Luke Russert and Josh Turek: There Is a Vast Rightwing Conspiracy

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast
Episode: Luke Russert and Josh Turek: There Is a Vast Rightwing Conspiracy
Date: June 3, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guests: Luke Russert, Josh Turek

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Episode Overview

This doubleheader episode features two notable guests: Luke Russert, former NBC correspondent and soon-to-be co-anchor of MSNBC’s new prime-time show, and Josh Turek, freshly victorious Democratic senate nominee in Iowa. The show covers the chaotic state of Middle East policy under Trump, the rise of right-leaning control in major media, and deep dives into the primary results, particularly in Iowa. Candid conversations touch on the collapse of traditional media institutions, populist politics, and vivid personal journeys, offering both pointed analysis and some lighter moments centered on basketball.

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Main Themes and Key Insights

1. Chaos in the Middle East: Unending Conflicts and US Policy Drift

• Escalating attacks: Iranian missile hit at Kuwait airport (01:46), further Iranian aggression in Bahrain and the Gulf, and ongoing war despite administration claims of de-escalation. Tim and Luke question the rationale behind the conflict and lament the dangers to servicemembers.
• Confused rationale for war:
  • "The reason why we went to war is still not clear... prevailing theory is that the president got duped by his luxury real estate partners into going to war with Iran." – Luke Russert (02:48)
• Incompetence and shifting power: Iran has weathered US strikes, shifted to guerrilla tactics, and appears stronger than before. Moderates in Iran are sidelined, with hardliners now ascendant.
  • "Iran is stronger today than they were when the war started... Why would they commit to a peace deal they don't think is advantageous for them?" – Luke Russert (05:41)
• Political jockeying in the Trump administration: Reflections on Rubio and Vance’s internal struggle, rumors of DeSantis joining the cabinet, and the broader implications for post-midterm Republican power dynamics (07:20).

2. Trump Era Media: Right-Wing Takeover and Vanishing Institutions

• CBS/60 Minutes controversy:
  • Scott Pelley, longtime anchor, was fired for refusing to inject partisan falsehoods at the behest of new, Trump-friendly management.
  • "New management has instructed me to inject falsehoods and bias into politically sensitive stories... Finally, incompetence and unprofessionalism in the new management have wrecked havoc..." – Scott Pelley (15:53, quoted by Tim)
  • "The First Amendment is under assault at CBS News... this is a five alarm fire. And frankly, I'm very scared for the future of media with anything that they touch." – Luke Russert (15:53, 17:10)
• Collapse of old media guard: Loss of the Washington Post and 60 Minutes as reliable institutions.
  • "If you had told me within six months the Washington Post and 60 Minutes were both going to be killed... there’s no way they could do that. And they're doing it." – Luke Russert (18:48)
• Vast right-wing conspiracy thesis: The narrative of leftist media bias flips, as now there’s “literally a vast right wing conspiracy trying to take over the media right now.” – Tim Miller (18:08)

3. The Iowa Earthquake: Josh Turek’s Candidacy and State-Level Populism

• Turek’s personal pitch:
  • “I've had to fight my whole life... We need real people in Washington who have felt the consequences of a broken system. Because when you have gone through real struggle, you will have a different level of empathy and a different level of fight.” – Josh Turek (23:55)
• Electoral roots and upsets:
  • Iowa’s Democratic collapse analyzed as a microcosm of national trends.
  • Noted the specter of Steve King’s return with MAGA energy and the bizarre Feenstra-Lane primary, showing shifts in rural conservative politics (25:33 – 29:25).
• Turek’s direct experience:
  • Overcoming adversity, dragging his wheelchair up stairs in Council Bluffs to campaign door-to-door. “I drugged my wheelchair up here. That's how important your vote is.” – Josh Turek (52:50)
• Populist priorities: Cost of living, healthcare, farm crisis, and government corruption as resonant campaign themes.
  • “Iowa is bottomed out... This is a state that is a common sense state... This is why I'm doing this, because you need a fighter for you in the U.S. Senate.” – Josh Turek (55:22)

4. Political Culture Wars and the Limits of Economic Appeals

• Culture vs. Economics:
  • Tim expresses skepticism that economic issues alone sway Iowa voters, citing deep-rooted cultural anxieties and GOP attacks on Turek as soft on immigration and “sex changes for kids.” (57:31)
  • Turek responds by doubling down on his “prairie populist” message but notes his willingness to break with his party on immigration, leveraging his background and personal story to connect with rural and independent voters (58:15, 60:38).
• Restoring “Iowa’s culture and heritage”: Dissection of right-wing rhetoric and comparison to Southern “heritage, not hate” appeals (61:34).

5. The Cancer Crisis and Water Quality in Iowa

• Public health neglect: Iowa’s skyrocketing cancer rates, inadequate state funding, and nitrate-polluted drinking water; the direct personal impact driving Turek’s legislative agenda (63:24).
  • “My sister got diagnosed with stage two breast cancer... the private insurance basically said, you don't have enough cancer... we need to make sure we've got guardrails on insurance companies because doctors should be deciding care.” – Josh Turek (63:46)

6. The Farm Crisis, Tariffs, and “Farmageddon”

• Iowa farmers in crisis: Impact of tariffs, input costs, lack of federal support, and mental health struggles in rural areas (65:29).
  • “This is betrayal. And we'll hear this is just one gut punch after another... we haven't passed a farm bill.” – Josh Turek (65:59)
• Populist solutions: Turek advocates for commonsense reforms—such as right to repair, country-of-origin labeling, and automatic farm bill renewals (67:15).

7. Warnings About National Security Appointments

• Bill Pulte’s DNI nomination:
  • Trump’s pick for intelligence chief seen as a crony move to weaponize the agency against enemies, not for actual intelligence work.
  • Senate Democrats contemplating holding up the FISA deal in protest (37:07).
  • “He is someone with no experience in national intelligence... Bill is a 38-year-old, a rich guy who's done some stuff at Fannie and Freddie, who just has a president's ear.” – Luke Russert (39:35)

8. Reflections on Media Careers, Burnout, and the NBA

• Luke Russert’s journey:
  • Left the media to travel and seek perspective—emphasizing the importance of real-life experience outside the D.C. bubble.
  • “You can stay here 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years and have no idea what happened in your life... Is there a world beyond this?” – Luke Russert (42:21)
• Basketball as metaphor and respite:
  • Personal memories (Tim Russert’s interview with Michael Jordan at the 1997 All-Star Game), current NBA playoffs, and the symbolic importance of American sports resilience (45:33 – 47:36).
  • “I absolutely to this day adore Michael Jordan because of the standard of dominance that he put forward... the Jordan standard of the hard work and just putting it in every single day.” – Luke Russert (46:06)
• The future of American basketball: Concern about foreign domination of the NBA, need for better youth development (47:35).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Iran and US foreign policy:

  • “The president got duped by his luxury real estate partners into going to war with Iran.” – Luke Russert (02:48)
  • “Iran is stronger today than when the war started... They've shown the ability to take the punch.” – Luke Russert (05:41)

• On Trump and the right:

  • “The only thing that Donald Trump brings to the table effectively in American politics is that he is a WWE hall of famer... he is a walking middle finger.” – Luke Russert (11:09)
  • “Now there is literally a vast right wing conspiracy trying to take over the media right now.” – Tim Miller (18:08)

• On the collapse of media institutions:

  • “This is a five alarm fire. And frankly, I'm very scared for the future of media with anything that they touch... this is not normal.” – Luke Russert (17:10)

• On running and winning in Iowa:

  • “I drugged my wheelchair up here. That's how important your vote is.” – Josh Turek (52:50)
  • “I've had to fight my whole life and this is what is needed in D.C. – people who have gone through real struggle, who know what it's like not to have enough.” – Josh Turek (23:55)
  • "If you want to restore Iowa to the way that we were, we were number one in public education and now we've precipitously dropped." – Josh Turek (62:17)

• On political realism and hope:

  • “I want that to be true. I wanna live in that world where the Trump voters are responsive to their economic concerns. I'm not 100% sure that they are.” – Tim Miller (57:31)
  • “What you've always done a good job of, Tim, is... what cuts through to people, you know, for voters... these are some big issues that we need to look at.” – Luke Russert (44:05)

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Essential Timestamps

• Middle East conflict analysis: 01:46–08:07
• Media and 60 Minutes controversy: 15:53–20:50
• Iowa campaign focus & Turek’s acceptance: 23:35–24:29
• Feenstra-Lane primary & Steve King redux: 25:33–29:25
• Turek’s campaign origin, door-knocking story: 50:42–54:15
• Populism vs. culture wars in Iowa: 55:22–61:34
• Iowa’s cancer crisis and water quality: 63:24–65:29
• Farm crisis and populist policy reform: 65:29–68:19
• Reflections on covering politics and career: 41:28–44:05
• Basketball memories and sports chat: 45:33–48:39
• Conclusion and candidate sign-off: 69:39–70:26

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For the Political Observer

This episode blends incisive and irreverent commentary with accessible, on-the-ground insight into the post-2024 American landscape. If you’re tracking the tides of American politics, Iowa may be the nation’s new bellwether; if you’re a media watchdog, CBS and 60 Minutes’ troubles signal a deeper threat; if you just love a good comeback story, Turek’s fight is one to watch.

