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- [00:00]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [00:04]
Bowen Yang
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [00:07]
Matt Rogers
Hey, Bowen. It's gift season. Ugh. Stressing me out.
- [00:10]
Bowen Yang
Why are the people I love so hard to shop for?
- [00:12]
Matt Rogers
Probably because they only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired. Except for the guide we made in partnership with Marshalls, where premium gifts meet incredible value.
- [00:23]
Bowen Yang
It's giving gifts with categories like best.
- [00:26]
Matt Rogers
Gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto, or best gift. So thoughtful.
- [00:33]
Bowen Yang
I really shouldn't have. Check out the guide on marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at Marshalls.
- [00:38]
Matt Rogers
This is Kate Max from Post Run.
- [00:40]
Bowen Yang
High with Kate Max. Degree Advanced. The world's number one antiperspirant provides up.
- [00:45]
Matt Rogers
To 72 hours of protection against sweat and odor that comes with life. Degree is the wake up workout. Antiperspirant. The dashing, darting, carpool, honking, get the kids off to school. Antiperspirant. The work from home and do the laundry, grocery shop on your lunch hour, never take a break.
- [01:01]
Bowen Yang
Antiperspirant.
- [01:02]
Matt Rogers
So do what you need to do.
- [01:04]
Bowen Yang
Work how you need to work.
- [01:06]
Matt Rogers
Sweat moves you forward. Degree is here to make sure it.
- [01:09]
Bowen Yang
Doesn'T hold you back. Degree here for sweat. It's going to take a long time to rebuild the shining city on the.
- [01:29]
Matt Rogers
Hill, the beach beacon to the rest.
- [01:32]
Bowen Yang
Of the world you go to outside of our country.
- [01:34]
Matt Rogers
And I've been out in the UK and other places, they don't know what.
- [01:38]
Bowen Yang
The hell's happening in America. They don't understand what's happening. This used to be the place that.
- [01:43]
Matt Rogers
Welcomed immigrants, that welcomed people. And that was our strength.
- [01:48]
Bowen Yang
The diversity was our strength.
- [01:50]
Matt Rogers
And now it's looked upon as, you know, people are being thrown out of.
- [01:55]
Bowen Yang
The country without due process.
- [01:57]
Matt Rogers
It's nightmarish what's happening in America, and.
- [02:01]
Bowen Yang
Hopefully people will be able to see that. Yeah, but aren't you. You're forgetting one thing. You didn't have to hustle with a black skin. No, I didn't have to hustle with.
- [02:09]
Matt Rogers
One arm and one leg neither. So what?
- [02:11]
Bowen Yang
So you're admitting that the black man is handicapped?
- [02:13]
Matt Rogers
Oh, no, no more than me. He's just as good as me.
- [02:16]
Bowen Yang
Wait, now I suppose you're gonna tell me that the black man has had the same opportunity in this country as you.
- [02:20]
Matt Rogers
More.
- [02:21]
Bowen Yang
He's had more.
- [02:21]
Matt Rogers
I didn't have no million people out there marching and protesting to get me my job. No, his uncle got it for him.
- [02:31]
Bowen Yang
If you can see.
- [02:32]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, the numbers all go to 11. Look right across the board.
- [02:38]
Bowen Yang
11, 11. And most of these amps go up to 10.
- [02:41]
Matt Rogers
Exactly.
- [02:42]
Bowen Yang
Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder? Well, it's one louder, isn't it? Yes, yes, yes.
- [02:50]
Matt Rogers
Oh. Oh. Oh.
- [02:53]
Bowen Yang
Oh, God.
- [02:56]
Matt Rogers
Oh.
- [02:59]
Bowen Yang
I'll have what she's having.
- [03:01]
Matt Rogers
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host. Tim Miller was a little slice from the life of Rob Reiner, who was murdered alongside his wife Michelle in his home last night. It was first him advocating against Trump last year on the Spinal Tap 2 tour to Meathead series debut and all in the Family to Spinal Tap 1, of course, to his mother's star turn in When Harry Met Sally. He also directed our guest Today editor at large, Bill Kristol in a Bill Crystal, Billy Crystal TV ad during the 2020 campaign. Bill, so much tragedy over the weekend. But going to start with Reiner, I.
- [03:38]
Bowen Yang
Got to know a little bit in anti Trump world. A couple of conferences, I think I was on a panel with him back in 2017 or 18, and we were in vague, slight, friendly email conversation. And then in 2020, some people came up with the idea of this ad. Billy Crystal and Bill Crystal would be very funny, a little mistaken identity. And we both may say we've disagreed on a lot, but we're both for Joe Biden. The Billy Crystal part of the ad was very good. My part was clunky. I'll come back to that in a second. And they aired it Summer Florida and Biden lost Florida. But what was interesting to me was this. I mean, of course I knew of Rob Reiner. I'm not a big movie person. Everyone should read Sonny Bunch's piece about how extraordinary that stretch of movies he had directing in the 80s knew him from all in the Family, which I remember watching in college. It was such. That show was such a big deal. And that clip you played is excellent. I mean, Edith, the mother is really a very important character. She often gets the best line, you know, like putting them both in their place in a way, you know. Anyway, I remember that that show was such a big deal. And When Harry Met Sally, of course, Katz's Delicatessen. That is an amazing scene, I've got to say. Sticks in my mind. Anyway, we did this ad and what struck me was I know nothing about. I'm not a good actor. I've never tried to be an actor. I'm bad at it, you know, I just. It's not My thing, you know, I'm not good at. I don't understand drama, really, and stuff. So I worked a little bit on the, you know, the script. We both edited a little bit, and then we got on. It was on Zoom. It was during the pandemic. And I thought I'd sort of worked out my lines, you know, and had a little bit of emotion or punch or whatever you're supposed to have, you know, in your 30 seconds. And I said them, and I mean, of course, they were. It was pathetic. But he was directing the ad, and he was very deft. He was very kind. Bill, that's good. I might just pause a little bit before this line here. And then the second line, maybe emphasize this word to kind of establish the contrast between you and Billy and that you were a Republican. And it was deft and gently done. It improved the AD and my performance in the AD 1000%. It was still pretty bad, don't get me wrong. I mean, so I don't want you to watch that and think that's the judgment of Rob Reiner's direction. But, I mean, I was just touched by his kind of humanity in doing it. And he did it, of course. It was a volunteer thing, and he was very pleasant. I mean, it wasn't one of these prima donnas. And we were chatting and about family and so forth. I didn't know him very well, but I was very fond of him and, of course, very saddened by the horrible murder of him and his wife.
