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- [00:00]
Tim Miller
We spend hours deciding what to buy, but there's a split second decision that
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Jane Coaston
can make or break a sale. Do you have the trust to hit buy now?
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Tim Miller
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Jane Coaston
business, visit PayPalOpen.com purchase and seller protections on eligible transactions. Only terms apply.
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Tim Miller
See paypal.com risk management for details. As cat parents, Ryder and I know
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Jane Coaston
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Tim Miller
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Jane Coaston
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Tim Miller
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Jane Coaston
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Tim Miller
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Jane Coaston
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Tim Miller
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Jane Coaston
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- [01:45]
Tim Miller
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. I am delighted, but not as delighted as you. The audience is welcome back to the show host of Crooked Media's what a Day podcast, which is now daily coming for me. But it's shorter. It's shorter. Okay, you can do both. And she's also, as I mentioned yesterday, you people like her so much. She's the current record holder for most audio downloads of a single podcast. And I think it's just because people wanted her Melania take so bad. It's Jane Coston. Hello.
- [02:13]
Jane Coaston
It's good to see you, Tim.
- [02:14]
Tim Miller
Jane. High bar for you to clear.
- [02:16]
Jane Coaston
I know, I know. Regrettably, we don't have Melania Trump explaining how we should have just read her book, but no one read her book. I'm so sorry. I still haven't.
- [02:26]
Tim Miller
I should have pulled a clip just for fun. We should have just done a flashback. I had nothing to do with Epstein,
- [02:33]
Jane Coaston
how I met my husband, which I detailed in my book. And I'm like, no, we didn't read it.
- [02:39]
Tim Miller
I did not do sex trafficking with Jeffrey Epstein. Okay. Anyway, we've got a Grab bag of fun Tim and Jane Topics at the end we are going to have to talk about chud Catholic convert JD in the middle at the beginning we have to start with some angry news. Is that okay? Can we do mad stuff first?
- [02:59]
Jane Coaston
I think yeah, I think that makes sense because I mean there's a lot of angry news before we get into how Usha Vance didn't have any issues growing up and she doesn't really get what JD's ordeal is. But that's neither here nor there.
- [03:13]
Tim Miller
We'll get back to ush. I feel like I can call it that we're kind of on that sort of nickname level. And I'm trying to say which thing I'm more upset about this morning. I think the thing I'm most upset about is the Supreme Court ruling on the temporary protected status for the Haitians. We're going to do legal nerdery next week when we get all of the Supreme Court rulings in. And so I don't know that we need to go through the ruling of the fine tuned comb. But in short, what the practical effect is is that over 300,000 Haitians who fled horrific conditions in their country and are in America under legal stat have now been made illegal by the Supreme Court because of some Calvin Ball style decision and now they're subject to Mark Wayne Mullen and Stephen Miller and their goons and who knows what's gonna happen. So I've got some rage on this. I'm wondering what your reaction is.
- [04:07]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, I mean there are a couple things about this because it's not just folks from Haiti, it's folks from Syria, it's folks who are here on temporary protective status. And there's a spirit split screen which a couple of people have been sharing I did as well, which is Samuel Alito saying like Trump's comments, you know, you can say anything about someone's country, you can just like dislike people's country. Like whatever, it's fine. Like so it's not racist. And then you have, if I remember correctly, you have in her dissent, Elena Kagan being like here is all of the things Trump said about Haitians and talking about how they're bringing aids, how they live in a shithole country, how they're just terrible people, how, you know, we should be able to get more people from Norway and Sweden. And it was interesting how Samuel Alito's whole thing was doesn't look like anything to me. And this is someone who once decried the Sopranos for promoting anti Italian racism. So like there's this weird, like, it's interesting because I just keep thinking about how, like, the Supreme Court, the conservative justices on the Supreme Court can see racism if it impacts them directly. Everybody else, they're like, oh, what? Who? Like, it's like if horse blinders worked like this. And it's telling because I just keep thinking of moments in which people on the right have decried anti white racism or what they believe to be anti white racism, which really just makes it so clear that there is a swath of, of the American right that knows what racism is, but can only identify it if it is happening to them.
- [05:46]
Tim Miller
Or I think maybe in the case of anti Semitism, for example, like on Fox, they're like, very keyed in on any signs of antisemitism if it comes from a DSA leftist.
- [05:57]
Jane Coaston
Right, Right. But it just, again, you go like, you know, anti Semitism on the right. They're like, who?
- [06:04]
Tim Miller
What?
- [06:05]
Jane Coaston
I don't know what you're talking about. I got nothing. And I'm like, yeah, your hands are in front of your face and your eyes are closed and you've just been going la, la, la, la, la. For the last several years. Or you've been saying like, oh, it's okay. Because I'll never forget the conservative commentator Ben Shapiro basically saying, like, Ann Coulter may be anti Semitic, but she likes Israel. So it's cool. Don't worry about it. No need to worry about that. It's totally fine. Also, you can say whatever you want about a liberal jewel. That's fine. But conservative juke, no, not allowed.
- [06:38]
Tim Miller
Here's the thing, and like I said, I'll get more into the court stuff next week, but this is what people voted for and this is what we were gonna get when Donald Trump came back in. And it's a heinous, disgusting, un American, like, fundamentally un American policy. But I mean, it's what they campaigned on. They did not hide the ball. I mean, they campaigned on these people being kicked out of the country. They made lies about them.
- [07:06]
Jane Coaston
They wanted to pay a bounty. You know, Christopher Rufo offered a bounty for proof that Haitian immigrants eat cats and or dogs. This was a thing that actually happened.
- [07:19]
Tim Miller
Did he ever get that? Did he pay out the bounty?
- [07:22]
Jane Coaston
Unclear, I'm guessing no. I will also note that there's very specific groups that apparently were very mad about animal cruelty. And that group is. Does not include white people who apparently can do animal cruelty all day long. There's kind of this overarching thing I have where it's like, oh, you know, you had on CNN last night somebody ranting about a Haitian immigrant who, you know, hit and killed a child in a truck or something like that. And basically just.
- [07:50]
Tim Miller
I remember the story.
- [07:51]
Jane Coaston
Yeah. Which I mean, one, the parents of the child went to a city council meeting, if I remember correctly, and begged people to not use their child's name as a political country. But also, it's so obvious, this idea of like, one person did something that was terrible and horrible and awful and evil, and that's just one person did something. And then it's like, obviously this is endemic across this entire large community, which is just like such obvious bog standard evil racism. That's just that, that's just how that is. Like, there's a temptation to want to do a tit for tat of just being like, look, like, clearly we don't care, you know, we don't care about criminality coming from any other group or any other number of people. But to your point, this is what they campaigned on. This is what they said they would do. And there really is something about, like, there are people who can say in some ways that the Trump administration, you know, this isn't what I voted for. I didn't vote to go to war in Iran. I didn't vote for him to be obsessed with the fucking reflecting pool. I didn't vot for him to be obsessed with, I don't know, arches and ballrooms and be like, you know, like, if, like whatever the actual stereotype of Marie Antoinette, who, side note, seems like she was a fine person, it's fine. We can get into that as another conversation. But, you know, actual Marie Antoinette, fine. But like this, you knew, you knew the whole time you wanted it to be the economy of 2019, and you said, this is also fine.
- [09:24]
Tim Miller
This is fine. We're gonna send these Haitian kids that are just trying to live a life in our countries, are going to school, people that are working in the factories, and you have all these, all these anecdotes and you shouldn't even have to say them of people that are going to work.
- [09:37]
Jane Coaston
And also people who have been here for like 16 years at this point, since the 2010 earthquake.
- [09:43]
Tim Miller
I'm gonna send them back to what?
- [09:44]
Jane Coaston
Well, also, like, the idea that this is somehow a good thing for us. Like, it doesn't do anything good for us. It doesn't add anything to remove people from this country. It just doesn't. Like, like this, like, it doesn't. It doesn't add anything. It detracts from us and it detracts from who we are, who I want us to be, more accurately, because this is actually who we are right now.
- [10:11]
Tim Miller
I have to give you a counterpoint, Gene. Megyn Kelly, who's usually right around us in the podcast rankings. So people are listening to that show. She had a different take than you on the Haitian.
- [10:23]
Jane Coaston
Of course she did.
- [10:24]
Tim Miller
Immigrants. And I'd like to play that for you.
