The Bulwark Podcast: Andrew Weissmann – "Outlandish and Outrageous"
Release Date: June 12, 2025

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a comprehensive discussion with Andrew Weissmann, a distinguished Professor of Practice at NYU Law School and former lead prosecutor in the Mueller investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election. Weissmann delves into several pressing political and legal issues, primarily focusing on the administration's actions regarding the National Guard deployment in California and broader immigration law enforcement practices.

1. National Guard Deployment in California

Overview:
The episode opens with a discussion about the lawsuit filed by California Governor Gavin Newsom and Attorney General Rob Bonta against the federal administration. They are challenging the administration's decision to deploy approximately 4,700 National Guard troops to California, arguing that it constitutes an unconstitutional overreach of presidential authority under Title 10.

Key Points:

• Legal Basis of the Lawsuit: Weissmann explains that the administration's invocation of the Alien Enemies Act to justify the deployment is an overextension of authority, likening it to previous misuse of legal statutes for authoritarian ends.

  • “...the administration takes a tiny kernel of a fact and blows it way out of proportion...” (02:52)

• Comparison to Historical Precedents: He draws parallels to President Truman's attempt to seize steel mills during the Korean War, which the Supreme Court famously blocked.

  • “...President Truman tried to take over the steel mills... the Supreme Court said, no way.” (05:12)

• Potential Judicial Outcomes: Weissmann anticipates that if lower courts rule against the administration, the case could swiftly move to the Supreme Court for resolution.

  • “Assuming the court agrees that this is not lawful... it could require the removal of the National Guard troops.” (05:45)

Notable Quote:

“This is a complete overreaction to the situation... it's supposed to be de-escalating, not escalating. So it just tells you exactly what's going on.”
— Andrew Weissmann (05:12)

2. Immigration Enforcement and Legal Overreach

Overview:
Weissmann and Miller examine the administration's aggressive immigration enforcement tactics, particularly focusing on the use of federal military forces to conduct deportations without due process.

Key Points:

• Posse Comitatus Act and Its Implications: Weissmann outlines how the Posse Comitatus Act traditionally limits the use of military personnel for domestic law enforcement, except under specific circumstances like invasion or rebellion.

  • “The posse Comitatus act is a statute by Congress that, unless an exception applies, says that the military cannot operate domestically... without an invasion or rebellion.” (09:18)

• Insurrection Act as a Tool for Overreach: The conversation touches on the potential misuse of the Insurrection Act to justify the deployment of military forces for immigration enforcement.

  • “They would invoke something called the Insurrection Act... this is a precursor to that.” (10:35)

• Constitutional Violations: Weissmann emphasizes that the administration's actions violate the Equal Protection Clause and the Fourth Amendment by targeting individuals based on race and nationality without probable cause.

  • “The equal protection clause is a potential claim... Fourth Amendment is a Protection, because everyone... has a protection about not being seized or searched without there being probable cause.” (13:23)

Notable Quote:

“This is all a precursor to the Insurrection Act... and to your point, politically, you raise it in the immigration context... that's what it means to be a rule of law country.”
— Andrew Weissmann (10:40)

3. Department of Justice’s Shift Away from White Collar Crime Prosecution

Overview:
A significant portion of the discussion centers on the Trump administration's Department of Justice (DOJ) and its apparent deprioritization of prosecuting white-collar crimes. Weissmann expresses concern over the dismantling of critical divisions within the DOJ that historically held powerful individuals and corporations accountable.

Key Points:

• Closure of Public Integrity and Fraud Sections: Weissmann highlights the shutdown of these sections, which were instrumental in prosecuting major corporate and financial crimes.

  • “They're shutting down the Public Integrity section, the fraud section... Foreign Corruption Practices Act prosecutions are being destroyed.” (19:23)

• Impact on Corporate Accountability: He provides examples such as the Volkswagen emissions scandal and healthcare fraud cases to illustrate the types of crimes that may no longer be adequately addressed.

  • “One of the really big cases was the Volkswagen case... corporations like Enron... affecting millions.” (19:53)

• Administration’s Priorities: Weissmann criticizes the administration for focusing on deportations and immigration at the expense of significant white-collar crimes, undermining public integrity.

  • “If you have a white-collar criminal in the White House, I'm not surprised by the fact that he doesn't want to go after white-collar crime.” (21:58)

Notable Quote:

“This administration saying, essentially, if you're a rich white person... we're not really in the business of looking out for the crimes that you're committing.”
— Andrew Weissmann (21:56)

4. Judicial Rebuke of the Administration's Policies

Overview:
Weissmann discusses the increasing number of federal court rulings against the administration's policies, particularly in immigration enforcement, indicating a systemic failure within the DOJ.

Key Points:

• Court Rulings Statistics: An alarming 96% of federal district court rulings in May went against the administration, showcasing widespread judicial disapproval.

  • “From May, 96% of them went against the administration in April is 76%, 51 of 67.” (17:59)

• Judicial Independence: He underscores that these rulings come from a diverse set of judges, including those appointed by both Democrats and Republicans, reflecting a broad consensus against the administration's overreach.

