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- [00:02]
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- [01:13]
Tim Miller
Hello and welcome to the Bullock Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back. Professor of practice at NYU Law School, he was a lead prosecutor of Bob Mueller's investigation of the Russia interference in the 2016 election. That which actually did happen. And chief of the fraud section at the Department of Justice. He co hosts the podcast Main justice with Mary McCarthy. He's got a substack called behind the Headlines. He's on a little bit of a sabbatical, but not too much of one to take a break from hanging out with me. It's Andrew Weissman.
- [01:41]
Andrew Weissman
Hello. How are you?
- [01:43]
Tim Miller
This is kind of like vacation, being with me. Is that. That's sort of true, right?
- [01:50]
Andrew Weissman
That's like a straight line for me to say. Many people say it's work. No, you're absolutely right. Look, it is always a pleasure.
- [01:59]
Tim Miller
Back at you, my friend. We have a lot happening in the news. Yeah, there is, and plenty in the legal front. And I was like going through the outline and I don't want to make the entire podcast about immigration law, but we got to do a lot of immigration law. Unfortunately. I think it's the nature of our moment. But we have today Governor of California Gavin Newsom. The Attorney General, Rob Anta are filing a lawsuit against the administration. There's a hearing today. They are suing to end the what they call illegal and unnecessary takeover of the California National Guard unit. They argue the takeover violates the Constitution and exceeds the President's Title 10 authority. What do you make of that? Is there anything there? The Trump Justice Department says that's a political stunt. There's nothing to it.
- [02:38]
Andrew Weissman
So, you know, I've been thinking about this and sort of the best way for people to understand what is going on. And I think I tried to get my blood pressure down in discussing this.
- [02:52]
Tim Miller
Ujjayi breath really quick.
- [02:54]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah, exactly. I think you have to look at this and you have to look at the way that this administration invoked the Alien Enemies act to deport people to El Salvador in the same context. And what I mean by that is, in both situations, the administration takes a tiny kernel of a fact and blows it way out of proportion and says to the courts, you have to agree with our assessment of those facts. And we are essentially torturing the English language to be able to do things that are absolutely authoritarian and contrary to law. So in the Alien Enemies act, the idea that we're invaded by the TDA gang is not true. There are four federal courts that have said no way. That is torturing the English language. What is going on in LA is the same thing. People who participate in a demonstration where a small fraction of them do something illegal and participate in violence is not an invasion. It is not a rebellion. It is not an attempted or risk of rebellion. It is not a situation where law enforcement cannot do its job anymore. Just to be clear, the law to send those people in. Right. Requires there to be an invasion, rebellion, or the law enforcement can't be sent in. So there takes some kernel of a problem, blow it completely out of proportion in order to have an authoritarian regime where people are denied their rights. It is so outlandish. And the courts unfortunately, have developed law in the context of thinking about normal administrations where you don't have somebody acting, in my view, in complete bad faith in the way that they're assessing the facts.
- [05:13]
Tim Miller
I guess my question then in this case is. All right, so let's say, you know, I'm actually not sure which court, which circuit is hearing the Newsom case today. I said one of the California ones. But assuming they agree, it's San Francisco.
- [05:28]
Andrew Weissman
Yep. Yeah.
- [05:29]
Tim Miller
So assuming they agree with that assessment from you, like, then what is this? Like, something that you can really get emergency remediation from from the Supreme Court? Like, that's kind of hard to imagine for me, but maybe, maybe not. I don't know.
- [05:45]
Andrew Weissman
Well, assuming the court agrees that this is not lawful, they can say that you can't have 4,000 National Guard troops there. It's a slightly different issue when you're sending in federal military. So the Marines is a different legal structure, but it would be relevant to the 4,000 people there. By the way, one thing, you know Since I'm discussing this as a lawyer, it is important to remember, just as a human being, talk about a complete overreaction to the situation. I mean, the reason that I think the law point I make, which is this is escalating something and torturing the English language to be authoritarian, is because of the obvious point, which is you do not need to send in 4,700 military people to deal with this situation. I mean, this is supposed to be de. Escalating, not escalating. So it just tells you exactly what's going on.
- [06:44]
Tim Miller
Well, they want it. I mean, the politics of it. I was reading a Real Clear Politics article this morning where, like, they're on the record. It's not like TDS or MSNBC talk to be like, they want disorder. They say it's Trump says it. The MAGA advisors are like, this will be good for us in the midterms. They're not trying to quell the disorder. They are reveling in it. I do think about that. The other side of this political coin, though, is like, okay, regardless whether it's true on the law, you get to a pretty concerning place. If it's like, okay, some judge in San Francisco says that the President of the United States can't call in National Guard troops. I do think that that is a very dicey political situation. Right. I mean, it's something that you'd really have to take up to the Supreme Court, right?
- [07:33]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah. No, look, it is the kind of thing that would go up and it would go up very quickly. But, you know, let me just give you an example of something where the courts, it's from a long time ago, but when President Truman tried to take over the steel mills and said, I need to do this because we need the ste for our military to fight in Korea, the Supreme Court said, no way. This is a civilian legal system and legal structure and you are the commander in chief. But it is Congress's call as to whether they want to do that, not yours. And so it's so easy to understand that. But we're dealing in a situation where, you know, we don't have a Congress that's doing anything right. So the President has just filled that vacuum because nature abhors a vacuum, or in this case, I would say Donald Trump abhors a vacuum.
- [08:27]
Tim Miller
A couple other things that we've been seeing in la, and we talked about this a little bit yesterday with Mark Hertling, but we had a general talking to somebody that had a B average in undergrad and didn't go to law school. So I don't know if we gave the most coherent description of posse Comitatus for our listeners. And so that is the kind of other element here. Right. There's this question of can, you know, the. Either the federalized national guard troops or the marines that are being sent in do law enforcement? Like, what are they allowed to do? What are the limitations? Of course, when you're a doj, something you're very familiar with. So, like, let's talk a little bit about that.
