, whatever. The Kazakhstan Mining Company. Right? Like, that's a, that is an entity that needs to follow the laws. Right. And that's kind of been my angle, and it's like a little less satisfying than imagining Jared Kushner and shackles. But, like, even still, I think that that's another way. Like, what do you make of that?
- [15:21]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah, well, I mean, the message needs to be sent. Now, if you are making money off these unlawful schemes, don't plan on keeping it because there are laws on the books to claw it back. And that not only goes like, you know, from the federal side. I mean, There are state AGs that start to take an interest in this. And then if SEC does happen to change in a new administration, the world changes again. But it's not about just, you know, punishing the Trump kids or Jared Kushner. If you are a company that is ripping off the taxpayer because you are party to fast tracking these no bid shady contracts where people are not getting the contracts based on expertise, ability to deliver for the government, then you're out. Like, you're not going to keep that money. I mean, this really is about ripping off the taxpayer because when the government gets corrupted, yes, like, all the goons make money and people get really mad about that, but the services are sure to decline for the Americans. I mean, we recognize this when it happens in other countries and we laugh at like, ooh, the Soviet Union hands out all the money to the goons and like, you know, they're, they're selling these Potemkin villages, but it is also happening here. And like, there's no better illustration than the reflecting pool, right? Like, a Trump lackey got the contract to do this egotastic pet project for Trump, didn't deliver it, ruined the reflecting pool. They smeared anyone who pointed it out, and in the end, taxpayers got ripped off. Like, how many times are we going to pay to repave or reline that pool? Probably three or four times by the time this is over.
- [16:58]
Tim Miller
Yeah. And there are just varying degrees of this, Right? Like, the reflecting pool is the most comical. Like, we talked yesterday about the wall project and the amount of money that they're spending for this stupid wall through Big Bend.
- [17:10]
Amanda Carpenter
Your interview that you did last week is the first time I'd ever heard it. Not only is it a travesty that they're going through the national parks, but the fact that they are building a road where there was no road before that will make it easier for people to traverse a pass that was previously unpassable. I mean, how stupid stupid is this?
- [17:32]
Tim Miller
Yeah. And then again, you have, like, the internment camps example of this before the vacation when I was talking with reporter on the New York from the New Yorker who was working on this story, and it's just like, look, you know, there are bigger things to be outraged about about the internment camps than the fact that, like, the contract went to somebody who doesn't know how to run them and that, like, it was, you know, a shit show in there. That's just another, like, example of what you're talking about, you know, and then that goes all the way up to kind of the legal, that insider corrupt stuff that we were talking about yesterday with, like, the military contractors where, like, they're trying to block us from, like, learning from Ukrainian innovators, you know, because Raytheon wants to keep its own contract. Like, so you, you see this all the way through. And, and I do think that the Democrats can, like, simultaneously take back, hey, you know, we're reforming things. We're doing good government things. We're doing the doge stuff they said that they were going to do. And also we're doing accountability and, and also we're calling that it's all kind of one big package that I think somebody's just gotta figure out the right way to wrap up that can resonate with people.
- [18:38]
Amanda Carpenter
Audit the White House.