- [05:55]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. And the details are horrible, and we're still learning. And they were stabbed in their home. I guess their son had drug problems. There was a movie. They did a movie about and with him a few years ago. And so it's just kind of unimaginable, the details. I wanted to mention also about him and Michelle, his wife Michelle. Actually, the end of When Harry Met Sally, when they got back together, was a change in the script because over the course of the shooting, Rob fell in love with Michelle and they stayed together, had three kids, and he was like, at the end, they got to get together now. So the whole final New Year's scene changed. Inspired by Michelle. So she had that. She also is an activist. They kind of led the charge on the Supreme Court challenge to Proposition 8 in California on gay marriage. They recruited Ted Olson, who recruited David Boies, just kind of this sort of Bush. Two people that argued both sides of Bush, Gore to argue on the same side in favor of gay marriage. And they worked with HRC on that and some other Folks, and that's not something you have to spend your time on. And there are a lot of celebrities who are like, for gay marriage who posted about it or would say something about it, but they were actually doing real meaningful organizing work. I had dinner with them when they were taping Spinal Tap 2 about a year ago here in New Orleans. And he did a podcast on the Kennedy assassination. Rob was convinced that the Kennedy assassination was CIA related, and about half the dinner was spent with him trying to convince me of that. He was surprised that I was skeptical, but Michelle just struck me as so charming and wonderful, and it was really quite a pleasure to get to meet her. And she was working with him together on a lot of that, on the political stuff and interviewed him for this show. That's kind of what got us to have dinner. We interviewed him about the movie on Christian nationalism that she was producing. And anyway, it's a nightmare. And the whole story is a nightmare. On top of that, the President of the United States has weighed in on it, which I regret that I'm gonna have to read. He says, a very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling, but once very talented director, has passed away together with his wife Michelle, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump Derangement Syndrome. He goes on to shit on Reiner and Michelle. And I guess the only thing I can say about that is that you do want to live your life in a way that Donald Trump sends a despicable tweet about you when you die. Probably it's probably a sign of a life well lived, but it's still pretty grotesque.
- [08:39]
Bowen Yang
So repulsive. I mean, I don't know, every time he does this, you think, oh, no, this is a new low. And then there's another low. But this is a pretty low low, right?
- [08:47]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. They got stabbed to death last night.
- [08:49]
Bowen Yang
Yeah. Yeah. It's not even worth getting into, but. And it's all about Trump, you know. Yeah. Really disgusting. What a disgusting human being Trump is. I just want to say that insight I've got here, you know, maybe.
- [09:03]
Matt Rogers
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- [12:44]
Bowen Yang
No, I mean, it's also awful. And you know, as you say, you think occasionally maybe there's a bit of a lull in the violence and then something like this happens. And then you look back at all the other incidents. There have been some of them less high profile and. No. And then the fact that kids in high school now, what are there two at least, who were there, who were at Brown, at least. I don't know if they were there in the room.
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Matt Rogers
Yeah, no, they weren't there. The one girl was going to be in the building.
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Bowen Yang
That's right.
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Matt Rogers
She had said that something came up. She decided not to go. She was going to live.
- [13:13]
Bowen Yang
She's in the course and there was a review session for the finals and she decided not to go to it. So anyway. Yeah, the idea that this happens in high school, then it happens to your college and the police stuff, I'm always so hesitant to criticize them on this because these are hard and, you know, they make mistakes. And now in the age of social media and Internet, you sort of have to announce everything, every press conference, every four hours. I mean, Patel, on the other. The boasting part of it that Patel excels in is really kind of repulsive. If you're, you know, if you make an earnest statement and it's wrong and you withdraw it 12 hours later, okay, it's an investigation that happens. But of course, with Patel, it's all, we're on top of it. We're doing great. We've got this and that. It's such a jackass.
- [13:53]
Matt Rogers
You don't have to actually do live tweeting investigations. I hear you. Yes. I mean, you know, at this day and age, a little bit more than in the past, there's more of an expectation that you're communicating with the media, with the press. But, like, I mean, this is extremely haphazard. And Chris Wray wasn't doing this.
- [14:09]
Bowen Yang
Well, no, and I would say, correct me if I'm wrong, my impression in the past, I Just thinking about it as you're talking, is the FBI director didn't actually say anything much. I mean, the FBI agent in charge of the region or the city, whatever the. However they divided up. You know, you'd see some guy you'd never seen before who was on, you know, on TV who looked like an FBI guy who would say, this is the special agent in charge of Boston, and he's going to give a briefing on what's happening here. The fact that Patel has to intrude himself, he doesn't know anything about what's going on.
- [14:39]
Matt Rogers
This was actually a criticism. Happy to take up corrections on this for many of our listeners who are following this more closely. I know some folks who are at the FBI at this time who listen to the show, but this was one of the criticisms of Comey where he was out a little bit more than past directors had been speaking a little bit more publicly. And I think that, having talked to Comey several times, I think it came from a place of good intention of wanting to have accountability, et cetera. But that was kind of out there. People who are critics of him were like, you're a little bit of a prima donna or whatever, because you're putting yourself out there a little bit more than you have for past directors. And so just to kind of imagine that, imagine kind of how judicious Comey was for the most part, and then compare it to now with Cash, who's literally live tweeting, he's putting on costumes. You know, like there's the reporting thing that he wouldn't get off the plane until somebody found him, like the child size large FBI jacket that he wears or whatever. And it's horrific. And the criticisms of him are coming from inside the house too. And like there are a lot of like right leaning or maga, even law enforcement commentators. Will Sommer's been writing about this who've been critical of Patel. The only other thing I just want to say about the Brown and the kids at the school experienced multiple school shootings when I did the jubilee thing when I was debating the 20 young conservatives and you have to kind of go back and forth with them on what the topics are going to be. And like I wanted to do guns as one of the topics because it's probably, it's probably the issue that I've changed that I've left most on besides maybe taxation of the top 0.1% of people in the country or. Yeah. Or the taxation of inheritance tax. The more rich people you meet, the more inheritors you meet, the less sympathetic you are to low inheritance tax rates. Anyway, besides the point, it's the issue that I'd moved most on and it's frustrating. I think we have come to this. I think that Hannah in the newsletter this morning called it learned helplessness place on all this. Or even people on the left are just like, let's not talk about this anymore. Let's not argue about it. And I just, I think that's wrong. It's, it's crazy. The situation that we're in in this country and a lot of other fights such as this, you know, had, you know, moments where it felt like there was momentum towards action and then backsliding and then starting up again. And to me it's just like the gun issue is one that to just give up on it, you know, and just accept or live in a world where someone's going to experience two school shootings in their life is I just think is madness.