- [09:03]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah, sure. I mean, you know, this doesn't come up a lot. I mean, this is kind of thing where, you know, I was in DOJ for a long time, never came up because we don't have administrations like this. And I served under normal or, you know, Republican and Democratic administrations. It's not a political issue.
- [09:19]
Tim Miller
I don't recall coming up in politics that there was a big anti posse comitatus, like, kind of wing of the party, people who are very excited to, you know, take the military and policeify them, but here we are.
- [09:30]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah. So the posse Comitatus act is a statute by Congress that, unless an exception applies, says that the military cannot operate domestically in our country to do law enforcement activities. When president Nixon called in the national guard to help deliver mail because there was a postal strike, that was allowed because it had nothing to do with law enforcement. Here, the argument is that they're not doing anything related to law enforcement. They're just protecting federal property. But the problem is it also has to be an invasion or rebellion, or there has to be a complete failure of law enforcement to be able to carry out its functions. I don't see any of that as a prerequisite. Here's the big sort of elephant in the room is that at the end of the day, the way that the president would get around this is he would invoke something called the insurrection act.
- [10:36]
Tim Miller
And you've been seeing them throw around the word insurrection a couple times. I think Stephen Miller said it.
- [10:40]
Andrew Weissman
Absolutely. This is all a precursor to that. And. And to your point, I mean, politically, you raise it in the immigration context. So it makes people who are feel like, you know, if you oppose this, suddenly it means you're for illegal immigration. And this is one where, you know, you can keep two ideas in your head at the same time, which is you can agree that the law should be. Should not be violated and should adhere to the law. And at the same time, you can think, if you're in the country illegally, there's. You can be deported lawfully. But it is simp simply not the case that just because there's some people in the country here illegally that you just then get to say, you know what? We get to violate the law and extracting them. This is why you had Judge WILKINSON in the 4th Circuit, a really conservative but highly respected jurist, saying it doesn't work that way. You have to comply with the law. If you want these people to be removed, there is a lawful way to do that that gives them due process where you can respect the process. And I, I think this is to your point, this is so deliberate to do this in a way that you, when you have people, you know, saying, oh, these pesky liberals who are worrying about the niceties of the law and they're doing it for people who are potentially in this country illegally, that's what it means to be a rule of law country.
- [12:06]
Tim Miller
Yeah, right. There's one element of this LA thing that's really well and everywhere. Now it's happening everywhere that is, it's getting under my skin. And I saw a legal angle on it on social media that's maybe a little fancy, but I just wanted to toss it by you. And that is like whether just, I forget the, the military side of this, like whether just the way that they're doing the immigration enforcement is also illegal. This is David Beer from Cato says that the Wall Street Journal is reporting on the conspiracy about the White House and ICE to violate the Constitution and conduct warrantless, suspicionless sweeps of Hispanic areas of the country. This is referring to that Wall Street Journal story that Stephen Miller is like, just go to Home Depot, just go to 7 11. Like, stop. You know, we gotta get more people deported. Beer says this is a criminal behavior and that the state police need to start investigating these crimes. That feels a little bit like a fantasy, but it does feel illegal. I don't know. I know that's not a technical law term, but. Right. I mean, like it's one thing if they're saying, hey, we're going to this Home Depot because we have a deportation order for this one person that works there. And like while we're there, you know, we're going to do sweeps, you know, okay, I don't know, I'm not for that. But that's one thing versus just like willy nilly going to areas where you think that there are a lot of Hispanic workers.
- [13:24]
Andrew Weissman
So the equal protection clause is a potential claim that people have if you are choosing to target people based on what suspect classification. So race and nationality. The Fourth Amendment is a Protection, because everyone in this country has a protection about not being seized or searched without there being probable cause. So that's another protection.
- [13:51]
Tim Miller
And that's true on immigration, right? Like, is probable cause. Like somebody doesn't have their id, Is that probable cause?
- [13:57]
Andrew Weissman
You would have to have a basis for just knowing that they don't have their id. I mean, just to be clear, though, you can go to up to anybody, assuming you're not targeting them for an improper, unconstitutional purpose. You can go up to anyone and voluntarily ask them, can I see your papers? Et cetera. But the person doesn't have to respond. The law is very liberal, though, in terms of what law enforcement can do. But here's the real problem is that in general, what we're seeing is the administration is not giving those people their day in court. So all of these things where you're saying, oh, well, they might have a constitutional claim about. Or I'm saying they might have a constitutional claim on the equal protection clause, or they may have violated various immigration rules in doing this or the Fourth Amendment in doing this. All of that presupposes that they're going to have an opportunity to be heard. The reason that you had the Supreme Court Rule 9 to 0 not once, but twice in this area is because this administration has denied due process to the people who have been summarily extracted from this country without due process of law. So they don't have the opportunity to raise any of these claims.
- [15:16]
Tim Miller
All right, y' all. I've been trying to get in shape for Pride Month, going to the gym from time to time, and was in the market for some new, you know, gym clothes with the mesh liners. You know, I'm sure those of you that go to the gym know what I'm talking about.
- [15:31]
Andrew Weissman
I don't know.
