The Bulwark Podcast: Adam Kinzinger and Pat Ryan - "Bring It On"

Release Date: December 11, 2024

In this engaging and insightful episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller sits down with former GOP Congressman Adam Kinzinger and current Congressman Pat Ryan to discuss pressing political issues, recent events, and their visions for the future of the Republican Party. The conversation delves into topics ranging from the aftermath of the January 6th Committee investigations to strategies for combating political violence and redefining populism within the party.

1. Adam Kinzinger’s Stand Against Trump

Kinzinger’s Defiance: Adam Kinzinger opens the discussion by addressing the allegations against him orchestrated by then-President Donald Trump. Kinzinger exhibits unwavering resolve, stating:

“As I said, bring it, just bring it. I mean, really, come on, like just throw me in jail for something you make up. Let's see what happens at that point.” (00:26)

He criticizes Trump’s tactics, emphasizing that fabricated charges will only draw more attention and support for his cause.

House Republicans’ Reactions: Kinzinger discusses recent interactions with House Republicans regarding Trump’s calls for imprisoning January 6th Committee members. He highlights the lack of unified support among his colleagues, noting:

“Now, we know they've manipulated evidence. So if that's the case, then absolutely.” — Tim Burchett (00:48)

He expresses disappointment that many Republicans either failed to support him or did so ambiguously.

2. The January 6th Committee and Manipulated Evidence

Kinzinger’s Critique: Kinzinger vehemently denies any wrongdoing by the January 6th Committee, clarifying:

“The January 6th committee threw nobody in prison, is that right? Was the Department of Justice right?” (01:41)

He refutes claims that the committee manipulated evidence, directing listeners to official sources for transparency.

Response to Trump’s Claims: Addressing Trump’s accusations about evidence deletion, Kinzinger states:

“There was no evidence deleted. And in fact, if you go on, if you just type in January 6th committee evidence, govinfo.gov has all of the evidence that we collected...” (02:03)

He criticizes the administration’s handling of misinformation and stresses the importance of holding accountable those who fabricate narratives.

3. Preemptive Pardons and Political Intimidation

Discussion on Pardons: Tim Miller raises concerns about Trump’s potential use of pardons to shield allies, prompting Kinzinger to weigh the pros and cons:

“Some folks are wondering, well, why not just go ahead and do it?... On the other hand, there's a lot of people that feel like, listen, if you get, if I accept a pardon, then that is in essence saying I'm guilty of something.” (03:48)

Kinzinger emphasizes that accepting pardons implies guilt, a stance many of his constituents share.

Fear and Authoritarianism: Kinzinger advises those targeted by threats not to display fear, explaining:

“If you get, if I accept a pardon, then that is in essence saying I'm guilty of something... We are encouraging them to keep using it.” (05:29)

He underscores the tactic of instilling fear as a tool of authoritarian control, urging resilience and transparency.

4. Matt Gaetz’s Career Shift

Gaetz’s Move to One America News: The conversation shifts to Matt Gaetz’s recent career move to join One America News (OAN), viewed by Kinzinger as a step down:

“Matt, you know what? Like, you're going to go there and literally have tens of viewers every night that are watching you.” (10:23)

Kinzinger criticizes Gaetz’s decision, suggesting it diminishes his political potential and labels his platform as fringe.

Impact on Republican Image: Kinzinger reflects on Gaetz’s earlier ambitions and implies that his choices reflect poorly on the party’s image:

“This shows how far, honestly. And I mean, this, somebody with his talent could have been a generational kind of politician if he'd have done this the right way.” (11:07)

5. Concerns Over DOJ Nominee Cash Patel

Potential Threats to Justice: Kinzinger voices significant concerns about Cash Patel’s potential role within the Department of Justice, comparing him to infamous figures like J. Edgar Hoover:

“Cash Patel will be seen in history as in terms of being an arm of the president to go after his political enemies.” (14:28)

He warns about Patel’s capacity to undermine the FBI’s bipartisan credibility and the broader implications for American democracy.

Intimidation Tactics: Discussing Patel’s approach, Kinzinger explains how aggressive legal strategies can intimidate opponents:

“The legal bills were approaching 50 to $100,000 just to be well represented, to testify to a grand jury once. So you think about if you want...” (15:30)

6. Tulsi Gabbard’s Nomination and Syria Policy

Kinzinger on Tulsi Gabbard: Kinzinger criticizes Tulsi Gabbard’s stance on Syria, highlighting her alignment with authoritarian regimes:

“Tulsi has accused Ukraine of these bio labs, which is another direct Kremlin talking point, which is completely untrue.” (21:22)

He expresses concern over her potential influence over intelligence agencies, fearing compromised national security.

