The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Ashley St. Clair and Cameron Kasky: Leaving the MAGA Cult
Air Date: March 17, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guests: Ashley St. Clair, Cameron Kasky

Overview

In this double-header episode, Tim Miller talks with two former youth activists who have stepped away from their earlier political identities:
Part 1: Ashley St. Clair — ex-TPUSA provocateur, former right-wing influencer, and mother of one of Elon Musk’s children — shares her journey from being deep in the MAGA movement to breaking away and now leading public legal fights regarding AI harms and online harassment.
Part 2: Cameron Kasky — cofounder of March for Our Lives and former candidate for New York’s 12th congressional district — discusses his recent fact-finding trip to Palestine, his work on human rights legislation, and the tectonic shifts in progressive and Democratic politics.

Part 1: Ashley St. Clair—Leaving the MAGA Cult

Ashley’s “Villain Origin Story”

[02:41-04:24]

• Began activism in college campus groups like Young Americans for Liberty before joining Turning Point USA.
• Attracted attention for being the “token conservative” and was drawn to the “contrarian” appeal and the online validation that came with being provocative.
• The digital ecosystem provided instant feedback: “You're 18, nobody’s listening to you, and suddenly you have 10,000, 40,000 [followers]... all of these people are liking my things. They think I'm important, they think I'm smart. That was formative for me.” (Ashley, [05:48])

The Mechanics of Right-Wing Influencer Culture

[06:39-11:28]

• Early amplification by figures like Mike Cernovich and Jack Posobiec led to rapid growth.
• Much of the right-wing influencer sphere is “subsidized by wealthy donors” through hard-to-trace payments for content, promotion of cabinet picks, or political messaging.
• “There’s a lot of dark money groups… they will pay you just to put out messaging. And there’s no rules… to even put notification that it’s an ad because it’s just messaging.” (Ashley, [10:53])

Monetization, College Dropout, and Vulnerabilities

[09:03-10:47]

• Dropped out of college encouraged by movement rhetoric that devalues higher education, something she later regretted.
• “I have regrets that I repeated those talking points that people shouldn't go to school... There's something similar to an abusive relationship, where if you quit your job, you can't leave—it keeps people within that cycle.” (Ashley, [09:27])
• Most of her income came from campaign or production work, not direct influencer monetization.

Manipulation and Echo Chambers

[07:14-08:17]

• Discussed the “nut picking” tendency—seeking out caricatures of the opposition to confirm bias and feed outrage.
• “It kind of feeds into itself where you want to find [the crazy leftist] to show everyone that it's real. And you have veterans ... saying, ‘good job, patriot.’ That makes you feel important.” (Ashley, [07:40-08:18])

The Elon Musk Chapter

[12:50-18:37]

• St. Clair recounted her entry into Musk’s orbit and the surreal scale of his influence.
• “You know, you're kind of like, I have girl bossed way too close to the sun...” ([16:51])
• She discussed the mix of philosophical and extravagant conversations, the intoxicating nature of proximity to “something so much bigger,” and the eventual awakening to red flags—both personal and societal.
• “There's red flags where you're like, this could harm a lot of people.” ([17:01])
• On Musk’s constant posting: “He posts all night. Yes, it's all him. All his posts are written by him.” ([17:46])

Legal Battles & AI Harms

[21:14-26:27]

• Ashley is now embroiled in legal battles with Musk, both over child custody and over XAI products generating AI-generated porn and non-consensual images.
• She described discovering AI-manipulated nudes of herself—as well as minors—propagated by “GROK,” Musk’s company.
• “Within our lawsuit against xai... anybody with an X account needs to know that you may be jeopardizing your chances at holding this company accountable.” ([23:52])
• Warned about the ways X’s terms of service can limit victims’ ability to sue.
• Noted that issues remain rampant and little has changed in company behavior.

Reflections on MAGA, Manipulation, and Regret

[27:49-29:29]

• “It was very helpful to get off the Internet for a while... your access to information, frankly lived reality, is really important for having views outside of these things.” (Ashley, [27:49])
• Noted how individuals can feel “stuck,” especially if their community and economic identity are tied up in the movement.
• “There is also a mass manipulation campaign going on. I don’t think that should be downplayed... More and more of these tech bros buying up our media platforms because it’s so valuable to hold your attention and hold the keys to perception.” ([29:29])

Examples of What’s Gone Wrong

[29:36-32:23]

• Ashley pointed to ICE, the economy, foreign policy, and Trump’s betrayals as areas where she feels the “movement” has become egregiously out of step with its selling points.
• “What's happening with ICE... we're having people who cared about immigration and we have Trump gold cards and normal people are being rounded up and sent to El Salvador. It's disgusting. We have American citizens being shot on the streets by ICE.” ([29:36])

On How to Reach Women Leaving MAGA

[39:45-42:06]

• “The right has a big issue festering underneath in terms of the sentiment against women... A lot of women from the right keep in communication with me... they're waking up to the fact that they've also been had, that they've been used as pawns.”
• “It is a cult. And what you have to understand is in any abusive relationship… your access to other people, you're very isolated.” (Ashley, [40:37])
• Advised compassion and “holding space” for reformed members, regardless of how late they may come to awareness.