- [15:31]
Tim Miller
I'm doing my best over here. And luckily we got a new sponsor that provided in my moment of need. It's Fair Harbor. This episode is brought to you by Fair harbor, the makers of the world's most comfortable swimwear. If you're heading to the beach or have a vacation coming up, you can pack their breeze knit lined trunks and say goodbye to mesh lining forever. I should mention, related to the intro, I wear Speedos, so the need for the Fair harbor trunks look great. Great if you're a long trunk person, but hence the reference to why I'm using them at the gym. You know, the mesh lining in swim trunks that every guy hates with Fair Harbor's built in boxer brief liner, their trunks are softer than anything you have ever felt before. Fair harbor trunks are perfect for swimming, lounging or soaking up some sun. A variety of designs and styles make finding your favorite pair easy. And Fair harbor super soft built in liner keeps you comfortable all day. You'll never go back to the mesh line trunks again. Already put mine on. They are in kind of a coral red color. Looking good. Gotta tell you, I'm into it. Maybe a Father's day gift. Along with swim trunks, Fair harbor carries a full line of casual clothing. I picked up a linen shirt. Their shorts, shirts and hoodies let you relax beyond the beach. And if the rest of the family gets jealous, they've got kids styles too. Ready to ditch your old swimwear? Fair harbor makes the most comfortable trunks you'll ever wear. Chafe free, quick drying and built for all day comfort. Upgrade your Collection and get 15% off your first purchase. Head to FairHarborClothing.com Bulwark and use code Bulwark for 20% off your first purchase. Once again, that's Fair Harbor H A R b o r clothing.com bulwark that leads me to a couple other things I wanted to get you on. Just generally speaking. I'm going to get back to some of the immigration stuff but overall the Trump Justice Department's failures and I wonder what you think and when this might come to a head. I was asking before I had you on our very capable lesbian in house attorney for advice on what we should talk about and she pointed me to a breakdown of the federal district court rulings from May. 96% of them went against the administration in April is 76%, 51 of 67. So I mean this is not precedented really just how much they're being rebuked. But okay, like what is, what are the implications of that, like level of failure?
- [17:59]
Andrew Weissman
So first, you know the administration says about that, see, look how unfair the courts are. And you know the other response to that is no. When you have an administration that has never done so many things that are illegal and the reason you know it is the latter and not the administration is you can look at the identity of the judges who are doing this.
- [18:23]
Tim Miller
Right?
- [18:24]
Andrew Weissman
And the identity of the judges are, is across the board. It's not just democratically appointed judges and nominated by Democrats, it's Republican, including judges appointed by Donald Trump. And so that's a huge issue. I think there's the other thing that I think gets not enough attention is that there's a lot of things that the Department of Justice is doing that is lawful but Outrageous. So, you know, we're talking about the things that are outrageous and unlawful. But as a friend of mine said, who's a Republican and a former white collar prosecutor, he said, this is the golden age for being a white collar criminal. It is just a shutdown of the Public integrity section, the fraud section that I used to run at the Department of Justice. They just announced essentially that Foreign Corruption Practices act prosecutions are being destroyed.
- [19:24]
Tim Miller
For those of us who aren't familiar, like what, what is in the fraud section? What are some of the things that you were prosecuting that now we're not going to be looking into.
- [19:31]
Andrew Weissman
So one of the really big cases that we did as I was leaving was the Volkswagen case. So Volkswagen had game the system and was selling cars as environmentally friendly when in fact they were anything but. They sort of figured out a way to turn on the environmentally friendly engine when it was being tested. And then it immediately, it went off.
- [19:53]
Tim Miller
I kind of remember this.
- [19:55]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah. And, and just, you know, people in Germany are now being prosecuted for. People were prosecuted here. The company paid a fortune here and pled guilty to a felony. And it was an unusual corporate crime because it was actually orchestrated from above. And sort of. And the way it sort of was discovered was that people below were like, you know what, we're not down with this. So that's one example. There are corporations that were like Enron, huge financial institutions engaged in various frauds that affect millions and millions of people across the country.
- [20:34]
Tim Miller
Theranos maybe was Theranos in the fraud section?
- [20:37]
Andrew Weissman
Theranos was not in the fraud section. But let me give you just another example of crimes that the fraud section prosecuted in the healthcare unit. This is just one example. A doctor who falsely told his patients that they had cancer so that he could charge them for chemotherapy and then also wasn't actually even treating them for what was there. So not only did they go through, you know, chemotherapy is not a benign thing to go through. So they went through all of that. They went through this psychic issue of that their family went through it all for greed.
- [21:17]
Tim Miller
Oh, my God.
- [21:18]
Andrew Weissman
And so that's sort of an outrageous crime on a small scale. And then there were crimes that huge corporate crimes that affect people monetarily can affect the environment, like Volkswagen. All of these are really, really important things. And, you know, this administration saying, essentially, if you're a rich white person, you know, we're not really in the business of looking out for, you know, the crimes that you're committing. You know, I basically spent 20 years of my life I used to say I was basically prosecuting sort of like corporate executives and it's just hard to see that that's going to go on anymore.
- [21:56]
Tim Miller
Well, it's because when they talk about law and order, they're not talking about that.
- [21:59]
Andrew Weissman
Right, exactly.
- [22:00]
Tim Miller
It's just like Donald Trump doesn't see like corporate crime, theft scams as crimes because he committed them like many times and has been, you know, whether it be Trump University that, you know, he had a judgment against him on or all of those. Right. He did a multi level marketing scheme, an MLM scheme he was involved in. National Review did a long report on that back in the day. So, you know, I mean, I think that's like a big part of this.
- [22:25]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah. I mean, let's, let's not forget he is a convicted felon. I mean, I mean if you have a white collar criminal in the White House, I'm not surprised by the fact that he doesn't want to go after white collar crime. It's just, you remember on day one that Pam Bondi started as the Attorney General, she issued, it's a lawful thing to do, but she issued a memorandum basically gutting all of these areas that are so important for holding people to account. And also equal justice. It should not be because you're rich that they or white can correlate that you suddenly are immune from criminal investigation.
- [23:14]
Tim Miller
Yeah. I immediately get my political hat on and I want to think like there has to be a populist angle for the Democrats here. Just like listening to you talk about this, it's like these, you know, these guys claim that they're for the forgotten man and they're going after the elites and going after the deep state, but it's like the opposite.
- [23:33]
Andrew Weissman
You could go through the pardons and talk the sort of, the nature, the, the number of people who are pardoned who engaged in, you know, grift and it's like, why are those people getting pardoned when you have a lot of small fry if you were going to try and do this in an even handed way, who don't have the, you know, the wherewithal to have influence with the people deciding who's going to get presented for a pardon to the President.
