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- [00:00]
Tim Miller
Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team.
- [00:03]
Ben Stiller
If big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the F are you talking about?
- [00:15]
Tim Miller
You insane Hollywood.
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Ben Stiller
So to recap, we're cutting the price.
- [00:18]
Tim Miller
Of mint unlimited from $30 a month.
- [00:20]
Ben Stiller
To just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch.
- [00:25]
Tim Miller
$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month.
- [00:27]
Ben Stiller
New customers on first three month plan only.
- [00:28]
Tim Miller
Taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40 GB.
- [00:30]
Ben Stiller
Details.
- [00:30]
Tim Miller
Hey everybody. I know it was a little bleak yesterday, so I got a treat for you and for me. Ben Stiller wanted to come on the pod we'd been DMing. He does a lot of work with refugees and everything that's in the news with USAID and everything. I was like, man, John, come on, we can talk about your work doing that, but then also take a little break, do some Hollywood chat. It wasn't maybe quite as light affair as I wanted, but there are at least some laughs for everybody. So I hope you enjoy it. We are taping this on Tuesday afternoon because I'm headed out to Palm Springs for a book festival for the rest of the week. And so if something happens between Tuesday night and Wednesday morning that wasn't covered here, you'll know why. But before we get to Ben, I just had a few stray thoughts on some news items I just wanted to share with everybody. The first one is it's kind of an action item. Tom Malinowski, former congressman from New Jersey. I think we're going to hopefully have him on the pod here in the next couple weeks to talk about this at greater length. But he has a really, really great piece in the bulwark that was out on Tuesday morning called five Things Dems Must do to Fight Trump. Now go check that out if you haven't, because it gives a real an action plan. And I know there are a lot of people that feel maybe lost, including elected Dems and some Dems strategists that I've been talking to. Tom gives some real tangible things folks can do. And reading it, it buoyed me a little bit where I was like, yeah, that's a great idea. That's a good idea. Yeah, this is manageable. I mean, it's bad. All the things Ann was worried about are worth worrying about. But there's some countervailing influences that the Dems can leverage, including the courts and the people that Biden put on the court recently, but also some strategies from Congress. So hopefully we can talk too Tom, about that at greater length. But you should go read the article regardless. Two other just sort of news items I wanted to jump on. On Friday, I guess it was I gave the plea to Bill Cassidy to do the right thing. My senator here from Louisiana acknowledging during the plea that I wasn't exactly optimistic. But you know, I was thinking there was at least a chance as they might say, and dumb and dumber, different oughts comedy from the ones we're going to be discussing on this podcast. I was thinking there was a chance. Well, there wasn't a chance. Bill Cassidy caved to Trump. Somebody that absolutely knows better, has demonstrated that he knows better when it comes to vaccines, when it comes to public health, agreed to put RFK Jr. A complete quack, unqualified conspiracy theorist in charge of the Health and Human Services Department. He got through in committee on a party line vote. Cassidy was the one who could have stopped it. By the time this publishes, we might have a schedule for when the actual floor vote will be. But at this point it seems pretty clear that RFK is going to be Secretary of Health and Human Services. Similarly, maybe not 100% but probably 95% likelihood at this point that Tulsi Gabbard is going to be the Director of National Intelligence. A total fold on this one. We talked about this a little bit with Anne on the podcast yesterday. But across the board, not just Cassidy, Lankford, Susan Collins, in the case of Gabbard, unbelievable. Well believable but you know, unbelievable in the sense of unfucking believable. Susan Collins and who else? Todd Young, all are going to say that they're going to vote to confirm Gabbard. So there's that one last topic. There's been a lot of discussion and Ann and I made some jokes about it and a bunch of everybody's making jokes about it, which are these little 22 year old wizards that Elon has running around running roughshod over our government, you know, using AI to figure out, you know, which government functions should be completely shut down. They've had some success obviously with usaid. There was news out here late Tuesday from CBS saying that USAID missions overseas have been told to shut down. All staff are being recalled to the US this new USAID deputy who I've mentioned on the pod, Peter Morocco, who is an insurrectionist in the Capitol on January 6, he told State Department leadership if they didn't come back to America, they'd be evacuated by the military. So that's pretty ominous. So we've got these little 20 somethings running around shutting down USAID, getting into the treasury payment systems. And there's been a little bit of pushback about the snark targeting these young men. They are all men. I should mention among the pushback, there's this video, I'm going to put it here in the show notes about this guy Luke, who is one of these young guys and he seems brilliant. I mean, he was using AI to uncover language, previously unread language on these ancient scrolls, deciphering these stories. The first word that they discovered in these ancient Greek scrolls that had been burned was purple. I mean, the guy seems super excited, super smart, super earnest. And I understand like the instinct to be like, wait a minute, like let's not tear people down. They aren't responsible for Elon's sins. I'm sympathetic to that, you know, I really am. I look at these videos, I'm like, wow, this, this kid is amazing. This is exactly the kind of kid you'd want working in the government in a different situation. And that's like the element of this in a different situation. Some of the other guys, I've been having people send me links to their social media feeds. They've been retweeting Nick Fuentes, who's this neo Nazi, Nazi youth, whatever you want to call it, groiper Nazi adjacent. This young kind of white identity politics. The leader of this kind of young men who play white identity politics, who make a lot of racist and conspiratorial statements. Some of these other guys are retweeting a Quintus. So Luke might be great. Some of the other people Elon has doing this might be racist or trolls or not great, I don't know, it doesn't fucking matter is the thing. Like we have laws, we have ways that government should work. 22 year old Wunderkins who have not had security clearance should not be implementing mass firings of career USAID servants who are running around throughout the world advancing American soft power, helping people, advancing freedom, helping, you know, actually make people healthy. Not in the maha sense, but in the sense of providing medicine to troubled displaced people who need it. I mean a lot of people out there that are doing really good work, earnest workers that shouldn't be bullied by 22 year olds who are being sent into the government as if this is a private equity firm that's stripping down a company for parts. Like we have laws, we have regulations, there are ways to go about this. If there are programs that don't work, they have a Republican fucking Congress and Senate that could pass a piece of legislation that does whatever they want. Shutter usaid if you want, pass it through the House and Senate. Use reconciliation. Get Donald Trump to sign it. Okay, like, that's not what there's a. You know, the fact that a couple of these, you know, kids might be smart and earnest does not make their mission a noble one. It is not. Does not alibi the fact that Elon Musk is doing this in a way that is extra legal. So I just wanted to take an opportunity to weigh in on that since I didn't want to burden Ben Stiller with that. Ben Stiller is unburdened by what is happening with 22 year olds in the Department of Treasury. Unfortunately, I'm not. And so after this, I will pass it over to Ben. We do Severance. We'll dodgeball at the very end. You get him to tell me who he thinks famous Ben Stiller characters voted for in the 2024 election. I find that very delightful. We do a little nuggets in Nick's talk. I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did. I'll be back on the Con Thursday with friend of the Pod. Look forward to seeing you all then. Up next, Ben Stiller. Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. After going full total shit, why don't we start him? We're after going full totalitarian autocracy fears. Yesterday I promised you all a little bit of fun. So I'm delighted to be here with the executive producer of the new Apple plus show, Severance. I guess not. New show, second season is new out now. And the host of the Severance with Adam and Ben Pod. He's done a bunch of other stuff. You might have heard of him. It's Ben Stiller. How you doing, Ben?
- [09:28]
Ben Stiller
Hey, man, it's great to be here. I'm such a fan.