- [17:16]
Bowen Yang
No, I've moved on that issue too. I was probably never quite as. I don't know, I was always slightly uncomfortable with the Republican orthodoxy. The Republican orthodoxy wasn't as extreme then as it is now. It was.
- [17:27]
Matt Rogers
Yeah. I mean, Rick Scott passed red flag laws. You don't even have to go that far back. Right. Right after Parkland. Yeah.
- [17:33]
Bowen Yang
And I remember after Parkland that was like, okay, finally people are going to come to their senses generally. I mean, this is different discussion. I feel there's a certain passivity on a Lot of things. You know, it's. Don't you think this. I mean, once we were probably too much the other way. That's probably why people like us became Republic. At one point, everyone thought you could solve every problem in the world by having a government program. And so we read some interesting and important critiques of why that doesn't work and why some of them have unintended consequences. And so. But now the whole. It's not just a matter of like social sciences or academics. The whole world has become passive. I mean, the Internet, AI, social media, nothing could be done. It's just, we're going to sit and watch this stuff happen, hope it kind of works out okay. And Elon's. The algorithms are going to do their thing and Elon's going to shape his, and we're all going to be. And God forbid that there should be any kind of attempt to sort of even regulate the algorithms, then you're on some slippery slope for having free speech. And this is not an issue I know much I have a considered opinion on because it's complicated and all that. But the fact that we don't even debate gun control, we don't even debate AI, we don't even debate the algorithms. These are kind of important things for the future of the country.
- [18:35]
Matt Rogers
I hope it's changing. I feel like we're just coming out of a period where a lot of people have been beaten down, like Trump winning twice. That's not really Biden's fault, but Biden not really being a figure of like change, you know, And I think it's created kind of this, this mindset. I do wonder if we're coming out of it. I should just, just because it's so blatant, should say we should get to Bondi Beach. I want to get to the anti Semitism element of it. But on the gun side of it, you do see this debate out here. It's like, oh, is it kind of silly to talk about gun control when you have Australia, which has much stricter gun laws, you have this horrible gun crime. But it's like Australia, I think in 2023 had like, I had these stats for the Jubilee thing. I don't have them in front of me right now, like 31 or 39 gun deaths or something. This event is going to double that. And obviously they have some issues because they were legally accessed firearms. And I think one of the people was on the ISIS watch list. All this stuff is still developing, but that's the same. So maybe they have some More cracking down that could be done there in Australia on their gun rules if somebody that's on the ISIS watch list was able to purchase a gun legally. But just the gap between how often this happens here and the scale of it per capita versus what's happening in Australia is just extremely striking. You wrote about Bandai a little bit today and there was a Ukrainian Holocaust survivor who died celebrating Hanukkah and was shielding his wife from the bullets. I mean I don't even know what you say about that, but okay, it's.
- [20:06]
Bowen Yang
The 87 year old man, Alex Kleitman. Yeah, he and his wife are both Holocaust survivors. Obviously as young as children came to Australia. Australia I think has the second number of Holocaust survivors after Israel.
- [20:19]
Matt Rogers
People.
- [20:20]
Bowen Yang
It was very I think receptive and friendly to them and there was already a pretty strong Jewish community there and a lot of people didn't probably wanted to get as far away as possible, honestly from the memories in some sense and the history. And so they have a very thriving Jewish community. There's been fair amount of unfortunately rise of anti Semitism as elsewhere people debate whether the government had done enough. But this is not normal. I can put it this way. Anti Semitism of someone, you know, going too far and being prejudiced or something like that. Or this, this is. It seems like a real ISIS operation. So maybe not a coordinated from some central place, but still ISIS loyalists, but horrible. I mean Hanukkah, you know, is. It's not. You know, it's funny, it became so important in America because it's the same time as Christmas, minor holiday. That's a term of literally kind of a minor holiday in Jewish. Which doesn't mean it's nothing, it just means it's not one of the really big ones, Passover and stuff. And you don't have to stop working and all this. But the light. Always a holiday of freedom, holiday of light in the win and a joyous holiday. You know, Jewish holidays. Maybe not aware of this. Jews a little bit, you know, melancholy people, you know, a lot of, a lot of stuff in the history that isn't so happy.
- [21:29]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, you've got one of your holidays where you just talk about all the bad things.
- [21:32]
Bowen Yang
That's your. Okay, yeah, that's the typical holidays actually wore them a little bit. Yeah, the destruction of the temple. So this has always been considered a sort of a happy holiday. Very, a very kid friendly holiday. I mean kids are kind of at the center of it. You like the menorah and celebrate the victory, the upset victory over the over the oppressors. And so, so anyway, 2,000 people ago, this famous beach, Bondi Beach, I think I was there quite a long time ago and not a Jew. I mean, it's a famous, just general beach, obviously. And they chabad. Got permission to do this somehow, you know, whatever. And 2,000 people assemble for a joyous occasion. And this is what I mean, it's just horrible to wake up here not thinking about us. But, you know, last night was the first night of Hanukkah, so families are getting together and looking forward to little party, you know, lighting the candles, latkes and so forth. And then you wake up and this is the first thing you hear about. Annika, is this slaughter so really horrifying.
- [22:30]
Matt Rogers
I want to talk a little bit more about the anti Semitism part. I do take your point that this is. There's some ways in which this is different from your run of the mill anti Semitism, but simultaneously there's video from the Hanukkah festival in Amsterdam where there's this horrible protest outside of it, maybe potentially violent. You know, it's like, how is this acceptable? You know, you would know what to call this in any other situation, like massive protests outside of a religious holiday ceremony. And then the social media reaction to this. I just, I feel like I need to keep bringing this up because I sense that I'm more in touch with it than some folks who aren't, you know, on left and right and far right political social media to the degree that I am. And these conspiracies sprout up immediately that this is an inside job, that Israel, you know, Israel is a false flag. You know, Israel's doing this to get more sympathy for themselves and that they did it. Tucker Carlson's brother is sharing this. I had a friend show me just when we were hanging out over the weekend. Their friend had shared it on Instagram. Just kind of a random person. But, you know, just to demonstrate the degree to which this is like infiltrating regular people's social media feeds, you know, there's like some stupid theory about how this guy, the killer's name was searched in Israel on Google in the hours before. But the person that posted this is just too stupid to understand how time zones work, Right? Like, you know, all this stuff is proliferating. And I think that there is a little bit of a. Of an imbalance out there in the world about the seriousness of this. And I think that there's a group of folks who are like, particularly attuned to this and maybe even at times sometimes calling out things that are anti Semitism that aren't and, like, going a little bit overboard. But then. And I think that there's a lot of people that are not taking this seriously enough to the degree to which this is proliferating and causing additional issues.