- [24:04]
Tim Miller
Yeah. And I just think that like, I don't know, I'm trying to cast this person in a movie, but like the Democrats need like a character who, you know, sounds like a working man with a southern accent to start being like they're, you know, they're letting all the fucking fat cats get away with every. And they need a Huey Long. Honestly, like that's not really my kind of politics, but like somebody that can like get this through to people that it is the people that are screwing over regular folks that are being let off scot free right now left and right. And to this point, my buddy texted me yesterday about one of the U.S. attorney's offices. And I want to kind of just get your take on this without getting into the details. It's my understanding this is happening everywhere, but that essentially at one of the U.S. attorney's offices, it's not in a border state. They're still redirecting resources essentially entirely to immigration issues and that they have people coming in from D.C. that are focused on that and the folks that are working on stuff at, you know, out in these various, you know, regional offices, maybe not all of them, but a good proportion of them are being pushed to, you know, focus their energies and resources on immigration. And is that your kind of understanding? And how does that. And just talk to us about how that works, like from being inside doj.
- [25:22]
Andrew Weissman
Sure. And this is an example of elections have consequences. I mean, there's nothing, just to be put it in context of our broader conversation. There's nothing unlawful about it. It's just a question of is it something that, as you're listening to this and your viewers are watching, are they sitting there going, hey, this is a good idea. So U.S. attorney's office is usually it's, that's at a federal level. They're not that big. Even the largest are not that big. I worked in the U.S. attorney's office in the Eastern District of New York. That's sort of Brooklyn and Queens. It's part of the New York sort of offices. And that was about 100 or so criminal prosecutors. That's, that's really big for a U.S. attorney's office. If you suddenly take people and say, okay, 30 of you are now being moved. So the other things that are, that are being looked at or organized crime, gang prosecutions, gangs that are sort of emerging, gangs that prey on lawful immigrant groups that come to New York that are now, I mean, that's sort of traditionally how gangs start. You have white collar crime that we've talked about in suddenly you're, you're pulling resources from that, all sorts of economic crime. And so, and then you have terrorism, you know, and that I, I think this administration is acting as if there is no domestic or foreign terrorism threat. And that is just so foolhardy to think that. And so you are pulling those resources. And that's why the sort of a rational discussion would is about what is the cost of doing this. And so that is where it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that you would be doing that when you have limited federal resources. And there's so much that really has to be done at the federal level to prosecute these. The kinds of cases we're talking about.
- [27:21]
Tim Miller
Now, you got to hit your quota with Stephen Miller. You don't want Miller getting mad at you. This is like a process. Like, I'm trying to understand how this works, like, how much independence everybody has. So when you were at the Eastern District of New York, like, do you talk to the deputy attorney general and are like, here's the kind of cases we're prioritizing. Are they. How would Todd Blanch or whoever would be the point person at DOJ influence this?
- [27:43]
Andrew Weissman
You know, that is one where, as a matter of sort of what can doj in fact, do? Doj, in fact, can instruct and tell the local offices exactly what they have to do and how they're going to allocate, you know, within congressional bounds. But they actually have that power. It's just that in most administrations, it is exercised only around the edges. There's an enormous amount of deference to the U.S. attorney for a whole variety of reasons, but usually because the U.S. attorney was selected by a sitting senator who gets proposed to the president, and then the U.S. attorney is actually nominated by the president, so they have some independent clout. And so usually the attorney general and the deputy attorney general sort of are careful before they step on those toes. But, you know, Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch can just reach in and say, do this and don't do that. We saw that in the Eric Adams case, where they basically pulled the case eventually from the Southern District of New York and moved it to D.C. and they directed them as to exactly what they were going to do, including saying that you're going to move to dismiss the case without prejudice. And you saw what happened, which was people both in the field in the Southern District of New York and people in Public Integrity resigned over it, which is completely abnormal. It just, you know, that is something. The only time we've seen that in any recent time is in Trump 1.0.
- [29:24]
Tim Miller
Meanwhile, Andrew, Eric Adams might end up being your best option for mayor in your city up there. We'll see how it shakes out. You got the beret guy as a Republican who knows the Democratic field. Is Cuomo leading?
- [29:39]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah, I can't really political things. But I know there are in fact better options.
- [29:49]
Tim Miller
There are far better options than the beret man and Eric Adams and Andrew Cuomo. Yes, we'll see TBD on that and that's a bold statement. We'll see how your wise fellow citizens vote here.
- [30:00]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah, what I'm saying there are better options. I'm not sure they're polling all that well, but I'm just saying there are better options.
- [30:07]
Tim Miller
I might as well tease it now. I have a little interview with Zoran, who is not who's on the far far left for me coming up. Maybe we might have a bonus pod for people this weekend, so keep an eye out for that. It's quite the field that you've got there. It feels welco for me now that I've, you know, whatever left the Republican Party and more aligned on the other side. My favorite Republican was always the one finishing in last in the primaries and all of these things because I always liked the moderate squish and now I just am living the same experience. My favorite Democratic person in the mayor's primary has 2%. So, you know, it's just the people and I are not aligned, unfortunately. Listen, I'm no Tim the Toolman tailor, okay? Around the house fixing stuff. I don't know if that's a surprise to anybody. I leave that to the pros. And that's especially true when it comes to what's happening with our windows. And there's a better way to buy blinds, shades, shutters and drapery. It's called three Day Blinds. They're the leading manufacturer of high quality custom window treatments in the US and right now if you use my URL 3dayblinds.com thebullwork they are running a buy one get one 50% off deal. We can shop for almost everything at home. Why not shop for blinds at home too? Three Day Blinds has local, professionally trained consultants who have an average of 10 years experience that provide expert guidance on the right blinds for you in the comfort of your home. Just set up an appointment and you'll get a free no obligation quote the same day. If you like me aren't very handy. The Expert team at 3 Day Blinds handles all the heavy lifting they design, measure and install so you can sit back, relax and leave it to the pros. With three Day Blinds, you choose from thousands of options that fit any budget or style and with actual samples, you won't be guessing about what your blinds look like. 3 Day Blinds has been in business over 45 years and they've helped over 2 million people get the window treatments of their dreams. So they are a brand you can trust right now. Get quality window treatments that fit your budget with 3 Day Blinds. Head to 3dayblinds.com thebullwork for their buy one, get one 50% off deal on custom blinds, shades, shutters and drapery for a free no charge, no obligation consultation. Just head to 3dayblinds.com TheBoltWork one last time. That's buy one, get one 50% off and you head to the number 3D a Y blinds.com TheBullWerk what else do I have for you? All right, Comey. When I come here and I asked about this, but I also want your take. I'm obsessed with this because again it's something that having not been in any of these agencies, I don't really understand how it works. Like the process works. But the DHS is just spending way more than they have been allocated. And Kristi Noem and they're just. And Chris Murphy really put it to Kristi Noem on this the other day and I want to play that for you and just kind of get your thoughts on it.