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Listen if you want:

• A brutally honest but hopeful round-up on America’s political media meltdown.
• Firsthand lessons from the 2026 campaign trenches.
• Reflections on how real adversity and personal journeys may yet cut through partisanship, even in polarizing times.

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Transcript

[Josh Turek]

Foreign.

[Tim Miller]

Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller. We got a banger doubleheader show for you today. Lots happening in the news. In segment two, we have Josh Turek who won the Iowa Democratic Senate primary last night. He'll take on Ashley Hinson and the general. Much to talk about there. That could be a key race for control of the Senate. But first, he'll be the newest co anchor on Ms. Now it's the weeknight starting on Monday, June 15th at 7pm you might remember him, he took a leave of absence from the media in 2016 and went on a three year, six continent travel expedition that led to his book look for me there. Grieving my father, finding myself. We chatted about that a while back. Now it's Luke Russert. What's up man?

[Luke Russert]

And it also led me to seeing you at the USF Gonzaga basketball game in San Francisco, which was a fantastic evening where we saw Chet Holmgren at the height of his college, you know, euphoria. And I'd say he's, he's looked better since then. He's put on some muscles. It shows you that, you know, if you have a good base, you can build up to great things.

[Tim Miller]

That is true. That was, that was, albeit his last

[Luke Russert]

game was not very good.

[Tim Miller]

That was the, he already has the ring.

[Luke Russert]

He already has the ring, though. That's all that matters.

[Tim Miller]

That was a delightful little bit of lagna on your, on your journey. I was going to say the opposite of what you said about Chad. I think that we saw the weaknesses that were exposed in the Western, I

[Luke Russert]

believe we said that he has to go to the weight room and he has to eat with me for about a year to get where he needs to be. But he's getting there. But he's going to get the ring. He's going to get the max contract. You know, he's all good. He's, he's having a great career.

[Tim Miller]

I've got a little bit more on basketball and you traveling the world like Khan at the end of the podcast here. But there's a lot happening in the news. As mentioned, we had the primary night last night, but I think first we should start with what's happening in the Middle East. So an Iranian missile hit the Kuwait airport last night. There are also Iranian attacks in Bahrain and on an oil tanker near Dubai. These were in response to a US Attack on an island near the Strait of Hormuz. A lot of bombing, a lot of drones for a war that is over, according to the Secretary of State in his testimony yesterday. Most notably, I think that Kuwait attack left one dead, many injured. The airport wreckage looks horrible. And on the Bulbourg stock this morning, General Hertling flagged for me that this is the airport that most US Servicemen come in and out of. He's been through there a bunch. So it's kind of a relevant location for what our troops are doing in the Middle East. So it seems like the war's still on to me. Kind of in the war on, war off, kind of Wayne's World thing we got going on.

[Luke Russert]

Yeah, I mean, I'll take it a step back further. I think the reason why we went to war is still not clear. What they've landed on is that the United States had to stop Iran's nuclear capabilities. That's something that's been ongoing for decades. That was something that President Obama and his team worked through that deal, which seemingly was having success prior to it being ripped up. So you're left to wonder why we're actually in this war. And I think that the prevailing theory is that the president got duped by his luxury real estate partners into going to war with Iran. I got a call from, you know, Jay Kush and MBS and was like, hey, let's just do this. It's going to reform the region. Everything's going to be hunky dory and easy breezy, and it's not. And I think there's a few things to unwind here. Number one, it's incredibly dangerous for the region. So the airport you mentioned where US Service members are going in and out of our US Service members are in harm's way. I don't think we've gotten the straight story about how many times they've been attacked during this war. Thirteen folks have lost their lives for it. Number two, this entire region that was all supposed to be reformed. We're having comedy festivals in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Dubai is the place to be. You know, Bahrain's got the F1. It's now become dangerous again to the point of where all these economic reforms and them opening up to the world doesn't look too good for luxury real estate. And the last thing I'll just sort of say is it looks like the strait's going to be closed for the duration of the summer. And Labor Day is looking like the earliest time it could be open. I was seeing in this. What does that mean? High gas prices all summer. For what? Why did this happen?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, for what is right. And I do think that we've talked about this a bunch, but he thought this was going to be a quick and dirty job. But it's still, you know, their incompetence doesn't surprise me. Just thinking about Rubio yesterday, I just want to sit on this for a second. He's testifying on the Hill and you know, he's the one that people talk about as the competent one in the administration. He's got a lot of jobs for some reason, like during this period where we've gotten into this idiotic war with no rationale, as you laid out, like, Rubio's been like gaining conventional wisdom momentum and Vance has not, which is like confusing to me because it seems like internally Rubio is the one that wanted this and Vance didn't. In addition, as you mentioned, his luxury real estate buddies wanting it, and Israel, which we'll get to. But he's there testifying yesterday. He's like, we could have a deal today, Wednesday, maybe next week. It doesn't seem like we're anywhere in the ballpark of a deal. Just think about this in pure Trumpian, lizard brain, schoolyard bully terms, like the person who's more powerful has the leverage. Right now it feels like the Iranians are the ones that are executing leverage against us.

[Luke Russert]

Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think that Iran has undoubtedly taken the United States best punch and. Yeah. Did it knock them off their feet a little bit? Yeah, they lost some very significant people in the opening weeks of that war and that military escalation. But what have they done? They've gone back, they've hunkered down, they've bunkered down, they've moved into a de facto guerrilla warfare, essentially using cheap drones to outman a lot of the defense systems in the Gulf states, seemingly knocking at our bases or our allies at will and showing no sense of stopping. And I, when we, the president said, oh, we're going to eliminate an entire civilization and people are like, okay, that's, you know, that's extreme. But I think they sort of took that threat and said, okay, you want to, you want to do that? Well, we're going to show you how difficult that's going to be over the long term. And we're not going to make a deal until we feel like we're getting out of it. Something to stand on, something that strengthens the regime's power going forward. The other thing here, this has completely ruined any of the moderate voices in Iran. I mean, they've been now sidetracked for a generation, in my opinion, because people look at this and say, well, clearly when we put our moderate foot forward in the negotiating for a nuclear deal, it didn't do anything. And look, we got us all bombed. The hardliners in Iran will take that. But then secondly, reading the guys who are on bulwark and people who followed this for years, this conventional wisdom now is that Iran is stronger today than they were when the war started, that they've shown the ability to take the punch. So why would they commit to a peace deal they don't think is advantageous for them? So I will see that. And then quickly, I just want to put my 2 cents on the Rubio thing and that's important. Once we get through the midterms, the most interesting stories will obviously be who the Democrats are going to try to nominate. But this celebrity apprentice in the Trump White House between Rubio, between J.D. vance. Right. Is someone else coming in? I've been seeing reports maybe desantis gets a cabinet position to some degree. Is he going to be in there at auditioning this push and pull to try and harness the energy of the MAGA base while also looking just normal enough that the suburban Republicans that, you know, the people who are on the fence aren't going to be repulsed completely. It's going to be a very interesting thing to see play out. And then of course, you got Ted Cruz with the evangelicals and whatever lane they go in. But yeah, it's an interesting thing.

[Tim Miller]

Trump in the Post yesterday. New York Post, a couple of things says number one says interesting, we seem to be getting on quite well with the ayatollah. Is one thing he said to the New York Post. Is that true? It doesn't seem like it's true. He basically confirms that he was the source of the Axios report about his call with Bibi, where they were yelling at each other. He says that it's true. Unclear who else that source would be. Barack Rivet has bragged about how Trump is a source of his. Mark Levin had said whoever leaked that call was committing a crime. So, so I don't know, maybe another crime to look into on Trump. And as you mentioned, he said the blockade could still be in place by Labor Day. You know, there's no fears, urgency of now at all with him. And he posts the meme yesterday where it was just like, I don't have in front of me. It's just like everything will turn out okay. And that's kind of where he's at.

[Luke Russert]

Yeah, I, I mean, it's, it's just, you know, I alone can fix it, trust me. But it's not working here. I would. I'd bring up, you know, saying to Bibi, you're effing crazy. Yeah, he said that. It doesn't seem to have brought Bibi back a little bit at all. I mean, there's still. It was like, oh, we're gonna go after Southern Lebanon now we're not. If Bibi feels like he can do whatever he wants without any type of repercussion, that's going to prolong any conflict in the region for a while. I think that when you look at this, they expected Venezuela 2.0, and now they have no idea what they're doing. And all the people who know how to operate in this part of the world do not work for this administration. There are no serious players in this administration that really know how to get these things done, that know real politic, etc. So you're left with him just filling the void, going to friendly news outlets, be like, trust me, everything's going to be okay.

[Tim Miller]

But even that's not working that much. Can I just play for you? This struck me. This struck me. Megyn Kelly had Sean Ryan on. Are you a Sean Ryan connoisseur?

[Luke Russert]

So Sean, I saw. He's turning.

[Tim Miller]

He's turning. So Sean is a telturn. He's like a what? He's like a guns and military podcast. God.

