The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: "Angie Craig and Glenn Thrush: Don’t Be Called Weak Sauce"

Release Date: September 24, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guests:

• Rep. Angie Craig (D-MN, U.S. Senate candidate)
• Glenn Thrush (New York Times journalist, DOJ beat)

Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller welcomes Rep. Angie Craig for a candid conversation about Democratic strategy in swing and rural districts, agricultural policy, the Republican-driven government shutdown, and messaging on cultural and pocketbook issues. Later, Glenn Thrush of the New York Times joins to provide a deep dive into the escalating politicization of the Department of Justice under President Trump’s administration, rare prosecutorial moves, and shifting priorities at main justice.

Segment 1: Rep. Angie Craig - Democratic Strategy, Ag Policy, Messaging, and More

[02:15 – 38:13]

Angie Craig - Backstory and Persona

• Craig is the first Democrat to hold her district for more than two terms, repeatedly winning a previously long-held Republican seat.
• Known for building strong relationships across the aisle and with fellow swing district Democrats, and for outperforming expectations in tough electoral environments.
• Light-hearted exchange about personal life, being a lesbian mother of four, contrasting stereotypes with her real, down-to-earth family life.
  • Notable Quote:
    “I'm a young Mimi. That's all I got to say.” — Angie Craig [05:00]

Government Shutdown Dynamics

• Tim Miller expresses ambivalence regarding the Democratic negotiating stance and dilemma of blame over a potential shutdown.
• Angie urges Democratic leaders not to be “cheap dates” or “weak sauce”:
  • “Don’t be a cheap date. You know, don’t... cave. Care more about democracy than decorum.” — Craig [05:53]
  • Emphasizes Republicans’ push for Medicaid cuts and soaring healthcare costs, especially pointing to Minnesota’s experience of ACA-related premium increases.
  • Argues Democrats must fight, not for politics, but constituents, especially on healthcare affordability.
• Discussion of the strategic challenge: whether or not to let the public feel consequences from Republican healthcare policies.
  • “If we as Democrats aren’t going to stand up and fight for all these costs going up for our constituents, you know, I think we're going to continue to be called weak sauce.” — Craig [05:53]

Democratic Messaging, Leadership, and Rural Ag Politics

• Craig reflects on the need for leadership to show fight, especially for working people and farmers adversely affected by tariffs and Trump’s Ag policies.
  • Family farm bankruptcies have spiked, soy markets collapsed, and Minnesota’s rural voters feel the pain.
  • “The tariffs are absolutely destroying Minnesota farmers right now.... Bankruptcies are up 95%.” — Craig [09:41]
• She notes a misstep in Democratic messaging—rubbing in “I told you so” approaches only alienates possible converts from Trump’s base.
  • “If you say ‘Oh my God, you guys were really wrong,’ I mean, what does that do? You don’t even get to another sentence of a conversation.” — Craig [14:13]

Electoral Strategy for Democrats in Red/Rural America

• Craig illustrates there’s a pathway to winning back rural and swing voters, if Dems focus on everyday issues and don’t demand homogeneity from their candidates.
  • “If we can turn 7-10% of them, Kamala and Tim, they won my district by 5 points. I won it by 14 points in a really bad election year.” — Craig [15:16]
• Argues that Dems need to give candidates space to tailor messages on guns, policing, and kitchen table economics.
  • “We can't go around bitching about people running in these swing seats.... Otherwise, we can’t stop Republicans, we can’t govern.” — Craig [16:39]
• On branding: Democrats hurt themselves with “defund the police” messaging and by not prioritizing voter concerns about safety and affordability.
  • “If they think we aren’t committed to keeping their family safe, they’re just not going to do it.” — Craig [18:03]

On MAHA (Make America Healthy Again) and Agricultural Policy

• Discusses Trump and RFK Jr.’s “MAHA” push and the clownish “autism press conference”.
  • “I have a 22-year-old son... on the autism spectrum. This could not be more personal to me and my wife... I have called on Robert F. Kennedy to resign, to get the hell out, to stop giving medical advice. You are not a doctor.” — Craig [23:06]
• Critiques administration for undercutting farm-to-school and nutrition programs while posturing on health and pesticide issues.
  • “When you cut $186 billion from the SNAP program... you’re also directly cutting $25 billion in farm revenue.” — Craig [25:44]
• On identity and winning in red areas:
  • “If you go into these Republican spaces and you make it about them and their lives, they don't give a damn who you’re married to.” — Craig [27:13]

On Autism Advocacy

• Condemns anti-autistic rhetoric from RFK Jr. and allies, emphasizing the dignity and capability of people on the spectrum.
  • “Don’t tell me that my 22-year-old son... is somehow not going to be a productive member of our society.... They’re neurodiverse. We have to figure out how we help them have meaningful lives.” — Craig [31:12]
  • “Don’t piss us [IEP moms] off because we will come with everything we have to push back.” — Craig [32:35]