- [24:18]
Bowen Yang
I'm pretty sensitive to that issue, I think, but I've underestimated it and how much of this is. I think it's partly a social media thing and it's partly just a lot of other things. A lot of bad people purposely pushing horrible conspiracy theories and just being anti Semitic. I mean, but the degree to which someone wrote a good piece on this the other day, you're curious about something, you click on something, and then the algorithm leads you to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, so to speak, and it gets more and more radical. And, you know, one minute you're worried maybe Israel did go too far in Gaza. And, you know, and. And five steps later, you're reading Holocaust denial stuff. And I. People do get sucked into it. Tucker Carlson, who I don't even like to talk about him since, you know, I worked, he worked for me at the Weekly Standard there many years ago. But that's so painful, really, what's happened. But I underestimated how much damage he could do. Having a, you know, someone who's deeply anti Semitic and really invested in it, that. Spending a lot of time and effort to promote this and to legitimize it and to normalize it, and that's terrible. On the. Yeah, yeah.
- [25:20]
Matt Rogers
Just one example of this on the algorithm thing is, I just think people should think about it this way. It is kind of titillating to see, like, oh, maybe there's a conspiracy behind it. It's why the National Enquirer was sold next to the checkout line when we were younger at the grocery store. Not the Economist, it grabs you. But at the store, if you, like, kind of picked up the Inquirer and looked at whatever they're saying about the aliens, then you didn't start getting delivered a bunch of other alien stuff in the future. That was a private experience that you had where you were interested if maybe there was something happening in Roswell here. If you're on Instagram and some other person posts this thing about how people in Israel were searching the name of the. The killer the day before the attack. That's interesting. You know what I mean? If you're not in the debate in the Metabolic, you're just a person in the world and then you're like, okay, I'm going to click. Let me click on that and see. And then you click on it and you're on some professional anti Israel feed and you're reading it and looking at it and you pause on it actually for a minute because you're trying to decipher whether it's real or not. You've now sent the signal so that computer that you want more, stuff like that, and you can just. It's not hard to understand how then over time you keep getting other things and some of them are true, Israel's done some terrible shit, and others there's conspiracies. Right. And then how you can kind of get sucked up and all that. Anyway, I don't. I don't exactly know what the solution is with this and the algorithm, but, like, just accepting that it's real and it's a problem is a good first step and that. I think we're still not quite there. Anything else on any of the tragedies before we get to the MAGA stuff? Politics?
- [27:02]
Bowen Yang
No, just. I do feel, I don't know if you felt this way, just the 1, 2, 3 character. And we haven't even mentioned the killing of the National Guardsmen at Palmyra in Syria. I mean, just. It felt like just one blow after another. And it did have that sense somehow, as you say, maybe we've saw, despite all the things to worry about in the world, maybe actual murders and assassinations and slaughters of almost an October 7th kind on a beach in Australia. These are not things that didn't seem to be happening any more than they always do, if you know what I mean. And suddenly they have the Wall. It had more of an effect on me, I guess, I don't know, than I might have expected.
- [27:41]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, no, it's real. And I guess I should say you said the National Guard thing and that prompted a thought in my mind, just like I was just talking about how we had kind of had a little bit of a gap in political violence between Charlie Kirk and now. And it's like that's not really true. Actually, even as I was saying it out loud, I kind of knew it wasn't true. But Sarah Beckstrom, you know, the National Guard soldier, D.C. that gets killed. Right. It's happening over the holidays. And anyway, I guess that just sort of speaks to my point, which is like the point I was trying to make, which is like we do have this kind of internal clock of like. And that's. That's a crazy way to live. Right. Where it's like, you know, it's been three weeks since there's been a political shooting. I wonder if there's something coming up again.
- [28:18]
Bowen Yang
Right.
- [28:19]
Matt Rogers
It's a pretty discouraging sign of the state of affairs. You know, we don't pick favorites on our sponsors, but it's tough sometimes because some of them I just really, really like and really, really enjoy. And they bring joy to my life and the life of my neighbors. And that's true for Wild Alaskan. Wild Alaskan is the best way to get wild caught. Perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. Trust me, you haven't tasted fish this good. When I first got the first box from Wild Alaskan, I was like, holy cow, there's a lot of fish. All right. Right. And I'm doing my best to cook from time to time around the house, but you know, Nicole Wallace show is on. Right. During cooking time, so can't do it every day. And so I had a lot of fish start giving it out to some of the neighbors. Now the neighbors are excited every time a new box comes in because they want, they want some of that tasty coho salmon or Pacific halibut as well. It is super yummy. They're exactly right about the, about the portionizing. Is proportionizing a word? I don't know. I'll just, I'll just make it up. It's perfectly sized for a dinner for you and your family. Their seafood is 100% wild caught, never farmed. It's nutrient rich and full of flavor and sustainably sourced. You can try it risk free with a 100% money back guarantee. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan company will give you a full refund. No questions asked, no risk, just high quality seafood. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskin.com bulwark for 35 bucks off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com bulwark for 35 bucks off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. This is maybe slightly more encouraging material, which is an ongoing MAGA crackup and Donald Trump's weakening political power. Two poll items that jumped out at me. The first one, Sarah Longwell and Dan Pfeiffer. Kind of going back on how significant this was with Dan. More significant Sarah on the left side. But it's interesting at least, which is a poll that was showing that when you ask people, do you consider yourself more of like a traditional Republican or more of a MAGA Republican. For a while, that MAGA Republican number had become a huge majority and now it's back to 50. 50. Maybe that's because people don't even understand the distinction anymore, I think, which is Sarah's argument. What are you even talking? Isn't a MAGA Republican a traditional Republican? And so more study, more research could be done there. But it's a data point point that I think is interesting. It's related to this more interesting data point, which is the head pollster for Rasmussen, which is a MAGA outfit, went to the White House. This is reporting from Natalie Allison at Washington Post to kind of shake Trump out of his stupor a little bit. I want to read a little bit from this. He said this is the pollster note of Trump. You said fight, fight, fight after your shot and right now you're fight, fight, fighting, Marjorie Taylor Greene and not actually fight, fight, fighting for Americans. He said that he warned Trump that many of his supporters believe he hasn't drained the swamp in Washington and suggested that the president refocus with a plan to embrace pragmatic economic populism. To the extent to which we were talking about the economic populism message, Trump wasn't as interested as I would have hoped what the pollster said to the reporter. And apparently at some point Trump got bored with him and pivoted the conversation to golf. So I don't know this guy. Maybe he's just annoying and boring. Anyway, you don't want to over interpret everything, but it is an interesting anecdote that basically Trump is just kind of rejecting people that are on his side that are telling him that he's losing grasp of his own coalition.