- [32:53]
Chris Murphy
I say this with seriousness and respect, but your department is out of control. You are spending like you don't have a budget. You're on the verge of running out of money for the fiscal year. You are illegally refusing to spend funds that have been authorized by this Congress and appropriated by this committee. You are ignoring the immigration laws of this nation, implementing a brand new immigration system that you have invented that has little relation to the statutes that you are required that you are commanded to follow as spelled out in your oath of office. You are routinely violating the rights of immigrants who may not be citizens, but whether you like it or not, they have constitutional and statutory rights when they reside in the United States.
- [33:31]
Tim Miller
We've covered the second half of that quite a bit. But on the first half, really strong there from Chris Murphy. But on the first half, I guess if Congress doesn't care, they can just spend what they want. But where are they getting the money money from? I just, I don't understand how it's working.
- [33:43]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah, so I mean this is, you know, the Supreme Court case that I was sort of alluding to involving Truman. The, the famous concurrence by Justice Jackson where they uphold congressional authority. He ends it by saying, you know, we can do this for Congress but you know, it's yours to implement. Like if you Congress don't do you sort of have the backbone to do what you need to do this is all for naught. And I think that's what we're seeing. And so as much as the senator did a great job, he's not in the majority. And so in terms of actually having enough money, presumably they will run out of money, but they could get it in a reoccurring if they were to take it from something that was not allocated to them. Again, that can be against the law. But I think a lot of people sort of watching this are going to be like, yeah, and who's going to do anything about it? You know, remember we started with the TikTok ban.
- [34:50]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Who would have standing to even do anything?
- [34:52]
Andrew Weissman
Congress.
- [34:53]
Tim Miller
Right?
- [34:54]
Andrew Weissman
Congress, that's right. I mean, the TikTok ban was how this started, where the TikTok band was imposed by Congress. It went to the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court says it is lawful. And then Donald Trump says, yeah, we're not. We're not implementing it. And Pam Bondi issues a letter to tech companies saying, don't worry about putting them on your platforms because essentially we're not going to prosecute it. And so when you start that way, this is sending a message of what are you going to do about it?
- [35:30]
Tim Miller
Has this created any doubts for you in the American constitutional republic? Because I just look at this and it's like we never had considered really before, and I guess, besides treatment of black folks, but outside of that, never really considered before, the notion that maybe Congress would just decide not to do anything and that the administration could just do whatever they want and that there isn't really a remedy for it, like that, like that option hadn't really crossed my mind.
- [35:57]
Andrew Weissman
The one thing that Donald Trump has clearly shown is that our checks and balances are clearly not sufficient. I mean, that if you have somebody who is pure ID work, you know, to an homage to my psychologist mother, somebody who doesn't have this sort of external controls that, you know, you're counting on Congress, you're counting on the courts, and, you know, ultimately, though, you have to. We've sort of learned you have to count on the American people caring enough, they're going to do something about it. Because these sort of institutional checks and balances have a lot of flaws. And obviously we talked a little bit about the pardon power, but that is a way to completely gut the legal system, at least at the federal level.
- [36:43]
Tim Miller
Psychologist mother that's just starting to explain things. I'm starting. The picture is starting to come in, the full picture starting to come into focus for me.
- [36:53]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah, it's pure nerd. Yeah.
- [36:56]
Tim Miller
Some of my colleagues at the board met my mother at the Denver Live show. They're like, oh, okay, now I get it. That makes sense now.
- [37:04]
Rodney Williams
I'm Rodney Williams.
- [37:06]
Travis Holloway
And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break.
- [37:09]
Rodney Williams
Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle and relying on your community to create something bigger.
- [37:23]
Travis Holloway
And that's exactly why we created the Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles and real wins.
- [37:34]
Rodney Williams
We're here to talk about the journey. You'll hear from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business, we're bringing you their stories.
- [37:53]
Travis Holloway
And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.
- [38:08]
Rodney Williams
So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.
- [38:15]
Travis Holloway
Listen to the Wealth Braid podcast on the iHeartRadio app.
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- [39:19]
Tim Miller
Available at pockethost.com terms rapid fire through a couple of these other immigration things because we spent too much time on it. But the. Just really quick, the ice covering faces not identifying themselves.
- [39:29]
Andrew Weissman
Okay. So I really try not to curse.
- [39:32]
Tim Miller
Okay.
- [39:33]
Andrew Weissman
Curse face the closest I'm going to get. But it's not really what I'm thinking is what the hell. I mean, just to clear. That is so. It's so outrageous. This is not Covid. The only reason to do that is to both scare people and to not be able to be held to account so that you have sort of this anonymity. And I think it also has this effect again, to channel sort of psychology. Once you do that, I think it sort of, in some ways liberates you to act worse, to act with impunity because you're sort of covered.
- [40:13]
Tim Miller
Right.
- [40:14]
Andrew Weissman
And so it is unbelievable that there aren't people like bosses. This is where, you know, this is where you want adults in the room to be like, that's not happening. And what we've seen in this administration, there are no adults in the room.
- [40:29]
Tim Miller
Yeah. And from a prosecutor's perspective, you also have to be like, wait a minute. This is going to create issues. Right. Like, as far as it depends, people having rights. I know we've seen some of these arrests. These people are not getting their Miranda rights read to them. They're not even admitting that they're cops half the time.
- [40:45]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah. I mean, that's obviously, if they're not read your Miranda rights, that's one thing, but wearing the mask is something that is, you know, there's no constitutional right to be arrested by somebody who's not wearing a mask.