- [09:31]
Tim Miller
Oh, man, that's embarrassing. But thank you.
- [09:34]
Ben Stiller
And it's mutual, obviously, especially I think even the last couple months, it's been great to have you to listen to and sort of work through our reality.
- [09:47]
Tim Miller
Well, I appreciate that because a big part of me wanted to just get under the covers and watch sad movies and read depressing Nazi era fiction and just check. But unfortunately I had a job to do. So honestly, it's been good for me too, to kind of wake up and have to do this every day. Talk to people, process it. That's Healthy.
- [10:10]
Ben Stiller
I think about people like you who have to do this and deal with it. Because for me, my first reaction was to do that, was just sort of retreat and go under the covers and also be grateful that I don't have to deal with it every second of my life now. Then of course, at a certain point your conscience kicks in and you're like, I have to say something, I have to do something. But for someone who to go out every day and deal with this really, you know, this craziness, I. I commend you and appreciate you.
- [10:38]
Tim Miller
Well, thanks. I mean, it's not exactly the coal mines, you know, I'm not exactly Zoolander in the mines here. But I appreciate, I'm doing my best. I do, I do want to start one. Well, I guess it's kind of heavy or it could be funny. We could take it whatever way you want. But I was listening to your New York Times interview and you kind of started talking about like, you know, the nature of reality in the context of the severance show. And so I wanted to start here. Is this real? Like, are we alive? Is it possible that we're severed from like a better earth somewhere else? You know, have you, have you thought. I've been thinking about that at all the last month. It's been a weird month.
- [11:12]
Ben Stiller
I mean, honestly, I've been thinking about. Yeah, just reality in general. And I don't know if that's just where I'm at in my life or you know, what I've been eating or. I don't know, but it's just sort of every day is. And then maybe it's also like where I'm at in my life in terms of, you know, like I'm 59 years old and I'm just thinking about all of that, how time goes by and then the actual reality of our world and yeah, the political situation. I think everybody creates in a certain sense their own reality and that it's all so subjective. That's what I think, the nature of reality. We could talk about that for hours and hours. I'm not going to give you any insights on it other than I do contemplate it a lot actually.
- [11:53]
Tim Miller
You might give me some insights. I'm still just thinking about the 19 year olds that are running the Treasury Department right now. And I'm like, maybe actually there's a 19 year old, 17 year old up there in the sky running this whole thing and he's getting a good laugh.
- [12:06]
Ben Stiller
It's a little bit, I mean, it is a little bit crazy. The speed at which things are happening and what's going on. And I guess, you know, it's not really a metaphysical thought though, but it's just, it's hard to comprehend when things are going, it feels like things are going very, very fast and also what the actual repercussions of things in our lives are going to be. I know the people who get affected by, directly by all the things that are being done right now in the government. But like, just in terms of when we go through our daily lives, how is, you know, how do we deal with this? It's really that question, like coming back to like your conscience of like, what is it that you need to do as a person? Because that's a personal choice that everybody has to make.
- [12:44]
Tim Miller
Have you thought about this? I mean, you've got to be thinking about how to engage and obviously you've done some political engagement before, some charity work. Of course you're doing this. You don't have to do this. I'm sure some people's PR people would be like, why are you going to talk to Tim, like, and who the hell knows what he's going to get you to say about the president? And you know, the Shine Heart Wig company might get mad at us, our corporate overlords. So like, how are you thinking about all that?
- [13:10]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, I think about it day by day and sort of moment by moment and try not to think about it too much in terms of, you know. Yeah, like my own sort of like personal, sort of my image or something like that. Because I really feel like you have to go from a place of like, well, just what feels right for me, you know, when it comes to engaging on social media and things like that. I feel like people feel like if you're going to be on social media, you have some sort of responsibility to speak out on everything that's happening. And that's just like ridiculous and impossible and nobody needs that, Nobody needs that pressure. Nobody needs to hear everything that Ben Stiller thinks about everything. It's like you have to issue a.
- [13:51]
Tim Miller
Statement on every public news item as if you're a politician.
- [13:54]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Or it's like, you know, you're saying too much about this or you're not saying enough about that. And you know, when, when everything happened, you know, over the last year and a half or so with Gaza and Israel, I realized like, there's no way I'm going to start going back and forth on social media with people about this. That's just it, just a no win game. And also I don't want to put my energy into that. And so I decided to say something by writing something about it and just decided that I'm not going to get into that back and forth, but I have my own feelings about it and I'll express myself when I feel like I need to express myself.
- [14:29]
Tim Miller
What about the business side of this? I do promise we'll get to severance stuff at the end. For severance nerds, we'll do plenty of severance talk. Because I'm obsessed, but I'm curious about the business side of it. In my world, in journalism or broadly defined, you're seeing some stuff from the Washington Post, from LA Times, from various other media outlets that are being more cautious now that are pivoting. They're worried they might get sued. I'm wondering, are you seeing any changes in whether things are getting stifled creatively from a Hollywood perspective, or do we not know yet? It's so early.
- [15:08]
Ben Stiller
I think everybody's going to have their own personal reaction. And it's impossible not to be aware of the fact that people feel this, that, oh, wow, there can be retribution from the government if you say something wrong. And that's really scary. So just to even be thinking that way is. But, you know, of course I'm aware of it. I think everybody's aware of it. And, you know, certain people are just naturally more outspoken and always have been. And I. I've sort of like, you know, had my own path with it. But right now, yeah, I think it's. It's definitely a thing that people feel. And in a way, for me, it makes me think about it even more, about what do I really want to say and how do I really feel about something. And I think for artists in times like these, their creative energy really goes into expressing what they feel. And there's a lot of amazing work that can come out of times like these that I hope we see.
- [16:05]
Tim Miller
I kind of feel like we didn't get that in the first Trump. I don't know why. It's not that there wasn't great art in the first Trump, but it wasn't like during that four years, you look back on that and feel about it the way that you might about the civil rights movement or all this amazing kind of music and movies. Why do you think that is?
- [16:24]
Ben Stiller
Maybe the first time around it was more about Trump, and then this time around it's more about the realization that our country is really deeply divided. For me, it's less about the fact that he won by a majority and that many, many, many people are willing to go down that road. And what is that? So that's actually something that it's always, I think, been about. And that divide is something that I think, you know, you have to sort of wrestle with and acknowledge and figure out and look at your own point of view in that, too, and your own prejudice towards, you know, people who don't have the same point of view as you. Yeah, but I also feel like there's a reality to the, you know, to where we are, and we have to figure out how to go forward and be productive and call out, you know, when the line is being crossed, which it seems like it's being crossed. I mean, you know, January 6th, violent offenders being pardoned. That's a line, you know, it does.
- [17:20]
Tim Miller
Say something about our country, though. Right. Like, I mean, that is really like when we were joking about being under the covers at the beginning. Like, to me, it's more about that. Right. Like, the realization that, like, we chose this. Like, not that not all of us chose it, but that, like, broadly the country chose it, rather than like a particular, like, not, like, I'm scared that, I don't know, Eagle Ed Martin in the, in the, you know, D.C. prosecutor's office is going to come for me. I don't know who the hell knows what'll happen. But, like, it's less about. About that. Like, the deeper questions to mine kind of are about what it says about the country, I guess. Right?
- [17:53]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, I guess. I mean, and also I think it's like what, you know, what people are getting out of it and what they want out of it. And I think everybody, you know, in the country, people want to have a better standard of living and they don't want to have to, you know, pay so much for housing and they want to, you know, or food. And all those things are very real and legitimate. It's just, you know, how you get there and whether you believe that, you know, what Trump is saying and. But I don't think that motivation behind that is necessarily wrong to want someone who's going to fix those things.