- [31:54]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, it's an interesting anecdote, an interesting poll as you mentioned. And I do think they matter more because there's real things happening that confirm one sense of some crack up and some weakness. Right. I mean there are actual elections and by now they've been quite a few for an odd numbered off year. Right. And so some state legislators, one seat in Georgia, you don't want to do too much with that, I suppose. The mayor of Miami there are particular but it's very consistent. I'm the degree to which, you know, the Republicans are losing 10 points or so, which is from a year ago, which is a lot to lose. You know, in one year. Maybe they'll continue losing some, maybe they'll stabilize, maybe they'll have a little rebound. But if there's any continued loss, they are in a real bad shape. I think for 26. That's real elections, not just, you know, a poll or a question. And then the. I thought what happened in Indiana was very interesting. Didn't you think? I mean that's like what do the economists call that? You know, don't believe stated preferences, believe revealed preferences. Believe what people do. Know what they say. And so we've so tired after a year. Everyone's saying, well, privately, I've got problems with Trump. I'm considering probably deserting at some point. I'm Bill Cassidy. I've got Bill rfk if he goes there. And I'm so and so. But I, you know, I voted for Hegseth and for. And for Gabbard and Bondi, but I've got some limits. And one just discounts all that. And we were right. One is right to discount all that. Incidentally, there's. But then a bunch of state senators in Indiana with a lot of pressure on them.
- [33:17]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [33:17]
Bowen Yang
In a very red state. And those are conservative state senators. Those are not. Don Bacon, with all due respect to Todd Bacon, I was a good guy and all this.
- [33:25]
Matt Rogers
Or without all due respect to him.
- [33:27]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, exactly. I'm sick of all the. Anyway, he's not a moderate. These are conservative. If you look what they're doing at iu, it's stuff that I don't like. I mean they're very much into a lot of the MAGA agenda. I would say even. Yeah. And they just. Just didn't want to be bullied. Maybe they have their own reasons for liking the current congressional districting. I don't know. It's eight to two. Maybe they makes it easier for them down the road. Maybe a couple of these are thinking. But anyway. But what's amazing is in the cases we've touted in the past that are important, Epstein, they got four defections right. In the House. This was a majority of the Republican state senate. I think it was like 21 out of 38 or something.
- [34:01]
Matt Rogers
It was 2119, I think. And I think Indiana, just to get it right, there's seven. Seven to two is the breakdown of the congressional delegation.
- [34:09]
Bowen Yang
Okay. But yeah, so. But it was. Yeah. A slight majority of the state Senate. The Republicans in the state Senate, obviously all the Democrats were with them rejecting this attempt to go to a 90 or 10 0, whatever it is, reapportionment in middle of the decade. And again, they were getting a lot of pressure. There's no particular reward. The other way that I can see it's not Whatever you think of the margin, Taylor Greene stuff and stuff, she was getting some reward for breaking from MAGA World presumably. I mean at least psychic reward, that's what she had won. These guys hadn't run on anything like this. I don't know enough. Maybe there's some just peculiar details in Indiana. Maybe Mike Pence I think weighed in quietly and privately.
- [34:46]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, Mike Pence, I've shouted him out and I should say Mitch Daniels I think too was, you know, some of these folks had been there for a while. Like one of the women I mentioned on the list of podcast on Friday was she was 76 year old state senator, had been around since the Mitch Daniels days. And I didn't want to be bullied.
- [35:00]
Bowen Yang
Yeah, but that's true. But I mean Chuck Grassley is 91 years old and he's perfectly happy to be bullied. I mean most people and all the other 78 year olds and that's, I guess I think this sort of makes the point, right, that the fact that they were willing to be responsive to Mike Pence and Ms. Daniels is itself interesting and maybe does suggest something about a possible willingness to be a pretty conservative Republican and not simply, simply, simply do whatever Trump wants, no matter how unreasonable and how purely political and opportunistic.
- [35:30]
Matt Rogers
Or can I offer one thing that might just be a little too Pollyanna and hopeful, but it's been a dark podcast. Yeah, yeah, it's just a thought that I'm having head and it's not, not really predicting this so much as monitoring it. But I always come back to this Trump term and there was just always such like a wide range of potential outcomes and a lot of it depended on his own psychosis and like what he decided to want to do with it. And like I always did think that our best hope for minimizing pain was that Trump would feel like he already had one kind of right. Like he got back in twice. He's not going to jail. Jail. He doesn't need to do what he did last time at the end of the term because you know what, they're going to name buildings after him in every red state in the country. And maybe Christy, you know, maybe he'll be on Mount Rushmore or whatever, you know, like, and so that will, he won't be incentivized to be like his most destructive self for that reason I think that that's possible and that there's some evidence cutting the other way, I should say. But in particular lately, as he starts to take defeats, you do Wonder if an 81 year old man, like has the heart to actually fight. Like I was like reading the Rasmussen thing where he's like, why aren't you. Fight, fight, fighting. And I do wonder, maybe he just runs out of fight about all this where he's just like, what is the point? You know, you hear this, you see this a little bit in his reaction to like the impending defeat in the midterms. It's like we're a year out from the midterms and you already see Trump kind of being like, well, you know, this happens. You know, sometimes people lose in midterms. Like somebody who really had the fight in him to be a fascist dictator would be, you know, wouldn't just like take the first setback on their plan to rig the redistricting system, you know, would try other things. Other things might be coming in the next 11 months. But I just, I do think it's a thing worth monitoring that maybe the old man decides he doesn't have the fight in him to go the whole hog and there'll still be a lot of other damaging things done. But anyway, that's my very caveated Pollyanna hopefulness right now.