[Luke Russert]

Guns and guts guy, I would say.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it was really a mainstream guns kind of podcaster that then veered more into MAGA world. Him and Megyn Kelly are talking. Let's listen to how they assess the state of.

[Luke Russert]

I don't know. I don't know what to think anymore. I don't even. I just. I don't even trust my own intuition when it comes to politics because I thought things were gonna be so different and I got fucking duped.

[Tim Miller]

Nobody knows anything about anything. I knew something. It's one of the themes of the year. The thing is, like, the Trump thing is so disappointing because he did seem like he was gonna be different. You know, he was independently wealthy, so there was some reason to believe he wasn't gonna need their money or be swayed by it. He's such a fighter and a middle finger. He's a walking middle finger. The cope is so strong. They go on to talk about how Miriam Adelson.

[Luke Russert]

I mean, what is this like, what? We thought he'd be different, Tim. I mean, look at the USFL documentary about Donald Trump. You don't have to know anything about politics. He tanked a football league that was on the upswing. He's tanked casinos. The only thing that Donald Trump brings to the table effectively in American politics is that he is a WWE hall of famer. He knows how to speak to the masses, get them riled up using WWE tactics. And the thing about wwe, the storylines change. People have short memories, they're quick. But my God, I mean, the amount of people go, I can't believe, I

[Tim Miller]

can't believe that I've been duped.

[Luke Russert]

Where you been? Where you been?

[Tim Miller]

It's really funny. Yeah. They go on to talk about how, you know, they should have known when Miriam Adelson was putting all the money. And they're just like grasping around. It's like maybe it was the Jews that duped us. It's like we don't know. It's like everything was right in front of our face. We don't have any.

[Luke Russert]

The conspiratorial nature of it is mind boggling. And it's like now he's become, you know, bought up on this deep state. And you know, that's the thing. He's always been kind of this blank canvas which every conspiracy could be thrown upon and he could serve as the vehicle. And now people are realizing it's like, no, he's just trying to enrich himself. I mean, this is about $600 million, no bid contracts for his kids. I mean, this is, this is not some sort of great dear leader serving as the vehicle for all your conspiratorial ideas. This is a pretty common thing to see. This is graph.

[Tim Miller]

Well, and we all saw it, everybody else saw it. But the brain is interesting. You know, you got to rationalize. You got to convince yourself that you weren't the idiot, that you weren't fooled. It's pretty delightful. We'll continue to watch it. You know, it's pretty busy around here. Shutting the daughter off to a bunch of different camps. You won't believe all the different camps that she's got. I'm doing all these content activations. We're doing some summer fix ups around the house. You don't always have time to do the shopping that you want to do to improve things in your home. That's one thing I love about our friends at three day Blinds. You can shop for the blinds without leaving your house and they make it as easy as possible. Three day blinds is a leading manufacturer of high quality custom window treatments in the US right now if you use my URL 3dayblinds.com the bullwork they're running a buy one, get one 50% off deal. We can shop for almost anything at home. Why not shop for blinds at home too? Three Day Blinds has local, professionally trained design consultants who have 10 plus years of experience on average. They provide the right guidance on the right blinds for you in the comfort of your home. You can set up an appointment, you get a free no obligation quote the same day. The best part for me when we got our three day blinds is that there's no diy. I don't do diy. I'm not Tim the Toolman Taylor. Okay? The expert team handled all the heavy lifting. Right now get quality window treatments that fit your budget with 3 day blinds. Head to threedayblinds.com thebullwork for their buy one get one 50% off deal on custom blinds, shades, shutters and drapery for a free no charge, no obligation consultation. Just head to 3dayblinds.com the bulwark one last time. That's buy one get one 50% off when you head to the number 3D a y-blinds.com thebullwork I wanna talk to you about some media stuff too before we get to the election. So Obviously the huge 60 Minutes news overnight is that Scott Pelley was fired by Barry Weiss and Nick Bilton, this new guy they brought in to run 60 minutes. We've covered this other place on the Bulwark, but for people who haven't, because I haven't on this podcast it started where on the introductory meeting of this new head of 60 Minutes, Scott Pelly just went in on him very aggressively, talked about how Weiss is murdering 60 Minutes, talking about how he doesn't know anything, that he has no experience, you guys have no qualifications. And then after that, they all had a long meeting, decided what to do. They fired probably by email last night. Pelby then put out a very long statement that had a lot of positive 60 minute stuff and you know, just kind of general. You know, the thing that you say when you're leaving a company but included this paragraph I want to read you is pretty interesting. For my part, new management has instructed me to inject falsehoods and bias into politically sensitive stories. I've been told to include assertions that are unverified. To date, in every case, I managed to ignore these instructions or refuse them. Recently, politicians have been invited to choose the correspondence for interviews on the broadcast. Giving politicians control over 60 minutes interviews is not how this is done. Finally, incompetence and unprofessionalism in the New management have wrecked havoc in a case involving one of my stories. The entire program came within 19 minutes of not getting on air at all. Woof.

[Luke Russert]

Yeah, let's unpack that because I think there is a very serious undertone there. What Pelly is essentially saying is that the First Amendment is under assault at CBS News, which if you know the history of CBS News, it has been a gold standard, especially in that level of broadcast journalism that has always been seen as the apotheosis of what it should be. And you think about 60 Minutes as a program, the NFL lead in nine, 10 million people watching the most important stories of the week that are wonderfully produced. And what Pelly is essentially saying is that he's been under pressure from his bosses who are installed by Trump allies, the Ellison family, to put in false information in the vaunted CBS News 60 Minutes. That is terrifying. That is absolutely terrifying. Now I work for a network that some folks would say has certain opinions. Never once has a boss come to me and said, I want you to put this into a story. I need you to have this opinion for me. Not once. Not once. So when you see that type of control coming from the top, it's very scary. And it shows how much this administration takes umbrage with truthful reporting. The other thing I want to say about Scott Pelley though.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, keeping it real.

[Luke Russert]

Scott Pelley, almost 40 years at CBS to go out the way that he did. He'll never pay for a drink in my presence ever. I mean that is the most badass of badass and guy like Scott Pellyman. This is a guy who's done some of the most just real truthful badass reporting we've seen over the course of a career. And he is not some lefty whistleblower like I want to go out and get a book deal and talk about.

[Tim Miller]

No, no, no.

[Luke Russert]

He's basically saying, listen, I've done this for a very long time. This is heinous and I'm going to, I'm not going to be a part of this anymore. And people really should listen because this, this is not normal. This is a five alarm fire. And frankly, I'm very scared for the future of media with anything that they touch because if they, the more control they mass, especially with their entertainment networks, there's a lot of little subliminal messages out there. It's scary. Yeah, I mean Tim, you used to, you used to pedal on this. The days of the vast left wing media conspiracy over there and there was,

[Tim Miller]

it wasn't not, not, it wasn't, not totally wrong. I mean, you know, there was some bias out there, but the pendulum has shifted and there, there is literally a vast right wing conspiracy trying to take over the media right now. You know, my old Republican instincts do come in sometimes in this thing. I believe in creative destruction. I think something else good will emerge. There are other opportunities. There's platforms like this one and others where people can have their voices, but it is concerning. I can, I'm worried more about the social media platforms than the, than the media institutions. It's sad, it's like depressing for that 60 minutes is being just totally gutted and I like what is left. I, they, there's, that's the thing.

[Luke Russert]

It's like we, we live so much on the hamster wheel and you have to go back a little bit. You're like, man, if you had told me within six months the Washington Post in 60 minutes we're both going to be killed. I know I would be, I, I would, I would have taken the bet. No, there's no way.

[Tim Miller]

I agree with that.

[Luke Russert]

There's no way. There's no way they could do that. And they're doing it. And you're starting to look at like, all right, what are the bulwarks? You know, you got to go to the places that are the bulwarks that are protecting real news and real thought. And we'll, we'll go as long as we possibly can. I'll tell you that.

[Tim Miller]

It's a good point. And if you take the lens back and it's the kind of thing that, you know, people would have said, you have tds, you're an alarmist. If a year and a half ago you're like, the Washington Post in 60 minutes will essentially be totally decimated by pressure from the regime and it's happened. And if you look at the CBS correspondence, we'll see what Bill Whitaker does. They have to get a whole new cast. I mean, everybody's gone, basically.

[Luke Russert]

Yeah, I mean, I don't see how

[Tim Miller]

people stay there and then who gets hired. The type of person that goes in is going in for a corrupt deal. Even if the person themselves, even if they manage to snow somebody and bring somebody into CBS who's a good person and a good reporter, but they're joining a corrupt system.

[Luke Russert]

Nothing will change there until they get new leadership. And if they even bring in new leadership, it'll be someone who would be, I think would be under pressure just to sort of put out a very milquetoast middle of the road product that doesn't ruffle any feathers.

[Tim Miller]

The other thing that's just worth mentioning, this is meaningfully different because other things have been taken off the air. Colbert at cbs. This is meaningfully different from Colbert in a sense. Like Colbert was a money suck and you could at least again, it's hard not to look at it without the context of the corrupt system and the pressure coming from the President of the United States on the media company to get merger. But you can at least listen to a business reporter that's like, well, this was inevitable. These late night shows aren't making money anymore. That's not the case around 60 minutes. Viewership was up 9% in the most recent season in 60 minutes. 60 minutes made like $200 million last year in ad revenue for the company. And they're gutting it for their ideological mission.