- [18:24]
Tim Miller
Here's an element of it that's a little closer to your work, though. What, what if it's less about wanting to put food on the table or whatever? And I'm sure that's true for some people, but for other people, it was like, more about feeling like that the culture was going away from them, that, like, movies were, you know, all this, like, woke lash. Like, everything there's, we have a, you know, we have a black Little Mermaid now or whatever. Or, like, the comedians can't do the jokes that they used to do anymore. And, like, we need to. And that there's been overreach on that side, on the left, and that we need to. You know, there needs to be a boomerang back. Some of those feelings are probably illegitimate and bigoted. Maybe there's some real legitimate feelings there. I don't know. What do you think about that kind of element of it?
- [19:09]
Ben Stiller
I think that anything you say on that can get twisted around in some other way. I've experienced that. I think the bottom line with that is you just have to go out and do it, and you have to go do what you think is funny, do what you think is creative, do, you know, make what you want to make. And, yeah, there are realities to what gets made these days. That it's harder. I don't know if it's necessarily related to that as much as to just economics in terms of the box office and just sort of boring things like that. Well, I think broad comedy has not really worked at the box office for a long time until that happens, and that will open up the floodgates more. But to politicize it is tough because everybody has a different point of view on it, and a lot of it is legitimate. But there's no one person saying, oh, you can do this or you can't do that.
- [20:01]
Tim Miller
In some ways, it's a different side of the same thing. A lot of it is just lawyers and PR people being cautious. Honestly, I understand why some multinational corporation that has a bunch of interest before the government would want to be cautious right now because Trump is capricious and will target people. And I also would understand why that corporation might, like, not want to publish a comedy that is a little bit too provocative or there might be a backlash or whatever, or that they would want to do something that thinks would get them good pr. Right. All of that is related to caution. I mean, some of it's more real than others, right?
- [20:39]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And I think that's kind of always been there on a certain level in show business. That's always been part of it. I mean. But honestly, like, even, like, looking at our show, you know, our show is sort of has elements of corporate satire or whatever, you know, or commentary. But, you know, Apple. Apple makes our show. And I've never, ever experienced them, like, coming in and saying, like, oh, you shouldn't have this in your show, or that, you know, there's like, nothing.
- [21:03]
Tim Miller
Get a phone call after this pod, though. Like, are you serious? Like, why would you do this? Okay. I was listening to one of the other interviews you're doing. You said you're working on a. Hoping to work on an adaptation of the Bagman podcast that Rachel Maddow did about Spiro Agnew. I love this. I keep bringing up the Spiro Agnew story recently because it was like, he has to resign. The vice president has to resign. It's been a while since I looked at it. It was like, 10 grand or something.
- [21:30]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, he was taking 10 or 20 grand. 10, $20,000 payoffs in the White House from. From back when he was governor of Maryland.
- [21:39]
Tim Miller
It is funny to tell that story now in the context of the incoming president has a cryptocurrency. The richest man in the world is taking over the Treasury Department. And it's like, man, that was a controversy in the early 70s when Spiro was taking 10 grand for some construction.
- [21:59]
Ben Stiller
It seems quaint. It definitely seems quaint. But that's what is kind of amazing about the story, is that you see how at that time, doing something like that was so far over the line and that these guys actually did something about it and how much our culture has shifted in 50 years.
- [22:22]
Tim Miller
The other Spiro thing that is actually interesting is. I mean, he was on the fake news stuff. He was really kind of the earliest person to weaponize that in a really meaningful. And it goes back. I mean, there was somebody that made. Of course, people complained about the media always, but to really weaponize it and, like, mass mobilize people against.
- [22:43]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, yeah. And he, you know, just deny, deny, deny. He was the guy who did that and. And had, you know, kind of some weird sort of, like, you know, early 70s charisma type thing where he just used that and just basically said, yeah, no, I didn't do it until he was guilty and he admitted it.
- [23:02]
Tim Miller
I hope that gets made, because I think that'd be really good. The Spiro story is good.
- [23:05]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, no, me too. Me too.
- [23:09]
Tim Miller
Y'All. It's pretty crazy out there. I was just. Just talking to Ben Stiller about whether we're living in a simulation or whether this is real life. So that. That tells you a little bit something about my mental stability on thinking about what is. What's happening with life and what craziness could be around the corner. So when you're subject to existential dread, to thoughts about what kind of craziness might befall us next, one thing to do to bring a little bit of peace of mind is think about some life insurance. Regain control with a life insurance policy found just for you by the licensed insurance agents at Selectquote, they can protect your financial legacy. Whether you need $500,000 or $50 million in coverage. Like Ben Stiller, Selectquote can find you the perfect policy. Solitcote is one of America's leading insurance brokers with nearly 40 years of experience helping over 2 million customers find over $700 billion in coverage since 1985. Other life insurance brokers offer impersonal one size fits all policies that may cost you more and cover you less, while Selectquotes licensed insurance agents work for you to tailor a life insurance policy for your individual needs. And have you ever worried about getting coverage with a preexisting health condition? Selectquote partners with carriers that provide policies for a variety of health conditions. High blood pressure, no problem. Diabetes, that's fine, too. Even if you have heart disease, Selectquote partners with carriers that can cover that condition and others. So get the right life insurance for you for less@SelectQuote.com Bulwark Go to SelectQuote.com Bulwark today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com Bulwark all right, two more politics things for you. Then we'll get into fun. I'm obligated to bring up the fact that the shadow president, Elon Musk, did tweet that you went full retard above a peck of you with your endorsement of Kamala Harris. I guess it was a quote of Tropic Thunder. That's gotta be kind of surreal to be that, like, this is where we're at, right? To see this guy, like, tweeting the arsler at you and also, I guess, like, taking over offices in the West Wing and also.
- [25:25]
Ben Stiller
Well, that part of it, I mean. Yeah, like, it's sort of like whatever he's tweeting, you know, like, I would think he might have better things to do with his time or, like, with his rocket ships or whatever it is. Like, the guy's got to be busy. But I think what's more disturbing is. Yeah. How close he is to the president and how involved he is in making decisions about, you know, people's jobs and our government when he has no position there.
- [25:49]
Tim Miller
Has he ever called you? Have you ever got a phone call?
- [25:51]
Ben Stiller
He has not.
- [25:53]
Tim Miller
I just. I'm just spitballing on you right now. Yeah, but, like, if you offered him, like, a spot In Tropic Thunder 2, like, we might be able to get out of some of this stuff.
- [26:04]
Ben Stiller
I don't know, maybe he wants to finance it. Let's go. Yeah, drop in the bucket. Give him, you know, two, three hundred.
- [26:09]
Tim Miller
Million dollars, he finances it. Give him a bit roll and just be like, in exchange for that.
- [26:15]
Ben Stiller
I'm not going to say simple Jack.
- [26:17]
Tim Miller
But yeah, could we like get USAID back? I don't know. I think that seems like as good idea as any. These guys do like, attention. It feel, it seems like I would.
- [26:26]
Ben Stiller
Be happy to keep him busy doing that so he's not doing the other stuff he's doing for the next four years.
- [26:31]
Tim Miller
All right, that's just one idea. Hopefully maybe that can, A germ of an idea could turn into something. Back when we were doing, when I was doing the anti Trump super PAC, like way back before I had wrinkles, like in 2016, people kept me, like, all the money that these rich guys are putting into the anti Trump ads, like, couldn't we just, I don't know, buy them off? Like, give them. Couldn't they have just given that money to like, couldn't, couldn't they got Trump to the table? I think in retrospect that probably was, would have been more effective than some of the, some of the tactics we used.
