The Bulwark Podcast: Bill Kristol — A Power Play for Autocracy

Release Date: November 18, 2024

In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a profound discussion with Bill Kristol, the editor at large of The Bulwark. They delve into the recent wave of Donald Trump's cabinet nominations, examining the implications for American democracy and the potential drift toward autocratic governance. The conversation is rich with insights, critical analyses, and concerns about the trajectory of U.S. political institutions under Trump's influence.

1. Introduction and Context

Tim Miller opens the discussion by noting the absence of both himself and Bill Kristol from Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump's residence, despite receiving invitations. This sets the stage for a critical examination of Trump's attempts to reopen communications and solidify his influence within the administration.

Notable Quote:

• Tim Miller (01:24): "I know we both got the invitations and it was tough, right? I mean, had to juggle other commitments I had here."

2. Patterns in Trump’s Nominations

Kristol references Robert Tracinski's analysis from Unpopulist, highlighting a disturbing trend in Trump's cabinet picks. According to Tracinski, every nominee is a deliberate negation or mockery of the governmental functions they are appointed to oversee. This pattern not only reflects unqualified candidates but also signals an intentional undermining of established norms and processes.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller (02:01): "Robert wrote that every appointee is selected as a deliberate negation... They're disqualified, they're antiqualified."
• Bill Kristol (04:51): "I think it's a Trump power play. A power play for centralized, personalized, autocratic government."

3. Specific Nominee Discussions

a. Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence (DNI)

Gabbard's nomination raises alarms due to her critical stance on Trump’s foreign policies. Both hosts express concern over her potential influence on the intelligence community, fearing compromised information flow and increased government dysfunction.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol (04:51): "It's the intelligence community almost becomes impossible to even understand how it's going to work."
• Tim Miller (22:32): "Tulsi Gabbard... she is simply unfit to be commander in chief of our patriotic men and women serving our country in uniform."

b. Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense

Hegseth's appointment is scrutinized for his questionable past behavior and lack of relevant experience. The discussion highlights the troubling aspects of his personal life, including accusations of sexual misconduct and his inadequate military background, which starkly contrasts with seasoned Defense Secretaries like Leon Panetta or Chuck Hagel.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol (11:23): "He could all be criminals. I mean if we can just be honest here."
• Tim Miller (18:47): "He has no relevant experience to run a bureaucracy such as this... his personal behavior... it's all horrible."

c. Matt Gaetz as Attorney General

Gaetz's nomination is particularly controversial due to multiple accusations of sexual misconduct. The hosts discuss the ethical implications and the potential fallout within Congress, emphasizing the Senate's constitutional duty to scrutinize such appointments thoroughly.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol (24:48): "His defense is that it's not true that they were 17... If you're nominated to be Attorney General, you can vote against people to be Attorney General... these people should be put in jail tomorrow."
• Tim Miller (25:05): "He was having sex with younger women. His defense is that it's not true that they were 17. They were 18 years old."

d. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK) for Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS)

RFK's nomination raises concerns about his stance on vaccines and public health, potentially influencing vaccination rates and infectious disease research. The interplay between his views and powerful lobbying groups like big pharma is examined, questioning his ability to effectively lead HHS amidst significant opposition.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol (34:13): "Pharma is a really big player... powerful lobbying effort."
• Tim Miller (35:59): "His policies will be pretty awful. They're not really distinguished appointments."

e. Elon Musk’s Involvement

Musk's role, though not a direct government appointment, is discussed in the context of his influence and potential conflicts of interest. The conversation touches on the broader implications of billionaire oligarchs intertwining with government functions, mirroring autocratic tendencies seen in other nations.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol (38:00): "He can find out anything he wants anywhere in the federal government."
• Tim Miller (40:03): "The degree of corruption with the Musk thing. He goes around... the unwillingness that anyone's going to have... to take him on."

4. Reactions and Pushback

The hosts explore the varying levels of resistance from within Congress, highlighting figures like Senator Max Miller who vocally oppose Matt Gaetz's nomination. However, they express skepticism about the efficacy of such opposition, fearing it may not be sufficient to counter the broader autocratic shift.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller (22:32): "Max Miller... he wishes other of my colleagues would have the same courage to do so."
• Bill Kristol (23:07): "This is solely based off of his job as a member of Congress within this body."

5. Influence of Lobbying and Interest Groups

Kristol and Miller discuss the formidable power of lobbying groups, particularly in the pharmaceutical industry, and their potential to thwart RFK's confirmation. They debate whether these groups possess the leverage to sway Senate votes against nominees perceived as threats to their interests.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller (34:13): "Pharma is a really big player, especially in Republican circles."
• Bill Kristol (35:59): "This is real politics. They have a ton of influence."

6. Potential Consequences for Government Functionality

The conversation underscores the grave implications of appointing unqualified individuals to critical government positions. Concerns are raised about the erosion of checks and balances, the deterioration of institutional integrity, and the overarching threat to democratic governance.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol (45:59): "If this was happening in a third-world country, it would just be evidence of a total loss of credibility of democratic institutions."
• Tim Miller (47:24): "This is a real governance crisis of democracy."

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode concludes, Miller and Kristol reflect on the broader trajectory of Trump's administration, emphasizing the need for vigilant resistance to safeguard democratic institutions. They express apprehension about the long-term effects of these contentious nominations and Trump's strategies to consolidate power, such as contemplating a mass deportation campaign.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol (53:06): "Mass deportation remains one of the biggest... terrible things, but also potential backfire things for Trump."
• Tim Miller (53:16): "We'll see. I'm intrigued by how the Gates thing plays out."

Key Takeaways

• Erosion of Norms: Trump's cabinet nominations reflect a deliberate strategy to undermine governmental functions and erode institutional norms.

• Unqualified Nominees: Appointees like Tulsi Gabbard, Pete Hegseth, and Matt Gaetz exhibit significant unfitness for their roles, posing risks to national security and justice.

• Lobbying Influence: Powerful interest groups, particularly in pharmaceuticals, wield substantial influence, potentially hindering the confirmation of nominees like RFK.

• Autocratic Tendencies: The pattern of nominations suggests a shift towards centralized, autocratic governance, threatening democratic checks and balances.

• Internal Resistance: While there are voices within Congress opposing certain nominees, skepticism remains about the effectiveness of this opposition in curbing the broader trend.

This episode serves as a critical examination of the current state of U.S. governance, highlighting the dangers posed by appointments that prioritize loyalty over competence and the undermining of democratic institutions. Kristol and Miller provide a sobering analysis of the potential path toward autocracy, urging listeners to remain vigilant in defending the foundational principles of liberal democracy.