- [10:27]
Jane Coaston
Look, this has been going on for over a dozen years. Go home. Get out. We know our country's better than yours. That's because we filled it with our work ethic and our culture and our values. You being here only dilutes it for us, those who built it and live it. And half of you people, more than half, you won't assimilate. We don't want you. We don't care if you're offended. Get out.
- [10:51]
Tim Miller
Go home.
- [10:52]
Jane Coaston
Go back to fucking Haiti. Sorry, I'm just. I'm thinking about our friends in Ohio who've been dealing with these TPS Haitians
- [10:59]
Tim Miller
for years now who are drunk driving
- [11:01]
Jane Coaston
all over their towns and killing people. This is the whole cats and dogs thing. Like, they don't want to live like Americans live. You know how Americans stand athwart drunk driving. That is something. Americans don't drunk drive. That's why there hasn't been a years long campaign to get people to stop drunk driving. And there isn't a little device that sometimes court officers will put in your car that you have to blow into before you can start your car. Because Americans don't drunk drive. Like what she's doing there, this is kind of a wider thing is she is vice signaling. This is like, yeah, fuck you. I hate everybody. I'm a terrible. And I'm gonna perform that because, oh, I'm just standing up for our friends in Ohio, like. Cause you know, Megyn Kelly, who is a extraordinarily wealthy woman, who has been an extraordinarily wealthy woman for a very long time, is also got her ear to the ground in Springfield, Ohio, because I am sure that she is spending a lot of time just with everyday folks in Springfield, Ohio. And I'm sure she's not just getting emails from people who are already mad about it, who are also listeners of the Megyn Kelly Show. You know, she's getting like real deal contextual information from the good people of Springfield, Ohio. This is a woman who once complained about a trans woman appearing on Kim Petras pop star appearing in Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue because she was upset because what if her sons wanted to masturbate to the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue and they saw Kim Petras and they couldn't do it. Wouldn't that be sad, Tim? Wouldn't that be so sad? It would be very sad.
- [12:51]
Tim Miller
I thought you're kind of nice to Megyn Kelly there. Because what Megyn Kelly is doing is she's being a rancid bitch. That's what she's doing. I'm sorry. Like, that is all she's doing. She's like, you can call it vice signaling. That's just like the Winnie the Pooh and the tuxedo version of what she's doing. But she's being a rancid bitch. And she.
- [13:10]
Jane Coaston
This notion, it's a performance for a moment that is like, this is what we want. Like, this is what we want to hear from you. We want to hear from you yelling at Mark Levin about his micropenis God knows what. And it will benefit you financially to do this. If it didn't, she wouldn't be doing it. And you recall, I mean, the thing with Megyn Kelly specifically is that we have evidence of all of this because do you remember when she was working for NBC?
- [13:37]
Tim Miller
Yeah. It was a totally different character. She was playing a totally different character.
- [13:39]
Jane Coaston
Totally different.
- [13:40]
Tim Miller
She was like loving trans children. Very good having them on the show. Yeah. This is like the soft morning mom after school drop off.
- [13:48]
Jane Coaston
Yeah. Lots of clapping.
- [13:51]
Tim Miller
Clapping. She did the wine dancing. But she is perpetrating a lie that is underscoring the tragedy that's happening to these people that are being sent back to Haiti for no reason, or they're being menaced by our government for no reason. Either we're in the country, working hard, going to church, raising their families. Like, that's what was happening about most of the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio. And like, this idea, I'm going to. Can I steal a line from Barack Obama? The idea that, like, there's this great American culture and it's like, we built this. It's like, Megyn Kelly, you didn't build shit. Like, she has not built any lasting cultural touchstone. She's added nothing to the culture. All she's trying to do is rip the country apart, undermine what made America special. Like the idea that Haitians haven't contributed anything to American culture. As a New Orleans resident, I do have to object to this notion because New Orleans is Alabama without Haitians. That's what New Orleans is like. The Creole culture is New Orleans. And that, I think, has enriched the country quite a bit. It's added A lot of, you know, a lot of spice to the gumbo. You know, there have been a lot of great Haitians. Bascot. Blake Griffin. You know, there was the Pierre Toussaint she might be familiar with. She lives in New York. She pretends to be a person, a Catholic founder of Catholic Charities. It's just like this fucking idea that it's like, oh, we did that. We did that. She hasn't done anything. She's. You sit in your basement, in your. In your mansion, and you. And you yell at people for money.
- [15:29]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, no, there's something, you know, a concept that I find. I mean, it's, you know, you see it across different groups, but it's kind of like a stolen valor thing. And this is stolen white people valor?
- [15:40]
Tim Miller
Yes, correct.
- [15:40]
Jane Coaston
It's like, you know, my ancestors, I'm like, did they.
- [15:43]
Tim Miller
Maybe they did. I don't know who your great grandma is. She probably contributed more than Megyn Kelly has to the culture.
- [15:48]
Jane Coaston
But I don't know, you see this with kind of like, you know, like, you get stolen penis valor, where it's like, men are like, oh, we are all universally stronger than every woman. And I'm like, sir, I've watched, you know, I've seen you get bested by a large bag of rice at Costco. So, like, let's just, you know, let's simmer down a little bit on this one. But, yeah, no, it's awful, but it's awful, and it's garbage. And it's what we're doing right now, and it's what we're performing again to the world. And, you know, I mentioned this on my show yesterday that, like, we have this simultaneous, like, people are here for the World cup, and everybody's having a great time, and people are, like, getting along and doing stuff.
- [16:24]
Tim Miller
And this is in conservative media, too. For people who don't consume conservative media, like, this is like a big shtick for them right now. It's like. It's a segment on every show to
- [16:33]
Jane Coaston
that point, including fans of Haiti's national soccer team, which they've not been able to play at home in years. And you have Haitian Americans who are here supporting their team. They are. You know, they're celebrating. They, you know, they're having dance offs with Scottish fans. Like, it's great. And it's like, that is. And yet you have conservative media being like, yeah, everybody loves us. It's so great. But, like, you gotta get the fuck out of here. It's a fascinating duality.
- [17:03]
Tim Miller
It is our mutual friend Larry Haitian descent. Was that one of those games? I think he's brought more to the culture than Megyn Kelly.
- [17:10]
Jane Coaston
100%.
- [17:14]
Tim Miller
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- [19:00]
Jane Coaston
It's also like the way that they are being portrayed in media, which is, again, yeah, it's all, you know, it's outrageous. And especially because like one, it's led to some of the most irritating people on earth gloating about it. But also the degree to which. So what we're talking about.
- [19:16]
Tim Miller
Yeah, let me. Can I just get the breakdown?
- [19:18]
Jane Coaston
We're actually talking about before we.
- [19:20]
Tim Miller
Sorry, yeah, our fucking dander is up. Okay, listeners, sorry. Sometimes our dander gets up before we tell you what we're talking about. 4th of July last year, protesters went to the Prairie Land Ice facility in Texas for protest. It was disruptive. They were shooting fireworks. They were doing graffiti. They slashed some tires on the government van. You should not do that. They were asked to disperse. Many of them did not comply. A federal agent arrived, pulled out a gun. One of the protesters who had taken a rifle to the protest. Second Amendment, Hell, yeah. Shot and wounded, but didn't kill the officer that pulled the gun. You should not do that. The government prosecuted then 22 protesters, not
- [20:02]
Jane Coaston
just the one, including people who were not there. That's something that's important here. People who were not present for this event.
- [20:10]
Tim Miller
Nine of the protesters were prosecuted under this material support for terrorism executive order that Trump signed last year, which is going after.
- [20:22]
Jane Coaston
Which has gotten very undercovered. The reporter Ken Klippenstein has been all over this. But, yeah, it's gotten very undercovered. But yet.
- [20:31]
Tim Miller
So they're getting hit with these terrorism charges. So these nine people, their sentences range from 30 to 100 years. 30 to 100. Many of the listeners got mad at me for what they considered one of my worst takes besides the decoration of the Oval Office, which was that I thought that the Qanon Shaman sentence was too harsh. He got like three years. Okay, these people got 30 to 100 years for antifa terrorism. The government alleged that eight of the convicted protesters belonged to North Texas antifa. In the case of one of the couple the government relied on as evidence they owned a printing press. Story from, like, the Weather Underground used to print Anarchy zines. Yes, Anarchy zines. One of the defendants. This is the guy you mentioned. And then I'll let you go. One of the defendants, which you just mentioned, Daniel. He goes by Des Sanchez. Estrada didn't even attend the protest, as you mentioned. His wife did. She called him from jail. After the arrest, the government recorded the call. Soon after, he was stopped by police. He was moving a box of these zines from his home. Many of the illustrations, there were stickers. You know, they had tattoo flash sheets. They're entered into the prosecution's exhibit files. And like, now this guy has been convicted of terrorism for the zines.