- [18:40]
Tim Miller
There you go. You brought it up. Audit the White House. All right. Y' all have heard me talking about our friends at Seoul because I like their out of office. Thc sparkling beverages. It's nice. We have a little Sunday gathering with some friends and kids earlier this week. And it's, you know, on Sunday, I don't want to have a couple glasses of rose because then I'm slow for Bill Crystal on Monday. A little THC out of office beverage with Sol. It's nice. It makes the event nice and bubbly and fun. If you haven't given Sol a try, you should look into those or check out their new Mood Gummies. They're a wellness brand that makes delicious hemp derived CBD and THC products designed to make feeling good simple. Their new mood gummies have precise dosing, clean ingredients and formulations designed for predictable effects so you can choose how you want to feel while staying in control. If you're looking for a bright, social and energizing buzz, go with the uplift gummies, which are perfect for daytime plans or beating the afternoon slump when it's time to wind down. The mellow gummies are ideal for cozy nights and fully unplugging. And if you're looking for that just right anytime vibe, try Sol's Balance gummies for an easy, versatile feel. Three moods, three formulas. Same great taste, less filling. Whatever the moment, there's a soul mood gummy to match. Make today a good day and get yourself some soul gummies. Right now, Seoul is offering my audience 30% off your entire order. Go to getsoul.com and use the code the bulwark. That's getsoul.com promo code the bulwark for 30% off. Yesterday is another good example of why we need to audit the White House. Here it is. Gurren Bobby Zhou is a Chinese national, born in Shanghai, moved to the United Kingdom, started a failed flooring business, then started a failed crypto business. He was investigated for money laundering. As part of the failed crypto business, he fled the UK to the UAE. He got to the UAE in, I believe, 2024. Within a year, he had $100 million that he had invested into the Trump's family crypto. New York Times story on this. Nobody knows where the money's from. Other people did not want to work with this person because of all the red flags. Trump's family business, no issues, worked with them, took in 100 million. Who is that 100 million from? Like, it's from somebody who's getting something out of the White House.
- [20:59]
Amanda Carpenter
You know, I think another important question is what are all the people who are investing in Trump crypto buying?
- [21:07]
Tim Miller
Right.
- [21:07]
Amanda Carpenter
You know, it kind of took me a little while to get my head wrapped around this because the Democrats, you know, they, they talk about like, oh, it's, you know, another form of dark money. This is so much worse than the dark money that we have previously encountered. I mean, people think dark money in Politics is bad because donors would funnel money into, like, these opaque groups. But at least when it came to that form of dark money, all the money was sort of kept in groups and within campaigns. What the Trump crypto venture and World Liberty Financial is doing, it is essentially direct deposit into Trump family personal accounts. The money just goes straight to them. There are no caps, there are no limits. There are no controls on where the people could be from. I mean, it is an open door for foreign influence peddling. If you look at the money they made, it's all in crypto. I mean, more than $1 billion of it was in crypto alone. And this is a form of currency that has no intrinsic value. Right? So what are they buying? There's kind of this pretense. We can buy a governance token. You can vote in your shares, control all the money is made. Like, that's not true. It's controlled by the Trump family. They get 75% of the money. And so this is just.
- [22:25]
Tim Miller
There are other stupid cryptos that you could invest in with your $100 million.
- [22:28]
Amanda Carpenter
So what are they buying and what is being sold? You know, if you look back, the reporting for when the Trump sons kind of started promoting this, they did it. They went on a global tour, they went to Dubai and all these other places abroad to look for investors. And it's pretty apparent that they're saying, like, this is the Trump family coin. Invest in us. It was sort of like presented like the new Mar a Lago, but anybody can join. You don't have to go camp out in the patio and, like, rub shoulders and, you know, eat the cheesy drinks and the bad hamburgers.
- [22:59]
Tim Miller
Yeah, yeah.
- [23:00]
Amanda Carpenter
You just sent $10 million at a time. The going rate is $100 million, $75 million that just gets dumped into the Trump account. And when you look at the types of people it attracts now, the Trump sons, their sort of origin myth story is that, well, you know, after January 6th, we were debunked for political reasons. Well, we found out that wasn't quite exactly true over the last two weeks when Capital One came out and said, well, no, we did close over 300 Trump aligned accounts for money laundering. Money laundering people are the people that are attracted to crypto. I understand that there's reasons who want to escape, like, government scrutiny and all the rest, but if you look at the people who are pioneering this currency, it's people that want to hide their money from the government. And is it, like, weird that Donald Trump is now big in the crypto Business. He used to be skeptical about it. It wasn't until the Trump campaign in 2024, Joe Biden administration was cracking down on crypto. They had a SEC regulator that was pretty interested in cracking down on the crypto. And they realized, like, we can cozy up to these guys and they will dump money into our campaigns, and if we do cryptocurrency, we'll dump money into our accounts. And so that's what's happening. So you have this guy Bobby Joe, I may not be pronouncing that right. Who is flagged for money laundering. There's another Joe Czo who dumped a ton into the Trump accounts and got a pardon for his crypto crimes. There's UAE government that's dumping money into these accounts.