- [27:04]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, I don't, I don't understand how we got here. But I think also the whole, you know, thing that's going on now with the super rich people in the world who are all behind him has been really concerning, obviously. And I think it's, you know, it's not really that surprising. I guess it's human nature and it's greed and its power and it's all the things that human beings do and have done throughout history. But you know, it's happening. Yeah, you know, there's no revelation there.
- [27:32]
Tim Miller
No, there's no revelation, but it is, I guess just to expand on your point, it's just so stark that they would all like do it for him. Right. This takes me back to the simulation thing. The four richest people in the world who have FU money are all prostrating themselves for access to the power wielded by this guy. It almost is. You're trying to test the limits of greed. There's a movie script here about how embarrassing can we make it to get these guys to debase themselves. And the answer is unlimited amount of embarrassment.
- [28:07]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Or how obvious. Or just sort of like. And he's just the guy who's willing to do it. As you has been well documented. He's been willing to break the norms.
- [28:16]
Tim Miller
All right. The other kind of Hollywood politics thing I wanted to spitball by you besides my Tropic Thunder idea, which I just came up with on the fly, I'm feeling pretty good about. It's not bad. I was wondering you, I guess, had done Dem fundraisers. I haven't talked to Dems. At some level, I do wonder, like, a lot of times they rely on Hollywood a little too much for various things. But I do wonder if they might be able to learn some lessons from Hollywood on, like, mass marketing to people. Like, I was watching the Timothee Chalamet Bob Dylan, you know, media tour, and he's like this liberal noodle boy from New York that had mostly, like, girls and gay fans, like, up until two minutes ago. And he goes out there and he's like, I'm going to go on Theo Vaughn. I'm going to go, do, you know, the college game day? And like, we're going to repackage me and put me out there in a way that, like, resonates with more like a guys kind of audience type of people that, like, would like a Bob Dylan movie. And like, that, like, worked. And I do wonder if there's any lessons there for Democrats.
- [29:17]
Ben Stiller
I might push back and do that. I don't know.
- [29:20]
Tim Miller
Okay, now, Timothy, that.
- [29:21]
Ben Stiller
Well, I know, you know, see him around, see him at Knicks games. Everyone's. I think he's a genuine sports fan. I know he's like an Upper west side kid, you know, who like, genuinely loves sports. So I feel like he was just kind of leaning into and smartly kind of going like, hey, let's do this a little different. But I feel like it's organic for him.
- [29:39]
Tim Miller
So we need a genuine sports fan to be the. To be the Dem standard bearer, is what you're saying, or somebody that is genuinely more in touch with guy culture. I don't know.
- [29:47]
Ben Stiller
I think what you've been talking about, and I've heard you recently talking about it on the podcast about just that, you know, the Democrats need to figure out a way to get in touch with the electorate that is like, really connecting with them. That in a way that the Republicans have is a huge thing. And I don't know what the answer is to that, but the reality is that, yeah, it seems like that isn't happening right now. I think everybody's still sort of like regrouping from what's happened, but that's concerning to me for sure.
- [30:13]
Tim Miller
All right, I want to put this bug in your head because I feel like that you've got to have some value here. Like, you know, Night at the Museum. You've, like, done mass market. There were Republicans buying these shoes. Like, you know, you figured that out. Like, there are Republicans going to some of these movies. All right? So, like, there's gotta be.
- [30:31]
Ben Stiller
Although people get mad at, you know, on X or Twitter or whatever. And we'll say, no, I'm not going to watch your movies and all that. And it's like, all right, you know, I guess, fine. I. I really, I'm not coming at you in any way other than I'm just expressing how I feel, you know, And I've never really been super political in my. You know what I've. The movies I've made, like, Night at the Museum isn't a political screed.
- [30:54]
Tim Miller
It is not. I also think those people are lying, right? It's like, I dare you to go watch Happy Gilmore and come back and still be. And still, you know, you're really going to cut yourself off from that. You're going to. You're going to cut yourself off.
- [31:06]
Ben Stiller
Their choice. That's your choice. If you have to really look inside and go, like, okay, I can't accept what you do because of, you know, who you endorse for president.
- [31:14]
Tim Miller
All right, one last political thing. I know you've been kind of an advocate and, like, traveled the world doing stuff, talking about displaced people. I had the list in front of me, but I lost it. You went to. Oh, here it is. You went to Germany, Jordan, Guatemala, Lebanon. I mean, like, this is the top of my worry list right now. I mean, obviously we have some acute concerns here at home, but I do think we're about, like, we're kind of entering into a phase where there is just not going to be a lot of support anymore from the US for people who we had once been a beacon of hope for.
- [31:48]
Ben Stiller
We've always been, obviously, some times in our history where it hasn't been perfect. But, yeah, yeah, the United States has always been a place that's accepted people who are fleeing from political persecution.
- [32:00]
Tim Miller
Is there any stories you have from those trips or anything that, like, something that inspired you?
- [32:05]
Ben Stiller
You know, I thought about people when recently, you know, what happened in Syria with Assad. And I thought about the people that I met in displaced persons camps in Jordan who've been there for, you know, seven, eight years at the time I met them waiting to go back home. And when you're meeting with someone who's living in a tent, who's a doctor, a lawyer, or someone who just is not someone who wants to be there. And just by the fate of living in a country that was in the midst of war and was displaced through no fault of their own, that their life is completely put on hold and all they want to do is go back home and start their life again. And I thought about them, you know, maybe being able to go back. We don't know what's going to happen in Syria. You know, the other is so demonized in a way now and feared. And that's the most concerning thing to me is that the message that we put out of welcoming people and welcoming people who can contribute to our country and to our society, and that's the overwhelming evidence is that's what happens with refugees who do come to America. Yeah, it's going to be a really tough time, but it's really about. These are human beings, people, kids who have got. I met a kid who had to go to work taking care of his family at 10 years old, and I said, you're a really strong kid. He goes, I'm not a kid, I'm a man. And he was 10 years old taking care of his whole family in Jordan. So, yeah, I just would hope that we get back to being the country that represents that acceptance and what's positive about having people from all over the world be a part of our country, which is how our country was made up originally.
- [33:39]
Tim Miller
Me too. This was a big one for me. And it's tough. Some of this can be filled in by NGOs, and, you know, people like yourself right there raising money for groups and, and big donors and foundations. But, like, fundamentally part of this is nation states need to do, like, need to help. Right. Like there need to be. There need to be safe harbor countries. Like, there's a lot of regulatory stuff that goes into, you know, this far as visas. Right. Like, at some level, there's only so much people can do, you know, if you're making the camps nicer, that's one, you know, but come on.
- [34:12]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, and the, the camps are, you know, are there and necessary. But that, that's like I said, you know, you, you see people whose lives are just put on hold, and those are not a solution, obviously. And the neighboring countries are really the countries that take the most of the, you know, the, the outflow when there is a, you know, a situation going on, I mean, in a country that is at war or whatever it is, and I think, you know, something like over 100 million displaced people in the world right now. 100 million. So it's Hard to kind of even comprehend that. But yeah, the root causes are what it's about. And I think Filippo Grande, who's the UN Refugee agency High Commissioner, you know, it's a really good person who spends most of his time going from country to country and talking to governments about what they can do to help. And it's sort of a never ending process for him.