- [21:53]
Jane Coaston
Again, one zines. It's like extremely. Like 1993, which. Okay, that's fine. Again, this person was prosecuted for moving a box of anarchist zines.
- [22:07]
Tim Miller
Now, I. I mean, I can't laugh. You want to laugh?
- [22:09]
Jane Coaston
No, no, no, you want to laugh because of the word zines. Because it makes me feel like we are having like we're doing like a very special episode of Blossom. Would watch that episode of Blossom to be clear. But we are talking about someone who was prosecuted for terrorism for moving a box of zines. And it's been interesting how this case is discussed in conservative media and in the media more generally where it's just like ah, like you know, they were colluding to do Marxist terrorism which like one, it is legal to be a Marxist, just like it is legal in the United States to be a white nationalist. Completely legal. Now will the FBI spend a lot of time listening to your phone calls and trying to encourage you to move guns across state lines? Yes. So remember, if anyone is excited about you doing crimes, it's always a fed. Every time. No one wants to help you do crimes. That's like a really important lesson that I always want everybody to take away. Nobody wants to help you do crimes. But also it's completely legal. It is completely legal to have a politics that I think sucks. It's totally legal. And the idea that this is doing anything to foment national security writ large is mind bendingly stupid. Like it just is. This is all happening also while there still is to be clear, as far as I know, that MAGA slush fund for Jan6people, Jan6 Defenders. Well I mean of course they will. They're all make the point of like, you know, so many of them didn't even do anything. The cops just let them in and all this other stuff and then they had to deal with like years and years of prison. And there is a version of all of this and I'm reminded of how like just after January six you get, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene complaining about like jail conditions and a bunch of like libertarians being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow.
- [24:08]
Tim Miller
You know, there were some people that got too harsh of sentences that didn't do anything on January 6th that just were there and walking around. That was, that is true. That happened. That was not the vast majority of
- [24:18]
Jane Coaston
the people that happened. There were lots of people who were tasing cops and then you know, telling the victims of their sexual abuse of those people that they would be getting money from the government and they would just pay them off. That's a side note. So you have all of these people who are like, oh, you know, the government went so hard after us after this and then you have this happening and they're like, but that's fine. Do, do do that's. All.
- [24:41]
Tim Miller
Have we heard from Julie Kelly? Have we heard from any of the. No, like, big activists on behalf of the January 6th choir. Have we heard from Matt Gaetz? What about Marjorie? She's out. Have we even heard from MTG about this? So maybe I don't have to. I might want to give MTG the benefit of the doubt. If you have MTG's email or phone number out there, please ask her about this story. I don't. But, like, this is crazy.
- [25:04]
Jane Coaston
No, it is insane. It's objectively insane. When you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And when you believe that you have this thing antifa, you have created it into being an overarching terrorist network the likes of which we have not seen since Al Qaeda or isis. Well, everything starts to look like evil antifa, Al Qaeda, isis, including someone moving a box of zines out of their house. Now, we could easily do this for any number of groups where, you know, they're moving white nationalist literature. You know, there's lots of that. You have some guy moving, like, printed copies of Siege or the Turner Diaries or any number of things, like Atomwaffen Division, any number of these things. And then I'm sure you would see people arguing, many of these same people that, like, you know, it's not a crime to have these beliefs. You know, this moving, this like, the
- [26:02]
Tim Miller
First Amendment's under threat. Remember this whole thing about how my extremist views, my First Amendment views are under threat because Facebook, a private company, deleted my post or canceled my account because I was.
- [26:13]
Jane Coaston
And that's why we have to get rid of section 230, because, you know, life is very hard for me personally.
- [26:18]
Tim Miller
This is a very commonly expressed view on the right, including by, like, the richest man in the world talks about this a lot. There's this great censorship. It's an attack on the First Amendment. This is a guy who's been put in jail for 30 to 100 years for leftist zines. Where the fuck is Elon? Where is the outrage about this? It is.
- [26:38]
Jane Coaston
He's very busy attempting to foment race war in the United Kingdom. He's got a lot to do over there.
- [26:44]
Tim Miller
And so, I don't know. I mean, the guy that shot the cop. Let's see what the details are of this. And all this, obviously, this was very stupid, and this was not something you should do and you should be punished if it was in the law. But it's like, for the same people that came to Kyle Rittenhouse's defense, when he showed up to a protest with a gun that are doing the stand your ground nonsense, that are talking about how their rights are being abridged by the government to now want to throw the book at kind of some weird lefty guys that wanted to do earnest protests outside of the ICE facility. I mean, talking about the fact that I guess is stupid.
- [27:24]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, no, I mean, it's a personal libertarianism. It's like I should be able to do whatever I want and you should have to do whatever I want you to say.
- [27:33]
Tim Miller
Whatever I say?
- [27:33]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, whatever I say.
- [27:34]
Tim Miller
Oh, that's right.
- [27:34]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, that's it.
- [27:35]
Tim Miller
That's really good. Okay, well, I want to keep talking about this because unfortunately we're gonna need, I don't know, a July 4th Texas choir probably for these people so they can get pardoned by President Jon Ossoff or whatever in 2029, God willing. But it's a fucking sick story. Really quick aside, I just wanted to mention another story. It's kind of hard to get everything happening in the news, but there's also this pretty shocking New York Times story about one of the Minnesota protesters, Paul Johnson, a couple days ago. Now, this is, according to Johnson, no reason not to believe him. Plenty of reason not to believe dhs. Johnson says he laid for hours in a hospital bed in Minneapolis, woozy from pain pills and addled from the head blows that he said he received from federal agents. He was alone. He's unable to communicate with anyone. He was strapped in place by shackles on his leg. He was there in the hospital for five days. And the story is. It's horrific, it's monstrous, and they're just examples of this stuff happening everywhere.
- [28:40]
Jane Coaston
It's interesting how you go back and forth. I mean, the overarching message I keep having over the last couple of years is that the people are full of shit this whole time. And so the same people who were like, you just can't trust the Biden administration. You can't believe what the government says to you. That kind of like, New World Order Alex Jones thing where they're all like, well, DHS said that they were all very dangerous and that this is all. This is all 100% true.
- [29:03]
Tim Miller
Well, no, this is the Tim Dillon line, which is like, Alex Jones was right. It's just everything he was warning about
- [29:08]
Jane Coaston
when he's completely fine about Spider Jump 2.0. But, yeah, no, it's uncool. The Starbucks Ice Torchata shaken espresso is back for the summer, crafted with cinnamon, vanilla and nutty notes. Of toasted rice, handshaking with smooth blonde espresso and finished with oat milk for a creamy touch. Made for summer only at Starbucks.
- [29:35]
Tim Miller
Economic headlines keep shifting, but the uncertainty remains. Market volatility, rising debt and global tensions are affecting retirement accounts and long term savings. Many Americans are turning to physical gold and silver as tangible assets to help diversify their portfolios. Preserve Gold provides educational guidance including how metals can be held in an IRA. Get your free wealth protection guide when you text iHeart to 504. That's iHeart to 50505. Well, I wanna move on to one quick news item. Cause I haven't mentioned it all week. Is this housing bill drama. People haven't been following it. Basically it's like the one bipartisan thing that Congress has done in the year 2026. Great job to our friends on the Hill. Woo wee. They've been working hard. They got in, they did like I think a good 42 days of work this year in the Senate. I'm making that number up. It's something. Now they got one bill. Work together on it. It's for housing. Includes some good stuff to.
- [30:37]
Jane Coaston
It's a lot of compromises.
- [30:38]
Tim Miller
A lot of compromises. It includes a little bit of slop. Popular slop. But that's what you got to do these days to get things through.
- [30:44]
Jane Coaston
That's how you do it.
- [30:46]
Tim Miller
On balance, pretty good bill.
- [30:48]
Jane Coaston
And it's funny because on balance it was so good that you have Elizabeth Warren being like, yeah. And the Trump White House until, you know, everything changed very quickly saying, yeah. And then that changed.