- [24:30]
Tim Miller
And so like Justin sun, another Chinese
- [24:34]
Amanda Carpenter
national, if you were someone who was worried about dark money in politics and Elon Musk giving Trump campaign $25 million, well, you better get real smart on World Liberty Financial.
- [24:43]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I mean, Trump took 100 million from this guy, Joe. He also took another, I think somewhere close to 500 million from Justin's son, who's also born in China. I don't know. Is the Chinese Communist Party influencing Trump? I don't know, but they sure as hell could be. They sure as hell could be. And I just like, it's kind of crazy to me that it's not like front page news. Like two Chinese nationals have put in half a billion dollars into Trump. Maybe others do they have relationships with Chinese government? Like, we don't, we don't know any, any of this. Right. And like Trump is going soft on China. And it's like, especially when you like, think about the rhetoric that had come targeting the Biden administration and from a lot of people in the Trump administration about how we need to be China hawks, it's like, okay, I don't know. It's like we know that UAE and Saudi is buying off the administration, which is bad enough. Are there behind the scenes influence campaigns happening from China. How could we know without knowing where this money is coming from? And that takes us back to auditing the White House.
- [25:44]
Amanda Carpenter
I want all these questions answered. But to prove this is wrong, I kind of feel like we don't have to like, this setup is the scandal in and of itself. The UAE dumped a ton of money into World Liberty Financial and then not so long later they got a chips deal approved. Like just that setup alone should be a reason to shut this down. I know there's some efforts from Congress through the Clarity act and The Trump administration keeps getting carves out so that we're not gonna touch the Trump family. We're not gonna do this. You thought he likes to tell people that his other businesses were successful, the golf clubs, et cetera. The money they're getting for this swamps this by two or three times. This is their bread and butter right now. And again, like, we shouldn't have to prove a federal bribery scheme every time we look at one of these deals. The fact that they have created a back door for foreign entities to just dump money into their personal accounts is scandalous enough in itself.
- [26:39]
Tim Miller
I agree with that. I just will also say, you can call me a xenophobe if you want, you can call me a neocon, but I don't think that the Chinese national should be able to bribe the President of the United States, his family, to the tune of $100 million. Don't think that should be legal or possible. And this whole, like, conversation about like, oh, the Stock act banned members of Congress from buying stocks. It's like, okay, we need to expand that out quite a bit. And there basically already are kind of laws on the books about this actually. And people, you know, roll their eyes about emoluments, etc. But it's like, I think that there's probably a way to freshen up the emolument clause to make sure in the future, no, you know, citizens from hostile foreign governments can bribe the President of the United States. That seems bad. Seems like something everybody should. Would be opposed to.
- [27:22]
Amanda Carpenter
And I do think people get sort of hung up or distracted by the fact that this seems like a new business venture for the Trump kids. Like, it's digital currency. This is something new. No, this is like the same old pay to play. Bribery, buying influence, foreign corruption schemes.
- [27:38]
Tim Miller
It is just putting their name on a coin instead of on a building. That's it.
- [27:42]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah, it's a dark direct deposit account. Like, that's all this is. Don't overcomplicate it, right?
