Podcast Summary: The Bulwark Podcast
Episode: Adam Kinzinger: We Can’t Be Intimidated
Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Adam Kinzinger (Former U.S. Representative, Founder of Country First)
Episode Overview
This episode dives into the latest developments in the political landscape, with a focus on the indictment of James Comey and the broader implications for democratic norms under the current Trump administration. Tim Miller and Adam Kinzinger discuss legal intimidation tactics, double standards in justice, the erosion of institutional trust, concerns about creeping authoritarianism, and strategies for political resistance. The conversation ranges from serious warnings to the importance of resisting fear with humor and resilience, while touching on veterans’ experiences in politics, military loyalty tests, and the future of accountability in America.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. James Comey’s Indictment: Political Retribution and Intimidation
[00:52–07:04]
- Background: James Comey was indicted in what Tim calls a “revenge indictment,” following the firing of his daughter from DOJ and a U.S. attorney who refused to prosecute him.
- Nature of Charges: Based on Comey’s 2020 congressional testimony regarding the Russia probe—accused of lying about authorizing an FBI source.
- Statute of Limitations: Indictment jammed through just before it expired, raising questions about prosecutorial motives.
- Kinzinger’s Take:
“There’s nothing illegal about that... If we started prosecuting everybody that’s told a white lie or a red lie to Congress... there’d be nothing else in the Justice Department.” —Adam Kinzinger [02:31]
“This is clearly, you know, meant to intimidate.” —Adam Kinzinger [02:47] - On the Justice System: Kinzinger points out the severe difficulty in proving perjury, emphasizing that the process is “set up to benefit the prosecution,” yet even this DOJ failed to get one of the three grand jury counts.
- Comey Statement:
Played in full [04:36], Comey says:“Fear is the tool of a tyrant... But I’m not afraid, and I hope you’re not either.” —James Comey [05:04]
- Public Posture: Both Miller and Kinzinger praise Comey’s resolve and stress the need for targets of intimidation to stand up publicly, not disappear.
“When you become quiet, it appears to everybody else... that Trump or the Justice Department has won... Whereas if you stand firm... it gives backbone to other people.” —Adam Kinzinger [06:01]
2. Double Standards, Legal Hypocrisy, and the Cycle of Accountability
[07:04–11:06]
- Selective Prosecution: Discussion of contemporaneous examples where “Trumpworld” figures appear to have perjured themselves without consequence.
- Kinzinger’s Evolution: Initially wanted to restore “norms,” but now believes serious violations (like perjury, constitutional crimes) must be prosecuted to break the cycle of revenge politics.
“Maybe they actually should have hung some of these Confederate generals... There should have been some accountability because the Confederacy lived on.” —Adam Kinzinger [09:31]
- Future Accountability:
“If the Democrats come in and say, ‘Okay, we forgive again,’ there’s going to be another Trump... there’s got to be some accountability.” —Adam Kinzinger [10:05]
3. Mockery and Satire as Political Tools
[34:26–38:41]
- Minimizing the Tyrant:
Both note that fear-based warnings sometimes backfire by energizing the right. Instead, satire and mockery—pointing out Trump’s insecurities and weaknesses—can be more effective in undermining his influence.“When you minimize him and you make him small... that actually does more to fight back against Donald Trump than, ‘I’m so scared...’” —Adam Kinzinger [36:22]
- The Power of Humor:
"Dictators... crack down on is mockery, right?" —Adam Kinzinger [38:13]
4. Expanding Authoritarianism and Institutional Distrust
[17:00–29:42]
- Weaponization of DOJ/FBI:
Kinzinger outlines how years of GOP rhetoric have eroded public trust in these institutions, undermining both left and right’s confidence.“They’ve convinced their own base they’re untrustworthy, and then they take it over and convince Democrats that what they’re actually doing is using it for politics.” —Adam Kinzinger [17:34]
- Normalization of Extremist Rhetoric:
Miller observes that language once relegated to militia movements is now mainstream in GOP leadership. - Shift to Authoritarianism:
“I think we actually are authoritarian right now... it’s important for the opposition party... to be putting markers down now every day...” —Adam Kinzinger [29:42]
- Advice for Democrats: Start loudly documenting abuses to set the groundwork for future accountability.