[Luke Russert]

And I would also argue, and we're a little bit older here, but speak for yourself. Yes, thank you very much. But like, there is a part of these broadcast networks, those big three, where they're civic institutions and the media division, the news division has always been considered a sort of altruistic deal. Right. It's like you may lose some money here, most of them make money, but the idea is like you got your sports, you got your entertainment, but the news, it's just a half hour a night and you know, a few hours in the morning and then the new show's like 60 Minutes for CBS or Dateline for NBC. Those are the important parts of the public trust that these networks are giving you. Unfiltered, unbiased news that helps you in your day to day life as a citizen of the United States make informed decisions. And if that is just becoming just done away with, totally. It's very troubling. It's very troubling. So I agree with you, Colbert. I could see the business rationale to it. Although I think he's an incredible talent and I miss him already. But the new stuff, no, there's an altruistic component to it. And if we. The private equity that it's over.

[Tim Miller]

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Summer's finally here. And you know, summer can be great. Time for pool parties. Vacation. I'm going to take a vacation this year, but I got some guest hosts ready for you guys. So chill out. Kids are out of school. It can also get a little overwhelming to juggle it all. Our family calendar is crazy. And if we're being honest, I think we all have moments when we're counting down the minutes till the kids are back in school. During all this, sometimes it's important to build time in for yourself. One way to do that is with therapy. Therapy can help people better understand their needs, feel more confident setting boundaries, and create a version of summer that actually feels good. And now finding a therapist is easier than ever thanks to our friends at BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. The short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences. And our 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means that BetterHelp typically gets it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match though, you can switch to a different therapist at any time. From the tailored Rex. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support and therapy, sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com thebullwork that's betterhelp.com thebullwork let's go to the primary results last night. There's some interesting ones. California, Iowa, Montana, elsewhere. I have one race in particular that really caught my eye, but I'm wondering if there's anything that you saw last night that you wanted to vamp about.

[Luke Russert]

Well, I thought in Iowa I was very interested in what was happening there. I think your guest you're having on Josh Turek later today. I thought his speech was masterful last night. I think he spoke to making it a local race but also talking about larger scale issues.

[Tim Miller]

Why don't we put in a little bit from that?

[Josh Turek]

I've had to fight my whole life and this is what is needed in D.C. people who have gone through real struggle, who know what it's like to not have enough, who know what a gallon of gas cost, who have had to put groceries on a credit card. We have enough millionaires in D.C. looking out for billionaires. We need real people in Washington who have felt the consequences of a broken system. Because when you have gone through real struggle, you will have a different level of empathy and a different level of fight. And this is what we need in D.C. fighters for the people. And that is what I will be in the United States Senate.

[Luke Russert]

Just sort of talking about how the rates of cancer in Iowa have gone up exponentially. How he got in the race because he saw all these people getting denied medical claims. His own inspiring story being in a wheelchair. And it got me sort of Thinking about, you know, the Democratic collapse in the state of Iowa is kind of a really good microcosm of the problems they've had nationwide. Because it's a state that one time had Tom Harkin, it had Bill Sack, it had Chuck Culver. There were statewide elected Democratic officials I worked on. I covered that campaign of. Of what? Joni Ernst beat Bruce Braley.

[Tim Miller]

The hog.

[Luke Russert]

The castrated hog. Commercial. But if you had told me, you know, that the. The Republicans were gonna win three straight in Iowa with. With pretty. With pretty comfortable margins, I would be very surprised. But I think this. I think Turks is a good candidate. I think Rob Sands a good candidate in the governor's race.

[Tim Miller]

Let's talk about the governor's race, because that's the one that I wanted to get to. Did you pay attention to the Republican primary at all? Because this one I've been. Yes. I was nerding out last night because I was intrigued.

[Luke Russert]

The Dear Leader selection did not go

[Tim Miller]

as quick as a Trump endorsement goes down. The backstory here is this one is for those of us, real ones like me and Luke, who were paying attention to politics before Trump came in. Steve King was a Trump, the original MAGA racist. Yeah. A Stephen Miller before Stephen Miller in Congress and was always courting controversy. But he ends up finally getting out over his skis in 20, I think it was 2019, drawing a primary from a guy named Randy Feenstra. For people that don't remember this, I found an old CNN clip, and I just want to play a couple of bites from that. This is what happened to Steve King in 2019.

[Luke Russert]

The big subject that's before us all that some might refer to as the elephant in the room is a situation of a New York Times quote, a quote that his own party thought was so racist, they stripped Congressman Steve King of his congressional committee assignments. In it, he says, white nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization. How did that language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization. For everyone who's a valedictorian, there's another hundred out there that they weigh 130 pounds and they've got calves the size of cantaloupes because they're hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the District desert.

[Tim Miller]

Shocking about the Mexicans are outside of canopy. Yeah, white nationalism. How did that get bad? So let's fast forward to last night. So Steve King ends up. Shows you how quickly things change. Steve King actually got beaten in a Republican primary because he said something too racist. Something I don't think you could say. Today he gets beaten by a guy named Randy Feenstra. He was a down the line Christian conservative kind of guy. And he was one of these guys that as the never Trumpers we get. You always get the right wing folks try to guilt trip us into being on behalf of the less bad Republican. And I got that a lot about Feedstra, like, oh, you gotta be for him. And I'm like, this Feenstraw guy seems like a total Trump stooge. And he doesn't seem like anything great to me. But Feenstra wins the primary, does everything Mr. Trump wants, gets Mr. Trump endorsement. Fast forward to last night. There's an upstart candidate named Zach Lane who didn't even register to vote in Iowa until 2023. He was a former Koch brothers activist who married into the family, so to speak, got some generational wealth for himself, used some of that money to invest in a company that manufactures cock rings, which we appreciate your support. Never know. Nothing wrong with that. But interesting in Iowa to be a cock ring manufacturer from Kansas. But he went full maga. He beats Feenstra on the back of endorsement from Steve King. Revenge is a pickle mistress. What's the last long go? Revenge is a dish. Sort of cold. Steve King. The racists are on the rise again in the Republican primary. And now Zach Lane will face off against Rob sand at the governor's race. What a journey that was, huh, Luke?

[Luke Russert]

I covered Steve King in the House of Representatives for many years. And he was someone who was considered so extreme that the leadership would always get mad us for quoting him saying, you're taking this one bad apple out of this beautiful House Republican conference. Why do you pay attention to this guy? Well, guess what? Steve King now could be the mouthpiece of this administration that's in Washington D.C. elected to the presidency. No, I mean, I think it's full circle for Steve King. I think that sometimes you always say that the, the party goes where the energy is and there's a reason why this guy was, you know, packing auditoriums for as much as he was disliked. And now you've seen that play out in this primary. I'll say this though, in Iowa, how deep does the cult go?

[Tim Miller]

Yep.

[Luke Russert]

Because if you're a farmer right now, your costs are through the roof. Tariffs are hurting you, fertilizer costs are up because of what's happening in Iran. The fuel prices over the summer are going to be terrible for you. It shows you Rob Sand. And Lon, you're Starting to see the differences between the parties and what the choices are here. Because sand is a very common sense Democrat for Iowa, without doubt.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Middle of the road Democrat auditor running on, you know, making sure everybody, no matter what party they are, if they do corruption, go to jail. I think it's the bellwether. Your dad had. Florida, Florida, Florida. I think that November is Iowa. Iowa. Iowa. Iowa's back. The Democrats are kicking it out of the presidential first four, but I think it's back this year. Trump wins it by 12 or 13 last year. So it's a stretch. But if the Democrats want to take the Senate, Turek is. It's Turek probably has to be part of the group. Maybe not. I think there are other paths. You could do Peltola Tellarico, but that's right on the edge.

[Luke Russert]

What do you think of Ashley Hinson? I mean, she seems to be pretty.

[Tim Miller]

She's. She's pretty talented and she's. I would call her a. And she's just a down the line maga.

[Luke Russert]

Yes, I should say down the line. She seems.