- [27:49]
Tim Miller
Cutteries have been doing this for a long time, paying off DC figures, right? And it's like, it's like this is, this is why we have the Foreign Corrupt Practices act. Like this. We have all these laws. It's fucking crazy. Look, I'm a little lax on the privacy front, a little more than I should be. It's just not in my nature. I don't know why really. It should be. Genetically. My grandfather was like the guy that will lock, have put three locks on the door even when he's just taking out the trash. This was never me. But these days, given my public Persona and also everything I've been reading about AI and the increase of threat from scammers, hackers, stalkers, and more thanks to AI, I want to make sure my family's protected. I'm sure you do too. So if you've been thinking about this, here's what you should do. Go to www.joindeleteme.com bulwark and enter code bulwark. You'll get 20% off DeleteMe. Delete Me removes your personal information that's being sold online. In the age of AI, we're all especially vulnerable to scammers using your personal data that's floating around on the Internet against you. Have you ever googled yourself and found your home address or other things you wouldn't want people to see? The good news is DeleteMe can help take care of that. They do all the hard work to wipe your personal information from the data broker websites. Super easy to use. You guys know I don't like paperwork. I did it. I signed up. It was quick. My friend who was with us on vacation a couple weeks ago, apropos at nothing. Not because he's a pod listener. He should be. I don't know why he isn't, but we're just, whatever, talking about various things at dinner and he brought up how much he loves Delete Me. He's using it, so there you go. Nobody's even paying him to say that. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your delete me plan. You go to JoinDeleteMe.com bulwark and use promo code Bulwark at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to www.joindeleteme.com bulwark and enter code bulwark at checkout. That's www.joindeleteme dot com bulwark. Code bulwark. Let's do some other protect democracy, democracy world stuff. Where are you at on the midterms? I sometimes feel like I don't have the alarm bells up on this as high as I should. What's your sense of the state of play?
- [30:04]
Amanda Carpenter
Well, I think I can kind of do some good news, bad news that we sort of always expected. When I look at the landscape now, we're always looking at things like a year ago. I do think the fact that the Trump administration has not been successful passing the SAVE act and then Also is losing their shirt in court when it comes to these data grabs that they wanted to get from the states. This was very central to their election rigging dreams takeover to have some kind of federal database that they can control to disqualify voters or invent these fantasies about voter fraud that they could hunt down and then also use to disqualify voters, because that's always the end game, right? To throw out the votes that we don't like or find votes that we need. And the Trump administration, the Department of Justice issued multiple states, they've lost 21 cases where they've tried to get these because it's just so egregious what they're trying to do. And most judges, even lots of Trump appointed judges, even in places ruling on cases like West Virginia, say, of course you can't have this data and the Constitution is extremely clear, you don't have a right to do election administration. There's some kind of oversight things you can do. But the idea of creating a national federal database is not going to happen. And they don't have enough time to do it. Now, they still may try, they may still try to get some cyber ninjas in there to do something crazy, but I think they are on their heels about this. That said, Trump, if you look at the way he's setting up his speeches, is saying that because Congress has failed to pass the SAVE act, there's going to be fraud. And so he's kind of using that to lay the kind of election rigging lies that we always knew was coming. Because he only has three plays, like he's going to deceive voters with lies about the election to try to disrupt the process and deny results he doesn't like. You can pick whatever narrative, whatever lie he wants to come up with. We know that is the playbook. And so this doesn't mean that he's not going to try. This is unlike the previous election because he has the entire federal government at his disposal and lots of lefties like Todd Blanche in place who are starting to do his bidding. So our eyes are definitely wide open about this. But I do think people are in a very good defense posture. Their eyes are wide open about what he's capable of. And the good news really is that if Donald Trump tried to steal an election or disrupt the midterms, he needs a lot of accomplices. And he wrecked a lot of people after the 2020 election who went along with his schemes. There's still going to people that going to be people that do It, But I do think he's on his heels in evidence of this. I don't know if you caught the speech that he did. Was it two or three weeks ago? Oh, I'm gonna talk about the fraud in the election and lay out my evidence. And it was just like this. Landed without nothing. So I think that's a pretty good sign.
- [32:52]
Tim Miller
What about are the things that need to be done? Are there kind of action items that you're thinking about that protect democracy at this point?