- [41:00]
Tim Miller
So maybe we should have thought about that.
- [41:02]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah. But it's the thing.
- [41:04]
Tim Miller
Don't worry on that, Madison.
- [41:05]
Andrew Weissman
But. But again, this just goes to the idea that is this what you want? Is this what you voted for? That you want these people work for us, not vice versa? And that's what's just so outrageous about this.
- [41:21]
Tim Miller
I think, sadly, it is what people voted for. Obviously, I can't not mention the case regarding Andre Romero. Federal Judge Boasberg ruled last Wednesday this group of Venezuelans must be provided a legal avenue to contest the administration's accusations. They're gang members. I appreciate that. Boasberg described the process of these removals as being akin to a scene from the Kafka novel the Trial, which. Which is a good read if people haven't checked that out since college. Again, I don't know what the remediation is for these folks, but it's maybe kind of good.
- [41:55]
Andrew Weissman
No, it is good. You know, we just had our podcast on this justice, and I have to say I'm a little exasperated. I mean, it's a 60 plus page decision that, yes, it does say they can be a class action, but the heart of it is something that I think American citizens are like. Wait a second. You said these people have due process rights and they're entitled to. You have to do something. Government to facilitate their release. And they have a right to. To be heard and to be heard in court. That was already set by the Supreme Court not once, but twice. I was just like, Judge Boseberg, can we move on? I mean, it just read to me like, you need to just get to the point where the government either is going to agree to the court order or not and just have a. Have a fine.
- [42:49]
Tim Miller
And how do you get to that point?
- [42:50]
Andrew Weissman
You have to actually just say, we're doing it. And I think, you know, what he ended up saying is, is okay, I'm going to turn to the government and say, what are you proposing? That could have been done as soon as the Supreme Court said for the first time that their due process rights were violated, or maybe it could have been done right after the second time. And the reason I'm being. You're hearing this exasperation, and I have enormous respect for Judge Boisberg, is these people are still in a godforsaken foreign prison where they were put in violation of due process. That is not me saying that. That's the Supreme Court 9 to 0. So these people's rights are currently being violated. There should be some sense of urgency about remedying it.
- [43:37]
Tim Miller
It's not crazy to say their life is in danger. I mean, talk about urgency. These seamless prison, like we don't have proof of life for Andre and some of these people.
- [43:45]
Andrew Weissman
I mean, can you just think about this? Let's assume that there is one person there who they put there by mistake. And we know that's already true with respect to Abrego Garcia, that he was not supposed to have been taken in violation of a court order. So that means that that person is denied their day in court. The reason for the exasperation on my part is it's hard to imagine if these were people with clout politically in a Different economic and racial composition, that there would be the tolerance for the amount of delay that has gone on while they're stuck in a prison.
- [44:34]
Tim Miller
Amen to that. Okay, last, last. I lied one more. Last immigration one, because we just have to hit it. With regards to Mahmoud Khalil, District Judge Michael Farbiars. Farbiars. There we go. Said he could not be removed or detained. Based on Rubio's determination. The government has till tomorrow morning at this time, at the time of our taping right now to appeal. I saw some folks saying they expect Khalil out in the next week. Where are you at on the Khalil saga?
- [45:01]
Andrew Weissman
You know, we'll see. I mean, I could see them just appealing it on that. I mean, we'll see. The district judge did sort of give the government time to potentially appeal to the Third Circuit. I'm not really sure why they wouldn't do that. The only cases I know where they really haven't appealed is in the law firm cases where I think they've gotten everything they want, so there's no reason for them to appeal.
- [45:28]
Tim Miller
My one piece of good news that I keep trying to bring up when discussing all these immigration cases is with regards to Khalil and so in both the kind of whatever you want to call the Bucket of State Department deciding you're a bad student and we can detain you. Bucket. And the DHS deciding you're a gang member based on your tattoos and we can send you to a foreign gulag. Bucket. And there's no reason to believe that they had planned on stopping where they stopped. Right. Like the Khalil and Oz, Turk and this group, including Andre and others that were sent to Venezuela. Like that was the plan. They were planning on sending more people to El Salvador and they're planning on taking more student leaders. And they haven't yet. Doesn't mean that they. They can't start again between now and when this taping comes out. But it does feel like a win for both the legal and political pushback on this. That kind of. We're still talking about that same initial tranche of cases. Small green. Small silver lining there.
- [46:25]
Andrew Weissman
No, I'd say small silver lining because it hasn't. On those things, it hasn't gotten appreciably worse. But, you know, there's an endless array of outrage to go forward. I mean, the LA piece is just the beginning. You know, this is a point that I'm not the first to make, which is I want to make sure everyone understands the president's directive was not targeted to la. It applies to any place in the country.
- [46:57]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [46:57]
Andrew Weissman
And so, you know, the number one sort of issue that I've been hearing from people about is, or if we participate in a peaceful protest on Saturday or some other time and one person is violent or even somebody foments it to create a ruse, are we all going to get locked up as the military going to suddenly be brought in around the country? And the idea that that's what we're talking about is that kind of chilling effect on the First Amendment is. I mean, it's hard for me to do the optimistic ending.
- [47:36]
Tim Miller
Okay, way to just take my silver lining and just, like, throw it in the trash compactor and turn on the. Like, we're shredding it.
- [47:47]
Andrew Weissman
I'm basically going to like, what planet are you on?
- [47:51]
Tim Miller
Okay, great. It's fine. It is in the spirit of the Borg podcast. Listener and fan gave me a button at the Nashville event that said, it gets worse before it gets worse, which I liked.
- [48:03]
Rodney Williams
I'm Rodney Williams.
- [48:05]
Travis Holloway
And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance.
- [48:11]
Rodney Williams
Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone.
- [48:15]
Andrew Weissman
I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.
- [48:19]
Travis Holloway
To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories.
- [48:23]
Andrew Weissman
What happens when it doesn't go right?
- [48:24]
Tim Miller
How do you cope with it?