[Tim Miller]

But she's personally affable. I've seen her in person. I went to one of her events in Iowa. It's not like she's a wet paper bag and she's a compelling politician. She's been the state. It's gonna be a tough race for Turek. I guess the point is, if you're gonna win Iowa back again as a Democrat, this is the year, given everything that's happening economically and all the crazy stuff in the White House and these two strong nominees against at least one extremely weak nominee. And then. And then Hinson on the Republican side. It will be the state I'm monitoring. The closest, I think when we get to November. I just wanna talk real quick about two other races, Montana. I only want to mention this just because it's nice when the Democrats are in array, you know, and when good things happen. And every once in a while you need to mention it because I'm going to get to California next where that is not the case. In Montana, there was a handsome fireman named Sam Forstock. Maybe this is all the Democrats need is just handsome firemen that look good shirtless. He was supported both by the kind of center. I had Liz Smith on the POD Friday, like that kind of group, the majority Democrats, the center left kind of fighting mods and by the fight agency, aoc, Graham Platner, Morse cats I've had on the podcast, like that group, both wings that are fighting all the time. On Twitter supported the handsome fireman in this primary. He ends up winning the primary and we'll see if the Montana district is in play for the first time in a minute. If you're just looking for something that's easy on the eyes and something that makes you happy that the Democrats are pulling their shit together, you might want to look at Sam Forstock. Case is not the same in California. It looks like Javier Becerra and Karen Bass will get through to the runoff. So I guess the California Democrats are just like, let's just go full Steve ad. Nothing wrong in California. We're just going to take the two establishment special interest figures, put them through. In theory, you could have seen two Democrats get in because of the way the California systems worked. We don't know yet. It takes California about a month to count. We'll probably know by about the Major League All Star game who the other person is in these runoffs. But it seems like it's probably going to be Spencer Pratt and the mayor's race in LA and Steve Hilton, the little British fella and the governor's race. I don't know, man. I don't know what's happening out there.

[Luke Russert]

So we spent a lot of time in California. My mom's a seventh generation Californian, my wife's from California in the Central Valley. So I know California, California very well. I love California. Here's how I read into this, okay? You, you have constituency groups in California that mobilize their voters and get them over. The unions are very strong. You had other types of groups that push people and they build coalitions, etc. I think the bigger story here is Bass is very unpopular, but Sarah has never really been loved by anybody in his own party. And it's kind of now been settled upon as just like the guy, right? We needed a guy after Swalwell imploded. We don't trust Steiner because he's a billionaire. Porter never was able to get past the staffer issue. I was surprised that the mayor of San Jose, Matt Maha, didn't do better. I think there's. He had a lot of tech money,

[Tim Miller]

which I think is a problem now in the Democratic primary. For good reason. For good reason. In his case, I don't think that there was anything to be worried about.

[Luke Russert]

His campaign was uninspiring. But you know, his. What he. In terms of results, that was someone who I think actually would have been very interesting. Interesting to see what they would have done as governor. But here's how I look at California. This all now traces to Gavin because I, I find Gavin to be the front runner right now on the Democratic side until someone knocks him out. Who knows what kind of.

[Tim Miller]

I'll take the field.

[Luke Russert]

We don't know what, we don't know what Osip's gonna do, but as of

[Tim Miller]

right now, let's do a little, we'll just do a little bet. We'll do a dinner in New Orleans. I'm taking the field.

[Luke Russert]

I'm saying, I'm saying today.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, okay.

[Luke Russert]

As of today, okay, we're here in, in the year of our Lord 2026. I. And as the front runner, Democratic side, a lot can happen. But once he's, he moves out of office and California has Becerra as governor. Bassett. Ella. There's a lot of the stories are to come out of California that are going to be difficult for him and what is his legacy. And I think that'll be the very interesting thing to look with them in terms of, of, of national politics as far as the state goes. State just keeps on churning in. Fourth largest economy in the world, diversified economy, Sicon Valley money, AG money. I mean, there's always problems in California, but then it always keeps coming back. It's like the logo of San Francisco, the Phoenix rising from the ashes.

[Tim Miller]

The Model 3. Yeah, it always comes back, the muddle. Okay. One of the California races that caught my eye, I just want to flag briefly, just for other social media obsessives like myself. Sometimes you can get a little bit too into the social media discourse on a race. For anybody who followed the San Francisco congressional race online, it was very challenging to find a Scott Wiener supporter. He's a local, pretty accomplished state legislator. Yimby guy, he got a little bit crossways on the Israel issue, is kind of flip flopping on that. He's running against this very online guy that was AOC's chief of staff, ton of energy. If you're following the race on X.com, you'd think the former AOC chief of staff had a lot of momentum. He lost by 30 to Scott Wiener last night, who doesn't even get into the runoff. So it is important to know for those of us who are monitoring these races online, that, but you know, sometimes things on the ground are a little different than how things are going on the Internet.

[Luke Russert]

But that race is one I, I paid a lot of attention to because it's Nancy Pelosi seat and the seat of San Francisco, it's a very strong seat. There's a lot of money in that district and Weiner has been running for that seat for, like, the last 10 years. De facto, they were all waiting for Pelosi to retire. And I think there was a lot of speculation that she was going to try and push her daughter into that seat. And whether or not that was going to work, that's not been the case. But she's backing Connie Chan, who is a very, I would say, kind of normal San Francisco politician, someone who is a supervisor. So can Chan beat Wiener? I don't know. Wiener has a very good operation, a very good money machine.

[Tim Miller]

He almost got a lot of thing just clean. And he was in the 40s.

[Luke Russert]

Yeah. So I, I, I think he should be okay. Although it's, it's well known Pelosi is not a fan of him because she thinks that he's been, been too eager to ascend into the, the seat of the queen of California politics. You do not come into the throne until you are summoned, sir. So we will, we will see.

[Tim Miller]

Gays can be eager. All right, one other news item, and then I want to get back to your book for a sec. This Bill Pulte news, which we talked about a little bit yesterday. I come to the merits. It's such an absurd nomination to put this guy in charge of dni. It's just so obvious that Trump just wants him there to go after his foes. That's what he's been doing at the housing agency, going through people's mortgages, making sure they cross their T's and dotted their I's. If they ever said anything mean about Donald Trump, he's now going to try to use the power of our intelligence agencies to do that. Senate Democrats. What I wanted to flag, though, is that Senate Democrats are doing something that a lot of us have been urging them to do for a while now, which is use limited power they have in the minority to hold up things. And the report this morning is they've been telling their GOP colleagues that Trump doesn't withdraw Pulte as acting director of dni, that they will tank the bipartisan FISA deal because they don't trust this guy to be in charge of fisa. Totally reasonable. And the type of shit that we'd like to see more of. We'll see how that shakes out. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Luke Russert]

Yeah. So I think you're touching on something that's very important. That's going to be incredibly, an incredibly big story as we head into the midterms, which it does appear that on the backs of the $1.8 billion slush front that Trump was trying to give to the seditious folks who stormed the Capitol and also the tax freedom for his family that that has now seemed to have grown a spine in some Senate Republicans. You have Tillis, Cassidy and Corn, the ones who are out the door who are essentially saying, I want to have an opinion about this. Mitch McConnell I would throw in there too. And Thrun, I think, sees the writing on the wall that some of this has become so egregious and over the top. They have to do what they can to stop the worst of the worst of the worst. I'm not saying they're a profile encouraged by any means. There's a lot of stuff they could have done already at this point, which would been great, but they're starting to see, I think, a little bit of movement of, you know, what do we really want to go this far down the rabbit hole? And this insane type of stuff. And that is what Bill Pulte is. He is someone with no experience in national intelligence. I never thought in a million years that I could say that Tulsi Gabbard being removed from head of DNI actually made us less safe. I would take Tulsi Gabbard over this guy.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Luke Russert]

Do you know how crazy it is for me to say that? Because at least Tulsi Gabbard has been on a codell, though she's at least traveled abroad, has some relationships with some of these intelligence actors. Not the good ones. People would argue she's too close to Russia, but she's at least been in rooms with people who talk about national intelligence. Bill has no experience in that. Bill is a 38 year old, a rich guy who's done some stuff at Fanny and Freddy, who just has a president's ear. And we've gotten to the point now where the Dear Leader is a seemingly just, you know, who in the Legion of Doom do I have who is unfailingly loyal to me, no matter the qualifications? And oh, by the way, if there's some horrific terrorist attack, you know how bad this is? It's terrible. It's terrible.

[Tim Miller]

Terrible. Yeah. And he's not even trying to do intelligence the thing, he's trying to do domestic spy.

[Luke Russert]

Real quickly on that. I just want this historical point because we can nerd out.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Luke Russert]

In 2011, when Boehner, when, when you all won 63 seats, Boehner put Michelle Bachmann on the intel committee, and that was like a bone to that type of the party. I would love Michelle Bachmann to be head of T. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Good call.

[Luke Russert]

I think Michelle Bachman would be an incredibly successful head of dni. Comparative to Bill is.

[Tim Miller]

Is she still with her husband?

[Luke Russert]

Decided to get that in there. I don't know what Michelle's doing. Not watching the Bulwark, but if she

[Tim Miller]

is Mark, Marcus is Marcus. Oh, Marcus is doing these days. Marcus, Marcus, you're out there, girl.

[Luke Russert]

Oh, I went to Minnesota for that race, and she ran against the guy Graves, and he had a button that said, I dig Graves. And that was his campaign model. And then when she dropped out, this guy spent a bunch of money as Democrat. He dropped out and it's like, aren't you gonna run for the scene?

[Tim Miller]

I guess.

[Luke Russert]

No, I don't care.

[Tim Miller]

I just. Going against Bobby.

[Luke Russert]

I don't want to be in Congress. Which I thought was hilarious.

[Tim Miller]

Your journey back to tv. I wanted to bring this up because I'm sure there's maybe some like me. I had initial Luke Russard skepticism. You know, I'm like, he looks like a lacrosse guy. I don't know. He might have bullied me.