- [37:29]
Bowen Yang
I have a Pollyanna hope, which is sort of a cousin of yours, I'd say. Okay, I think that's a reasonable one incidentally, though, which is the one thing he does seem to willing to fight for is himself. I'm just his name. You know, he's willing to be pretty rash and destroying the east wing and trying to do all that kind of stuff. Right.
- [37:45]
Matt Rogers
The more personal that's related to his name. He wants his name on there, probably.
- [37:47]
Bowen Yang
Yeah. So that's. So it's all about him. I do think it's hurting him politically with swing voters. I think Sarah's stuff shows that. But also that the character from Rasmussen sort of said a version of that. Right. You said fight, fight, fight, but you're not fighting for them, you're fighting for yourself. And it was always his strongest cell that he would fight for you. So he's not, I think, but I wonder if that's hurting him even. That's the kind of thing the Indiana. If you're an Indiana state senator, it's like, okay, you know what? I don't quite know whether he's right or not on this policy, but this is the Republican policy. We're with him on Doge, we're with him on immigration. They can go pretty far down that path. Very foolishly, those boats probably deserve to be blown up. But when it's purely about him, but so often it's purely about him and so often it's so petty and mean spirited. I come back to the Reiner tweet this morning. I mean, I mean, it's just so does any Republican state senator think, yeah, you know what? I don't like Rob Reiner because he was anti Trump and he and his wife were just murdered and we're just gonna trash him the day after he's. I don't think that that's not normal. I guess I do wonder whether his, what we've always regarded as his abnormality is finally gone. So I don't know. I'm not saying this very well. So abnormal as to offend his own supporters somewhat, do you think? I don't know.
- [38:59]
Matt Rogers
Or maybe it's like, I guess the other way to put that is maybe not that they're offended, but that like they're willing to go along with it as long as it feels like there's this political gain, you know, as long as either it's like their enemies are suffering or they're seeing something, whether it's whatever, getting invited to Mar a Lago or on Air Force One or as it starts to look like this thing is coming apart, right? As it looks like the midterms are going the other direction, as it is looking like he's a lame duck. The more it looks like that, the more people are kind of willing to be like, okay, well that thing that I saw as abnormal before, that I didn't say anything about, maybe now I feel differently, right? I'm not exactly counting my chickens on that happening, but I don't think that's crazy like assessment of kind of human nature. All right, I have to tell you about this game changing product I used before a night out with drinks. It's called Pre Alcohol. From holiday parties to festive toast by the fire, the holidays are full of moments to share a day with friends and family. Whether you're celebrating a year end win or just relaxing after a busy day, being ready for the next morning still matters. Christmas parties, holiday dinners, late night gift wrapping. It's the season for celebration. Just don't forget the Zebiotics. Pre Alcohol probiotic drink. Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough warnings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. Gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct not dehydration. That's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Holiday season has me bopping around. All right, can I just tell you about my Saturday? Okay. I went to a mom at school's 40th birthday party. Okay. Which was a Pilates birthday party. So I was doing a little exercise for first, went to a Christmas market shindig near my house, taped a video for you guys. Then went to a Christmas party out in the suburbs. I schlepped to the suburbs. Okay, that's how much I love that friend. And then went back down to yet another Christmas party in town. How am I here on Monday morning? How am I doing this? It's a Zebiotics probiotic, let me tell you that. Make most of every toast this holiday season. Just don't forget to bring pre alcohol along for the ride. Go to zebiotics.com thebullwork to learn more and get 15% off your first order order when you use the bulwark at checkout. Zbatics is backed with 100 money back guarantee so if you're unsatisfied for any reason they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zebatics.com the bulwark and use the code the bulwark at checkout for 15% off. Two other just kind of more like actual policy elements of this getting out of meta thing that's hurting them. There's an interesting story in Politico about how doge cuts continue to reverberate in strange places out in America. One was public lands funding cut and they're focused on Montana state Democrats had one and not too long ago John Tester had won there. And things like wildlife biologists being cut and other things being cut that is hurting the ability to manage the land and how that is causing some consternation in parts of red America. I I just think that's another interesting data point. When you combine it with the farming stuff, you can't bail those people out. You're bailing out the farmers. And also today is the last day to enroll in Obamacare. The spikes for certain people is going to kick in in January, another round and Republicans are now kind of looking around for some last second deal to stall that. But they don't agree on anything and so who knows what that would actually look like Anyway, just On the actual, like governing part, there seem to be some issues as well.
- [42:41]
Bowen Yang
Maybe again, this is fanciful and just Pollyannish, but I talked with someone from Kansas a few days ago. He said the rural hospitals, the Obamacare thing is important. There are people individually who are now facing much higher premiums, but also whole communities are looking at the possibility of not having a hospital within 50 miles. I mean, you know, it's kind of bad if you have to go to an emergency room and stuff. And so that's partly doge and partly the consequence of cutting back some of the subsidies. So there are a few, there's less money for them, but there's more of that's happening. And I think the other thing is the tariffs, the farm stuff. I mean, you know, it affects all of us. Something's cost more than it did, 10% more and that's bad and so forth. I think out in the farm states, I mean, it really hits. It's not like this is an inconvenience or the prices aren't going up a little faster than they should be. I thought they would come down a bit and they're still going up some, which is kind of the standard, I'd say, consumer view of it all, which is not good for Trump either. But if you're a farmer or if you're in the farm economy, which includes a lot more people than farmers, and they have been selling whatever, 300 zillion tons of soybeans, however those things are measured and now a year ago to China and it's now 50 billion, which is, the numbers are pretty big, the differences, I made up the numbers obviously, but something like that and, and they know that that's real. That's like literally, I mean, a massive hit in this year due entirely to a Trump policy. It's not due to the weather, it's not due to complicated built in inflation leftover from Joe Biden. They were selling X amount last year. Trump put on these tariffs, they got a war with China. They're paying more for certain things because of the tariffs and they're also not selling certain things because of the trade wars. I wonder if Democrats should pay more attention to states like Kansas and Iowa in 2026.