  • “The identity of the judges are, is across the board... Republican, including judges appointed by Donald Trump.” (18:23)

Notable Quote:

“There's nothing unlawful about it... But I think a lot of people are watching this and wondering, who’s going to do anything about it?”
— Andrew Weissmann (27:20)

5. Due Process Violations and Landmark Cases

Overview:
The conversation turns to specific cases illustrating the administration's disregard for due process, particularly focusing on the detention and deportation of individuals without legal recourse.

Key Points:

• Andre Romero Case: Judge Boasberg ruled that a group of Venezuelans, including Andre Romero, must be provided legal avenues to contest their detention, likening the process to Kafka's The Trial.

  • “Judge Boasberg described the process of these removals as being akin to a scene from the Kafka novel the Trial.” (41:20)

• Mahmoud Khalil Case: Another focal point is the case of Mahmoud Khalil, where a judge blocked his removal based on constitutional grounds, highlighting the ongoing legal battles.

  • “District Judge Michael Farbiars said he could not be removed or detained based on Rubio's determination.” (44:33)

Notable Quote:

“These people's rights are currently being violated. There should be some sense of urgency about remedying it.”
— Andrew Weissmann (42:48)

6. Challenges Within the Department of Justice

Overview:
Weissmann elaborates on the internal challenges within the DOJ, including resource allocation and prioritization, which have led to the neglect of critical areas like organized and economic crime.

Key Points:

• Resource Diversion to Immigration: The DOJ has redirected significant resources towards immigration enforcement, undermining efforts to tackle other serious crimes.

  • “They're pulling resources from organized crime, gang prosecutions, white-collar crime...” (25:21)

• Impact on National Security and Public Safety: Weissmann warns that neglecting areas like terrorism and economic crimes poses significant risks to national security and public welfare.

  • “This administration is acting as if there is no domestic or foreign terrorism threat.” (25:21)

Notable Quote:

“You've got so much that really has to be done at the federal level to prosecute these kinds of cases.”
— Andrew Weissmann (25:21)

7. FBI Director Cash Patel’s Lawsuit

Overview:
Towards the end of the episode, the conversation briefly touches upon FBI Director Cash Patel filing a lawsuit against MSNBC's Frank Flugluzzi for allegedly fabricating a lie about Patel’s personal life.

Key Points:

• Free Speech Implications: Weissmann discusses the implications of high-profile figures suing media personalities, emphasizing the importance of resilience and thick skin in public service.

  • “Having been in government, you develop a thick skin...” (50:24)

• Chilling Effects on Free Speech: While acknowledging the personal nature of such lawsuits, Weissmann expresses concern over the potential chilling effects on free speech and public discourse.

  • “The biggest concern I have is the chilling effect of bringing things like that.” (50:49)

Notable Quote:

“This is a way to completely gut the legal system, at least at the federal level.”
— Andrew Weissmann (21:58)

Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the fragile state of American constitutional governance, emphasizing the erosion of checks and balances under the current administration. Weissmann and Miller express deep concerns about the future of due process, rule of law, and the DOJ's integrity, urging listeners to remain vigilant and advocate for institutional accountability.

Final Notable Quote:

“Our checks and balances are clearly not sufficient... you have to count on the American people caring enough, they're going to do something about it.”
— Andrew Weissmann (35:57)

Summary:

In "Outlandish and Outrageous," Andrew Weissmann provides a critical analysis of the Trump administration's legal strategies, focusing on unconstitutional deployments of the National Guard and aggressive immigration enforcement tactics that bypass due process. He highlights the DOJ's troubling shift away from prosecuting white-collar crimes, undermining public integrity and accountability. Weissmann underscores the overwhelming judicial opposition to these policies, reflecting widespread concerns about executive overreach. Through specific cases like Andre Romero and Mahmoud Khalil, he illustrates the tangible impacts on individuals' rights. The discussion also touches on internal DOJ challenges and the broader implications for American constitutional governance, concluding with a call for public vigilance and advocacy to uphold the rule of law.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “This is a complete overreaction to the situation... it's supposed to be de-escalating, not escalating. So it just tells you exactly what's going on.”
  — Andrew Weissmann (05:12)

• “This is all a precursor to the Insurrection Act... and to your point, politically, you raise it in the immigration context... that's what it means to be a rule of law country.”
  — Andrew Weissmann (10:40)

• “This administration saying, essentially, if you're a rich white person... we're not really in the business of looking out for the crimes that you're committing.”
  — Andrew Weissmann (21:56)

• “These people's rights are currently being violated. There should be some sense of urgency about remedying it.”
  — Andrew Weissmann (42:48)

• “Our checks and balances are clearly not sufficient... you have to count on the American people caring enough, they're going to do something about it.”
  — Andrew Weissmann (35:57)

This detailed summary encapsulates the core discussions and insights shared by Andrew Weissmann on The Bulwark Podcast, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the critical legal and political issues at hand.