[Luke Russert]

I wish I had that hair still. I don't have the lettuce anymore.

[Tim Miller]

And so I had that initial feeling. But I also have a soft spot for people who go into the wilderness and who have, like, real life reflection, particularly in D.C. because D.C. is very much a ladder climbing culture. Culture. And it's just kind of onto the next thing, and people fail up, and a lot of times they don't think about their choices very often. And you spent a long period thinking about your choices, which I appreciated. Now that you're back in the game in two weeks here, June 15th, I'm just wondering, do you have any wisdom for yourself? Is there something you're reflecting upon from your time out in the world?

[Luke Russert]

Tim, I love your book because you hit into this idea of perspective and why we did it it. And in 2015, I actually had a conversation with House Speaker John Boehner, and he asked me a very haunting question. He said, what are you doing here? And I thought he meant, you know, we're having a meeting together. I said, well, you're the House Speaker. You asked me to do a meeting. That's why I'm here. He goes, no, what are you doing here in Washington? It's just. It's a place where someone's up, someone's down. There's always the next election, there's always the next bill. It's very cyclical, and you can stay here 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years and have no idea what happened in your life. Not seeing how any of the world works or even how the country works. You get so caught up in this bubble. And that was actually a voice that had been in my head, is this all you are? You grew up in this very cushy bubble in Washington, dc. You got a famous last name. Is there a world beyond this? And that's why I decided to take some time away, because I didn't know who I was. And when I took time away, I went to six continents in 75 countries. A lot of that was a grief journey, reckless sign, the death of my father. But a lot of that was also gaining perspective, not only in my life, but also my country and in my capital. And that's what I'm going to try to bring to Ms. Now every single night is being in the belly of the beast as a beat reporter for about eight years on Capitol Hill, but also seeing how the rest of the world works, the rest of the world operates, and frankly, how the rest of the world views the United States and what is our American identity within that space. So I think it's very important to, you know, gain perspective. And what you've always done a good job of, Tim, is that you've always been, I think, good about what cuts through to people, you know, for voters. Because it's so easy in D.C. to like get in these conversations where voters are just sort of like thought of commodity. They're like cattle.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Luke Russert]

And it's like, no, there's actually real people at the end of that. And yeah, you do have your true believers, like the 30% at each camp. But then there is a lot of people in that middle space that are looking for guidance or looking for understanding. And it's helpful to remind people in the day to day like, you know, these are some big issues that we need to look at. And yet that 60 minutes disintegrating before our eyes should make you concerned. If you're paying paycheck to paycheck, trying to put food on the table, that's. That's going to be something that's still a concern for you and your children in the country that you want to grow up in. So just sort of keeping it real in that respect.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Or. And people in the middle. The other thing about learning about people and getting out there and learning about yourself. I saw this funny clip yesterday of a guy. Guy was being interviewed, man on the street, California, and he was voting for Steyer and Pratt. And his reason was I used to be homeless and Pratt seems to care about the homeless. That person does not exist and the archetypes that people have in their head. I think it's just important to remember that we're running out of time.

[Luke Russert]

Just real quickly on that. The most interesting voter to me was the Kemp Warnock voter in Georgia. That voter exists. Who are they? Right. And that's an important perspective.

[Tim Miller]

Anyway, my last thing we have, the NBA Finals begins tonight and I wanted to get your take on that. You're a basketball guy like me. But first I went to the archives and found maybe some relevant audio that you might remember that I'm interested in your reaction to reflection on. Let's listen.

[Josh Turek]

What would happen to the NBA without Michael Jordan?

[Tim Miller]

I think the NBA would survive. I think the NBA would be just fine. I think it's got a great infrastructure with a lot of young players coming up. I think as we have mentioned today, it's a lot of young players who going through that transition period and it's going to take some time because of the maturity, but the NBA is going to be strong for a period of time.

[Luke Russert]

Grand Hill what would happen to the

[Tim Miller]

NBA without Michael Jordan? Well, it would give the rest of us a chance to win. All politics is local. Your dad, of course, interviewing Michael Jordan. What'd you think?

[Luke Russert]

It was a great day. Sedan was at the 1997 All Star Game in Cleveland and a young Luke Russer just volunteered to carry my dad's briefcase for that assignment. And that was an incredibly special day. And getting to meet those guys and take their photos was incredible. Like I love the NBA. I absolutely to this day adore Michael Jordan because of the standard of dominance that he put forward. And I think it's something that we all should aspire to as Americans. I honestly say that the Jordan standard of the hard work and just putting it in every single day and giving it your all for the NBA Finals. Sidebar Grant Hale didn't get injured. I think he'd be a top 10 NBA player of all time. Maybe top five. Very, very good player. Finals tonight.

[Tim Miller]

The NBA will be okay without Jordan.

[Luke Russert]

To answer your dad's question, yes, it has been okay. And the question will be, is it going to be okay without LeBron? Is going to be okay without Steph Curry coming up? I think so. I will say though, I'm very concerned about the future of American men's basketball. It seems to be going the way of American men's tennis. The top players are now all foreign born. They're learning a different style of basketball. What does that mean for the United States going forward. We need to get rid of aau. We got to get something in there that is teaching the players who are coming up how to compete at the level that we see with Wemby, we see with Jokic, we see with sga. Even though some people count SGA as an American now it's Canadian ball, man. It's a different. It's a different game. Okay, so that's my big thing there. But it's for the finals tonight.

[Tim Miller]

The Yanks will be all right.

[Luke Russert]

I want the Knicks badly. I really want them to win and I really think that they can create some magic.

[Tim Miller]

I wondered if you guys were. Nick. I searched when I found that clip. I was searching Tim Russert, Nicks. Cuz I was like. I knew Wizards.

[Luke Russert]

So you have my Wizards All Star game.

[Tim Miller]

I can't see it.

[Luke Russert]

Okay, so we. I'm now with. Through the family. I think I'm on year 29 or almost year 30 of having Washington wizard season tickets. You want to talk about like the patron saint of lost causes? All right. You think the Bills have a tortured history.

[Tim Miller]

They could be on the terms like

[Luke Russert]

at least the Bills, like get in the door. The Wizards are. Are. They're. They're lost on the highway walking up

[Tim Miller]

the first pick this year.

[Luke Russert]

Yeah. Yeah. They're coming up, though. They're coming up. We'll see. I like the. The GM and the management that they have there. They have good young players. K. Sean's good. Sar's good. Bob is good. They're gonna get a pick and we'll see what happens with Trey Young and. And Davis. But all that being said, I think. I hope the Knicks. I'm gonna go Nixon 6. I think the Knicks can create some matchup problems for San Antonio. If Bridges his hand is. Who's.

[Tim Miller]

Who's got Robinson.

[Luke Russert]

Robinson. Robinson's hand can. Can be okay. I think OG is a tough matchup for San Antonio. Brunson could play lights out. They just gotta get one of these first two. You gotta get one of these first two. But I would not be surprised if Wendy just goes ham and they went in four. That's fine.

[Tim Miller]

Me neither. Yeah.

[Luke Russert]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

All right. Bassball's back. Thanks. Wemby. In the next Luke Russert. Man, it's good to see you again. It's been a minute.

[Luke Russert]

Always a pleasure. Thanks you. Thanks for fighting that Jordan clip. That was really cool.

[Tim Miller]

Of course, man. Good luck on the new show.

[Luke Russert]

Thank you. Ms. Now, 7:00pm the weeknight with Michael Steele, Simone Sanders Townsend And Luke, Rusty, boy a pal.

[Tim Miller]

That's an all star lineup if I've ever heard one. Up next is Josh Turek. All right, we are back. He is a Paralympic gold medalist and state legislator in Des Moines. He is now the Democratic nominee for the U.S. senate in Iowa. It's Josh Turek. What's up, man? Good to talk to you.

[Josh Turek]

It's great to talk to you. Thanks for having me.

[Tim Miller]

Congrats on the win last night. How's it feeling?

[Josh Turek]

Feels good.

[Tim Miller]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Josh Turek]

I'm a little tired, working on two hours of sleep, but a lot of energy and a lot of excitement happening. And it was an amazing night. A culmination of 10 months out there on the trail and an enormous amount of hard work. But I'm really excited and so are a lot of Iowans. I'm seeing real genuine hope in Iowans eyes for the first time in a very long time.

[Tim Miller]

All right. I've been locked in on the Iowa race. We had a little chat for a while, but I think a lot of, maybe some listeners, you're not getting as much attention as the drama queens down in Texas, for example, so a lot of people might not be familiar with you. So why don't you just give us us just really quick kind of your first date. Tell us about Josh Turek's story.