- [31:02]
Tim Miller
And even like some middle people, like everybody. So the whole. So I think it had like five.
- [31:06]
Jane Coaston
The Yimbys were happy. So I was like, yeah, okay.
- [31:08]
Tim Miller
Yeah, okay. So this week Trump is like, panties are in a bunch because he's in a couple of testing matches with random senators like Bill Cassidy and others. And he's mad that the SAVE act isn't passed. He thinks, for some reason he thinks that the SAVE Act's gonna help him steal the midterms. I'm like skeptical about that. We could talk about that if you want, but it's a really bad bill. But I don't know. I don't even know if Trump really understands what's in it. I'm pretty sure Trump just thinks it's a. This will help me steal the elections bill.
- [31:36]
Jane Coaston
Yes. Which he keeps saying that even though like just like one aside. Is that like part of it is that, you know, you would need a passport or a birth certificate. To register to vote. And I don't know. And I think Matthew Iglesias has made that point. I don't know if Trump knows who in America has passports. Just going to say that.
- [31:55]
Tim Miller
I'm interested in that. I feel like if we can only do two compromise bills all year, the housing bill and passport only voting are things that I would be interested in. We'll put that. Tell me more, tell me more, tell me more. I'd like to learn more about your passport only voting idea. I'll just see how that turns out. We should give that a test run because the SAVE act hasn't been passed. Trump said, no, fuck it, I'm not gonna sign your housing bill that his administration said they supported. They literally had like, all these House Republicans want is to get into a picture with Mr. Trump and have him pat them on the head and be able to show the picture to their friends and post it on their Instagram so they can be like, see, Daddy likes me. That's all they want in life.
- [32:36]
Jane Coaston
They want to go and they want something to campaign on. They want something to campaign on because everybody's fucking furious. They're gonna have to go. I mean, they're probably not gonna do town halls. Cause they don't want to get screamed at about how data centers are gonna. I don'. Our children or something like that. They don't want to deal with this. Like, if you live in Utah, you're aware that, that, that Kevin o' Leary data center has caused everyone to lose their minds completely. And it's scrambling everything. You don't want it. You just want to be like, housing. We did it. You said you were worried about affordability. Here, here.
- [33:03]
Tim Miller
We did it.
- [33:04]
Jane Coaston
They had this whole event set up. They had the flags, they had the stanchion. People, like, Republicans were showing up. Republicans were like speaking at the same time being like, we did it. We did it. This is so awesome. We're so excited. And then Trump's like.
- [33:18]
Tim Miller
Trump's like, nah, nope, not going to show up to that. You got to do the SAVE act first. So that went back and forth this week a little bit. Where it landed is Speaker Johnson showed maybe like the tiniest little bit of stood up for himself, the wee little man. And so they ended up just going ahead and without fanfare, passing the bill. Johnson, he's going to. He sent it along to the White House. Whatever. I don't. What do you have to do to do that? I was never a hell guy. I said this yesterday. I'm a little bit out of my dump. On par Parliamentarians.
- [33:47]
Jane Coaston
He said he transmitted it to the White House. I don't know. Mike Johnson lives in hell.
- [33:51]
Tim Miller
She got a hand.
- [33:51]
Jane Coaston
Mike Johnson lives in hell.
- [33:53]
Tim Miller
So it's been transmitted?
- [33:54]
Jane Coaston
I don't know.
- [33:54]
Tim Miller
My husband will tell me after the podcast how a bill transmits to the White House, but it gets transmitted somehow. Transmitted over there to the White House. Now Trump has 10 days and he can veto it. He could sign it. They could do a press conference. He could do nothing. And the bill automatically becomes law. He could do nothing. If the House is not in session, then it becomes a pocket veto anyway. Who knows? We'll see how this turns out. I think Trump likes it as a cliffhanger for the next episode of the Apprentice. And that's where we're at on the housing bill. Okay, let's do some JD Talk.
- [34:30]
Jane Coaston
Fun.
- [34:33]
Tim Miller
So where should we go first? You'd mentioned the vice signaling with Megyn Kelly, and it was what she was doing was an example of vice signaling, but maybe not quite as apt of an example as what JD Offered yesterday.
- [34:48]
Jane Coaston
Right.
- [34:48]
Tim Miller
So the Vice President was giving an interview at the Richard Nixon foundation, and he has some updated thoughts on Tricky Dick. Let's listen. I think that his historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a renaissance, but I think deservedly so. As I joked with Robert backstage, if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12 hour news story. The idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy. And by the way, if you look at the story of how the deep state took down Richard Nixon, it's not all that different from what the same groups of people, the same institutions tried to do to Donald Trump in the first Trump administration. There is a parallel. So you know, there he's at the Nixon Foundation. So this was a planned bit. Yes, he had planned it. He was like, you know what? I'm go to the Nixon foundation and I'm going to talk about how Watergate. Not a big deal. Most of our listeners are my age or older. Not at all. We appreciate all the youngs out there. And so they either remember, learned about, or lived Watergate. There are some who might not have. So I just want to give a quick refresher, just a one paragraph refresher on what happened at Watergate.
- [36:01]
Jane Coaston
Because I don't think J.D. vance knows. That's the other thing. Like I don't think he has any idea what happened because the deep state
- [36:08]
Tim Miller
did play a role. The deep state did play a role in Watergate. I just the opposite of the role that he thinks. So Richard Nixon's aides authorized a break in of the DNC headquarters to install bugging equipment. They were going to bug their opponents. They hired some really motley characters to do this and they weren't particularly good at their jobs. So they got cuts. Then the Nixon White House enlisted the CIA to help create a cover story because news of this got out and there were investigations into it. They didn't want that FBI, they don't want the cops looking into it. So the CIA are like, guys, don't worry about this. This was part of the plan. We're doing some spying on some terrorists, maybe they're antifa, who knows? The whole operation was paid for by a slush fund out of the White House. The Chief of Staff knew about it, the AG knew about it. They both were convicted, went to jail. The President knew about it. You know how we know? There were tapes. The President was talking about it. So the President was colluding with the Deep State to help him cover up his plot to spy on his political foes. That was Watergate. That's what happened at Watergate. So pretty big story, pretty bad.
- [37:19]
Jane Coaston
I think personally if Donald Trump colluded with the CIA. And the thing is, the more I say this out loud, I'm like, yeah, that seems like something he'd do 100%. Like the. But you know, hiring, I mean based on this whole reflecting pool thing, yeah, he would hire a motley crew to break into the DNC and install. But like all of this 100% checks out. But it also like the idea that that would just be like a 12 hour story one. I don't really think that there are like 12 hour stories anymore. Like I think that JD Vance desperately wishes that there were. But like, you know, we're still talking about Jeffrey Epstein for example. Jeffrey Epstein is not a 12 hour story. Jeffrey Epstein has been a multi year saga and it's Donald Trump's fault.
- [38:12]
Tim Miller
I mean, I guess Donald Trump keeping his classified docs in his bathroom was a shorter story than maybe if past presidents had done that because he's done so many other crimes. So like JD Vance is maybe accurate in the narrow sense that it is true. The boss that he works for has done so many crimes that they end up not getting the attention that they might have gotten in a past era. And that if they did Watergate right now that it would get maybe less attention than it did for Nixon. In part because they're doing so many other crimes and in part because they have a massive Propaganda apparatus that would have tried to make it seem like it wasn't a big deal. Like, that part is true. So he is correct about that. I don't know if it's the compliment that he thinks it is. Really.
- [38:51]
Jane Coaston
No, no. Also, like, it's just funny because Richard Nixon, they're just like the right wing rehabilitation of Richard Nixon, which has been going on for a while. Like Roger Stone has like some giant Nixon tattoos.
- [39:03]
Tim Miller
Not very well. Also, I would like to object to that. I don't think that there's a renaissance. I don't know.
- [39:07]
Jane Coaston
There's not a renaissance also, because you just have to, like, if you're on the far right, you just have to strategically be like, yeah, and the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency and Nixon having his own, like, cabinet of African American advisors and doing a lengthy profile and interview with Ebony magazine about how, you know, how much he believes and wants to do more for African Americans than he thinks that Republicans have left African Americans behind. This is entirely true. You can go find that article. There is a lot of stuff where you just have to pretend that Richard Nixon is the Richard Nixon of like the campaign of 1968. And also not the Richard Nixon of what his presidency did or anything else about him. And also the Richard Nixon who again, hired dipshits to break into the dnc. The break in is not like, you know, obviously it's very interesting, but like, if you follow like the TikTok of how all this happened, you're like, I think that the quote from all the President's Men is just, you know, from Deep Throat is pretty much like, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but it's basically like, these were stupid people and it just went too far.
