The Bulwark Podcast — Adam Kinzinger: Don't Feed the Dictator
Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Adam Kinzinger (former Republican congressman, founder of Country First, retired Air National Guard pilot)
Main Theme:
The episode explores the current state of American democracy, the threat of authoritarianism posed by Trump and his allies, Republican complacency, the ongoing war in Ukraine, the politicization of the National Guard, and what Democrats should do in response. The show blends pointed satire with somber warnings, insights from inside the Republican Party, and practical recommendations for the pro-democracy coalition.
1. False Accusations and Conspiracies Against Kinzinger
Timestamps: 00:43–03:25
- The podcast kicks off with a satirical riff on a fake news report claiming that Adam Kinzinger is under FBI investigation for supposed illicit funds tied to his January 6th committee work.
- Kinzinger jokes about the absurdity:
"If I had $108 million, I would be in an island right now…$108 million would allow me to walk away from [politics]." — Adam Kinzinger [01:31]
- The group mocks the proliferation of conspiracy theories and how people are quick to believe random accusations.
- Kinzinger notes how these narratives lead to personal threats, dismissing their seriousness but expressing frustration at the culture of intimidation.
- Kinzinger jokes about the absurdity:
2. Why Republican Lawmakers Won’t Stand Up Against Trump
Timestamps: 03:32–08:27
- Miller and Kinzinger discuss excuses GOP leaders make for not opposing Trump, including personal safety concerns.
- Kinzinger is unsparing in his criticism:
"Not only are you part of the problem, you are absolutely weak. And go find a different job…If your concern truly is like, gosh, I don't want death threats, and so going to vote this way to make Trump happy..." — Adam Kinzinger [04:27]
- Kinzinger contrasts the risks American politicians face with those taken by public servants in countries with genuine threats of violence or assassination.
- He emphasizes legacy and personal morality:
"At the end of your life…what do these people think they're going to think of themselves?" [05:38]
- He notes his own uncommon last name and the impossibility of hiding from history, underscoring the need for personal courage.
3. Generational Accountability and Compartmentalization
Timestamps: 06:00–08:27
- Miller and Kinzinger reflect on how future generations will judge today's political decisions, particularly in light of January 6th.
- Kinzinger notes the fear among lawmakers of being ostracized by their political "tribe":
"You can almost get no senators or congressmen to turn against their tribe. I think people fear being excommunicated from their tribe more than they fear even death." — Adam Kinzinger [08:20]
4. Ukraine, Security Guarantees, and Trump’s Russia Policy
Timestamps: 10:37–21:08
- Discussion moves to the Russia-Ukraine war and the efficacy of proposed "security guarantees" for Ukraine.
- Kinzinger eviscerates Trump's approach as both weak and self-serving:
"Donald Trump said to Vladimir Putin, here's my red line. Okay, never mind, I'm going to cross it…He emasculates himself on TV in front of the world." — Adam Kinzinger [11:13]
- On the substance of security guarantees:
"Ukraine had a security guarantee in 1994…With a security guarantee. Obviously, that wasn't done. So…the question is, is there a point of a security guarantee? Maybe. I have a hard time believing that's going to happen." — Adam Kinzinger [12:37]
- Critiques Ben Shapiro's characterization of Trump's Ukraine strategy as a "masterstroke":
"If there was an Article 5 type security guarantee, that would be…a masterstroke…But for us to say it's a masterstroke for Ukraine to give away their land for a security guarantee…It's at best a truce. At worst, it's a defeat by Ukraine." — Adam Kinzinger [14:28]
- Kinzinger and Miller call out the absurdity of U.S. politicians minimizing what’s at stake for Ukraine, likening the loss of Donetsk to the U.S. losing east Florida.
5. Understanding Security Guarantees and Putin’s Endgame
Timestamps: 18:38–21:08
- Miller pushes on the vagaries of "security guarantees" and why Putin would ever accept arrangements similar to NATO protections for Ukraine.
- Kinzinger outlines the pitfalls:
"Ukraine…is going to need to see something on paper. Do you think Vladimir Putin will get there? I don't think so. Unless Vladimir Putin knows he is going to lose and this is the only way to prevent…a counteroffensive…" — Adam Kinzinger [20:00]
- Rebuilding and reinvestment in Ukraine is impossible without real guarantees; otherwise, investors will flee, prolonging poverty and migration.
6. National Guard: Politicization and Risks
Timestamps: 24:34–32:14
- Criticism of the use of National Guard deployments for political theater—states sending National Guard to D.C. at Trump’s behest.
- Kinzinger, himself a former Air National Guard pilot, explains the Guard’s dual state/federal role and how politicization undermines morale and recruitment:
"You've taken a military force that usually has 90% approval by the American public, and you've made it partisan…Trump is doing everything he can to destroy that." — Adam Kinzinger [27:59]
- Concerns about red and blue states creating their own partisan forces ("a red army, a blue army") and implications for election integrity.
- Kinzinger warns about voter intimidation if Guardsmen are posted near polling stations:
"Is having a couple of military guys at the polling station going to encourage [marginalized communities] to go vote or will they just take a pass that day? That's the kind of voter suppression thing I think we should worry about a little bit." — Adam Kinzinger [31:45]
7. Trump’s “MAGA Communism” & Government Control of Industry
Timestamps: 32:14–36:57
- Miller details Trump administration plans to take a 10% stake in Intel, with government pressure on other firms to use its chips.
