The Bulwark Podcast – Episode: Amanda Carpenter: Lessons from the Tea Party Era

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a compelling conversation with Amanda Carpenter, a writer and editor at Protect Democracy and co-author of The Authoritarian Playbook for 2025. Together, they delve into the current political landscape, drawing parallels with the Tea Party movement and assessing threats to liberal democracy in the face of a potential Trump 2.0 administration.

Introduction and Context

Tim Miller welcomes Amanda Carpenter, highlighting her expertise and the relevance of her work in understanding the threats to democracy. He sets the stage by addressing recent political misinformation and emphasizes the podcast's commitment to a reality-based analysis.

Quote:

"There are plenty of things to criticize Matt Gates on without getting into conspiracy land. We're going to try to be reality based here at the Bulwark."
[01:24] Tim Miller

Threat Assessment: The Authoritarian Playbook

Amanda outlines the primary threat areas identified in The Authoritarian Playbook for 2025, focusing on how Trump’s potential second term could undermine democratic institutions. She emphasizes that while the challenges are greater, they are not insurmountable.

Key Points:

• Pardons: Concerns over Trump pardoning January 6th rioters and the broader implications for rule of law.

  Quote:

  "There cannot be any free passes. You have to make scenes about this. You have to be loud."
  [08:56] Amanda Carpenter

• Politicized Investigations: The misuse of legal systems to target political opponents, exemplified by cases like Matt Gaetz’s.

  Quote:

  "The investigation is the punishment to make you go get a lawyer to spend thousands of dollars an hour to get everything in order."
  [13:29] Amanda Carpenter

• Regulatory Retaliation and Tariffs: The use of government agencies and tariffs to coerce political loyalty and damage the economy.

• Domestic Military Deployment: The alarming possibility of using the military to police American streets, violating the principle of civilian control.

  Quote:

  "We should not be using the military to police American streets. I think there is a big opportunity and need to organize former military members to start talking about this now."
  [14:37] Amanda Carpenter

Immigration Policy and Its Implications

Amanda discusses the multifaceted threats posed by aggressive immigration policies, including the potential misuse of the military and federal law enforcement against not only undocumented immigrants but also any opposition group.

Key Points:

• Cruelness within Legal Boundaries: Even standard immigration enforcement can be harsh, with practices like detention camps.

• Broad Targeting: The term "enemy within" encompasses a wide array of groups, increasing the risk of overreach and abuse.

Quote:

"We have to make people think about it more in terms of their values and how America should conduct business."
[17:08] Amanda Carpenter

Preserving Democratic Norms

The conversation shifts to the importance of maintaining democratic norms while effectively pushing back against authoritarian tendencies. Amanda argues that preserving norms does not mean being complacent or overly civil in the face of threats.

Key Points:

• Public Perception and Symbolism: Criticism of the overly cordial images of Biden and Trump shaking hands, which downplay the severity of the political divide.

• Active Resistance: Encouraging proactive measures to uphold democratic values without necessarily being overly polite or restrained.

Quote:

"Preserving norms doesn't mean you don't disagree and you don't have loud disagreements and you don't show what you think is beyond the pale."
[21:09] Amanda Carpenter

Critical Appointments and Nominations

Amanda expresses significant concern over the qualifications and intentions of key political appointments under a potential Trump administration, particularly focusing on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s nomination for HHS.

Key Points:

• Robert F. Kennedy Jr.: Highlighting his lack of health-related expertise and his previous involvement in anti-vaccination activism, which poses a threat to public health initiatives.

  Quote:

  "The idea that we're getting people into these positions of power that have absolutely no qualification other than political loyalty to Trump is something that definitely needs to be talked about."
  [35:41] Amanda Carpenter

• Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth: Their roles in consolidating resources between Homeland Security and Defense to enforce stringent immigration policies, emphasizing their willingness to take hardline measures.

  Quote:

  "What better way is there to show that you are cold hearted other than shooting your family dog in a pit and bragging about it."
  [43:17] Amanda Carpenter

Strategic Responses and Organizing Tactics

Drawing from her experience with the Tea Party movement, Amanda outlines effective strategies for resistance, advocating for movement-based organizing rather than relying solely on political figures.

Key Points:

• Movement-Based Approach: Emphasizing grassroots organization to influence Washington from the outside.

• Creating Political Costs: Ensuring that authoritarian actions come with tangible political repercussions through public pressure and media coverage.

Quote:

"The origins of the Tea Party... was when Obama was on the rise, right? They knew that was coming and started organizing early."
[28:53] Tim Miller

Media Criticism and Public Perception

The duo discusses the challenges posed by media coverage and misinformation, highlighting the importance of combating false narratives and maintaining accountability.

Key Points:

• Media’s Role: The media’s portrayal of political figures and events can either mitigate or exacerbate authoritarian tendencies.

• Combating Misinformation: The need for vigilant media engagement to counteract false narratives that support authoritarian agendas.

Quote:

"These guys are not going to play by the rules. They're not going to follow the law. They're going to put the craziest people in there possible."
[48:55] Tim Miller

Concluding Thoughts: Mobilizing for Resistance

Amanda encourages listeners to transition from feelings of despair to active engagement, urging them to utilize historical lessons from movements like the Tea Party to effectively counteract current threats.

Key Points:

• Empowerment through Action: Moving from fear to proactive resistance.

• Utilizing Historical Strategies: Applying successful organizing tactics from past movements to today's political challenges.

Quote:

"We know what these fights are. So when we talk about these nominations that are coming, this is not just about Matt Gaetz or Tulsi Gabbard or whoever."
[25:36] Amanda Carpenter

Conclusion

The episode serves as a crucial call to action, emphasizing that while the threats to democracy are significant, organized and informed resistance inspired by historical movements can mitigate these dangers. Amanda Carpenter's insights provide listeners with both a sobering assessment of the current political climate and a roadmap for effective opposition.

Notable Quotes:

• "Things are harder now, much harder. They are not impossible."
  [05:38] Amanda Carpenter

• "The investigation is the punishment to make you go get a lawyer to spend thousands of dollars an hour to get everything in order."
  [13:29] Amanda Carpenter

• "When they talk about the enemy within, they're talking about anybody that's woke left transgender immigrant."
  [18:27] Amanda Carpenter

• "There cannot be any free passes. You have to make scenes about this. You have to be loud."
  [08:56] Amanda Carpenter

• "Preserving norms doesn't mean you don't disagree and you don't have loud disagreements and you don't show what you think is beyond the pale."
  [21:09] Amanda Carpenter

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights shared by Amanda Carpenter and Tim Miller, providing a thorough understanding for those who haven’t listened to the episode.