5. The Military, Loyalty Oaths, and Domestic Threats
[23:11–28:20]
- Quantico Generals Meeting:
Kinzinger speculates the “best case” is saber-rattling about China, but fears the worst is a Trump loyalty oath—exposing military leaders to political loyalty tests.“The worst case scenario is I want a loyalty pledge to Donald Trump... There’s nothing in place that would stop that.” —Adam Kinzinger [23:51]
- Use of Military for Domestic Purposes:
Discussion about ominous memos targeting domestic political opponents (antifa, “left-wing groups”), expansion of National Guard use, and fears of military escalation against Americans.“I don’t think it’s unlikely that they’re going to use it more against the American people.” —Adam Kinzinger [27:22]
6. Strategies for Effective Resistance
[41:41–42:37 & throughout]
- Messaging During a Shutdown:
Kinzinger advises Democrats to put responsibility squarely on Republicans (who control all branches) and avoid embedding themselves in the blame game.“Government shutdowns themselves... are a political problem that you have to saddle on your enemy.” —Adam Kinzinger [39:17]
- On Not Capitulating:
“Don’t say, ‘I don’t want to shut it down.’ Say, ‘We don’t have a choice, it’s up to Republicans.’” —Adam Kinzinger [41:52]
7. Challenges for Veterans in Politics
[43:19–45:55]
- Veterans Targeted: Kinzinger warns that both parties and political operatives use service records as political weapons, discouraging veterans from seeking office.
“If you, if I said that I went to Iraq four times and it was three and I mistook it... now all of a sudden I’m the worst American ever.” —Adam Kinzinger [44:21]
- Broader Implications:
“When the bravest and the most honorable among us are worried about running for office... that’s a problem.” —Adam Kinzinger [45:45]
8. Ukraine Policy Under Trump (New Developments)
[46:45–48:27]
- Trump’s About-Face: Trump now claims to support arming Ukraine to recover all lost territory, including Crimea.
“It’s weird... but he’s creating more problems than not... I won’t be surprised if by the time, in two hours when this episode publishes, he’s already reversed.” —Adam Kinzinger [46:45]
- US as Merchant, Not Partner: Kinzinger laments America’s self-interested posture, likening it to “Home Depot selling wood after a hurricane” rather than acting from moral leadership.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Comey indictment:
“Fear is the tool of a tyrant... But I’m not afraid, and I hope you’re not either.” —James Comey [05:04]
-
On The Cycle of Revenge:
“Maybe malice for a few. There should have been some accountability because the Confederacy lived on.” —Adam Kinzinger [09:40]
-
On Mockery as Resistance:
“When you minimize him and you make him small... that actually does more to fight back against Donald Trump.” —Adam Kinzinger [36:22]
-
On The Shift in Political Rhetoric:
“The rhetoric that was being advanced by these, like, far right militia groups in the 90s is the rhetoric that is advanced by the entire leadership of the Republican Party.” —Tim Miller [19:16]
-
On Authoritarianism:
“We keep talking about, are we going to become authoritarian? I think we actually are authoritarian right now.” —Adam Kinzinger [29:42]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Comey Indictment & Statement: [00:52–07:04]
- Legal Double Standards/Prosecution: [07:04–11:06]
- Weaponization of DOJ/FBI: [17:00–19:40]
- Quantico Generals & Loyalty Tests: [23:11–25:38]
- Advancing Authoritarianism: [29:42–31:27]
- Mockery & Effective Resistance: [34:26–38:41]
- Government Shutdown Politics: [38:41–42:37]
- Veterans in Politics: [43:19–45:55]
- Ukraine Policy Shift: [46:45–48:27]
Tone & Style
The episode skillfully weaves urgency and humor, using sharp satire and inside jokes (“candy” not “spinach”; “minimizing the tyrant”) to keep listeners engaged. Both host and guest alternate between grave warnings about democratic backsliding and practical messaging for resistance, offering both catharsis and strategic insight for the "reality-based community."
Final Thoughts
Adam Kinzinger urges that true resistance to intimidation is both vocal and visible. Miller underscores the unique challenge of communicating risks without hyperbole—using clarity, humor, and strategic messaging to win hearts and minds. Despite the “spinach” of grim realities, they provide listeners with hope: the best defense is both resilience and tactical engagement.