- [40:17]
Tim Miller
I used to know it.
- [40:18]
Jane Coaston
It got out of hand.
- [40:19]
Tim Miller
It got out of hand. Got out of hand. These weren't very smart people and it got out of hand. That's what I have in my memory. I don't know if that's exactly right, but it's something like that. I'm sorry to be stuck on this. The Vice President of the United States doing a bit where he's like, this crime that a past president committed where they tried to spy on their opponents, they tried to break into their opponent's headquarters. They used the CIA to cover it up. Not a biggie. Like that is pretty shocking in itself. That should be a 12 hour story on its own. The sitting Vice President of the United States. What he's signaling there is, he's like, you know, we can do crimes. It's not a biggie anymore. We're post crime now. We used to be a country where people cared if the president and vice president did crimes. We're not that country anymore. Thanks to the greatness of Donald Trump, thanks to the Trump Vance administration. The government can be corrupt and do crimes and we're not even.
- [41:19]
Jane Coaston
We don't have to hide the ball about it.
- [41:22]
Tim Miller
We can do it now. People in the streets, if you're protesting with your zines, you can't do that. But we can do crimes. That's their stated position.
- [41:30]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, we can. We are pro US crime. It's pro US crime. It's also striking, like showing up at the Nixon foundation and then talking about the most controversial, worst thing Nixon ever did. It would be like going to like, you know, the Ronald Reagan Library and being like a Rom Contra ruled, ruled. It was great. Also, remember how we helped to fund El Salvadorian right wing death squads that raped and murdered a group of nuns and laypeople and then Jean Kirkpatrick lied about them. That was so cool.
- [42:03]
Tim Miller
Look how great that's turned out. Things are going great in El Salvador now, right? While we're on, J.D. i've covered this quite a bit, but because we have the Catholic thing together and people just really loved your ruminations on your favorite epistles and saints eucharistic rites last time you were on. We should also just bring up the book discussed earlier this week. A key part of his conversion story is that God sent him an emissary from heaven to help open his eyes to the fact that smart people could be religious. That messenger was Peter Thiel. God works in mysterious ways. And he learned about Peter Thiel. He learned about Rene Girard. He started doing some reading and he's like, you know, maybe looks like I can be rich and bad and Catholic. That's neat. And so he's gone on a faith journey simultaneously to his faith journey to Trumpism. He's written a book about it. His wife not on board.
- [43:01]
Jane Coaston
That's a fascinating timing for a faith journey.
- [43:02]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Wife not on board. Just wondering if you have any thoughts. The bell hooks thing is also kind of weird. Bell hooks is first book was elegy, second book Communion. That's his. So that is a strange subplot. I just kind of wanted to give a let Jane Cook period in response to J.D. vance's Communion.
- [43:21]
Jane Coaston
I have obviously many thoughts on this. I will say I'm not sure if I mentioned this last time, but the Emperor Constantine's conversion to Christianity was Less obvious, less of, like, Christmas, like, seeing the cross in the sky and just being like, yeah, I gotta do this. In a related note, like, it's really.
- [43:41]
Tim Miller
Honestly, I wish he gave me a miracle. I wish, like, honestly, this is insulting. I wish he gave me a. Like, at least zhuzh it up a little bit.
- [43:49]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, no, at least. I mean, it just, like, there's a lengthy history of people converting to Catholicism for political reasons. People have converted to Catholicism in order to gain control of Paris, for example, because Paris is worth a mass. But, like, this may be one of the stupider ones. Like this, like, oh, yeah, and Rod Dreher was there. Like, I converged to Catholicism and the timing just. Just happened to line up for when I believed that a cultural Catholicism would be most politically advantageous. And that's not just me saying this. The Wall Street Journal was like, yeah, the conversion narrative seems a little politically incentivized. Which I'm like, yeah, yes. Yeah, perhaps. Perhaps it was. Perhaps it is a bit. But again. But actually, I want to get back to.
- [44:39]
Tim Miller
To Usha.
- [44:40]
Jane Coaston
I want to get back to Usha because I think Usha Vance has, in the last couple of days, worked her way up to be, I believe, a comedy queen. Unintentionally, I think, maybe.
- [44:54]
Tim Miller
Can we play the clip of Usha that you're about to reference where she talks about why she has not converted in a recent joint interview?
- [45:01]
Jane Coaston
Well, I think in some ways it has been a very personal journey for him. I grew up in a household, a Hindu household, a very stable household, and I've not felt the same sense of
- [45:13]
Tim Miller
need to seek something different that he has.
- [45:16]
Jane Coaston
So I think the journey has been more in our relationship.
- [45:19]
Tim Miller
Right.
- [45:19]
Jane Coaston
Trying to understand where he is, the
- [45:21]
Tim Miller
different ways he's thinking about things, how
- [45:23]
Jane Coaston
that fits into the life that we have together, and less a religious journey of my own.
- [45:28]
Tim Miller
There you go. Deadpan.
- [45:31]
Jane Coaston
It's just like, deadpan. Yeah. My family wasn't fucked up, so I didn't have this whole need to go into, like, you know, have a whole journey. We were actually just fine. Which one? I love that Usha obviously knows that her family and her herself are targeted by some of the worst elements of human society and people on the right for being not white and not Christian. There are people routinely who are like, ah, like invaders. Bullshit. And I just love that she's like, actually, we were solid and stable and normal, unlike these fucking weirdos over here.
- [46:12]
Tim Miller
Not like the white Appalachians. I was like, people. My husband has been saying that it's Created some issues with. With continuity in the country, you know, having all that. No continuity issues in our house. Our Hindu household. Just my parents is good. We ate Indian food, vegetarians had our.
- [46:32]
Jane Coaston
I'm very successful. I have done all the right things.
- [46:37]
Tim Miller
I didn't need like a satanic tech demon to be a spiritual guide for me because I was spiritually fulfilled.
- [46:43]
Jane Coaston
Already has an energy that says there's a lot going on here that I don't need to know more about. Didn't need any of that. I'm all good. Yeah. Which again, I respect her for just having the. Like, actually, he's the problem.
- [46:59]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [47:00]
Jane Coaston
Which, you know, I respect that. I will respect that. You know, like, people make choices and I respect that.
- [47:07]
Tim Miller
Have you suffered through any of communion?
- [47:08]
Jane Coaston
No, I have not. I'm good. I'm good.
- [47:11]
Tim Miller
I wanna make you. Can I give you an assignment? I kind of wanna make you.
- [47:14]
Jane Coaston
Okay, you can give me an assignment, but adult. I will read two chapters if you provide me with a copy of this book without me having to purchase it via using currency because adult man.
- [47:27]
Tim Miller
I didn't read it either. Producer Ansley read it and created a document for me.
- [47:30]
Jane Coaston
Okay.
- [47:31]
Tim Miller
So we're gonna send you some selects.
- [47:33]
Jane Coaston
You just send me whatever you'd like. I love adult man. Converts to Catholicism. And you'll never guess why.
- [47:42]
Tim Miller
To be continued on that.
- [47:46]
Jane Coaston
The all new Tropical Butterfly refresher is now at Starbucks. Dive into juicy guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple. Popping pearls bursting in every sip. Ice cold, instantly refreshing and impossible to put down. Made for summer only at Starbucks.
- [48:04]
Tim Miller
If you've been following the news, you know the world is dealing with a level of uncertainty that isn't going away anytime soon. Inflation pressures, pressures, global tensions and the highest US debt levels on record continue to influence markets day after day. And the result is familiar to anyone checking their retirement balances or savings accounts. Volatility has become the norm. In times like these, people often look for ways to strengthen their financial foundation. Physical gold and silver have served that purpose throughout history. They're real assets that exist outside the digital and financial systems that tend to fluctuate during economics economic stress. They're not a guarantee and they're not a shortcut to wealth. But they can offer diversification when things feel unpredictable. Preserve Gold is committed to helping Americans understand their options with simple educational information including how precious metals can be held in an IRA for your free wealth protection guide text iheart to 50505 and with a qualified purchase, you could receive up to $15,000 in free. Gold or silver. Don't wait. Text I iheart to 50505. Do we want to do politics stuff? We have the Tim. We're going to end with the Tim Jane potpourri. Do you have any deep takes I have here on the DSA wins in New York and DAC Chevalier or deep takes on. I've been wanting to get to the Roy Cooper ad all week where Roy Cooper's just like, there's all this discourse out there about how the Democratic Party's becoming socialist and going off the deep end and weird. But I'm Roy Cooper, and I'm just a good old boy from North Carolina. And you know what I think? I think criminals should go to jail. This is Roy Cooper, and I have proved this message. And it's like, you're. And he's winning by numbers not seen in North Carolina in decades.