- [48:26]
Rodney Williams
Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same.
- [48:32]
Travis Holloway
Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.
- [48:41]
Tim Miller
You might not have anything on this, but every time I have a lawyer on, I'm like, cause I can't follow this. Is there anything on the Doge cases, like all the firings of federal officials? Has there been any progress on any of that? Or is that all just Jimmy and its way through the courts?
- [48:56]
Andrew Weissman
It is going its way through the courts, but that is, again, just to give you bad news. I mean, it's pretty clear the Supreme Court is going to overrule this case called Humphreys Executor. It sounds really nerdy, but it's not. Because what it means is that the executive, the White House, will have more power to get rid of people and to have more political operatives in government and have fewer independent bodies. And that's like, the last thing we need.
- [49:30]
Tim Miller
Two other random items just for you that are just kind of in what I would call the Andrew Weissman remit. The FBI director, Cash Patel filed a lawsuit in Texas. If you saw this against an MSNBC colleague of ours, Frank Flugluzzi. Patel is suing him for quote, fabricating a specific lie about him in response to Flugluzzi saying that he's been more visible at nightclubs than on the seventh floor of the Hoo. I guess Patel is saying he's not been to a nightclub. So that's the basis of the lawsuit. I don't know. The free speech absolutists, pretty alarming that the FBI director, a lot on his plate would be suing a pundit. So I don't know. On the other hand, sorry to Frank, I guess I'd probably rather him be spending his time on stupid shit like this and going to hockey games than the most nefarious things he could be doing. But I don't know what. Do you have any thoughts on that? That this lawsuit?
- [50:24]
Andrew Weissman
So yeah, I had not seen that, but this is what I would say, having been in government, you know, you go into government, you develop a thick skin, you're going to be criticized by people.
- [50:38]
Tim Miller
You criticized at all at the Mueller, during the Mueller investigation?
- [50:41]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah.
- [50:41]
Tim Miller
Weren't you? Yeah. I mean any, any non factual critiques of you from anyone across the entire entire, you know, punditocracy?
- [50:50]
Andrew Weissman
I guess it might. Let's see, who can I think of who might have done that? Well, yeah, wait, the President. So, you know, like I've been called scum, a really bad guy. Steve Miller called me a degenerate and a moron. And here's the thing, when you're in government, you develop a thick skin and you know you're going to get batted around on all different sides. And that's why the mantra is just sort of like you keep your head down and you, you have to just be trying to do the right thing all the time. And if you get called on it, that's your defense is like that's what you're trying to do. So it's just such poor form. And I think the biggest concern I have is the chilling effect of bringing things like that. Again, there's no adult in the room.
- [51:35]
Tim Miller
I want to ask you about that, but it seems like what you're saying is that Kash Patel is a thin skinned beta cuck. I think that would be the technical term for it. But I'm not going to put that into your mouth.
- [51:45]
Andrew Weissman
You're going to be like, what is it a co defect of Frank's.
- [51:50]
Tim Miller
Now I don't think that there's any factual statement that's true that can be Objected to there. I guess he could. Maybe he's taking a test. I wouldn't put it past somebody like Cash, a little guy like that, to have taken a test that proves that he's an alpha. Maybe he's taken, like a testosterone test and that he can bring to the court and say, this is not true. I was defamed by a podcaster who said I was low T, but I had a doctor show that I'm high ticket. That's possible.
- [52:16]
Andrew Weissman
Yeah.
- [52:17]
Tim Miller
Are you thinking about that at all when you're popping off these days? Are you feeling chilled?
- [52:22]
Andrew Weissman
I'm not. Because my view is. I mean, I think it is more important than ever to be speaking out. And, you know, this is going to sound a little, you know, soapboxy and Pollyannish, but you and I are privileged to be able to do this. And I think the reason that, like, a lot of people come up to me to thank me, but I think what they're really thanking is, like, somebody we're allowed to voice something that they're thinking and thinking they're alone. And so, you know, I just think that is incumbent. Obviously, we have to be. You should be careful about what you say. But that's. That was. That's always true.
- [53:05]
Tim Miller
So I agree with this. No, they're trying to. And everybody's just more sensitive now. Like, there's just stuff I hear about, stuff that I hadn't heard about, you know, like, well, is this thing exactly right? You know, like when you're using. Using figures of speech or. I'm not going to be bullied by these little guys. If he wants to go to the Texas, I'm in Louisiana. I don't know if the Louisiana district will be as favorable to him. You'd think there's some free speech judges out there that are like, you know, I think that we can have a little bit still in this country. As of right now, as of June 12, you can call the FBI Director Low T without worry that you're going to be jailed. So that's something that I can do and will do.
- [53:37]
Andrew Weissman
Let's just remember when you're a public, you know, a public figure, and obviously the FBI director is. I mean, really, he. He thinks that Frank or anybody, you have to be willing to show actual malice. And there are all sorts of things.
- [53:52]
Tim Miller
He knew for a fact, he'd never been to a nightclub. He'd seen his whole calendar. He knew that he'd never been there. And then he met. And it would have to be that level of knowledge but we've seen other guys fold. I mean, that was true in some of these other cases with the media folks, which I don't want to get into. Okay, Fun final topic, which is in the Andrew Eisen remit. I assume you're a musical person. I know you're opera. Do you do musicals as well?
- [54:15]
Andrew Weissman
I'm more concert than an opera, but I do, since I'm a New Yorker, I go to the theater a lot. And that's like, that's straight. Plays, musicals, everything, all of it.
- [54:26]
Tim Miller
Okay. Longtime listeners of the POD would know that I'm not a musical gay. It's the one part of gay culture I just am a total zero on. Yesterday, the president and vice president went to see a musical at the Kennedy center and wait.
- [54:44]
Andrew Weissman
They went to see, as I understood it, Les Miserables.
- [54:48]
Tim Miller
Yeah, Right. I don't know what that is.
- [54:50]
Andrew Weissman
You know what that's about?
- [54:51]
Tim Miller
I don't.
- [54:51]
Andrew Weissman
Do you know what that's about?