- [33:01]
Amanda Carpenter
Make sure to get your vote in early and don't wait to the last minute. I mean, we talk to election officials, people involved in working with the states. Like that is like their biggest focus right now. Get the votes in early, early, early, early. Because if there is going to be disruption in the voting process, it could probably come unlike election day or where there's officials trying to freeze things and disrupt the chain of custody. So just get, get everything in early. That's, that's the number one guidance. But of course, we're looking at everything. The fact that Wisconsin might elect election denier to the governorship, like, there's always going to be these kind of threats.
- [33:38]
Tim Miller
Let's talk about Wisconsin. And that won't be a threat for the midterms. But so we have the primaries tonight. It is looking like the Democrats are gonna nominate Francesca Hong, which we can talk about. And Republicans nominating Tom Tiffany, who was one of the big supporters of Trump's Stop the Steal effort. Not the biggest election denier that they've nominated. I guess that award would probably go to Arizona's Andy Biggs, who was like, speaking at the Capitol on January 6th and before the insurrection and was part of one of the plotters alongside a lot of the people that were on the ground that day trying to disrupt the election. So that's Andy Biggs in Arizona, Mike Collins, Georgia also. So the election deniers everywhere, I think that the focus is on Wisconsin because it feels like the place where the Republicans are most likely to be able to win. Tiffany is like, just a little less visibly crazy about it, like, if that makes sense. Like his participation was crazy. But you can understand how people might like, talk their way around it. Like he was, he signed the letters, he voted, but he wasn't quite as, like, out there as some of these other guys. And then Hong is just such a risky bet for the Democrats to nominate in this swing state. And for me, it's like, not even so much about her ideology, though that's part of it as just like, personal craziness. I just think that's a risky bet to have a state like Wisconsin potentially have an election denier in there. What's your thoughts on that?
- [35:06]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah, I haven't gone deep on Hong, mostly because all the discourse out there is like, I can't focus on this right now. Like, that's gonna. Well, we'll see what the Democrats do. We'll see how this lines up, and then. And then we'll go from there. But, yeah, it is. It is tough right now. It's like, we've gone through so much with the election denialism, the authoritarianism, to not have sure bets when you have a general election matchup. I mean, it's really. It's tough. And so it's not my place to, like, give advice or see where there's green shoots. But, you know, maybe. Maybe they can get right. I do see a lot of progressive candidates who I think are getting on the right side of things, like data centers, things like surveillance. So maybe there's different ways this could shake out. But when it comes to the prospect of electing an election denier in a prominent spot when it comes to 2028, not great. And so there is some good news, because after the 2020 disaster, Congress did pass the Electoral Count Reform act, which does streamline things and make it harder for states to overturn an election. A number of states also reinforce those laws on their books, and Wisconsin was one of them. Like, it just, like, lays out certification deadlines, makes it very clear that the vice president does not have any role in changing the votes. And so there are laws on the books that are stronger than 2020 that would make it harder for a governor election denier to do what they did previously or go further than many did. But it's not great. But again, the best thing you can do if you're worried. I mean, talk about the stakes of the election now, but also you gotta be communicating with all the state clerks and all the people below the governor if you are in that situation, because there are so many checks along the way to keep elections safe and secure. They can work, but they just have to be utilized.
- [37:04]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Well, I'm gonna have more extended thoughts on Tong over on the Next level feed if people want to check that out. But I just. To me, it's like, kind of an unbelievable risk to take. And it's like after what we had lived through in 2020, and we'll see how kind of the election turns out tonight. But let's just say briefly. So what I was saying is, if you're saying, hey, 20 years ago, I did some stupid tweets. I mean, 10 years ago I was a Republican. I have sympathy for people who change their mind about things, but when it's like, three years ago, I was doing insane tweets about abolishing prisons, and six months ago, I was doing rooming. Should not be illegal. It's a big risk. What's happening in Wisconsin, the other side of that coin, Trump, yesterday in the White House and Oval Office, is kind of, really, kind of leaning in on the communism and socialism thing on the left.
- [37:58]
Amanda Carpenter
They're kind of teeing it up for him.