[Josh Turek]

Sure. State representative from Iowa. Born and raised in Council Bluffs, Iowa to working class family in a working class community. Went through a lot of economic adversity early in my life. We went to the goodwill as a family, shared clothes, had the wrong color lunch tickets. I was born with my disability. I was born with a condition called spina bifida. It's due to my father's exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam. I had my first surgery at one day old. I had 21 surgeries before I was 12. Thankfully for me, found wheelchair basketball and had a very successful wheelchair basketball career both collegiately and professionally. Ended up playing in four Paralympic games, won back to back gold medals representing the USA and wheelchair basketball and. And then got involved in nonprofit work for disabled kids and got involved in in healthcare. I was assessing and providing mobility devices like power wheelchairs for individuals with progressive conditions. And we were seeing percent increase in denial rates for individuals that were on Medicaid here in Iowa and so decided to run. Won my first election by just six votes. And I did that by dragging my wheelchair upstairs every single day, rain or shine, hot or cold. I represent the reddest district that was won on election day in the Most recent election, the two communities I represent, Trump won by 18 points and by 10 points, I was able to win my district by 6 points. And now running for the U.S. senate because I believe it's a once in a generation opportunity to win Senator Harkinseed

[Tim Miller]

back, you just rolled past something there, pun intended, that I want to talk about for a second, which is that for that state House race. So you live in Council Bluffs. I've done a bunch of races in Iowa. We called it Council Tuckey with love. Gives you a little feel for what's happening down there. You mentioned in that race, when you're doing the door knocking, you're going around town. It's right there in the name Council Bluffs hilly. You're going upstairs, you're dragging the wheelchair up the stairs and then knocking on people's door. People had to be like, what in the fuck is happening? Like, who is this person? I want to hear a little bit about that.

[Josh Turek]

That is absolutely true. I wasn't very efficient, but it became very effective always. And you're right. Council Bluffs, it's one of the two places on earth with the Los Hills. So every single house has somewhere between 10, 20, 30 stairs. And sometimes it would take me 10 or 15 minutes to drag my wheelchair up the stairs. The very first question I would always be asked is 30 minutes, depending on how many stairs is there.

[Tim Miller]

Bro, I'm already not running for State House. If I got, if I got to go 30 minutes up one stairs, I mean, shit, even if it's 10 minutes, that's too much.

[Josh Turek]

By the time I would get up there, they would always say, how in the world did you get up here? And I would say, I drugged my wheelchair up here. That's how important your vote is. And then I would find, regardless of where they sat on the political spectrum spectrum, they would be willing to give me a few minutes of their time, even if they were a hardcore Republican, just to say, my God, this guy just dragged his wheelchair all the way up here. And I found that in, in five or 10 minutes of speaking to someone, I could tell them about myself and who I am and why I'm running and, and what I'm fighting for. And I would hear over and over and over on the doors, even Republicans that would say, I'm not going to vote for every single Democrat, but I like your kind of Democrat and focusing on, on cost and corruption and kitchen table issues, the issues that apply to 3.2 million Iowans, what I call common sense. Prairie. And one by one Iowan, by Iowan, whether it was a Democrat, Independent, or Republican, won them over. And that's what it's going to take to be able to win in a state like Iowa.

[Tim Miller]

Say, man, when you won that race by six votes, you'd be thinking back on all those stairs. That had to be, like, the best feeling in the world. I don't know what your highest success was in wheelchair basketball, but that had to feel pretty damn good.

[Josh Turek]

Strangely, actually, I was disappointed because I had worked so incredibly hard, and I thought, I have absolutely outworked my opponent. I definitely am going to win this. So to only win by six votes. And then also, I knew it was going to go to a recount, and you never know how that was going to be. But, I mean, it was an enormous amount of pride. I will say this. Out of everything that I've done, including winning gold medals and representing my country on the field of play, the greatest honor that I've ever had is representing my community in the Iowa legislature, without a doubt.

[Tim Miller]

I want to talk about that case you were making to those Republican voters that you met at the door. And kind of fast forwarding to today, what that case would look like in 2026 because Trump wins the state by double digits. Turnout, it's part of the game, of course, but you're gonna have to win people that voted for Donald Trump, kind of a lot of them. And so I'm wondering what the case is that you're making to that Trump voter when you hear him right now.

[Josh Turek]

The case is that Iowans are hurting all across the state, and it's because of bad federal policy. We are a state that is dead last for economic growth. We're 48th for personal income growth. Growth where one of two states are already in an economic decline. We're basically dead last for nearly every healthcare metric. We've closed 250 more clinics than we've opened over the last 15 years. Only state with a growing cancer rate now leading the nation in farm foreclosures because of the tariffs. Iowans are hurting in a very, very real way. And then you add that into the fact that this is the first time since 1968 that there's no power of incumbency. Open governor's race, along with an open Senate race and two open congressional races. And. And this is a state that is a common sense state, that in Trump's first midterm, we win three of the four congressional races, almost win all four. And in 2022, we're only 1.5% away from having three of our six statewide officials being Democrats. This is a common sense state that is bottomed out, no power of incumbency. And great candidates like myself and Rob sand with proven abilities to be able to win over independents and moderate Republicans and Iowans all over the state, it doesn't matter urban or rural area are ready for change. And you've got people like Ashley Henson that have absolutely voted to decimate the state. She voted for 110,000 Iowans to lose their health care, thousands more to lose food assistance. 119,000 Iowans seeing their healthcare premiums double or triple because of her not continuing the ACA subsidies. Someone that didn't support a ban on, on stock trading. Meanwhile, she's become ten times more wealthy. Someone that has supported the idea of raising the age of Social Security. You could go on and on and on. Ashley Henson has not looked out for Iowan. She's just been a rubber stamp for Trump and just looked out for the billionaires and the 1%, the lobbyists and the donors. And Iowans are tired of that. They're fed up and they want someone that's going to go out there and fight for them. And all these people that are hurting all across Iowa, I can say, I know you're hurting. I've been there. I felt that struggle because I've grown up in the same way. And this is why I'm doing this, because you need a fighter for you in the U.S. senate.

[Tim Miller]

I want that to be true. I wanna live in that world where the Trump voters are responsive to their economic concerns. I'm not 100% sure that they are. And I always think back to like when I had Joe Manchin on the pod, it's like West Virginia. I mean, if there's any state being governed worse than Iowa, it's West Virginia. And they keep watching Republicans. And so that makes me wonder if it's cult cultural issues, right? Like, and people aren't, maybe they say they're voting their economic concerns, but deeply it's a cultural thing. And I look at the hints and ad that she's put out against you. You know, the two issues she brings up is sex changes for kids and amnesty for criminal illegals. And so I'm wondering how you'd kind of respond to that attack and to the broader question of whether there's like a cultural disconnect between the Democrats and Iowans.

[Josh Turek]

I think that if we're going to win in Iowa, I think it's going to be on, on cost. It's going to be on kitchen table issues. It's going to be on corruption. And the one thing that I would say is, look, we don't have to win this 100 to 0. There are certainly Republicans that regardless of what happens in the state or in the country, they're going to continue to support and vote that direction. But all we have to do is just get one more vote than Ashley Hinson to be able to win this. And what I know is you've got 37% of the voters here in Iowa that are independents. And I've got a unique ability between my story, background, resume and my politics, focusing on the kitchen table issues, cost and corruption. As a common sense prairie populist that has a proven ability to be able to win these folks over. I know that Again, I represent two communities. Trump won Carter Lake by 18 points, won Council Bluffs by 10 points. I was able to win my district by nearly six points. I know that I have a unique ability to be able to, to connect with these people. And it's by focusing on the issues that apply to them. It's economic populism, it's prairie populism and not focusing so much on the kitchen table issues. They can bring up all these distractionary issues, but the reality is you can't lie to people when people are struggling just to afford groceries, just to pay their electric bill, can't keep food on the table and now can't keep gas in their tanks. And you are leading the nation in farm foreclosures and farmers all over the state, state. Tell me over and over and over what we feel is betrayal because Trump gives $20 billion to Argentina. Meanwhile, our Iowa farmers, soybean farmers, are upside down in their commodities prices. Iowans are ready for change in a

[Tim Miller]

real way on that immigration question, though. Look, man, I hear you. I hear everything you said. I worked for McCain's campaign in Iowa in 2008. And I remember being shocked as I was a kid from the Colorado suburbs. I liked McCain. Cause he was a moderate Republican. I was one of the guys you're trying to get in this election. Not anymore, but I was back then. And I went to this town hall. I think it was a Council Bluffs, actually, now that I think about it. And he does Q and A's. And it's like the first nine questions are about immigration. That doesn't make any sense to me why immigration was so important to Iowa voters. But it was important then and that was 18 years ago now. Crap, I'm getting old. You know, and like, now Ashley Hinton's using that same issue in an ad against you. So, like, how do you talk to Iowa voters about that issue? Because for whatever reason, they do seem to care about.

[Luke Russert]

About it.

[Josh Turek]

I mean, I, I certainly think that my voting record speaks to my ability to part ways with my, my party. I was one of three Democrats to vote for a bill here in Iowa to try to address immigration in, in a common sense way in lieu of any federal activity. And honestly, it shouldn't be addressed at the state level. But that's because of the failure of people like Ashley Henson being willing to do something about it. I also can talk about, about it on, in a personal way. I'm married to an immigrant. I've gone through the process and I say that if you have come here illegally, you've committed violent crimes, then you should no longer be here. I recognize that we need to have safe and secure borders, but we also need to have an easier pathway to citizenship for individuals that want to come here and work hard and make their communities better. You can have both. They're not mutually exclusive. And so I think talking about it in a common sense way is the way forward. Forward. I think that's where Iowans are. I think that's where Americans are.

