Podcast Summary: "Adam Kinzinger: Trump Has Never Seemed this Scared"

The Bulwark Podcast • Host: Tim Miller • Guest: Adam Kinzinger
Date: November 21, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller is joined by former Congressman, Air Force veteran, and January 6th Committee member Adam Kinzinger, whose recent documentary "The Last Republican" profiles his career and break with the GOP over Donald Trump. The conversation covers current political controversies (Trump’s sedition rhetoric, the Epstein files, MAGA infighting), the state of the economy, Illinois political shenanigans, and reflections on Republican and Democratic leadership. The tone is candid, sharp, and occasionally irreverent, with both participants offering insider perspective and moments of biting humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cheney Funeral and Reflections on Decency (02:05–03:00)

• Adam and Tim open with a conversation about attending Dick Cheney’s funeral, highlighting moments of humor and reflection on bipartisanship.
• Kinzinger remarks on the sense of respect—even from critics of Cheney—contrasted to today’s polarization.

  “There’s like, the left, the center, and the right… all coming together to celebrate this man’s life. And then seeing the contrast when I got cell phone reception that Donald Trump's calling for execution, it is just… a perfect kind of example, visual example of how far we've fallen.” – Adam Kinzinger (05:15)

2. Trump’s Escalating Rhetoric and the ‘Illegal Orders’ Debate (03:00–10:33)

• Trump responded to Democratic veterans who urged service members to refuse illegal orders by calling them seditious, pushing for punishment by death.
• Adam’s Perspective:
  • The veterans’ message is foundational: “military members should refuse illegal orders. That's basic Constitution.”
  • Concern about the burden placed on low-level soldiers: Only truly egregious illegal orders (e.g., being told to fire on civilians) should spark refusal.

    “It is the responsibility of your high ranking officers… Where your responsibility comes in as an individual member is if you get an order to shoot an American citizen.” – Adam Kinzinger (07:14)

• Tim notes Fox News prefers this battleground, seeing it as favorable ground for Trump.

3. Trump’s Mental State and "Cornered" Behavior (08:22–10:33)

• Discussion about Trump’s increasingly hostile outbursts ("Quiet Piggy" remarks, calls for execution, etc).

  “He feels cornered. This is the first time probably every Republican has voted against him on something… He's obviously afraid of it coming out… This is a trajectory of self-destruction or fear.” – Adam Kinzinger (09:05)

• Both note Trump’s emotional volatility is unusually acute, possibly due to political setbacks and new threats.

4. Epstein Files, Ghislaine Maxwell, and Corruption (12:52–18:51)

• The upcoming release of the Epstein files and Ghislaine Maxwell’s special treatment fuels speculation about what leverage she may hold over Trump.

  “She’s going to get a commutation or a pardon… Unless you have an affection for child sex traffickers, the only reason is because you’re protecting yourself.” – Adam Kinzinger (14:46)

• Debate over Trump’s memory of his Epstein ties and the ongoing right-wing media defense.
• Kinzinger laments the transformation of figures like Megyn Kelly:

  “What I can’t take are people that know better… like a Mike Johnson, like a Megyn Kelly… She is now maybe the money is so good that she has to try to out-crazy everybody else…” (18:02)

5. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Alleged "Pivot" and MAGA Dynamics (18:51–24:10)

• Tim and Adam dissect Marjorie Taylor Greene’s apparent break with Trump, debating sincerity.

  “I think with Marjorie Taylor Greene, I think it’s all a scam.… She could see the tea leaves, which is like, Trump is going away. If I want to run for president or governor or whatever, I’m going to have to be the former crazy that now is normal.” – Adam Kinzinger (19:46)

• They agree: Appreciate her tactical chaos but don’t believe she’s reformed.

  “Let’s appreciate the thing she says. Let’s honor the things she says. But let’s not believe it.” – Adam Kinzinger (23:56)

6. Illinois Political Shenanigans: Chewy Garcia Successor Saga (25:15–29:32)

• Tim details the process by which outgoing Rep. Garcia’s chief of staff secured the ballot—locking out competition.

  “This happens all the time in Illinois… You just hand-pick your successor because probably what happened, the chief of staff literally was at the state Board of Elections probably one minute before filing closed and turned it in…” – Adam Kinzinger (27:34)

• Both decry Democratic entitlement and the hypocrisy given the party’s pro-democracy rhetoric.