- [38:00]
Tim Miller
They are teeing it up for him. And so, in a continued effort to help the Democrats help themselves, I've been offering some counters to that that might be useful. I'm wondering, Amanda, if you have any thoughts putting on your former communications hat? I mean, we did. We are now part owner of 30 companies. The Trump administration has made those investments.
- [38:24]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah, no, the Cato Institute put it together. An amazing analysis, I think maybe last week, just tallying up all the golden shares that Donald Trump has taken of various companies for the government, which is also another way that he opens up people and corporations to try to curry favor and buy influence. I mean, if he's saying, essentially, I'm going to set the terms of how the government is going to take a stake in your company, that not only makes the company suck up to him, but it opens up like a lot of betting in other ways that people around him make lots of money, which we've seen, too. So it's bad on all levels. That said, I can't get my head around what we see Trump doing there is bad. Like, we can recognize it as socialist communists. I see a lot of people in my feed say, well, then this isn't socialist. That's. That's fascist. I'm like, okay, whatever is you want to call it, I don't like it, and it's bad. But maybe you can help me, like, just work through my thinking of it. I see some Democrats like aoc, maybe not her, but I feel like this is the vibe she's getting. It's like, we're not socialist, we're democratic socialists, and that's better. And we think voters will draw that distinction. Maybe you can explain that to me, because I'm not quite sure how to parse out.
- [39:37]
Tim Miller
It is tough now. We get really into academic stuff. Right. And like, if what they're trying to
- [39:40]
Amanda Carpenter
say is this, like, woke one, because I didn't understand woke one Either. I don't even know what that means.
- [39:45]
Tim Miller
The simple way I try to say it is, it's like if you're trying to say that America should be more like Sweden and they're trying to make America more like Hungary and Russia, okay, like, that's great. Like, that's simple. I think people understand it that, like, you're arguing that we want a greater social safety net, ensuring, you know, people can have parental leave when they're sick or when they have children and, you know, the kinds of protections that people have in Europe that they don't have here. And these other guys, they're like the bad kind of corrupt Eastern European socialists that want to have masked thugs in the streets.
- [40:18]
Amanda Carpenter
When do we get to the starting gulags? Yeah, okay, Okay, I got you. I thought.
- [40:21]
Tim Miller
I'm just trying to help. That's how I think they're trying to define it. They're not sometimes that great at saying that. And I do think, I guess is my point. I do think that, like embracing the socialist label, I do think that they're limiting some of the potential attacks on Trump. Right. And I do. And I think that also, just if we're going to do this, as an aside, it's like, I understand the Democrats arguments saying, hey, we got to try something new in 2028, because we tried the establishment way and it didn't work. I agree with that. Like, Trump won twice. Time to start something new. You don't really need to try anything new in the Wisconsin and Michigan governors races. Normal Democrats keep winning there. I don't understand. Things in Wisconsin are going pretty well. Like, in the grand scheme of things, everyone in Minnesota and Wisconsin and Michigan who calls it. Anytime I make fun of them on the show, they're always like, things are great here. We're great. And it's like, okay, well, then why are we trying a crazy thing now when things are. We're on the right track anyway, that's just me. But I do think that making the case that what Trump is doing is not capitalism, it's not America, it's not free market. It is something different and dark and scary. And we've seen it in other places around the world. And there's some, obviously some socialist aspects to it taking over companies, there's some communist aspects to it with the disappearances we're doing of people, there's fascist elements to it. And we're not going to take critiques about our desire for a greater social safety net from a bunch of people that are doing foreign gulags that's just me.
- [41:52]
Amanda Carpenter
I think that sounds good. I am also open to new ideas, but I just feel like I have an obligation to say. I just. Maybe I'm dumb. Don't ask me to parse. Socialist, communist, fascist. I just want American, please. I want to go USA law and order. You know, people can get jobs and contracts based on merit and expertise and who deserves it? Like, I just want fairness. Can we just do something with that?
- [42:21]
Tim Miller
I don't know if we can have that. I don't know if that's going to happen for you.
- [42:25]
Amanda Carpenter
I can dream.