Her Evolution and Core Values

[45:07-46:32]

• “I would say no” (to holding onto any MAGA elements). Her remaining values—for example, supporting free speech—are “just American,” not maga.
• Sees the movement’s wealth and power up close: “To be in the rooms with the wealthiest people in the world and they're talking about socialism being handouts... that kind of flips a switch in you.”

Notable Quotes

• “I have girl bossed way too close to the sun.” (Ashley, [16:51])
• “It actually is a good thing to grow and say, ‘I was really wrong and I'm sorry, and let's all try to have a clearer picture of what's happening right now.’” (Ashley, [37:59])
• “These very lukewarm (Democratic) candidates who aren’t offering accountability... Democrats need to take a hard look and start offering more social programs and holding these corporations accountable.” ([46:59])

Memorable Moments

• On the “harem”: “I wish the harem would unionize, honestly... but he's quite the union buster.” (Ashley on Musk, [18:20])
• On parenting: “My son has said that he has crabs in his pocket that he will throw at people if they’re not wearing green. So the crabs are doing the pinching.” ([50:44])

Part 2: Cameron Kasky — From Activism to Palestine, Progressive Primary Politics

Trip to Palestine, West Bank

[54:03-62:00]

• Kasky’s first-ever trip abroad (at the suggestion of critics): “A lot of people in my district were saying, well, if you care so much about the people over in Palestine, why don’t you go over there and see how they feel about you, Jewish boy. So I went over there and it turns out they like me way more than they like me in my congressional district.” ([54:03])
• Described life under occupation: checkpoints, settler violence, raids, and infrastructure choked off from communities.
• “The West Bank operation is very much death by a thousand cuts... It's a slower, more meticulous process that involves going after water sources, energy grids, all these different things...” ([56:15])

Human Rights Legislation

[62:00-65:44]

• Working with Ro Khanna on a resolution targeting the ongoing abuses in the West Bank: settlement demolition, land confiscation under “archeology” pretexts, infrastructure that isolates Palestinian communities.
• “Every single bullet fired by Israeli forces... we’re all chipping into that, you know. And I can't say the same thing about Barbecue's gang in Port Au Prince.” (Cameron, discussing US funding, [65:28])

Progressive Primaries & Outside Money

[65:48-73:08]

• Discussed the outsize influence of AIPAC, AI, and crypto money in Democratic primaries from Illinois to New York.
• On influencers being paid to shift public opinion: “Influencers getting paid $1,500 per post to shit-talk Kat [Abu Ghazale].” ([71:11])
• On AI lobbies: “My AI take is basically destroy every AI data center. Alex Borres is like, make sure your children aren’t making child porn on AI. Apparently he’s just like this huge fucking threat to them.” ([72:01])

Redemptive Power and Political Change

[74:38-78:58]

• On redemption and growth: “One of the most classic themes in a story of all time is: can a man change?... All of the happy stories end with the answer yes, and all of the tragedies end with no… I think a lot of people want to believe in the redemptive power of the human spirit.” (Cameron, [74:38])
• Relevance for ex-MAGA figures, and people grappling with their own transformation: “If we were all defined by our lowest moments, we would not be in good positions. Anybody listening to this can think of the worst decisions you've ever made... If somebody tried to say, that's you, that's who you are, you would say, absolutely not.” ([78:28])

Notable Quotes

• “I have no idea whether that will work. Like, I truly don’t.” (Tim, on negative campaign ads in the current environment, [74:38])
• “If we were all defined by our lowest moments, we would not be in good positions.” (Cameron, [78:28])
• “It's not moggable.” (Cameron, on the podcast’s lack of "looksmaxxing" appeal, [79:36])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ashley’s origin story & online rise: [02:41-07:40]

• Right-wing influencer economy: [05:48-12:08]

• On leaving MAGA/echo chambers: [27:49-31:14]

• AI “GROK” lawsuit & terms of service warnings: [21:14-24:37]

• Critiques of Trumpism/growing disillusionment: [29:36-32:23]

• On reaching out to ex-MAGA women: [39:45-42:06]

• Advice to Democrats: [46:59]

• Ashley’s reflection & hopes for her children: [49:28-50:44]

• Kasky’s Palestine trip & human rights bill: [54:03-65:44]

• Democratic primaries, outside money: [65:48-73:08]

• Redemption and change: [74:38-79:35]

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is candid, introspective, and at times irreverent. Both St. Clair and Kasky exhibit humility regarding their own missteps, and offer an insider perspective on manipulation, media ecosystems, and the difficulty of breaking free from ideological “cults.”
St. Clair’s journey is a cautionary tale about the seductive power of online affirmation, the danger of dark money, and the need for real accountability in tech. Kasky’s work highlights the international human impact of American policy—and how reform requires not only clear-eyed advocacy, but a willingness to reassess personal and political positions.

Memorable closing note from Ashley:
“My son has said that he has crabs in his pocket that he will throw at people if they're not wearing green. So the crabs are doing the pinching. He's outsourced the pinching to his minion crabs.” ([50:44], Ashley St. Clair)

For listeners:
This story isn’t just about two “leavers”—it’s a guide to understanding how identity, ideology, and disinformation become entwined, and why breaking away is both harrowing and essential. The episode invites both empathy for the process of change, and urgency in confronting the machinery that exploits online communities and American politics.