[Tim Miller]

One other funny thing on the cultural question and hitch on a couple other issues is this guy Zach Lane wins the governor's race, it'll be Rob sand run against him, not you. I don't know anything about him. He comes out of nowhere. Turns out I think he is from Kansas until about two minutes ago. But I pull up his Twitter feed. I'm doing a deep dive, a personal deep dive, last night around midnight because I'm a sicko. And his Twitter bio is talking about how he wants to restore Iowa's culture and heritage. He's not even from. He lived in Kansas till two minutes ago. But that shows you what you're up against, right? I don't even know what that means. In the south, we know what it means when people say heritage, not hate. But what is he even talking about when he's talking about restoring culture and heritage? How do you respond to that?

[Josh Turek]

I don't know how to respond to that other than to say, if you want to restore Iowa to the way that we were, we were number one in public education and now we've preserved precipitously drop. So we need somebody that's going to actually go out there and fight for our public schools. And I believe public money belongs in public schools. We had vibrant rural communities that are being absolutely decimated because of bad federal policy. These rural communities are being hollowed out because we're only looking out for the billionaires and the large multinational corporations. We've done nothing on small businesses. These small communities have lost their pharmacies. They've lost their grocery stores. We're to close closing healthcare clinics all over the state because of Medicaid cuts, because of what Ashley Hansen has voted for there. And now we're even closing the public schools. These are the pillars of these rural communities. So if he's talking about bringing Iowa back, what we need is we need prairie populace like we had for 30 years with Senator Harkin and actually policies that are going to actually help the middle class that's being hollowed out and that's a livable wage, Affordable housing, affordable health care, drinkable water. Water addressing our cancer rates and addressing the corruption that we're seeing both at the state level and at the federal level.

[Tim Miller]

Let's talk about the drinkable water. That was a new one to me, my colleagues here, along with this focus groups. And I was listening to our Iowa focus groups for this interview, and several people brought up the cancer water in Iowa and it shows. You haven't been reading my Des Moines Register lately because that was a new one to me. What's happening with that? What is the concern and controversy around the water in Iowa?

[Josh Turek]

Yeah, well, we have the second highest rates of cancer behind only Kentucky. We put $0 essentially of state appropriation. Every single year I was in the legislature, I sponsored a bill to put $1 for every single Iowans to address this. With the big beautiful bill that Ashley Hinson supported, we ended up losing what little money that we had coming in to address the cancer crisis here in Iowa. $34 million. The cancer crisis has certainly touched my life deeply and personally. I lost my grandmother to pancreatic cancer. My father, because of exposure to age, has dealt with several bouts of cancer. And nearly the day that I launched this campaign, my sister got diagnosed with stage two breast cancer, has private insurance. And the private insurance basically said, you don't have enough cancer if you don't have stage three or stage four. We won't cover the PET scan to see if the cancer spread to other parts of your body. And so first and foremost, we need to return the funding that we lost. We also need to make sure that we've got guardrails on insurance companies because doctors should be siting care, not insurance companies. And then we have have to address the root cause of this cancer crisis, which is the water quality crisis. And we've got a nitrate level crisis. And we need to put more infrastructure to be able to address that. We need more incentives to our farmers. This is to prevent them from incentivize them from putting down fertilizer in the winter months, to incentivize them to put down cover crops, land barriers like a lot of states mandate. We certainly don't want to put any more financial barriers burden in onus because we're at risk of. I mean, we're really in a Farmageddon here. But we've got to address this nitrate level issue that we've got with our water quality because it is absolutely leading to our cancer rates. And this is what I want to fight for in the US Senate.

[Tim Miller]

Let's talk a little bit more about that Pharmageddon. This is something I've been reading a lot about, but I'm not out there. You're actually talking to these folks. A lot of discussion around the tariffs, obviously, but now the war in Iran has created increase in costs around fertilizer, which is going to affect Iowa. You mentioned the farm bankruptcies. I was reading also about suicides up in farm country. How are people being impacted directly on the ground? Is it the tariffs? Is it fertilizer? Give me some anecdotes about what you're

[Josh Turek]

hearing everywhere that I'm going. I mean, it is a scary place right now in time to be an Iowa farmer. It is. It's a farmageddon. It's a second, second farm crisis. We're hearing from farmers all across the state. I mean, what we hear is this is betrayal. And we'll hear this is just one gut punch after another. The first issue is, yes, absolutely, the tariffs have crushed our farmers. That's why we hear betrayal. Trump administration gives $20 billion to Argentina. Meanwhile, our Iowa soybean farmers are upside down on their commodities prices. But it's not just that. That's just the most recent issue issue. We've done nothing to address the monopolies that have led to input prices being basically doubled. The war in Iran has certainly led to increased cost in diesel fuel, but that's also led to increased cost on fertilizer. I mean, I was hearing over and over from farmers saying, I'm not even sure I'm going to be able to afford fertilizer. Meanwhile, as we're coming into planting season at the federal level, we haven't done anything.

[Tim Miller]

Is that right? So I was getting mixed reason. So when because some people are Saying like, ah, this isn't that big a deal right now because, because a lot of farmers pre buy their fertilizer, you know, but that's, but you are getting into fall planting season and I guess some of them hadn't. That's what you're hearing.

[Josh Turek]

I, I, that's, that's what I was hearing. I was hearing a significant amount of them were concerned about not even being able to, to afford any fertilizers. They were, they were going into planting season. They're all, I mean, also at the federal level. Look, look, we've done nothing on right to repair to allow farmers to actually be able to repair their equipment in a timely manner. I sponsored a bill in the Iowa legislature to address this at the state level in lieu of action at the federal level. We don't have mandatory of country of origin labeling on our beef producers. This is why we've lost 100,000 beef producers in this country over the last 10 years and we haven't passed a farm bill. And what I'd like to do, if I'm able to get up to the United States Senate is to put a mandate on Congress that when the five years is up to for a farm bill, that Congress is not able to adjourn without passing a farm bill. I mean, we have what Ashley Hinson and our Iowa delegation has not looked out for our rural communities or our farmers. And I think that they are waking up and they are ready for change. They are ready for a genuine common sense prairie populist like myself that is actually gonna look out for them, not just faux populism.

[Tim Miller]

I love the right to repair. That's a good one. That's a good populist issue. All right, man, I'm sure you've got other things to get to. Are you gonna have time to watch the NBA Finals tonight, do you think? Game one?

[Josh Turek]

I don't know. I would love to maybe on your

[Tim Miller]

phone for anybody while you're kind of

[Josh Turek]

for, for anybody, any, anybody out there. Look, I love Wim Banana. He, he's, I mean as a, is a, a longtime basketball player. He's such a unique individual. But I think basketball is at its best when the Mecca of basketball is rocking. And so I'm actually rooting for the Knicks to win for the first time since 73.

[Tim Miller]

Right. If you were going to model yourself, yourself, you know, from your wheelchair basketball career after, you know, one of the players in the NBA, is there somebody that you look to?

[Josh Turek]

I thought that I had a game that, that maybe somebody like A Carmelo Anthony. I was kind of a point forward. I was somebody that shot the ball a whole lot. I didn't have a whole lot of assist in college. I scored over 4000 career points. I led the leagues in scoring. I led the USA team in scoring. That was really my knack. I was great from the mid range. That was my, that was my strength.

[Tim Miller]

I love that mellow volume shooter. Maybe if tonight Jalen Brunson, maybe of the, of the guys playing tonight.

[Josh Turek]

That's right. Did a little more post up shooting than, than Jalen Brunson. But I like, I like, I love Jalen Brunson. I like the game and I'm looking forward to a good finals. San Antonio against New York. It's going to be a good one.

[Tim Miller]

All right man. Good luck out there on the campaign trail.

[Josh Turek]

Thank you. A for for anyone out there. Real quick. If you're interested, please join us. Turek Fouriowa Turek, the number four Iowa.com really do believe that this is a generational opportunity that we've got to be able to win this Senate seat back here. If we can win this Senate seat, I believe we can get to 51 in the US Senate. We can fundamentally change the state of Iowa and we can change this country. But we can only do it with your help.

[Tim Miller]

Good politician, good comms team. Remembering to do that. I usually remember to tee up the website, but as a former flag, but we were getting into, you know, once we got into basketball talk, it fluttered out of my mind.

[Josh Turek]

So hey, 10 months. I'm getting my reps, I'm getting my 10,000 hours.

[Tim Miller]

All right, buddy. I'm hoping to get up to Iowa in the fall so hopefully we'll have a chance to overlap in person. All right, good luck, Good luck on the campaign trail.

[Josh Turek]

Thank you.

[Tim Miller]

All right, thanks so much to Luke Russert and to Josh Turek. We'll be back, I think another doubleheader tomorrow. So it's going to be another good one. Hope to see you all then. Peace. You're hustling the millionaires for the every

[Josh Turek]

extra points in beside the stars

[Tim Miller]

with red hands pointing up It's a lonely

[Josh Turek]

door you're behind Johnny is not too far.

[Tim Miller]

The Borg podcast is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper and with video editing by Katie Lutz and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.