- [42:26]
Tim Miller
You can dream. Speaking of things that are un American, how about that for a transition? I wanted to also get your take on this. The National Guard deployment has been extended in Washington. You're outside of Washington, you go into town, you're in the outskirts there in America and West Virginia been extended in D.C. through the end of the term. So 4,600 troops from 23 states. Among the different contracts is one $300 million contract for building apartment style lodging units for the troops. We're building more barracks in Washington for the National Guard that is there to do military theater. Because Donald Trump wants to be a caudillo. Basically.
- [43:10]
Amanda Carpenter
Yeah. Welcome to Washington D.C. every monument and Trump themed thing is dipped in gold. There's troops on every corner strolling around the monuments and yeah, that is really the reality of it. And you know, we've been warning against this and saying he is deploying the troops for political purposes. He likes the idea of having these toy soldiers going around the city to keep it clean or just go on on a mission that he deems worthy, such as patrolling the reflecting pool to make sure that people don't lift pieces of it that are floating off because of his dumbass Renault job. Right. Like that's what's happening. And the fact that they are now becoming a permanent fixture where they have permanent housing. That's pretty much what this is. They're going to be here for the long term. What are they staying for? And I don't know if you saw this, but earlier this week, what was the image he posted on Truth Social about the White House, about the drone port where he essentially wants to make the top into sort of this drone port where he can launch drones off it to go do what? I don't know. But you couple that with the fact that he is building the bunker, nobody seems to be stopping him. To me, it looks like he's building the White House into a military base. Why? Why? Is it because he doesn't plan on leaving. Is it because he plans on taking action that he knows may be unpopular? He's scared of protests. I don't know the reason, but the White House is not supposed to be a military base. And he always starts these things off by joking around about it. But if you look at how D.C. has changed, it's not a joke.
- [44:57]
Tim Miller
No, it's alarming. And it ties something I was talking with Bill about yesterday, where he's like, why isn't Hegseth been pushed out? And it's like, you start to put all of these dots together, and it's like, well, we have this National Guard deployment now through the end of Trump's term for no clear reason. We're turning the White House into a military base. We want to stooge the FBI and the DoD, no matter how incompetent they are. It's alarming, for sure. This is just kind of tangential, but I wanted an excuse to talk about it briefly, since you're talking about the drone port on the top of the White House. There's another story yesterday, speaking of ports on the top of things, this Ken Paxton, cool guy. Yeah, yeah. He made six to seven figures on a cellular tower company that he was invested in. This was kind of interesting. People like, huh, why was the Attorney in General investing a cell tower company? What was the cell tower? It turns out they put a cell tower on top of a hospital where he is on the board. So he's on the board of a hospital, they put a cell tower on top of the hospital, and then he cashes in on it personally.
- [46:05]
Amanda Carpenter
That seems weird.
- [46:06]
Tim Miller
I would think so. Like, you would. You would think that if the hospital. I don't know. You know, in a normal country, you would think that if a hospital decided it needed a little side income, a side hustle, you would think that the money would go back to the patients or the doctors or the nurses or the equipment in the hospital to try to make the services better for people. Not that the hospital would have a side hustle that would put a little walking around money in the Attorney General's pocket.
- [46:33]
Amanda Carpenter
No, that's a good point. I did see that story, and I was like, huh, that's kind of a strange hustle. And to me, it was just kind of like, oh, well, that's government property that people in charge of the government found a way to take advantage of and make money off of. So that was my takeaway without reading too deeply into it, just because it was weird. But you're right. The Fact that somebody's making money off the rooftop of a hospital and not using it for charity is pretty rock hospital. So, yeah, gay Ken Paxton. I'm sure he'll point somebody to look into that.
- [47:01]
Tim Miller
Bad Ken Paxton. Should we close with the illicit cattle?
- [47:05]
Amanda Carpenter
I don't know about the illicit cattle. Is it like, exotic hamburgers?