Crypto Policy and Democratic Divergence

• Craig is the only Democrat speaking at a major crypto conference; supports regulation for consumer protection, points to the dangers of Trump’s family participating in unregulated markets.
  • “If we just continue to not have any regulatory structure in place, then those Americans have absolutely no consumer protection.” — Craig [33:10]
  • Calls for broader conflict-of-interest laws: “We should absolutely have a law that says the president, the vice president, the administration, cannot participate in markets. It's corrupt.”
• Tim airs skepticism about crypto as a scam-ridden space; Craig maintains guardrails are overdue.
• Craig admits most Democrats are still getting up to speed on crypto: “Most Democrats are on a learning curve.” [37:33]

Segment 2: Glenn Thrush – DOJ Under Trump: Prosecutions, Personnel, and Priorities

[38:45 – 57:36]

Overview of DOJ Politicization

• Glenn explains President Trump is directly demanding prosecutions of political enemies (Tish James, Adam Schiff, John Bolton, James Comey) despite lack of evidence.
  • “The President of the United States is demanding his Attorney General prosecute enemies solely because he says they are guilty.” — Glenn Thrush [39:04]
• Career prosecutors and even Trump appointees refuse to bring unfounded cases.
• DOJ's top brass (Pam Bondi, Todd Blanche) have pushed back, but Trump continues pressuring for action.

DOJ Personnel Drama: The Eastern District of Virginia

• Eric Siebert, a Trump appointee, balked at baseless prosecutions; replaced by Lindsey Halligan, a 36-year-old with no prosecutorial experience, seemingly selected to carry out Trump’s wishes.
• Internal chaos marked by sudden and confusing leadership changes, with political loyalty prioritized over prosecutorial credentials.
• “It seems like the Tish James mortgage prosecution in EDVA, if not dead, is on life support.” — Thrush [45:16]
• Prosecutions now subject to overt White House direction; public reporting may have shielded some Trump targets from malicious prosecution.

Pursuit of Trump’s Enemies and the Erosion of Rule of Law

• Specifics on ongoing efforts to indict James Comey; statute of limitations is running out.
• Trump's firing of Comey and his daughter Maureen Comey (child sex predator prosecutor) highlighted, with Article II as the legal pretext.
  • Notable Quote: “These things... may seem very procedural and arcane, [but] are in fact, seminal to rule of law.” — Thrush [49:02]
• Trump’s team uses Article II powers to justify terminations with no cause, creating a chilling environment at DOJ.

The Human Toll and Office Vibes at DOJ

• Thrush reports DOJ’s career staff are demoralized, decimated, talking openly about leaving, seeking liability insurance.
  • “Can you imagine a workplace in which people were just being fired because the big boss didn't like them, heard a rumor about him?” — Thrush [53:53]
• Mass firings without cause, even of top performers, are now routine.
• “The Public Integrity Unit... doesn’t exist anymore. There were 35... now under four.” — Thrush [56:41]
• Trump focusing DOJ’s energy on prosecuting political foes and de-emphasizing white-collar and public corruption crime.
  • “Trump has devalued white collar crime in general and public corruption cases particularly.” — Thrush [56:42]

Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Don’t be called weak sauce; don’t be a cheap date: Craig’s rallying cry for Democratic leaders to stand firm against Republican extremism. [05:53]
• On rural voters:
  “I know this isn’t what you voted for. That completely disarms them.” — Craig [14:37]
• On Democratic branding:
  “It would be better if the party wasn’t branded in some ways as the defund the police party.” — Craig [19:59]
• On autism rhetoric:
  “Don’t tell me that... my 22-year-old son... is somehow not going to be a productive member of our society.” — Craig [31:12]
• On DOJ priorities:
  “Trump has devalued white collar crime in general and public corruption cases particularly.” — Thrush [56:42]
• On DOJ morale:
  “All of them are sort of looking for liability insurance to increase the insurance that they take out to protect themselves.” — Thrush [52:24]

Key Timestamps

• Campaigning and persona: 03:09 – 05:05
• Shutdown, health care, and Dem strategy: 05:53 – 09:41
• Rural politics & farm policy: 11:27 – 15:16
• Culture wars & Dem messaging: 15:57 – 18:03
• Dem branding & policing: 19:59 – 20:25
• MAHA, autism, & farm programs: 23:06 – 28:13
• Crypto regulation debate: 33:03 – 37:33
• Glenn Thrush on DOJ weaponization: 39:04 – 44:48
• Halligan/EDVA details: 44:48 – 46:46
• Comey/DOJ firings: 47:08 – 50:14
• DOJ morale/”Public Integrity” collapse: 51:47 – 56:42

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a vivid snapshot of the current American political moment: Democrats wrestling with messaging and coalition-building as a hard-right GOP leverages culture war and economic wedge issues—and, on the other hand, a first-hand journalistic account of how the rule of law is shifting under executive overreach at DOJ. Both segments highlight the urgency of elections, the power of everyday issues, and the stakes for democratic institutions in the coming cycle.