7. Corruption, Betting Markets, and MAGA Grift (36:19–44:19)

• Discussion of the economic situation ("rickety economy" supported by industries like healthcare, cryptocurrency, and private prisons).
• Adam flags the danger of unregulated prediction/betting markets tied to political events.

  “If you’re that member of Congress… Let’s say Adam Kinzinger is still in and I can go vote on Adam Kinzinger. And let's say the odds are 97% that I'm going to vote yes, but I put a thousand dollars on 3% that I'm going to vote no, and then I vote no. Like, guarantee you that stuff’s happening, Tim.” (39:32)

• The Trump family’s alleged involvement in betting markets and crypto ventures is flagged as ripe for investigation by a potential Democratic Congress.
• Adam stresses the importance of "getting this stuff out there" to deter future corruption (43:32).

8. Economy Watch & Christmas Under Trump (44:50–46:36)

• Noting bleak private-sector jobs data, the panelist point to cracks in the economy: “taking care of old people, cryptocurrency, AI data centers and private prisons holding up our rickety economy.”
• Fox News is mocked for suggesting Americans cut Christmas giving.

  “Isn’t Christmas supposed to be about sharing and joy?… Didn’t the liberals kill Christmas in the past and now it’s the right trying to kill Christmas?” – Adam Kinzinger (46:38)

9. Texas Senate Race & Democratic Strategy (46:38–49:53)

• Discussion of the Texas Senate Democratic primary, with Adam expressing concern over progressive messaging (e.g., on religion and LGBTQ issues) in a conservative state.
• Jasmine Crockett and other possible Democratic contenders are assessed for charisma and genuineness.

10. "The Last Republican" Documentary & Being on Camera (49:53–52:44)

• Adam pitches his new documentary, emphasizing its inside look at January 6th and his personal journey.
• He and Tim trade notes on learning to relax amid constant filming.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the contrast between political eras:

  "It was a perfect kind of... visual example of how far we've fallen." – Adam Kinzinger (05:15)

• On Trump’s mindset:

  “I've never seen him this scared.” – Adam Kinzinger (16:50)

• On Marjorie Taylor Greene's shift:

  "Let's honor the chaos and not believe it." – Adam Kinzinger (24:08)

• On Illinois machine politics:

  "This is not a democracy. This is not an English lordship. You get to pass down the seat to your nephew if you want to." – Tim Miller (29:09)

• On prediction markets and corruption:

  "We're going to find out that there are members of Congress betting on their own actions. ... That is corrupt." – Adam Kinzinger (42:21)

• On Christmas austerity under Trump:

  “Christmas is under attack from all sides, Tim. … There’s a war.” – Adam Kinzinger (46:21)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:05–03:00] – Remembering Dick Cheney’s funeral and political decency
• [03:00–10:33] – Trump’s sedition rhetoric and the debate over illegal orders in the military
• [08:22–10:33] – Trump’s volatile emotional state and political fears
• [12:52–18:51] – Epstein files, Maxwell’s possible leverage, and the media’s defense
• [18:51–24:10] – Marjorie Taylor Greene’s pivot and MAGA drama
• [25:15–29:32] – Chewy Garcia succession scandal and Illinois political culture
• [36:19–44:19] – Economy, betting markets, and the Trump family’s businesses
• [44:50–46:36] – Christmas under Trump and Fox News economic talking points
• [46:38–49:53] – Texas Senate race, candidate strengths and weaknesses
• [49:53–52:44] – Adam’s documentary, "The Last Republican," and being filmed

Tone and Style

The episode is marked by a combination of deep political pessimism, dark humor, and a sense of urgency about corruption and democracy’s health. Adam’s candor and willingness to criticize both parties is central, alongside Tim’s sardonic wit and detail-oriented questioning.

Conclusion

This Bulwark episode delivers a brisk, unvarnished look at the most recent crises and absurdities in American politics. If you want to understand why ex-GOP stalwarts like Kinzinger have changed course, how Trumpworld continues to bend reality, and why institutional rot persists on both sides, this conversation delivers insights and plenty of memorable one-liners. The episode caps with a pitch for Kinzinger’s documentary and a hopeful call for accountability and democratic renewal.