- [44:26]
Matt Rogers
I mean, shit, can't hurt to give it a try. But I mean, look, the math, the economic math is also, it is just noticeably worse in those states. Like you just look at the data in Iowa and you kind of compare it to states that have more diverse economies and it's just like the numbers just aren't as good. And so that is going to have an impact. And I mentioned Alyssa, but also there is just this kind of viral image going around of like the lines outside the food bank in Kentucky, like how long it is, you know, and how it was kind of unprecedented. It's just one thing, it's an anecdote, but it is a lot of stuff adding up in places that are, you know, Trump strongholds, that maybe Democrats aren't going to win anytime soon, like a statewide Senate race in Kansas, but lowering margins, you know, doing things like this. And I. Iowa, it shouldn't be crazy for the Democrats to be thinking about winning in Iowa. There'll be a lot of talk about Texas on this podcast because it's like sexier and the name, the people are more famous and all that. But like, like Democrats won Iowa not that long ago. And, you know, the idea that some local person like Rob sand is demonstrated he can win statewide or somebody, the idea that somebody like that can win in, in the state shouldn't be crazy. And if things get as bad for Trump as they might and the Democrats don't win Iowa, that's actually a bigger wake up call from my perspective.
- [45:46]
Bowen Yang
Right. I, I agree. No, I agree that look at these. Kansas has a Democratic governor, Kentucky has as a Democratic governor. It's not like no Democrats ever won anything statewide there. Now, governor's easier than federal office. I understand all that Senator, who you're going to vote for for majority leader and all, but yeah, I think they should not give up on those states. And they're cheaper, honest. A tactical matter. You can fight a lot in Iowa and Kansas for about 1/5 the cost of fighting, you know, together. 1/5 the cost of fighting Texas. Right. So if I were actually running with the Democratic Senatorial Committee, I guess I would probably have the conventional view, we can't sweat ourselves too thin and all. But I, I really wonder if that would be a mistake to be too conventional this year, I think, and it might turn out that Kansas is more doable than Ohio or something, you know.
- [46:25]
Matt Rogers
Well, I talked about potential Democratic future and strategies and thoughts. I did want to mention one other thing. Alyssa Farah said on Friday that her prediction was that the Democrats were going to run it back with Kamala Harris as the nominee in 2028. I received some skeptical feedback to that from some Democratic listeners. And I also compared it, I think, I believe I said on the podcast, or at least I did in my brain, that I was like, that's a rather Bill Kristol Esque predict Alyssa. Not that you predict that same thing, but you like a. You like a kind of sexy, kind of fanciful cutting against the grain prediction. You do you like cutting against the grain prediction? Yeah, that's all I meant. And so anyway, there's some skepticism about what she said about it. Then literally the next day, Alex Thompson at Axios is like, she's planning this. Like, she's planning it. And who knows what actually happened? She expanded the book tour into some pretty noticeable, like, places that I don't think that you'd go if you're just trying to maximize books sales. So I. I don't have any inside info, but it's like, he's coming here to New Orleans. He's gonna be in Jackson, Mississippi. He's going to South Carolina. It's like, you know, is South Carolina really the prime place for selling 2024 campaign books? I don't think so. Anyway, Cinema 2028. Just. Just wanted to see if you had any. Any thoughts on that.
- [47:39]
Bowen Yang
No way. No way shouldn't happen, and I can't believe it will happen. And I say this is someone who thinks she's been unfairly blamed in some ways for 24. I think she's inherited a very difficult situation, ran a reasonable campaign, made takes, and has unfortunately said certain things in 2019. Whatever. I mean, but I'm not one of those who piled on her at all, really. I don't think that's right. But she should not be a candidate in 20. People want someone. They want to turn the page.
- [48:04]
Matt Rogers
Well, her line was, we're not going back last time. So you couldn't. You couldn't really use.
- [48:08]
Bowen Yang
No, I mean. Right, exactly. You just can't. No, it's got to be someone new. Someone different, I think. Someone who's not run for president. Well, maybe there's a question. I've actually wondered whether even Buttigieg, just for having run for president and been in the Biden cabinet, will get unfairly, in a way, hurt by the sense of, we just need a new face. Pete's young enough that maybe he is a new face still. I don't know. But no, it's not going to be Kamala, I don't think.
- [48:30]
Matt Rogers
What about Al Gore? Younger than the current president?
- [48:34]
Bowen Yang
Well, he hasn't been. He hasn't been in. He hasn't run for anything in 20 years, so. I know, I know. Younger than Biden. They're all younger than Biden and Trump. Actually.
- [48:43]
Matt Rogers
Something to think about.
- [48:44]
Bowen Yang
I don't know. No, I think to get back to. And it's a whole another conversation what kind of candidate they should have, the degree to which people will want someone who runs against Trump, obviously, but also against the past Democratic establishment, fairly or unfairly in some ways, with some of the attacks on the whole Clinton agenda, Clinton and Obama and all that's a little overdone, honestly. But having said that, people don't, I think they do want what Ro Khanna calls the, you know, they want someone to run against the whole Epstein class who run against the billionaires that you dislike so much and that I just, I dislike so much and that if you and I are moving to become quasi social Democrats, surely 70, 80 million Americans are, you know, we speak for the, for the, for the silent center, surely.
- [49:25]
Matt Rogers
Maybe not, but possibly. I'll downgrade you to possibly. All right, Bill Kristol, we do have, I'm just coming across right now the sad news that they have booked the Reiners kid, Nick Reiner in jail for this crime just is absolutely unimaginable and horrible. So thoughts go out to all the rest of the Reiner family. Bill Kristol, we'll see you back here. Will we see you back next Monday? Yes, we will. It won't be quite the holiday break yet. I'll see you back here next Monday. And we'll be back tomorrow. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [49:58]
Bowen Yang
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [50:01]
Matt Rogers
Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.
- [50:03]
Bowen Yang
Ugh. Stressing me out.
- [50:04]
Matt Rogers
Why are all the people I love so hard to shop for like me? Exactly, honey. I'm easy. But you're right.
- [50:10]
Bowen Yang
Holiday gifting is stressful. And all the gift guides out there are boring and uninspired.
- [50:15]
Matt Rogers
Wait, what about the guide we made.
- [50:16]
Bowen Yang
In partnership with Marshalls where premium gifts mean incredible value? It's Giving Gifts, a series of guides.
- [50:23]
Matt Rogers
Filled with premium gifts at great value for everyone on your list.
- [50:26]
Bowen Yang
Yeah.
- [50:26]
Matt Rogers
Cause if I see one more for.
- [50:28]
Bowen Yang
The dad who likes golf list, I'm out. Right.
- [50:31]
Matt Rogers
How about something for the people who.
- [50:32]
Bowen Yang
Actually surprise you with categories like best gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto.
- [50:38]
Matt Rogers
Psst.
- [50:39]
Bowen Yang
She wants a pair of stilettos.
- [50:40]
Matt Rogers
Or best gifts for me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have.
- [50:44]
Bowen Yang
Dying to see what those are.
- [50:45]
Matt Rogers
And you won't believe their prices.
- [50:47]
Bowen Yang
Just wait till you see what else is in there. It's basically a one stop shop for everyone. You know, I started Bookmarking half the list for myself. Honestly, this is the guy for the 2025 holiday gifting season. Check out the guide on marshalls.com it's giving gifts gift the good stuff at.
- [51:03]
Matt Rogers
Marshalls Zofluza Baloxavir Marboxyl is just one dose, but there's more than one way to save on your Xofluza prescription. With the Zofluza coupon, eligible patients may.
- [51:11]
Bowen Yang
Pay as little as $35 up to.
- [51:13]
Matt Rogers
$70 off or pay $50 at select pharmacies. Visit zoefluza.com to learn more. Now we are going to the new Monday Mailbag segment that we're trying out for Bullord. Plus members appreciate you guys who are supporting us. One of the big benefits of Bullord actually is you get to comment and be part of the community over on our sub stack or here on YouTube as well. There's kind of a separate Borg comment section. So I guess I get to see what you say. I get to see your negative feedback more often. Pay to criticize me. Okay, that's great. That's worthwhile. So I wanted to try this. It's the first time. We'll take your feedback afterwards on how it's going, but going to run through some questions, some serious, some a little silly. And we'll start with it's actually before we turn the questions. If you don't like the questions that come up, you think you have a better one, more entertaining one. Interesting, insightful. Email us bulwarkpodcasthebolwerk.com first question I grabbed is from Ann. It's re immigration. She writes Immigration policy is a third rail for Dems. It seems to have been conflated with the opioid crisis. A crime without an opposition. Offering another perspective. When Dems are in office, they're weak and incremental about the issue. Who's trying to solve the problem? Who has good messaging to explain to American people how much we rely on immigrants, the actual number of criminals, where drugs come from, how ignoring climate change makes the problem worse. It's tough. It's always easier to be the side that is just demagoguing than to be the side offering nuanced policy. So we solutions. I think we had one good example I saw from over the weekend of somebody that's handling this pretty well, and that's James Talarico running for Senate in Texas. He was on Jubilee doing that thing I did where you sit in the circle and argue with people. And he was asked about immigration. Let's take a listen to his answer, the metaphor I've used is that our.
- [52:55]
Bowen Yang
Southern border should be like our front porch. There should be a giant welcome mat out front and a lock on the door.
- [53:01]
Matt Rogers
We can both welcome the stranger, welcome immigrants, Immigrants who want to contribute to.
- [53:05]
Bowen Yang
This economy, who want to live the American dream, who want to make us stronger and richer, and we can keep people out who mean to do us harm. I will say what I think not enough Democrats have been willing to say. Joe Biden failed us on our southern border. I remember talking to my colleagues in the Texas legislature who represent border communities.
- [53:25]
Matt Rogers
They told me about the utter chaos on the border and that failure by Joe Biden.
- [53:30]
Bowen Yang
Biden paved the way for Donald Trump to come in with masked men in.
- [53:34]
Matt Rogers
Unmarked vehicles, secret police tearing parents from.
- [53:38]
Bowen Yang
Their children, kidnapping people off the street. I think both parties have failed us on this issue.
- [53:44]
Matt Rogers
I think we all should come together.
- [53:45]
Bowen Yang
And finally pass comprehensive immigration reform. More immigration judges, more border patrol, modernize.
- [53:51]
Matt Rogers
Our ports of entry where most of.
- [53:53]
Bowen Yang
The fentanyl gets in, reform our asylum system, relieve the visa background backlog. We should finally fix this problem instead of grandstanding on it.
- [54:01]
Matt Rogers
I like how clear he is in separating from Biden. Like, it's not subtle. You know, it's not caveat. It's just Biden administration handled this poorly. We need to do something different. So I thought that part was good. I do. Both Tall Rico and Crockett have kind of relied on this, like, trope about how, like, Americans won't do these jobs, which is one of those things. That's true, but not a particularly helpful political argument. I don't think that'd be my one note for Telorico. I think that focusing the messaging on opposing what Trump has done, there's been a thermostatic negative reaction to what Trump has done. You just look at the polling. People are more positive on immigration now than they've been in a while. Kind of about these broad pains to American tradition. Also talking very clearly about security and border security and keeping out drug traffickers and criminals and doing the things Trump said he was going to do but didn't do, I think that's the right place for Democrats to be. And I think being, you know, passionate about going against how Trump has acted with the mass thugs, being passionate about opposing Trump in all these areas where he's advanced things that are unpopular is good, while also just being very clear about the ways that the Biden administration failed on this issue. Pretty good job there by James Talarico. B plus A minus. All right, everybody the questions get more fun after this. Okay, but you got to be a Bulwark plus member to get it. Join the community. Love to have you sign up@the bulwark.com and I got some doozies for you. Appreciate you guys all very much. We'll be back tomorrow for another edition of the show. See you all then.
- [55:38]
Bowen Yang
Made a meal and threw it up.
- [55:40]
Matt Rogers
On Sunday I got a lot of.
- [55:45]
Bowen Yang
Things to learn Said I wouldn't not.
- [55:51]
Matt Rogers
Believe in one day before my heart starts to bl so what's the matter with you? Sing me something new Dancing me out of cold all the wind and rain down now the only seem to come and go away. Times are hot when things have got no meaning FL.
- [56:34]
Bowen Yang
Maybe you and I.
- [56:36]
Matt Rogers
Will not proper the things we find behind. So what's the matter with you? Sing me something new Bouncing out color when the rains on down y seems to come and go away me. Stand by me Nobody know the way it's gonna be Stand by me nobody knows. The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown. Get ahead with one dose Xofluza Baloxavir Marboxel Xofluza is available for delivery by mail or at your local pharmacy. Don't wait at until it's too late. Be ready with Sofluza. Ask your doctor about xofluza and visit.
- [57:58]
Bowen Yang
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- [58:14]
Matt Rogers
Alerts you to threats you could miss.
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Bowen Yang
If your identity is stolen, Lifelock will fix it. Guarantee guaranteed or your money back. Make this season about joy, not identity theft. With Lifelock, save up to 40% your first year@lifelock.com iheart terms apply.
- [58:30]
Matt Rogers
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