The Bulwark Podcast: Amanda Carpenter – We Are Team Karen (Pence) Release Date: January 10, 2025

Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Amanda Carpenter, Writer and Editor at Protect Democracy
Description: Tim Miller engages with Amanda Carpenter to delve into the latest political developments, Supreme Court rulings affecting former President Donald Trump, House budget negotiations, and strategic approaches for Democrats to safeguard electoral competition and democratic institutions.

1. Introduction

Tim Miller welcomes Amanda Carpenter, co-author of The Authoritarian Playbook for 2025: How an Authoritarian President Will Dismantle Our Democracy and What We Can Do to Protect It. He highlights the focus of the episode on recent political events and strategic discussions relevant to the Never Trump movement and the broader reality-based community.

2. Karen Pence's Defiant Act at Jimmy Carter Funeral

The conversation opens with Karen Pence's notable action at former President Jimmy Carter's funeral, where she notably snubbed Donald Trump.

• Tim Miller [02:02]: "I wanna start with Karen Pence."

• Amanda Carpenter [04:03]: "What Karen did there, I mean, it's pretty remarkable given the pressures in that room."

Amanda emphasizes the significance of Karen Pence's silent defiance, contrasting it with Michelle Obama's absence and highlighting the subtle yet powerful body language exhibited during the service.

3. Trump's Press Behavior and Implications

Tim and Amanda analyze Donald Trump's behavior during his post-funeral press conference, where he appeared unusually friendly with former President Barack Obama.

• Trump's Statement [05:27]: "It did look very friendly, I must say. I didn't realize it. I didn't realize it. How friendly it looked."

Amanda interprets Trump's demeanor as conflicting, suggesting that despite his public antagonism, he seeks acknowledgment and respect within political circles.

• Amanda Carpenter [06:31]: "He really looked like he was enjoying himself, which is weird to have that amount of enjoyment at a funeral."

This behavior raises concerns about Trump's motivations and the impact on his relationship with both allies and adversaries.

4. Supreme Court Ruling on Trump's Hush Money Case

A pivotal discussion centers on the Supreme Court's 5-4 decision that prevents Donald Trump from avoiding sentencing in his New York hush money trial, declaring him a convicted felon by inauguration.

• Tim Miller [08:12]: "A Supreme Court 5 to 4 ruling said that Trump does not get to avoid sentencing in the New York hush money trial."

Amanda views the ruling positively, noting it as a step towards delineating the boundaries of presidential immunity.

• Amanda Carpenter [09:44]: "This is helpful in going forward if I'm looking for the silver lining and that it further draws a line between immunity for official acts and personal acts."

She underscores the importance of distinguishing between actions undertaken in official capacity versus personal endeavors, setting legal precedents for future administrations.

5. Implications of the Ruling on Presidential Immunity

Amanda elaborates on the ruling's implications, highlighting that while presidents have broad immunity for official acts, personal actions like the hush money payments fall outside this protection.

• Amanda Carpenter [10:36]: "You can't pay a porn star to cover up information to further your campaign. That is not an official act."

This clarification empowers legal frameworks to hold presidents accountable for personal misconduct, reinforcing the rule of law.

6. Special Counsel Jack Smith’s Report and Legal Battles

The discussion transitions to Judge Eileen Cannon's attempt to block the release of Special Counsel Jack Smith's final report, which has since been overturned, allowing the report's release.

• Amanda Carpenter [16:01]: "It needs to get out. Put it out."

Amanda advocates for transparency and the importance of public access to critical investigations, emphasizing the role of the judiciary in upholding democratic principles.

7. House Budget Negotiations: Republican Proposals and Debt Concerns

Tim and Amanda dissect the ongoing House budget negotiations, focusing on Republican proposals that include increasing corporate tax rates and significant cuts to Medicaid.

• Tim Miller [17:18]: "There are a lot of MAGA Americans that are on Medicaid."

Amanda highlights the challenges Republicans face in balancing budget cuts with the potential political fallout from impacting vulnerable populations.

• Amanda Carpenter [20:19]: "We want this fake congressional committee, spending commission to make cuts to programs they don't like to hurt people that challenge their interests."

She critiques the approach of targeting specific programs to achieve fiscal goals, questioning the effectiveness and ethical implications.

8. Strategies for Democrats: Protecting Electoral Competition and Civic Space

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on strategies Democrats should adopt to protect electoral competition and maintain a level playing field in the face of authoritarian tactics.

• Amanda Carpenter [28:00]: "Protecting electoral competition... how do we compete effectively in 26 and 28?"

She stresses the necessity of building robust campaign infrastructures and protecting free speech rights to counteract efforts to sideline political opponents.

• Amanda Carpenter [29:57]: "Protecting online spaces to speak wherever that comes is critical."

Amanda advocates for utilizing free media platforms to engage with audiences, bypassing traditional media channels that may be ineffective or biased.

9. The Role of Free Media in Political Strategy

Amanda and Tim discuss the importance of embracing free media platforms like YouTube and TikTok to reach broader audiences and counteract misinformation.

• Amanda Carpenter [33:47]: "More people need to be getting into the free media space and finding ways to communicate there."

She commends Bulwark for pioneering in this area and encourages the cultivation of new messengers to disseminate pro-democracy messages effectively.

10. Emotional Toll of Political Developments and Trump's Potential Second Term

The emotional impact of recent political events, particularly Trump's imminent second inauguration, is addressed, with Tim expressing personal distress and Amanda offering coping strategies.

• Tim Miller [52:27]: "It's hard not to think about that and not be depressed or discouraged."

• Amanda Carpenter [53:57]: "Tune out. Protect your mental health. This is going to be a long slug and you're going to have to have the energy."

Amanda emphasizes the importance of mental resilience and community support in navigating the challenging political landscape ahead.

11. Conclusion

Tim and Amanda wrap up the episode by reflecting on the need for strategic planning, emotional preparedness, and active participation in defending democratic institutions. They reaffirm their commitment to fostering a fair electoral environment and encourage listeners to engage thoughtfully with the political process.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller [02:02]:
  "I wanna start with Karen Pence."

• Tim Miller [08:12]:
  "A Supreme Court 5 to 4 ruling said that Trump does not get to avoid sentencing in the New York hush money trial."

• Amanda Carpenter [09:44]:
  "This is helpful in going forward if I'm looking for the silver lining and that it further draws a line between immunity for official acts and personal acts."

• Amanda Carpenter [28:00]:
  "Protecting electoral competition... how do we compete effectively in 26 and 28?"

• Amanda Carpenter [53:57]:
  "Tune out. Protect your mental health. This is going to be a long slug and you're going to have to have the energy."

Conclusion: This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a comprehensive analysis of recent political maneuvers, legal rulings, and strategic considerations essential for safeguarding democracy. Amanda Carpenter provides insightful perspectives on the implications of Supreme Court decisions, the dynamics of House budget negotiations, and the imperative for Democrats to engage proactively in free media to maintain electoral competitiveness. The discussion underscores the challenges and emotional toll faced by those committed to defending democratic principles in a polarized political climate.