- [47:09]
Tim Miller
I was thrilled about this. You know, my favorite cabinet member is Brooke Rollins. I don't feel like anybody really talks about. Yeah, I don't think anybody talks about Brooke. Yeah, only on this show, I think is probably where you see her. Or if you read in the ag News, you see a lot of Brooke Rollins. But I think most people don't talk about her because, like, you know, on the scale of offenses, you know, you've got RFK changing the vaccine protocol this week. You know, you've got Pete Hegseth botching the war on Iran. You've got Todd Blanche totally corrupting the DOJ and doing this weird walk in yesterday after he got confirmed where it was like only white people were clapping for him. It looked like 1961 Ole Miss as he walked into the Department of Justice, which is a little alarming about what kind of justice is gonna be meted out. So anyway, you've got all these horrible cat officials, and so Brooke kind of slides under the surface. And so I like to keep an eye on her from time to time. She was in Texas talking about the wall, the aforementioned wall that we're continuing to build, and she took an ag angle on why the wall was needed, and I want to share that with you. Is that happening on this part of the border?
- [48:27]
Amanda Carpenter
That.
- [48:27]
Tim Miller
That is one thing that we have been tracking very closely is that illicit cattle. To date, we don't know of one case that has crossed the border into America. We just know that it is a real possibility. We're monitoring the cartels bringing in cattle. Hasn't happened yet. But the cartel cattle issue in Big Bend is the big thing to be concerned about.
- [48:50]
Amanda Carpenter
Which way is it a problem with the illicit cattle go?
- [48:54]
Tim Miller
I think they're worried about the Mexican cattle coming here. I really don't know why. I asked my husband this morning, who has, you know, had some cattle when he was growing up on the farm, and I was like, what is the concern? And I guess maybe the Mexican cattle could have a screw worm or something.
- [49:08]
Amanda Carpenter
Oh, my God. No, she is. Here's my take. She's so desperate to get in on, like, the Kristi Noem vacuum, where somebody can go down to the border and wear the Cool sunglasses and be there. It's like, what's my angle as the Agriculture Secretary? It's like, okay, so we know drug trafficking is bad. We know human trafficking is bad. I got cattle. I got cattle.
- [49:31]
Tim Miller
They're hiding fentanyl in the cow's udders. Okay? You don't even know it. And then they get here and they're milking the cow, and it's fentanyl milk.
- [49:39]
Amanda Carpenter
I'm glad you're right.
- [49:40]
Tim Miller
And it's getting to our children, and it's a big problem.
- [49:43]
Amanda Carpenter
Huge.
- [49:44]
Tim Miller
Yeah, she's a disaster. It's just a disaster all around over there. I don't know what else to do.
- [49:51]
Amanda Carpenter
You know? It's too bad she can't ride a horse. That's really the problem here. Maybe she can ride a cow.
- [49:57]
Tim Miller
Amanda Carpenter. Any life stories? Anything? Any lessons from West Virginia? Nothing.
- [50:03]
Amanda Carpenter
We'll see. The kids and I, we've been having. Or the family. I'm not leaving my husband out. We took. I usually don't like theme parks. I got talked into going to Epic Universal, and I have so far avoided all the Harry Potter stuff to date because I'm like, I don't like fantasy. It's actually pretty good. And so I've been watching the movies, like, when I'm doing laundry or whatever, and I got to the end of it, I thought the twist was good. I really thought the Snape character was well done. And so I kind of got into it for, like, four days.
- [50:34]
Tim Miller
All American mom at Universal usa, waving the flag, doesn't want fascism or communism. It's Amanda Carpenter. We appreciate her very much. We're gonna get dorky tomorrow on Politics, so look forward to seeing you all then. Amanda, see you soon. Love to the fam. Bye, everybody. Peace. I've seen rattlesnakes behind every door
- [51:03]
Amanda Carpenter
I've
- [51:04]
Tim Miller
been around this world and now everything's a bore. I don't know that much, but I know about keeping score. And if there's one thing I know for sure, it'll be a long boat in hell when I take you back. The Bulwark Daily is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Dante DeCicco and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.