- [49:49]
Jane Coaston
For one thing. I think, like, others have made this point. I think that, like, New York, I know, holds a massive place in the American cultural and global cultural imagination. And it's been interesting to see how, like, these elections have for, like, either either if you're supportive of them or if you're, like, terrified of them, you're like, this is the future of the Democratic Party. Meanwhile, you've got lots of other people running in lots of other places where they're just like, we're doing something very different, and that's fine. I think that it is important for Democrats to be like, we run where we are and we work towards what we need. And so, like, something that, you know, to dac. There was some reporting talking about how. There were a couple of people who mentioned that they voted for her after a moment in which, during a debate with her primary opponent, they asked her like, oh, you know, how often do you go to the Dominican Republic? And she's, you know, I haven't been in a couple of years. You know, I'm here. And her opponent was like, oh, I go all the time. And, you know, people were like, why would you go all the time? And it kind of gets at like, do you remember during Mamdani's debates?
- [51:02]
Tim Miller
This is best known by the debate where everybody's like, when are you gonna go to Israel? And someone's like, I'm not gonna leave New York.
- [51:07]
Jane Coaston
I'm the mayor of New York. That's like, that's my job. That's the New York. That's the thing. I am not Jewish. That is a experience.
- [51:16]
Tim Miller
You covered that.
- [51:17]
Jane Coaston
Yeah. But the degree to which People, you know, Jewish Democrats voting for Brad Lander, who is a Jewish Democrat. And people are like, you know, he's a capo. He would be like, what was the quote from the Republican gubernatorial candidate that, like, he would be running a concentration camp. And it's just like. It's interesting because actually somebody has been
- [51:39]
Tim Miller
running a concentration camp. And, like, we sent people there. That's who sent. I don't think it was Brad Lander was protesting. It actually is what happens.
- [51:47]
Jane Coaston
Yeah. And it gets at, like, you know, I made this comparison that, like, you know, the right gets very mad about how sometimes people. Democrats talk about black conservatives. They've gone, I hate this term because it's repulsive. But, like, oh, they've gone off the plantation or something like that. And there is a degree to which you see this kind of like, hey, why are you making decisions? I don't like. And, like, it's a weird dynamic. But there's something. I mean, to the point with the Roy Cooper ad, where it's just like, North Carolina is not New York now. I think that what you saw in New York and what you're seeing in a lot of places is that Democrats are like, hey, stuff's really expensive. We should do stuff about that. Yeah.
- [52:31]
Tim Miller
And we're sick of the old. We're seeing this in Colorado right now. Stuff's really expensive. And they're just sick of the old politicians that don't feel like they're doing anything.
- [52:38]
Jane Coaston
And it's like, I mean, that's something
- [52:39]
Tim Miller
like, Michael Bennett's coming back to Colorado right now, and he's getting the Janet Mills treatment here, like, giving this gubernatorial run.
- [52:45]
Jane Coaston
It's like, I think that an understated thing about the platinum or Janet Mills thing is that Janet Mills is 80.
- [52:49]
Tim Miller
Yeah, right.
- [52:50]
Jane Coaston
Like, people. I mean, it's been talked about, but maybe not enough. Like, the gerontocracy thing is real.
- [52:57]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I know. I mean, here's the thing. It makes for good discourse. There's legitimate concerns about the views in particular that Chevalier has. And I think that there's legitimate concerns about rising anti Semitism. We cover that a lot.
- [53:11]
Jane Coaston
Oh, yeah. To be clear, also dac, the whole thing of, like, interracial marriage, like, being against interracial marriage, but, like, leftistly, I'm like, girl, like.
- [53:22]
Tim Miller
And just as a general thing, also, this is kind of an underappreciated part about the campus protests. It's like, she was there and she's in the. I was like, she's 30. I mean, like, okay, like you're allowed to go to school for 12 years if you want and get a doctorate. I have nothing against anybody that wants to do that, but it feels a little bit against the spirit of the campus protest to be a 30 year old as a key campus protester. One man's opinion. Anyway, closing the loop on Roy Cooper. I just want to offer because we have a lot of discussion, you guys do it crooked. What should the Democrats do in the future? How do you win? And I know that what we want to be true is that people want to be inspired, that we need a new path forward and some creative ideas that will make life better for people and we can aspire to a better politics. And I hear all that but like Maybe it's a 350 electoral vote win just to be like, I'm Roy Cooper and I think you should. We should love our neighbors as we love ourselves and I think we should put criminals in prison. And I approved this message and I was maybe that's good enough. Seems like it's doing pretty well in North Carolina. Democrats haven't won North Carolina in a while. Roy Cooper just wants to follow the golden rule and make sure bad guys are behind bars. Don't hate it.
- [54:40]
Jane Coaston
The Starbucks Ice Torchata shaken espresso is back for the summer. Crafted with cinnamon, vanilla and nutty notes of toasted rice. Handshaking with smooth blonde espresso and finished with oat milk for a creamy touch. Made for summer only at Starbucks.
- [54:57]
Tim Miller
With record US debt, ongoing geopolitical tensions and constant market swings, many people are rethinking how to protect their savings. Physical gold and silver have been used for generations during uncertain times to diversify, not replace traditional investments. Preserve gold helps Americans understand these options. Text IHEART to 50505 to get your free wealth protection guide and explore how precious metals may fit into your retirement planning. Alright, here's the potpourri. 3. We're not going to get to Everything podcast has already been long. Okay, I've created eight topics that are in the Tim Jane Hobby Horse and we'll go back and forth until the podcast is over. We won't get to all of them. We want to leave people with, you know, we leave people a little bit something to want to come back for the next time. Okay? Topic one is Caitlin Clark Discourse. Topic two is Jane Coasted Nostalgia Theory as evidenced by Vanilla Ice. Topic three is the Anthropic Economist talking about the log utility of human beings. Topic four is Congressman Abe Hamade, Republican from Arizona's interesting Living arrangement. Topic five is Haral Bob, famous gambler and podcaster and sports team owner. He wants to repeal the 19th Amendment. Topic 6 is a Jane favorite about how Republicans want to start prosecuting women who have abortions. Topic seven is Brandon Sorsby's gambling scandal. And topic eight is Diana Rossini's love affair with Mike Vrabel. Eight great topics. We're not going to get to all of them.
- [56:30]
Jane Coaston
You want to start?
- [56:30]
Tim Miller
No, you start. You're the guest. You pick the first of the eight.
- [56:33]
Jane Coaston
Okay, so coast of Nostalgia theory. I will start there.
- [56:36]
Tim Miller
Okay, great.
- [56:37]
Jane Coaston
So coast of nostalgia theory. And it has proven time tested, which is a funny way to refer to it. Do you miss this time or were you young and or hot at the time? So Vanilla Ice, you remember.
- [56:55]
Tim Miller
Can I read the quote? Do you have it in front of me?
- [56:56]
Jane Coaston
Yes. I do not have it in front of you.
- [56:57]
Tim Miller
I want to read the quote of Vanilla Ice. And I believe it was in the Atlantic. Our friends at the Atlantic did some important reporting on this. And Vanilla Ice is one of the two people that said that they would go to Donald Trump's stupid fair. He said this. I am complete American through and through, all my bones. To every TV show, to Blockbuster Videos, to ripping our back seats out and putting in subwoofers, to having Z cover Ricci pants, to even having a bolo. You remember what a BOLO was?
- [57:28]
Jane Coaston
Yes. So the article makes it clear that Vanilla Ice believes that the early 1990s were the zenith of human civilization. Now, could it be?
- [57:40]
Tim Miller
Well, it's a great time. Good time. Pretty good.