- [35:04]
Tim Miller
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- [36:34]
Ben Stiller
Okay.
- [36:34]
Tim Miller
No spoilers for anybody else.
- [36:36]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Three episodes in when this goes on. Well, episode four comes on Thursday night.
- [36:40]
Tim Miller
So on Thursday. So it'll be coming tomorrow. That's the episode four will be going tomorrow. I don't. No spoilers for me until I get back home over the weekend because I'm going to be messing it up on the road tomorrow. But I guess Just at the beginning, what was it? I mean, obviously, like, you have a production company, you have your pick of the litter, I assume. Like, what was it that appealed to you about severance?
- [37:01]
Ben Stiller
It was a script that got sent to our production company, a spec script somebody wrote. Dan Erickson, who now is the creator of the show, and he'd never had anything produced. And it was just. It reminded me of just all my. I don't know, like, favorite shows. It reminded me of Twilight Zone. It reminded me of the Office. It had just like a weird. Just kind of sort of like alternate reality vibe to it, but it was also a workplace comedy, and the dialogue was so funny. And I met with him, and it just. We were in sync. I was like, this could be great. And, you know, it took a few years to make it to get it off the ground, but it was just something I wanted to see.
- [37:36]
Tim Miller
Why? Why did it take long?
- [37:37]
Ben Stiller
Because Apple didn't exist yet. Apple TV plus, they were just starting up. And then we developed it for a while, and then you kind of go back, like, writing out the rest of the season. And then we had a casting issue where we didn't settle on Adam Scott, because I wanted Adam Scott for a long time. And we finally got to the place where everybody was on the same page, and I wasn't gonna make it if he wasn't doing it.
- [38:02]
Tim Miller
Yeah, he's so good. It's funny, all these things, like, whenever I listen to kind of Hollywood podcasts, these background conversations, and you hear the alternate paths, the show would feel weird. Not on Apple and not with Adam. Right. It does feel very aligned with the whole vibe of what the other stuff is on that streamer. In addition, Adam is so great. I'm like, who else would be. Would have this? Right?
- [38:24]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Adam, to me, was. There was never anybody else. But also the synchronicity, I think, of just being on Apple TV plus, which we didn't know what it would be, but, you know, it just feels like. It just feels like that's the home for it. And we pitched it all the different to all the different streamers, and nobody wanted it except Apple.
- [38:40]
Tim Miller
So you also have Turturro in there. I guess he's not a podcast listener because he didn't recognize me, but we were shopping together in Brooklyn the other day, and it cracked me up because he was, like, doing his own costuming. He was talking to the guy. I'm at some, like, boutique store, and he's talking to the owner of the store, and he's like, yeah, they gave me something, but it's not right and I want something else. It was like such a scene.
- [39:05]
Ben Stiller
He's super stylish too.
- [39:06]
Tim Miller
Yeah, he looked great. And I was like, I have to buy something from the store now. So it worked out for the.
- [39:11]
Ben Stiller
Did you see he walked the Runway in Milan Brazenia?
- [39:15]
Tim Miller
I did not see a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I gotta go pull that up when we're finished. But it's gotta just be a joy to. With John Turturro every day. Or not every day, but for the time that you're on set.
- [39:26]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Before I didn't know him, I'd just been a fan and we'd crossed paths a couple of times. I remember I ran into him once in an editing room. I was editing something, he was editing something. We talked about maybe working together someday. He's so intense and he's so committed and I feel like he's. One of the reasons the show works is because you just believe him. You believe that he believes all that lore and all those crazy ideas and when the actor believes it, then, you know, you invest as an audience and yeah, it was fun. You know, I feel good now that I know him because at first, the first season, it was a little bit like I just, you know, little intimidated by, you know, Turo.
- [40:01]
Tim Miller
Intimidated by. Because of the Jesus character or what is it?
- [40:04]
Ben Stiller
The Jesus character? He's a. He's a director, he's friggin intense, he's intimidating and he's smart because he like he. Trusting for him is a big thing. And I think that's why he wanted to work with Chris Walken, because they were friends and they had a built in trust already. And I think once you earn his trust, then it's just really fun.
- [40:26]
Tim Miller
Okay, quick spoiler. If you haven't watched the session, just fast forward 45 seconds. Who had the balls to make a Turturro walk in love story pitch?
- [40:34]
Ben Stiller
That's not a spoiler.
- [40:35]
Tim Miller
And I guess it's not a spoiler because it would have in season one.
- [40:37]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, that was Dan. Dan Erickson. I mean, it's all out of his head watching them develop. That was really beautiful. Just as a fan to see that and it was really fun to see that. The fans of the show really embrace that too.
- [40:51]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I looked at my husband and I was like, this is goals here. You know, can we be tutorial or walking 15 years ahead? It's interesting. So the show doesn't like, doesn't take place now, right? What, what time period Are we actually in. Does.
- [41:04]
Ben Stiller
Do they ever say, I can't help you there, Tim?
- [41:07]
Tim Miller
Oh, we don't know. Oh, got it. It could be.
- [41:09]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. We don't ever specify.
- [41:11]
Tim Miller
I mean, we don't have TikTok, I guess, is what I'm telling. Like, you can just. There are certain ways that you can sense that it's not the year 2020.
- [41:18]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, it's weird. There's certain technology that's in the show and then there's certain, you know, cars don't seem like they're from today. There's a, you know, Cobell, Patricia Arquette's character, has a VW Rabbit, one of my favorite cars.
- [41:31]
Tim Miller
It feels very relevant to the moment, like a lot of the themes and a lot of the topics. So how did you feel like that all worked?
- [41:39]
Ben Stiller
Well, sometimes I think it's easier to do something that is not of the moment and, you know, doesn't. It was very important for me that we didn't have, like, CNN or, you know, any brand names that we really recognize. They're like, you know, maybe like a few things you could see there, but really we do everything we can to keep them out because it's its own universe in its own place. And I think that allows it to then, you know, not be commenting on something that's specifically happening right now in the moment. And I think hopefully it gives it a little bit more of a sort of an, you know, a lifetime, you know, for people to react to in whatever time they watch the show with down the line.
- [42:15]
Tim Miller
As you said, it is a little bit of a corporate commentary, right? Like, obviously this is kind of a secrety, secret corporation, and the characters are, you know, separating their, you know, outside their work life from inside the work life. To what extent, like, do you think that is, like, particularly pertaining to, you know, the technological questions we're dealing with today or, you know, something like the. The big tech giants. Is there anything that is specifically on point towards that or is it more of a speaking kind of like any place, anytime? There have always been these sorts of sacrifices you make.
- [42:52]
Ben Stiller
I think the idea of working at a big company, a big corporation is what's there in the show. And he wrote that script close to 10 years ago, the pilot.
- [43:03]
Tim Miller
Oh, wow.
- [43:03]
Ben Stiller
We started making it before COVID and then all of a sudden we were making it during COVID and then it was like a show about, you know, isolation. So it's interesting how certain ideas, I think if there's something that's universal in them, and I think this Idea of going, you know, to a job that you work for, this sort of, you know, unknown boss who is, you know, who. We don't know who this. The board is. We don't know who the CEO is really. We know who he is, but we don't know what they're doing, why they're doing it. These people literally have no idea what they're doing there. And I think there's something that people can relate to in a certain level. I also love the metaphor of just life of, like, you know, you know, we get up, we do our thing, we work hard, we get upset, we fall in love, we do all this stuff and we have no idea why or really where we're going or what happens when we die. And so to me, that greater metaphor is kind of like, what. What's going on with them in the show.
- [43:52]
Tim Miller
This takes us back to the metaphysical questions of are we in a reality right now? Yeah, I thought you were taking it to the metaphor of life, like, my life. Like, could I sever having to do this podcast off from the rest of my life? And I might be. Would you want to? Well, I don't know. You're asking me that right this second? I would say no. There would certainly be an appeal. I think I would enjoy myself at the MJ Lenderman show at Tibetina's tonight more if I had. If I was able to sever off the rest of this, but maybe not.
- [44:20]
Ben Stiller
Well, it's also that question of, like, what you're severing from, like, do you, you know, what do you actually experience as Tim, do you experience your innie or your outie, you know, and which is the one that you really remember? Because when you're. You're innie, you're innie. And when you're your Audi, you're your Audi. So do you love doing the podcast or do you dislike doing the podcast?
- [44:39]
Tim Miller
No, I do. I love it. I don't love that I have to do it. These are the things I have to talk about. I mean, this is fine right now, but, you know, the other things that I have to talk about, but, yeah, I guess that is right. A question is like, what is it? Like, that's sort of about what makes you, like, what is your essence, you know, and what.
- [45:00]
Ben Stiller
What is the thing that, like, makes you want to experience? It makes you, you know, quote unquote, happy, you know, where's the place you want to be? And a lot of people don't want to be at work. And that's why Dan wrote the show, I think, is because he was working at a door factory that he had to go to for whatever, like, eight or nine hours a day, and he just wanted to forget that part of his life.
- [45:17]
Tim Miller
Oh, that's funny. They just have the door factory cameo in the second episode.
- [45:22]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Tribute to Dan.
- [45:24]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I guess that's true. And also the happiness element of it, right. Is like, maybe that's not true. Maybe I'm happier at the MJ Lenderman show knowing I've earned it, you know? Yeah, sure, there's an element of that.
- [45:36]
Ben Stiller
I. I personally love doing what I do, but it can be really hard sometimes. But I'm also grateful that I'm not. Like you said, you know, Derek Zoolander in the coal mine. You know, it's like, I'm grateful for that. I. So I don't want to forget what I'm doing, you know, when I go away from it. But then there's always the painful parts of life that we would. I think we all fantasize about forgetting. But I think one of the themes in the show is really, is what can you forget? You know, what can we really. You can't. You know, what can you suppress? You can't. We experience things. We can try not to remember them, but something inside of us is going to feel it, whether it's in our body, it's our, you know, memory, whatever repressed memory. And, you know, there's a lot of research about that, too, about what's, you know, generational trauma, things like that.
- [46:21]
Tim Miller
It's kind of in conversation with that movie, the Eternal Sunshine.
- [46:25]
Ben Stiller
Sunshine.
- [46:25]
Tim Miller
I loved that movie.
- [46:26]
Ben Stiller
Yeah.
- [46:26]
Tim Miller
Michelle Gandhi. Yeah. There definitely are Charlie Kaufman parallels. I also wanted to ask about the four tempers. Why are we taming Frolic? The four tempers Kier is taming are woe, frolic, dread and malice. Curious what those four mean to you.
- [46:40]
Ben Stiller
I mean, you know, what do you want me to tell you?
- [46:43]
Tim Miller
I don't know. What do you think about those four tempers?
- [46:46]
Ben Stiller
From what I've seen, what I've seen in the show, you know. Yeah. There's. The myth is that Kier went into the cave and tamed the four tempers. That's what that painting is.
- [46:54]
Tim Miller
We don't know why.
- [46:55]
Ben Stiller
Well, I think, you know, it has something to do maybe the idea of, you know, 19th century, he was, you know, creating some sort of way of dealing with, you know, he was kind of a doctor. He had to, you know, had him the first sort of medical med tech company for the 19th century. And he was the humors. You know, the idea of, like, how people would sometimes try to cure people that weren't necessarily medically oriented and those beliefs. So I can't tell you much more, though, Tim, because then I'm in trouble.
- [47:25]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I think there's something more there. I think there's something you're not telling me. Whoa. Frolic, dread and malice. I'm just going to keep thinking about that. My last. My husband's theory on this is that when the brain gets severed, it also affects their comprehension. So when. So when they're doing the computer games, if they could use their real brain, they could see what is on the computer, and it would tell them what the company does.
- [47:45]
Ben Stiller
Interesting.
- [47:45]
Tim Miller
What do you think about that? It is interesting. All right, I want to close. I have some final. I have a game I want to close with for you. But before we get to the game, I had one other topic I forgot, which is kind of related to the game, because some of the characters in the game will be relevant in this question. Why can't we make good comedies anymore? Like the 2000s? And not because of the stuff we were talking about earlier. Just fundamentally, are people out of good ideas? I mean, you had a run that was like, Zoolander, Dodgeball, Fockers Meet the Parents, Happy Gilmore. And I was like, what was the best comedy last year? I Googled it. I couldn't find one. I asked our culture editor. He goes, ooh, tough one. Comedy's in a dire spot. He's like, maybe the fall guy. And he goes, maybe Nutcrackers. Nutcre. I have to admit, I haven't seen. What's that? What's that? The deal?
- [48:39]
Ben Stiller
I don't know. Honestly, I. I wish I even knew why those movies were working back then. I really, like. I think it's.
- [48:46]
Tim Miller
You don't feel like. You know, I feel like at that.
- [48:48]
Ben Stiller
Time, first of all, people were going to the theaters to watch movies. And again, it comes back to that thing of, well, the studios will produce stuff when. When they're making money. So that was happening, and I feel like until we do that again now, in terms of ideas, like, you're asking the wrong guy. Because, like, I feel like I'm always trying to figure out, like, what's a good idea, and I'm always sort of, like, ripping it apart. So comedy is hard. I think it's really hard because not everybody's gonna laugh at what you think is funny. And when you can find something, for some reason, at that time, everybody was laughing at the Same stuff and going for it and enjoying it. And I feel like, you know, studio movies these days really need to get a really, really big audience. And it's a little bit of a chicken and the egg thing, what I'm saying. Cause I don't have the answer to it.
- [49:35]
Tim Miller
Think about how easier it is now to have access to, like, weed vapes.
- [49:38]
Ben Stiller
Right?
- [49:39]
Tim Miller
You know, people are high all the time. People have got to be way higher than they were now in the 2000s. So you've got to be able to provide something to make high people laugh.
- [49:47]
Ben Stiller
They just had to get to the theater and get high. That's the thing. Because it's easy when you have that, to stay home and just watch what's on the couch or what you're on from the couch.
- [49:56]
Tim Miller
Okay, well, we could start with some apple comedies then, or one of the streamers.
- [49:59]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, look, I'm into it. I'm trying, actually trying to figure it out. But I think it's also. We have. There's a much younger generation of really funny people out there and you know, who are trying to do it too.
- [50:10]
Tim Miller
Oh, I thought you were gonna say there's a much younger generation that's brains are broken and they. That we can't reach them because they have too much anxiety.
- [50:16]
Ben Stiller
You know, there's attention span and stuff like that. But I think there are really, really funny people out there. It's more challenging for them than it was for us at the time to get a movie made like that.
- [50:26]
Tim Miller
For a minute, I was like, am I just doing the old guy thing where it's like, things are so much better when I was a teenager, and I. Then I started doing some Googling and I. No, in this instance, things were better when I was a teenager. But is there anything you just like, think back on and that gives you a chuckle? Any little moments?
- [50:43]
Ben Stiller
I mean, for me, like movies like Stepbrothers, like, I could watch that movie all day. You know, that's actually the first thing I saw Adam Scott in when he played, you know, Derek the asshole. He was so funny. Look, I also love the comedies, like in the 70s too, and there were some great funny movies. You know, it's. We don't have it happening in the movies right now, and somebody needs to break through with it. But I don't know if I have the answer.
- [51:08]
Tim Miller
Everybody always asks you about, like, the famous ones, like, do you have any deep cuts that you really like? People should go watch any Ben Stiller movies. I mean, I guess Cable Guy is not really A deep cut, but a culture writer. Sonny also said to me when I was. When I was brainstorming with him about this, he was, like, prescient. Cable guy was prescient. It was kind of about people's obsession with true crime, you know, infotainment, and. And, like, so you nailed that. Is there anything else like that?
- [51:31]
Ben Stiller
Except nobody has cable anymore, so.
- [51:33]
Tim Miller
Yes, but it's the same. It's just like on here. It's like the same thing. It's like, it could be the TikTok guy now, and it would be. This point would be the same.
- [51:40]
Ben Stiller
Albert Brooks's first movie, Real Life. Did you ever see that?
- [51:43]
Tim Miller
I don't think I have. I've heard of it, but I haven't seen it.
- [51:45]
Ben Stiller
He made it, like, 1980, and it was basically, he was doing a parody of the PBS series about the Loud family and American Family that they. That was the first reality show. They followed a family around for a year, and then he did a takeoff on it where he was a filmmaker doing a documentary about a family. And it's one of the funniest movies ever. And it. It foresees everything that reality television became.
- [52:06]
Tim Miller
Real life's on my list. Okay, here's the game. We're going to end. We're going to end with. You came on a political podcast. You asked for this. I played.
- [52:12]
Ben Stiller
Did I. Did I make it? Was I, like, entertaining enough and, like, fun? Because I feel like we just talked about heavy sort of stuff.
- [52:17]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it was cheerier than Ann Applebaum.
- [52:19]
Ben Stiller
Oh, really?
- [52:20]
Tim Miller
Like, if you have a. Do you have any. Do you have any funny stories you want to end with? Yeah. Funnier than Bill Crystal and Anne Applebaum.
- [52:26]
Ben Stiller
I enjoy you and Bill Crystal together. You. You're a good team.
- [52:29]
Tim Miller
Thank you. It's kind of like a generational gag kind of humor thing. I mean, if you feel like you failed us. Do you have a funny story? Do you have a tight five or anything? What if we were going on Jimmy Fallon? Don't you prep something that's funny for Jimmy Fallon? Do you prep anything?
- [52:44]
Ben Stiller
Yeah, sometimes. And it's always very stressful, and I always feel like I'm not funny enough, and I'm just the least funny, supposedly funny person I know.
- [52:54]
Tim Miller
Got it. So you do. But you do prep. You do prep, like, little. So, like, when Jimmy's like, tell me about your teen son's crisis that he had last week. It was.
- [53:03]
Ben Stiller
I used to prep a lot more like in the early, like, the 90s, when I would go on and try to really do it. And then I just sort of got old and tired. But it's. You know, TV talk shows have changed so much. If you watch those shows from the 70s again, this old guy Ben, talking about, like, it's so interesting because people are talking about real shit. And then TV talk shows became like, yeah, what's your funny story? You have to talk to a pre interviewer. And then they write it out and it's all like, yeah, yeah, okay.
- [53:28]
Tim Miller
That's why podcasts are doing well. I don't know about this one.
- [53:31]
Ben Stiller
It is. I feel like podcasts are the new talk shows of what talk shows used to be.
- [53:36]
Tim Miller
Like, Dax, have you done Dax?
- [53:37]
Ben Stiller
Dax? Yes, I've done Dax is great.
- [53:39]
Tim Miller
That's so good. I should have listened to your Dax for prep. Okay, we're back to the game. This is good. This is professional podcasting right now. Here it is. I don't have music to go along with it. Maybe we'll put it in a post.
- [53:48]
Ben Stiller
Dame stress me out, but let's go.
- [53:50]
Tim Miller
Who did this character vote for in the 2024 election? The Alzheimer's nurse and Happy Gilmore.
- [53:57]
Ben Stiller
Trump.
- [53:59]
Tim Miller
Trump. White Goodman.
- [54:02]
Ben Stiller
I have to say. Trump.
- [54:04]
Tim Miller
Trump. Okay. Chaz Tenenbaum.
- [54:08]
Ben Stiller
Kamala.
- [54:09]
Tim Miller
Kamala for Chaz Tenenbaum. I thought that was borderline. This one was an easy one, but it's a sleeper movie, so I wanted to shout it out. Roger Greenberg work.
- [54:15]
Ben Stiller
Oh, I think for sure.
- [54:18]
Tim Miller
Comma, for sure.
- [54:19]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. But maybe secretly, because I don't know, like, he felt like he was like, double thinking and thinking that, like, for his bottom line, but he really doesn't have a bottom line. Doesn't make enough money that he's going to get the tax break, but he wishes he did.
- [54:34]
Tim Miller
Yeah, he might have actually moped and not voted. I think about it. The James Murphy soundtrack. And that is so good. Okay, and finally, your four main characters, the office characters in Severance. Who are they voting for in the 2024 election as their Audis?
- [54:48]
Ben Stiller
Okay.
- [54:50]
Tim Miller
Because they're outies. Their enies wouldn't know what's happening. I'm not letting you off the hook.
- [54:56]
Ben Stiller
They all voted for Kamala.
- [55:00]
Tim Miller
I don't think that's true. Ellie definitely voted for Trump.
- [55:04]
Ben Stiller
No, you're right. Helena.
- [55:05]
Tim Miller
Yeah, Helena.
- [55:06]
Ben Stiller
Sorry, what did I say? Helena. But definitely Helena went for Trump for sure.
- [55:09]
Tim Miller
The other three for Comma. Ben Stiller. Thank you so much for taking all the time. Everybody go watch Severance. If you are watching it, listen to the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam. It is Delightful. And do you have anything else you want to promote? Anything else you're selling?
- [55:22]
Ben Stiller
I do not. I'm just, you know, I'm going to keep listening to your podcast, keep doing your thing. I thought the episode you had with Jon Favreau, you know, post election was great. I got emotional listening.
- [55:32]
Tim Miller
Yeah, thanks. I kind of feel like when I get those bros over on my podcast, I kind of let their hair down a little more and like, give, you know, kind of they're not worried that the. That the audience might get mad.
- [55:45]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. Yeah.
- [55:46]
Tim Miller
And so we got him to let loose. We had like 18 minutes of just like, his inner anger came out. And for. He's. He's kind of a Vulcan, you know, so, like, getting his inner anger out, I thought was. I enjoyed it. So I'm glad you did, too.
- [56:00]
Ben Stiller
Do you want to talk about the Nuggets or the Knicks at all?
- [56:02]
Tim Miller
Oh, fuck. We were supposed to talk about that. Okay, let's do it really quick. All right, next. How do you. How do you feel?
- [56:07]
Ben Stiller
I feel the next feel really good.
- [56:10]
Tim Miller
Really good.
- [56:11]
Ben Stiller
I mean, the trade deadline is imminent, right?
- [56:13]
Tim Miller
You're not going to do anything?
- [56:14]
Ben Stiller
I. I don't think so. I think Mitchell Robinson is our sort of like, in place of the trade deadline, is he's going to, you know, come back and start playing for us. I feel really good. I feel like the Knicks are. They're starting to gel and, you know, Jalen Brunson is, like, changed. Changed the culture.
- [56:29]
Tim Miller
They are so fun to watch. And Kat in New York, huge. I was like, is this really going to work? Because he's kind of an eccentric guy in the big New York media and he's, like, thriving.
- [56:39]
Ben Stiller
It's crazy. I had the same concern. I didn't know what was going to happen. And just seeing him and we started calling Brunson cap, and it's sort of like just right from the get go, they bonded and he's having a career year. He's had a little issues because he hurt his thumb, but I feel like I love Tibbs. I'm all in with Tibbs. He's playing the. The starters less minutes. It's, you know, it's in a good trajectory.
- [57:00]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it's good. I'm. I mean, I don't want to jinx you, so I won't say that I'm rooting for the next because my. My rooting interests with the obvious one Nuggets exception usually don't turn out that well. But I've got my Donovan Mitchell hate from Our from our bubble Jazz Nuggets rivalry days. So I can't be for the Cavs.
- [57:17]
Ben Stiller
Okay.
- [57:18]
Tim Miller
F the Celtics, obviously.
- [57:19]
Ben Stiller
Yes.
- [57:20]
Tim Miller
F the Sixers, obviously. So I don't know. The Knicks are kind of like, in a weird way, it's like New York. So usually, you know, like, the Yankees are always hated, but the Knicks are kind of like the lov team. I think even for people that aren't like Knicks fans like you, they're very accessible.
- [57:34]
Ben Stiller
They're good guys. They don't have a lot of attitude at all. You know, they're just like regular funny guys. And Josh Hart. Come on. Josh Hart. There's like, no one better.
- [57:43]
Tim Miller
Did you go to the games growing up like I did? So, so what? What era would that have been? Ewing.
- [57:47]
Ben Stiller
I was there at 8 years old in 1973.
- [57:50]
Tim Miller
I mean, like, Clyde Frazier have been on that team already. 73. Oh, man, you look great, Ben. I wouldn't pegged you for going back. Earl Monroe, Clyde Fraser era.
- [57:59]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. So I remember, you know, my dad taking me and it was like. I remember what that felt like. So. It's been a long time.
- [58:07]
Tim Miller
It has been a long time.
- [58:08]
Ben Stiller
We're ready. Like, we're really ready. And then Obviously the late 90s, I was living in LA in the late 90s and wasn't really there that much. But as a teenager, through Bernard King era, I was there and it was. He was my guy. I feel like this year, next year, these are going to be great years.
- [58:21]
Tim Miller
Now I'm worried about you. I'm worried about the letdown. Like, the crash might be kind of hard if it doesn't happen.
- [58:26]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. But I. I've gone through. I mean, nothing can hurt me because I've been through the pain.
- [58:30]
Tim Miller
What'd you think about the Luca trade?
- [58:33]
Ben Stiller
I mean, I feel like I don't understand it. I don't understand why they would do that.
- [58:40]
Tim Miller
Is it possible that Nico, the GM was severed from what was happening on the basketball court when he was making the deal with the Lakers?
- [58:46]
Ben Stiller
It was like a weird Rob Pelinka, Nico. Yeah. Like dual severance things. I don't know what was going on there. I don't understand it. I. And I. And I like Dallas a lot. And I think weirdly, maybe the Mavericks might do well in the short term.
- [59:01]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I do too.
- [59:02]
Ben Stiller
But I mean, Luka is Luka.
- [59:04]
Tim Miller
I mean, they definitely are scarier against the Nuggets this year for, like the year 2025, having AD and those tube centers that they got, like, they got a lot of size to throw at Jokic. That's how the Timberwolves beat us. So I kind of don't want to draw them in the playoffs this year. But like, it's still insane long term, right?
- [59:25]
Ben Stiller
And then you got the spurs now with Fox and Lebanon, I mean, it's shifted a little bit.
- [59:30]
Tim Miller
The West's going to be tough. I don't know. It'll be interesting. I don't know about the Luka LeBron pairing, but long term, Luke is going to be unbelievable there. It's just. I don't know. How do the Lakers get so effing lucky?
- [59:40]
Ben Stiller
The Lakers are the Lakers. Yeah.
- [59:41]
Tim Miller
They seem to, you know, if we weren't in a simulation, if the NBA wasn't rigged, like, if every once in a while, you know, bad, like karma hit people that deserve to get bad karma for once, what would happen would be Luca was like, I didn't agree to go to the Lakers. I don't really like la. I'm pasty skinned. It's too much glitz and glamour for me. I love my boy Jokic. I'm going to sign with the Nuggets when my contract expires. That would be. We never get to have nice things like that. Like, you know, it's a smaller market team getting a free agent, but I don't see that happening for us.
- [60:16]
Ben Stiller
Well, nobody got a chance at Luca. I know happened in the dead of night. This deal, this weird severed deal, I.
- [60:23]
Tim Miller
Think it was a sever. There have been a lot of conspiracy theories out there, but I think that like Nico just maybe seeing Luca looking fat in like, maybe in like the office building. But then it's a. It's. He get. His brain gets severed when he's watching the court. It's like a different thing than when he's meeting with them and he's like, why is this fat guy the best player on our team? I need to get somebody else.
- [60:43]
Ben Stiller
Yeah. And also like, you know, you can get in shape. He's 25. Like, if someone. Someone. It seems like everybody's like afraid to say, like, oh, you know, we want you to be in shape more crazy.
- [60:53]
Tim Miller
I love the. On his sports body is like he. Luca, could be smoking cigarettes on the bench and I still would not have made this trade. Well, it's true.
- [61:01]
Ben Stiller
The guy is incredible, so.
- [61:03]
Tim Miller
He's incredible. All right, I'm glad. That's a good prompt. Thank you. You're in charge of the show now. Come back anytime. I really appreciate it.
- [61:08]
Ben Stiller
Thanks, man.
- [61:09]
Tim Miller
All right, Ben Silver, everybody. Go listen to the Sever Conference podcast. We'll be back here tomorrow. We're gonna have to talk more about the news tomorrow. I'm sorry. We'll be back here tomorrow. We'll see you all then. Peace. Cut up a crack up a breakthrough Just enough to let up to let.
- [61:52]
Ben Stiller
Go Pass it by and I know.
- [61:57]
Tim Miller
How to feel right.
- [62:01]
Ben Stiller
To steal every moment in the back Two moments are real I will wait for another Today.
- [62:11]
Tim Miller
I will hold you with holiness. Go.
- [62:28]
Ben Stiller
What's it say?
- [62:30]
Tim Miller
Can I go.
- [62:33]
Ben Stiller
Past the without hope? You see how can I hear what's to hear? That's how I know.
- [62:42]
Tim Miller
That's the judgment.
- [62:43]
Ben Stiller
Without hope. That's a judgment or without hope you see at ucr, if I see, that's how I start.
- [62:59]
Tim Miller
The Bulwark podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.
- [63:07]
Ben Stiller
Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds.
- [63:08]
Tim Miller
Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team.
- [63:10]
Ben Stiller
If big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous to your contracts, they said what the are you talking about?
- [63:22]
Tim Miller
You insane Hollywood.
- [63:23]
Ben Stiller
So to recap, we're cutting the price.
- [63:25]
Tim Miller
Of mint unlimited from $30 a month.
- [63:27]
Ben Stiller
To just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch.
- [63:32]
Tim Miller
$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees.
- [63:36]
Ben Stiller
Extra Speed slower above 40 GB. Details.