- Kinzinger compares the policy to socialist and authoritarian models:
"This is the federal government having a significant seat on the board of private companies. And that is no different than what you see in at least socialism. Right. Real socialist countries." — Adam Kinzinger [33:12]
- Points out GOP hypocrisy—Obama’s smaller green energy investments were attacked as anti-capitalist, while Trump’s far bolder moves get a pass.
8. What Should Democrats Do? Messaging & Oversight
Timestamps: 37:00–43:46
- Kinzinger criticizes congressional Democrats for lacking coordinated, impactful messaging and not seizing visual moments to challenge Trump (e.g., during the DOJ transition).
- He suggests bold, aggressive oversight tactics, referencing Republican Tea Party years as a model:
"You have to do that every day…it's all about visual. It's all…about street fighting…Where is that moment with the Democrats? This is the worst bill to ever pass the House of Representatives. And I don't see it." — Adam Kinzinger [38:23]
- Strongly urges Democrats to proactively warn foreign governments and businesses not to participate in Trump-era corruption, hinting at consequences if/when Democrats are back in power.
9. Fiscal Irresponsibility and Ballooning Deficits
Timestamps: 43:53–46:12
- The hosts address the massive growth in U.S. debt under Trump, now surpassing 120% of GDP.
- Kinzinger is blunt about the damage:
"Republicans are not the party of fiscal responsibility and I would certainly encourage Democrats…be the party of fiscal responsibility and you can do that through increased revenue." — Adam Kinzinger [45:22]
- Describes how tariffs are further hurting long-term prospects for sustainable budgets.
10. Lighter Segment: Pull-Ups, Rumors, and Gossip
Timestamps: 46:17–52:26
- Humorous critique of Secretary of Defense Pete Buttigieg’s pull-up technique versus RFK Jr.:
"If you do underhand pull ups, that's what the girls are allowed to do. The guys do overhand pull ups…he's like hoinking around his legs…" — Adam Kinzinger [46:28]
- Jokes about DC gossip—MAGA figures in the closet, past rumors involving Aaron Schock, and the imperative of authenticity:
"All of us wear masks to some extent. And it's like all that does…it's destructive…The more masks you can take off, the better." — Adam Kinzinger [52:12]
11. Exit Interview: De-Radicalization and Community (Jason Riddle Story)
Timestamps: 52:26–55:57
- Kinzinger discusses his interview with Jason Riddle, a January 6th participant who left MAGA behind after jail and sobriety.
- Key insight: The MAGA movement is more about belonging and community than policy.
"What drives people to MAGA is isolation and loneliness, and it gives him a sense of purpose." — Adam Kinzinger [55:10]
- Kinzinger urges those outside the MAGA world to “embrace [ex-MAGA] in community,” and not reject defectors due to their past.
Notable Quotes
-
"If your concern truly is like, gosh, I don't want death threats, and so going to vote this way to make Trump happy...Not only are you part of the problem, you are absolutely weak. And go find a different job."
— Adam Kinzinger [04:27] -
"You can almost get no senators or congressmen to turn against their tribe. I think people fear being excommunicated from their tribe more than they fear even death."
— Adam Kinzinger [08:20] -
"Donald Trump said to Vladimir Putin, here's my red line. Okay, never mind…He emasculates himself on TV in front of the world."
— Adam Kinzinger [11:13] -
"You’ve taken a military force that usually has 90% approval by the American public, and you've made it partisan....Trump is doing everything he can to destroy that."
— Adam Kinzinger [27:59] -
"This is the federal government having a significant seat on the board of private companies. And that is no different than what you see in at least socialism."
— Adam Kinzinger [33:12] -
"What drives people to MAGA is isolation and loneliness, and it gives him a sense of purpose."
— Adam Kinzinger [55:10]
Segment Timestamps
- 00:43–03:25: Satire of fake allegations against Kinzinger
- 03:32–08:27: Cowardice among GOP, fear vs. legacy
- 10:37–21:08: Ukraine, Trump’s Russia policy, the reality of “security guarantees”
- 24:34–32:14: National Guard politicization and voter intimidation concerns
- 32:14–36:57: “MAGA communism”—Government equity in Intel, authoritarian threats
- 37:00–43:46: Messaging missteps and oversight: what Democrats should do
- 43:53–46:12: U.S. debt, fiscal hypocrisy, tariff damage
- 46:17–52:26: Pull-up critique, closeted MAGA gossip, authenticity
- 52:26–55:57: De-radicalization (Jason Riddle), belonging as MAGA’s true draw
Summary Takeaways
- GOP lawmakers’ cowardice is less about personal safety and more about tribal loyalty and fear of ostracism.
- Trump’s foreign policy is both strategic and dangerously erratic, especially concerning Ukraine/Russia.
- The politicization of nonpartisan institutions, especially the National Guard, is a dangerous trend that threatens election integrity and military morale.
- Democrats must act more aggressively, using oversight and clear messaging, especially about corruption and Trump’s threats to democracy.
- The U.S. is moving towards a dangerous blend of crony capitalism and state intervention that betrays Republican rhetoric about free markets.
- The most effective way to de-radicalize ex-MAGA supporters is to offer genuine community and belonging, not scorn.
This episode features candid, sometimes darkly humorous analysis of trends threatening American democracy, along with a passionate plea for principle and authentic public service.