Syria’s Current Situation: Kinzinger shares his firsthand experiences and observations on Syria, emphasizing the ongoing challenges and human impact:

“It’s really heartbreaking to see the human impact of it.” (28:14)

He underscores the complexity of the Syrian conflict and the critical role of American intervention.

7. Pat Ryan’s Election Victory and Strategy

Dominant Win: Congressman Pat Ryan discusses his significant victory in New York's 18th congressional district, outperforming expectations by over 13%:

“We worked really hard to win by a little bit more this time, and we did really well.” (34:55)

Ryan attributes his success to grassroots efforts and a focus on constituent needs over partisan politics.

Campaign Strategy: Ryan emphasizes the importance of addressing local issues and distancing from national party failures:

“Being a different kind of Democrat, calling out Biden on the border, calling for him to step aside...” (35:32)

He advocates for independent thinking and direct engagement with voters to build trust.

8. Redefining Populism and Combating Political Violence

Constructive Populism: Ryan outlines his vision for a "patriotic populism" that balances fighting for constituents with genuine care and empathy:

“It's about fighting from a place of giving a shit and being a compassionate person and core human.” (45:06)

He contrasts this with the destructive tactics of Trump, advocating for unity and collective good.

Addressing Political Violence: The discussion addresses the rise in political violence, attributing it to systemic failures and lack of effective democratic channels:

“People are so frustrated and the system's failing to meet those frustrations... you get horrific, violent outcomes.” (45:11)

Ryan stresses the need for the political system to provide legitimate avenues for change to prevent such violence.

9. Opportunities for Republican Outreach

Engaging Younger Audiences: Both Kinzinger and Ryan highlight the necessity of connecting with younger demographics through relatable and authentic communication:

“We have a lot of younger, newer House members that are like just real people... who could go talk sports, talk culture...” (62:05)

They advocate for showcasing genuine personalities to broaden the party’s appeal.

Strategic Legislative Focus: Ryan discusses prioritizing issues that directly impact constituents, such as fairness in tax policies and combating corporate malfeasance:

“It's about picking very strategic fights that are rooted in what people are and what they want us to fight for.” (49:16)

He emphasizes actionable solutions over protective stances on broader party ideologies.

10. Concluding Insights

Commitment to Patriotism and Good Governance: Both guests reiterate their dedication to serving the American people with integrity, advocating for accountability, and restoring bipartisan trust within institutions.

Final Remarks: The episode concludes with a light-hearted exchange and a focus on ongoing efforts to strengthen the Republican Party’s foundation against internal and external challenges.

Notable Quotes

• Adam Kinzinger:

  “The Jan 6th committee threw nobody in prison... you just make them up.” (01:41)

• Pat Ryan:

  “It's absolutely 100,000% unacceptable to use violence, political violence, to obviously commit murder regardless of anything.” (44:48)

• Adam Kinzinger:

  “America is not going to stand for an abuse of the legal system like that.” (06:00)

• Pat Ryan:

  “It's about fighting from a place of giving a shit and being a compassionate person and core human.” (45:06)

Key Takeaways

• Resistance to Authoritarianism: Both Kinzinger and Ryan emphasize the importance of standing against authoritarian tactics and restoring integrity within governmental institutions.

• Grassroots Engagement: Effective communication and direct engagement with constituents are crucial for building trust and achieving electoral success.

• Strategic Populism: Advocating for a form of populism that balances strength with empathy can help redefine the party’s image and appeal to a broader electorate.

• Accountability in Leadership: The selection of qualified and principled individuals for key positions is essential to safeguarding democracy and ensuring effective governance.

This episode provides a comprehensive look into the current challenges and strategic approaches within the Republican Party, highlighting the voices of those committed to defending liberal democracy and fostering a more unified and principled political landscape.

Time Stamps:

• 00:26 - Kinzinger’s Defiance against Trump
• 01:41 - January 6th Committee Discussions
• 03:48 - Preemptive Pardons Debate
• 05:29 - Authoritarian Fear Tactics
• 10:23 - Matt Gaetz’s Career Move
• 11:07 - Impact on GOP Image
• 14:28 - Concerns Over Cash Patel
• 15:30 - Legal Intimidation Tactics
• 21:22 - Tulsi Gabbard’s Nomination
• 28:14 - Syria’s Human Impact
• 34:55 - Pat Ryan’s Election Victory
• 35:32 - Campaign Strategy
• 44:48 - Condemning Political Violence
• 45:06 - Constructive Populism
• 49:16 - Strategic Legislative Focus
• 62:05 - Engaging Younger Audiences

Note: This summary intentionally omits advertising segments and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions between the guests.