The Bulwark Podcast Episode Summary: "Andrew Weissmann: A MAGAtocracy and a Babytocracy"
Release Date: January 31, 2025
Hosts: Tim Miller & Andrew Weissmann
Guest: Andrew Weissmann, former FBI General Counsel and former Justice Department prosecutor
1. Introduction: Senator Bill Cassidy and the Fight Against RFK Jr.
Tim Miller opens the episode by discussing Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy's critical role in opposing RFK Jr.'s nomination as Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). Miller emphasizes Cassidy's decision to convict Donald Trump during the second impeachment and his medical background as key factors in his deliberation.
Notable Quote:
"Bill Cassidy knows this. He does. And so just from a medical standpoint, from a health standpoint, the obvious vote here is. No."
[03:04] Tim Miller
Miller encourages Cassidy to maintain his stance, highlighting the potential positive impact on public health and Cassidy's legacy.
2. Introduction of Andrew Weissmann
Andrew Weissmann is introduced as a former FBI General Counsel, lead prosecutor in Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, a professor at NYU Law School, co-host of MSNBC's "Main Justice" podcast, and author of the Substack newsletter "Behind the Headlines with Andrew Weissmann."
Notable Quote:
"I did once again, thank you for your time."
[03:04] Tim Miller
[09:32] Andrew Weissmann
3. Vice President J.D. Vance’s Public Persona and Behavior
The conversation shifts to Vice President J.D. Vance, with Miller critiquing his public statements and perceived irrelevance within the administration. They discuss Vance's attempts to remain relevant through social media and his handling of political discourse.
Notable Quote:
"He's here to sort of provide some kind of defense. And so the government puts him in the grand jury."
[17:49] Tim Miller
Weissmann expresses skepticism about Vance's effectiveness and relevance, suggesting he may not be a strong asset to the administration.
4. Cash Patel’s FBI Nomination Hearing and Its Implications
The core of the episode revolves around Cash Patel's hearing for the FBI Director position. Miller and Weissmann dissect Patel's testimony, highlighting inconsistencies and potential repercussions for the FBI's integrity.
a. Inconsistencies in Testimony
Patel's contradictory statements during his confirmation hearing are scrutinized, particularly his use of "we" which Weissmann interprets as an attempt to obscure personal responsibility.
Notable Quote:
"If you had nothing to do with it, Mr. Patel, why did you tell Steve Bannon and all his listeners that you did?"
[15:08] Tim Miller
b. Impact on FBI Operations and Morale
Weissmann discusses the potential negative effects of Patel's leadership on the FBI's functionality and morale, emphasizing the importance of experience and nonpartisanship in national security roles.
Notable Quote:
"Good judgment is so important. And a lot of that comes from the experience of having lived through lots of cases."
[24:25] Andrew Weissmann
c. Political Consequences and Legacy
Miller reflects on the political challenges Patel may face in Louisiana, drawing parallels with Bill Cassidy's situation and the broader implications for Republican politics.
Notable Quote:
"There's a Cassidy situation that's kind of interesting with rfk. The buzz from Tulsi is not that great, though."
[22:52] Tim Miller
5. DOJ and FBI Firings: Legal and Ethical Concerns
The discussion progresses to the troubling pattern of firings within the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the FBI, highlighting violations of civil service rules and the undermining of institutional integrity.
Notable Quote:
"The actual firing of people who worked on the Trump cases completely violates the civil service rules. So that's illegal."
[38:22] Andrew Weissmann
Weissmann explains the legal protections for DOJ employees and predicts successful lawsuits against improper dismissals.
6. Media Lawsuits and Threats to Press Freedom
Miller and Weissmann delve into the lawsuits filed by media organizations like CBS over edited interviews, portraying these actions as attempts to stifle free press and influence major media mergers.
a. CBS’s 60 Minutes Lawsuit Against Trump
The lawsuit by CBS over a manipulated preview of an interview with Kamala Harris is criticized as baseless and politically motivated.
Notable Quote:
"This is akin to saying, oh, you know what? Elon Musk wants all of our healthcare records."
[47:24] Andrew Weissmann
b. Broader Implications for Media Integrity
Weissmann connects these lawsuits to broader efforts by political figures to control and punish media outlets, seeing it as indicative of a patronage system aimed at silencing dissent.
7. FCC’s Investigation into Public News Outlets
The episode also touches on the Federal Communications Commission's (FCC) investigation into public news organizations like NPR and PBS, critiquing it as another step in undermining media independence.
Notable Quote:
"This is exactly what happens when you have oligarchs where you're just paying off that money."
[51:15] Andrew Weissmann
Weissmann and Miller express concern over the FCC's actions, viewing them as politically motivated attacks on public broadcasting.
8. Supreme Court’s Potential Role in Addressing Government Overreach
Finally, the discussion speculates on the Supreme Court's likely involvement in resolving disputes arising from these governmental actions, particularly regarding executive overreach and the protection of civil servants.
Notable Quote:
"I think Roberts, for instance, as much as he has this view of an extremely broad executive power, I think that's a bridge too far."
[42:48] Andrew Weissmann
Weissmann anticipates the Supreme Court may push back against the Trump administration's expansive view of executive power, though uncertainties remain.
Conclusion
Tim Miller and Andrew Weissmann provide a critical examination of the current political and legal landscape, focusing on threats to institutional integrity, the rule of law, and free press. The episode underscores the challenges posed by politically motivated actions within the DOJ and FBI, the manipulation of media narratives, and the overarching influence of the MAGA movement on American governance.
Notable Closing Quote:
"You never know, because you might get targeted. Who the hell knows, you might get sued now over and maybe so I."
[50:11] Tim Miller
Additional Resources:
- Andrew Weissmann’s Podcast: Main Justice
- Andrew Weissmann’s Substack: Behind the Headlines with Andrew Weissmann
Produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.