- [57:44]
Jane Coaston
I was six, so. And I was not good at being six. I think just to preface this, I am the kind of person who, like, I was born to be between the ages of like 35 and 38. Like, that's what I was meant to do. That I was meant to, like, read the New York Times and complain about it. Like, that's what I was meant to do. That. It's just that people don't like it when you do that when you're seven. They get very annoyed by it. Anyway, so Vanilla Ites reached his personal zenith in the early 1990s. Most fame. He was dating Madonna. He was like in the, like Bustle
- [58:18]
Tim Miller
Teenage Mutant 2 People who dated Madonna, mentioned in the show. Yeah, that's interesting.
- [58:23]
Jane Coaston
He was in a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. I mean, that's, that's, you know, Go ninja, Go ninja, go. Like, he had a great time and then he stopped having such a good time as the article Details. And it makes total sense to me that he would find the time at which he was young, hot and really famous to be incidentally the greatest time in American history. And he is not alone in thinking that. And like I love. And you can tell this because when the greatest time in human history has slowly moved forward as people get older and talk on the Internet. So if you read the comments on different centrist, right leaning, left leaning websites, the commenters all tend to be in general of what I've seen. Like from like National Review to the Free Press or even like left leaning sites. The commenters who comment a lot all tend to be in like early 70s, which means that they were in their 20s, in the 70s, like you know, just about right. You will never guess when they think the greatest time to be alive was Tim. They believe firmly that the greatest time to be alive was like 1977. I consider myself to be an amateur cultural historian. I happen to be aware that in actual life, 1977 was not a great time in America. A lot of problems. We had some blackouts. We had the Son of Sam stagflation. A lot of stagflation. A lot of issues. My favorite example of movies that if you didn't really know what they were about, you'd think were super happy, but they aren't. Like Saturday Night Fever is actually an incredibly depressing movie. Banging soundtrack. But like it is telling. When people talk about, you know, you see this with comments like, there's a lot of Internet slop about like, remember how great things were? Nikki Haley did this. Like, do you remember being a child and how free and awesome things were? We just gonna get that back. And I'm like, well, you can't because people can't be 10. There's a user on bluesky who talks a lot about like everyone is 12. Theory of just people just attempting to get back to like being 12. Or as I'd argue, when they were young and hot. And it's like everything is centered around when people were young and hot. The cultural norms. Like, oh, you know, When I was 22, I was young and hot and dating all these people. I don't understand why Gen Z isn't just doing that. And I'm like, well, you are not 22 and your memories of being 22 might be a little off. So coaster nostalgia theory never fails. It's always correct.
- [61:06]
Tim Miller
I love kosher nostalgia theory. And it isn't. There's the exception that proves the rule. And it's a handful of people such as myself who have Peter Pan syndrome. And here's the thing, and this allows us the we get a thick skin against having to deal with the consequences of Coasted Nostalgia Theory. It has its own side of problems. And some of the commenters on this very podcast have mentioned that they noticed some of the negative side effects of Peter Panther. Nobody gets out of this world without some issues. But I was listening to Joe Rogan yesterday, first time in a while, and he has. It was just a classic coast of Nostalgia theory. He's just become grumpy old rich guy now. There's no joie de vivre. There's no love of life, there's no joy in the podcast. It's just him bitching about how LA isn't as cool as it used to be. And it's like, you know, and you'll
- [61:58]
Jane Coaston
never guess when LA was out of
- [61:59]
Tim Miller
school, when he was hot and young. And it's like, you know, here's a way to avoid that. That if you want to do the Steve Buscemi how do you do fellow kids meme. It might look embarrassing, but it makes you stay current. Because for me to acknowledge that the past was better would mean that I'm not having a good time now. And it's important to me to pretend as if I'm having a better time now than I was having when I was 22. And in order to do that, I have to look at the positive things that are happening in society, and there are many, because in any culture, there are going to be some good things and bad things happening at the same time. And so that is how I combat coast and Nostalgia Theory. I think other people should look into it.
- [62:40]
Jane Coaston
It's very important too.
- [62:41]
Tim Miller
Ooh, which one should I choose? I'm going to choose Abe Hamaday because I've received so many texts about this. He's a congressman from Arizona.
- [62:48]
Jane Coaston
The Aaron shock of our time.
- [62:50]
Tim Miller
He is the Aaron shock of our time. If people do not know Congressman Hamaday, I would just recommend that you just Google him really quick. It's just important to just get a visual of who we're talking about.
- [62:58]
Jane Coaston
About.
- [62:58]
Tim Miller
I've got to meet Abe several times. I was kind of the de facto circus correspondent for the state of Arizona during, God, I don't know, Times Flat circle. What would that have been? The 22 campaign. And so I was in Arizona a lot, was covering Arizona. He's been a figure. It's always been. I've always had some questions, but I'm not an outer. I think everybody should live their Truth. So I was interested to see the story came up today or yesterday rather. And I just want to read a little bit from it. First term Arizona Republican Abe Hamaday had been living with a senior male advisor at his Capitol Hill residence. People described the relationship as closer than a typical member Stafford dynamic. The Stafford had been a Realtor previously. On May 5, 2025, Hamiday Ms. Flor votes while on vacation in California with the staffer, a trip he posted about on his private Instagram. So people are asking me what do I know? I don't know anything besides what is in the story and besides what I can see with my eyes and what you can see with your eyes if you Google it. And so up until the moment where Abe Hamadeh sends me a dick pic in DMs, I'm going to assume that he is straight and having a really weird relationship with the former realtor that is a senior staffer in his office. And I'm taking no further questions at this time. Jane, do you have anything to ask?
- [64:20]
Jane Coaston
I would just say that at no point is living with and having a close relationship with senior staffer. Good. I think that that goes across all orientations. I think we can all agree, like there's a version of the story in which the senior staffer in question is a woman. And I'd still be like, well that's screwed up. Don't do that. None of it. Also, like, again, part of the reason why I make the Aaron Shock comparison is because there's a real look smacking thing going on here. And also because the Aaron Shock story may be one of my absolute favorite. It is a congressman brought low, brought asunder by an interior decorator who. So there's this is like 11 years ago. So Aaron Schock, representative. He has redecorated his office and a Washington Post reporter is there to do something and the interior decorator is also there and she's like, hey, do you want a tour? And. And that resulted in.
- [65:19]
Tim Miller
And it was a Downton Abbey themed.
- [65:21]
Jane Coaston
It was a Downton Abbey themed which I, you know, again, not casting aspersions should have been a tell. You might be stunned to know that Aaron Shock came out like several years later.
- [65:30]
Tim Miller
He came out. Yeah. Now he's like an insta gay with muscles. And he got into a weird. There's a weird Venezuela scandal with him. He's trying to get in on the Venezuela cash.
- [65:38]
Jane Coaston
Of course.
- [65:39]
Tim Miller
Much love to the people of Venezuela by the horrific earthquakes.
- [65:42]
Jane Coaston
Absolutely. But yeah, the interior decorator brought his entire political Life to down, which is funny.
- [65:48]
Tim Miller
All right, we're over. But I want to. Don't want to deny people six of the topics. We'll go rapid fire on the final two. We each get to pick one short. We're going to have to just try to contain ourselves and we'll leave the other four for a future date. WNBA, AI Utils. 19th Amendment prosecuting women. Brandon Sorsby, Diana Rossini, Jane Gustin. What's your final choice?
- [66:11]
Jane Coaston
WNBA needs to do a better job of cutting down on fouls. They've been trying to, but not really. Also, it's telling. Whenever people talk about Caitlin Clark, it's always people for whom I'm like, can you name other white, heterosexual WNBA players
- [66:25]
Tim Miller
or any WNBA player? The Caitlin Clark discourse pisses me off so much because it's like, hey, maybe it is true. I try to watch the wnba. My complaint about the WNBA is like, the season timing is weird. I'm a prime possible audience member, and I do make it kind of challenging for me to get into it. I think that the marketing, there could be ways that they could improve on the marketing side of things. It's a fair critique.
- [66:48]
Jane Coaston
And I will also say, like, their games are blowing up. Like, the, you know, viewership, everything's up. They're doing great.
- [66:54]
Tim Miller
Of all these old white guys, the degree to which they're like, hey, I don't watch the wnba. But they seem mean to Caitlin Clark. Boomer Esiason did a rant. It was like, girl, Caitlin Clark should go to Europe because the WNBA is too mean to her. I was like, do you know any other WNBA players? Boomer Esiason.