- [54:52]
Tim Miller
I don't. Which is the point of where I'm going. So stick with it. Hold it for one second. I don't know what it's about, and here's why. And I want to demonstrate to you. J.D. vance sent a tweet about his attendance, and he wrote this about. To see Les Miserables is how you pronounce it, according to Andrew, about To see Les Miserables with POTUS at the Kennedy Center. Me to Usha. So what's this about a barber who kills people, question mark, Usha. Hysterical laughter. There are a couple of issues with this tweet for me because I don't understand what's funny about it, because I don't know what happens in Les Miserables. And I assume maybe there was a Barbara. I don't know. I don't know what's in the movie. And my colleague Sonny Bunch points out that this is the kind of thing that you put out if you do know what happened in Les Miserables, actually, but you are too embarrassed to admit that you're into fancy boys plays. And it seems like J.D. vance is doing that. He's pretending that he doesn't know because I literally don't understand the joke. So I'm hoping you can explain it to me.
- [55:51]
Andrew Weissman
I can't. And it is true that he. I think I agree with your colleague who says that he's doing this because he does know, but it's not for the reason that you're suggesting. Okay, so one that. Is it about a barber who kills people? That's based on the Stephen Sondheim musical Sweeney Todd, which was about Sweeney Todd, was a barber who killed people. And then they got chopp put into.
- [56:14]
Tim Miller
So J.D. vance wanted to prove that he didn't know about musicals by referencing an even lesser known niche musical that I'd never heard of.
- [56:22]
Andrew Weissman
Can I just say, never repeat that again, because, like, it is, like, an incredibly good Stephen Sondheim. Do you know who Stephen Sondheim is?
- [56:29]
Tim Miller
I've heard the name Stephen Sondheim. I know that he's a person that exists. If you said the category in jeopardy was Stephen Sondheim plays, and then the first question was name one, I would have been unable to do that until right now. I could do Steve. Sweeney Todd, I guess.
- [56:45]
Andrew Weissman
So. Okay. For all of the people who are watching this who are shocked beyond belief, the OGs now.
- [56:52]
Tim Miller
All right.
- [56:52]
Andrew Weissman
Okay, we're gonna. We're gonna have to do a little remedial help, but okay, so that's. He was referencing Stephen Sondheim's Sweeney Todd, which, by the way, they got chopped up and they got put into meat pies, and then people ate them. So it was a cannibalism musical.
- [57:10]
Tim Miller
Okay. It's kind of hot.
- [57:11]
Andrew Weissman
But the reason he was doing this is Les Miserables is about the French Revolution, and it's about the people rising up against a king who is an authoritarian. So the idea that you have him have tanks going through Washington D.C. in a military parade on Saturday, he has. Is that 4700 military people being called in. You know, it's like a bazooka to go after a fly in la. And he's issuing all these orders, and he's going off to see Les Miserables is. I mean, you know, this. What do you say, irony is now? Or satire is now dead?
- [57:55]
Tim Miller
I mean, Trump is a theater queen, so he knows, like, does he not understand? Does he. Does he think that the. Again, I don't know the plot, so maybe I'm missing it. Does he not. Does he think maybe the people to get overthrown or the heroes. Does he think the king is a hero?
- [58:06]
Andrew Weissman
The king doesn't come off well in Les Miserables because you know what happened.
- [58:10]
Tim Miller
But could he be confused? Could Trump be confused?
- [58:13]
Andrew Weissman
You know what happens in the French Revolution to the king? Let's just say I do. His head and the rest of him are separated.
- [58:21]
Tim Miller
So maybe Trump doesn't. Maybe doesn't identify with the king and thinks he's a nicer person. I don't know. What do you think is going through his little head? Like, what are the little Flies, you know, buzzing around up there.
- [58:31]
Andrew Weissman
What does this make America have? The guillotine again?
- [58:34]
Tim Miller
I'm not going to say what I would have thought about that because I don't want Cash Patel coming after me. The guillotine, that's something to look into, I would say. I don't know. I'm open. It's kind of similar to my thoughts about Sicot and El Salvador. It's something that I'm against until I start thinking about sending Marco there. And then all of a sudden, I'm.
- [58:51]
Andrew Weissman
Like, huh, you have a future in this administration.
- [58:55]
Tim Miller
No, Andrew Wiseman. That's the meanest thing you could say. I kept you too long. You're on holiday. But it was enjoyable. It was kind of like a vacation circling around to the beginning. You had fun?
- [59:05]
Andrew Weissman
I did okay.
- [59:07]
Tim Miller
All right, well, thanks, brother. Enjoy the vacation. There'll be a lot of legal issues upcoming, so I'm sure we'll be having you back soon. Okay, Take care, everybody else. We'll be back here for another edition of the Bulwark Podcast tomorrow with one of your faves. We'll see you all then. Peace.
- [59:22]
Musical Reference
Off with your head.
- [59:26]
Tim Miller
Dance to the.
- [59:27]
Musical Reference
Dead head of roll heads of roll has a roll on the floor Glitter on the wet streets silver over everything the river's all wet you're all dripping with alchemy shivers stop shivering the glitters all wet you rock. The man cried out, the girls cried out the man cried out the girls cried out the man cried out, oh, no the man cried out the girls cried out the man cried out the girls cried out the man cried out, oh, no.
- [61:26]
Tim Miller
The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.
- [61:33]
Rodney Williams
I'm Rodney Williams.
- [61:34]
Travis Holloway
And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Welco Break.
- [61:37]
Rodney Williams
Let's be honest. Building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle, and relying on your community to create something bigger.
- [61:51]
Travis Holloway
And that's exactly why we created the Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles, and real wins.
- [62:02]
Rodney Williams
We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learn to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six figure business. We're bringing you their stories, and we're.
- [62:21]
Travis Holloway
Not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risk, how to navigate through failure, and why resilience matters. Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same.
- [62:36]
Rodney Williams
So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place.
- [62:43]
Travis Holloway
Listen to the Wealthbreak podcast on the iHeartRadio app.
- [62:49]
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