The Bulwark Podcast: Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly – “Dirty Little Secret”
Release Date: January 15, 2025
Introduction and Context
In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a deep and critical conversation with former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger and Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. The discussion centers around the recent Pam Bondi confirmation hearings, the nomination of Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense, and broader concerns within the Republican Party and U.S. political landscape.
Adam Kinzinger’s Commentary
Timestamp: 00:08 – 42:48
Critique of Nancy Mace and Republican Oversight
Adam Kinzinger opens the conversation by expressing disappointment over the Republican senators' handling of Nancy Mace during the Pam Bondi hearings. He criticizes Mace for her inconsistent stance and perceived shift from moderation to a more aggressive political stance.
Adam Kinzinger [03:19]: “Either somebody has a complete actual change in what they believe, or they were just a con artist from the beginning.”
Kinzinger also reflects on the broader failure of Republican senators to maintain serious oversight, suggesting that instead of holding nominees accountable, they focus on ingratiating themselves with them for future favors.
Adam Kinzinger [09:11]: “They all knew that Hegseth was going to get confirmed. So now they have to be, and I like, I know this is a former member, you instead go from asking serious questions then to, how do I kiss his ass?”
Concerns Over Pete Hegseth’s Nomination
Kinzinger is highly critical of Pete Hegseth’s qualifications and suitability for the role of Secretary of Defense. He highlights Hegseth’s lack of substantial military or defense experience and his tendency to side with partisan interests over national security.
Adam Kinzinger [17:55]: “Donald Trump doesn't want people to think he's unpredictable because he doesn't know if he likes our enemies or our friends. It's all about what makes him feel good at the moment.”
Joe Kent’s Nomination and Elon Musk’s Influence
The conversation shifts to the nomination of Joe Kent as the head of the National Counterterrorism Center. Kinzinger condemns Kent’s far-right affiliations and conspiracy theories, questioning his mental fitness for a critical national security position.
Adam Kinzinger [28:30]: “This guy is like, I'm not going to say neo Nazi, but as close as you can get to that without being labeled, that is about what he is.”
Kinzinger also expresses concern over Elon Musk’s potential influence within the government, fearing Musk’s unpredictable actions could have global repercussions.
Adam Kinzinger [32:31]: “Elon Musk is the most powerful man in the world right now. That is a massive concern to me because it's not like he's even thinking rationally.”
Personal Heroism and Recognition
Kinzinger shares a personal story about intervening in a deadly knife attack in Milwaukee in 2006, for which he received the Airman’s Medal. He reflects on the emotional impact of being recognized by the victim years later.
Adam Kinzinger [40:17]: “I ended up beating him and disarming him to save her life. She got 70 stitches in her neck, and I got the Airman's Medal.”
Mark Kelly’s Commentary
Timestamp: 43:29 – 61:24
Evaluation of Pete Hegseth’s Qualifications
Senator Mark Kelly provides a detailed critique of Pete Hegseth’s suitability for the role of Secretary of Defense. He emphasizes the gravity of the position and the necessity for unwavering competence and integrity.
Mark Kelly [48:08]: “If he messes it up, he puts people's lives in danger or he could wind up screwing up some acquisition program.”
Kelly is particularly concerned about Hegseth’s inability to provide clear answers during the hearings, viewing it as indicative of a reluctance to challenge unlawful or harmful orders.
Mark Kelly [54:39]: “If he gets to the job, we're going to all understand that he is going to be very reluctant to push back.”
Criticism of Republican Handling and Future Implications
Kelly criticizes his Republican colleagues for their abbreviated and superficial approach to the confirmation hearings, arguing that such behavior undermines the serious nature of the Department of Defense role.
Mark Kelly [51:12]: “The seriousness of this hearing and the consequences of this hearing were such that we did ahead of time talk about it, sort of come up with a plan.”
Concerns Over Tulsi Gabbard’s Confirmation
Looking ahead, Kelly discusses the upcoming confirmation of Tulsi Gabbard for the DNI position, raising concerns about her stance on intelligence practices and misinformation.
Mark Kelly [55:36]: “Her predilection to go down the rabbit hole of misinformation puts all of us at risk.”
Kelly highlights Gabbard’s contradictory positions, especially regarding FISA and her views on Edward Snowden, questioning her ability to manage conflicting intelligence information effectively.
Closing Remarks and Future Outlook
Both Kinzinger and Kelly express a somber outlook on the current state of the Republican Party, fearing that its current trajectory under Trump could lead to significant instability and deviation from traditional conservative principles.
Adam Kinzinger [36:22]: “There's no principles in the Republican Party. It's literally a party of one man... it’s a party that eventually does completely change its stripes.”
Mark Kelly [57:11]: “The biggest issue I think I have with Congressman Gabbard is just this predilection to go down the rabbit hole of misinformation.”
Conclusion
The episode provides a critical examination of current political dynamics, particularly focusing on the Republican Party’s handling of key defense nominations and the broader implications for U.S. national security. Adam Kinzinger and Mark Kelly offer insights into the challenges posed by partisan behavior, inadequate vetting processes, and the potential risks of appointing unqualified individuals to pivotal government positions. Their discussion underscores the urgent need for accountability and a return to principled governance to safeguard the nation’s interests.
Notable Quotes
- Adam Kinzinger [03:19]: “Either somebody has a complete actual change in what they believe, or they were just a con artist from the beginning.”
- Adam Kinzinger [09:11]: “They all knew that Hegseth was going to get confirmed. So now they have to be... how do I kiss his ass?”
- Adam Kinzinger [17:55]: “Donald Trump doesn't want people to think he's unpredictable... it's all about what makes him feel good at the moment.”
- Mark Kelly [48:08]: “If he messes it up, he puts people's lives in danger...”
- Mark Kelly [54:39]: “If he gets to the job, ... he is going to be very reluctant to push back.”
Final Thoughts
This episode offers a critical lens on the intersection of politics and national security, emphasizing the importance of integrity and competency in high-stakes government roles. For listeners interested in the inner workings of political oversight and the ramifications of partisan appointments, this episode provides valuable perspectives and thought-provoking critiques.