- [67:08]
Jane Coaston
Also, this idea of, like, no. Oh, like, Caitlin Clark should go start her own league. Does Caitlin Clark want to do that? No, she does not. She does not care about any of the that. But the WNBA needs to do a better job of fouling because it's not just a Caitlyn Clark issue. Like, there was like, an Angel Reese, Brittney Griner, wrap up a couple of months ago. Like, or a couple of weeks ago, that was like, the fouling issue was a problem. They have either been calling no fouls and then things go really hard or they're calling too many fouls and the game's good, slow. It's not great. But also, there's lots of interesting and great play going on. Shout out to the Washington Mystics.
- [67:39]
Tim Miller
I have one more thing on Caitlin. Okay. Caitlin Clark. My daughter has a Caitlin Clark jersey. Watch rotten college. I'm more into college women's hoops. I kind of only know the players if they were famous in college. And I Googled this because I try not to on this podcast and on Twitter, make race rage. Baiting comments about things that I don't know anything about, which is like, the entire Caitlin Clark discourse. People that know nothing about the league that have decided that people are reverse races against her. I Googled it. She's currently the second leading scorer on her team. They're in third place in the conference. It's like, okay, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's fine. It's good. And she's just. She's kind of like the Jamal Murray right now of the wnba. It's like. And that's okay. And on the actual numbers, and so we'll see how it turns out. And I feel like if the Indiana Fever win the championship and she has a Jalen Brunson run, she's going to get lots of love. The whole thing is crazy. This idea that people are so.
- [68:35]
Jane Coaston
It's absolutely ridiculous. And it also, like, the degree. Like, I. I am bound to say this. The lesbophobia just jumps out where it's just like, all these evil lesbians are just coming at her, like, straight girl. Yeah, like this. Because there's no other straight women. And also that, like, it's just. It is indicative where it's like, you know, there's a permission slip. People write themselves to be lesbophobic because it's like, no, no, no, no. I'm doing it because I'm defending someone.
- [69:04]
Tim Miller
Defending women. Yeah, defending women.
- [69:06]
Jane Coaston
M many cases, I do also want to jump. Speaking of defending women and defending. Just like normalcy, there's like, two are gambling, Mavericks owner, repeal the 19th guy, who actually, he then shared that he lives in a principality with an actual prince who doesn't care about democracy. Anyway, there's been this kind of boomlet, not just him, of people talking about repealing the 19th amendment, a thing that will not happen.
- [69:31]
Tim Miller
Can I just pull up his tweet? And if we're gonna do it, we should at least pull up his tweet. It's important to read it. Me and Haralba have gotten to a couple fights on social media. He used to be on the Bill Simmons pod. He now owns a.
- [69:40]
Jane Coaston
He's on Pablo Torre's show.
- [69:42]
Tim Miller
Yeah, he owns a soccer team in Europe. He was a Mark Cuban guy. Okay. So he's a figure for people who are kind of in. Pay attention to that world. All right. He was replying to somebody Talking about how terrorist sympathizers are taking over the Democratic Party, naturally, because this is a direct result of the 19th amendment. It permanently altered the electorate, empowered the politics of emotion over order.
- [70:06]
Jane Coaston
Because that's what I think of when I think of Trump.
- [70:08]
Tim Miller
No, emotion accelerated the march towards open borders, welfare, statism and the erosion of every traditional institution that once made the country governable. Democracy went wrong when it made the lonely individual the basic political unit. The family should be the unit of representation. One vote per household and all the households raising children. You will be surprised to learn that Haral Bob has not found a mate. You will see him frequently sitting courtside at NBA games with younger looking women, which great, good for him. Hot young women. But he has not found a mate. And I don't know, I think that's just an interesting fact to mention in connection to his opinion about the 19th Amendment.
- [70:50]
Jane Coaston
It's interesting that people are deciding that it's, you know, it's been 106 years since the passage of the 19th Amendment and then they're like, this is the issue. This is the problem here. So I'm like, so we need to conclude that like every election from 1920, like, you know, things really, Herbert Hoover, okay, now they're best president. But like every election since then, the greatest generation, like the, every, every midterm election, like, you know, the election of 1948 or the election of 1952, like, ah, if only women hadn't voted then I want to meet the people also who are want to repeal the 19th Amendment. When something they do like happens, like, it really is just the most like, fuck this I'm taking my ball and going home argument. Like one, it will not never happen. It's like tankyism, but somehow stupider. Like this idea of like this politics that is so pure that and so perfect that it will just simply never happen. But also it like, it's telling that, like, could I convince women of my political view views? Because lots of women vote for Republicans. Lots of women are on the right, fewer than they used to be. I wonder why. But it is telling that the idea of like, oh, you know, we cannot, you know, women are just too emotional to understand how important it is that we vote for extremely emotional Republicans. Like Republicans who just rant and rave all day emotionally on the Internet. Like, like it's like a failure of imagination. Like, there's just no way we could convince these people to vote for us. Like, I mean, that's, it's loser talk. It's like, we can't win. So we just won't. We just won't do it. And it's. You know, I will point out there's a National Review piece from a couple, like, from after Mamdani won that actually made this point that, like, Democrats are trying to reach out to young men. It might not be working in a lot of ways, but, you know, I think that they're getting better at it. They're working on it. There's a whole thing. Thing Republicans have basically decided, like, we just really don't like women. Like, we just don't like them. I would prefer they don't vote. And then they basically want. They. Yeah, they basically just want to nag women into voting for them, just being like, oh, you know, you. You. Like, we don't like women except for, like, these specific women who all talk about how terrible women are. I mean, it kind of goes with the, like, we're going to punish women who have abortions thing, which you could. Everybody and their dog could have seen. Like, you could see this in the conversation about, like, even in conservative writings. The reason why they don't support imprisoning women for having abortions isn't because that would be evil and wrong, but because the polling is bad. Like, you know, if. If it were evil and wrong, like, then there was a. You know, the whole house of cards would fall down. But it's like, no, no, no, we can't say. We can't do that. The polling is bad. And so now you have all these people in the right who are like, well, you know, it just makes sense. And I'm like, you know, I wrote about this in 2022, like, how will we punish the women who have abortion? Like, you know, if. With the. That was when the leaked Dubs decision came out, and there was actually a National Review piece that was, like, responding to that question. And the answer was like, well, that's never happened. So it just won't. We just don't even have to think about it. It's just so far away. We don't even have to think about it. And now the only answer you get from the right on this issue is it would be unpopular to do so. Not that it would be wrong, but that it would be unpopular. Once again, these people. People are ridiculous. This is all very stupid. And women are cool.
- [74:17]
Tim Miller
All right, so. Well, I agree with all that. I will leave you with this. We won't do any takes because I'm just going to leave with the quote because I think it speaks for itself on the AI Utils topic. If you're concerned about any of the topics me and Jane have been discussing today, I've got something to ease your mind for the weekend. The new economist at Anthropic did a paper a couple years ago that included this summation. In other words, with log utility it is optimal to take a 1 in 3 chance of ending human existence in exchange for a 2 in 3 chance of dramatically raising living standards by a factor of 55. So great. Great guys. Two thirds chance that everything's gonna be wonderful. Milk and honey. Unlimited bounty. 1/3 chance we're all dead. We'll see you all next week. Thank you to Jane Coston. Appreciate you so much. Now you can see why you're such a popular guest. We'll be back next week with some less popular guests in the lead up to our 250th anniversary. We'll see you all day. Bye Jake.
- [75:24]
Jane Coaston
Thanks Tim.
- [75:45]
Tim Miller
The Bork Podcast is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, Associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Katie Lutz and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.
- [75:57]
Jane Coaston
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Tim Miller
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Jane Coaston
Learn more about our most powerful trading platform yet@fidelity.com TraderPlus investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services llc. Member NYSE SIPC this podcast is sponsored
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Tim Miller
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Jane Coaston
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Tim Miller
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Jane Coaston
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Tim Miller
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- [76:58]
Jane Coaston
All? Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be. It's those in between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out.
- [77:15]
Tim Miller
Little memories sneak up on you.
- [77:16]
Jane Coaston
And sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color, that chill. The new Tropical Butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Guava and Passion Fruit Flavors with Mango
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Tim Miller
Pineapple Pineapple Flavored Pearls.
- [77:30]
Jane Coaston
Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best part of the day. Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks.
- [77:40]
Tim Miller
Try the new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks.