The Bulwark Podcast: "Bill Kristol and Elaina Plott Calabro: A Sordid Lot" Release Date: December 2, 2024

In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a robust discussion with journalist Elena Plot Calabro and political commentator Bill Kristol. The conversation delves into the controversial nominations within the Trump administration, focusing primarily on Cash Patel’s impending nomination for FBI Director and Pete Hegseth’s candidacy for Secretary of Defense. Additionally, the episode touches upon President Biden’s pardon of his son, Hunter Biden, examining its implications and perceived inconsistencies.

1. Cash Patel’s Nomination for FBI Director

Elena Plot Calabro’s In-Depth Profile

Elena Plot Calabro begins by dissecting Cash Patel’s background, painting a picture of a man whose qualifications for the FBI Director position are highly questionable. She emphasizes Patel's minimal public profile despite his significant roles within the Trump administration.

Elena Plot Calabro [00:53]: "I mean, it's crazy. ... the assignments that he was giving Kamala Harris. I think the fact that he gave her the so-called root causes issue of border policy ... said all you needed to say about how seriously he took her future in the party."

Concerns Over Qualifications and Integrity

Calabro highlights Patel's lack of relevant experience, noting his tenure as Chief of Staff to the Acting Secretary of Defense and his involvement in dubious initiatives like the "Italy Gate" conspiracy theory.

Elena Plot Calabro [04:28]: "Cash Patel is really insistent that we get people on the ground to interview them ... only took somebody else in DOD to be like, hey, no, I'm not doing this, which was shut down."

Notable Incidents Illustrating Dishonesty

One particularly alarming anecdote involves Patel falsely assuring Department of Defense officials that Secretary Pompeo had secured airspace clearance for a hostage rescue mission in Niger, leading to a near-disastrous situation when the truth emerged.

Elena Plot Calabro [16:19]: "He was just incredibly blasé and said, if nobody dies, who the f cares?"

2. Bill Kristol’s Analysis and Concerns

Appalling Nomination and Government Implications

Bill Kristol vehemently criticizes Cash Patel’s nomination, describing it as a disastrous choice that threatens the integrity of the FBI and the broader government apparatus.

Bill Kristol [36:37]: "It's an appalling nomination. ... They’ve been, if you think, just step back."

Comparison with Other Nominees

Kristol contrasts Patel with other nominees like Pete Hegseth, asserting that Patel’s unfitness surpasses even the controversial choices seen in previous administrations.

Bill Kristol [38:52]: "Patel is worse really than Gates by himself."

Potential for Authoritarianism and Policy Undermining

He warns of the dangers Patel poses in centralizing power and undermining civil liberties, emphasizing the perilous path towards authoritarianism.

Bill Kristol [44:01]: "They're going to do a lot of damage. ... So it's really terrible."

3. President Biden’s Pardon of Hunter Biden

Tim Miller and Bill Kristol on the Pardon’s Implications

The discussion shifts to President Biden’s decision to pardon his son, Hunter Biden. Both Tim Miller and Bill Kristol dissect the move, questioning its motivations and highlighting perceived hypocrisies.

Bill Kristol [50:40]: "No, a big mistake, I think, on the merits. ... So I'm against it anyway."

Critique of Inconsistencies in Upholding the Rule of Law

They argue that while Trump’s administration is under fire for disregarding norms, Biden’s pardon undermines his own stance on legal accountability, creating a double standard.

Tim Miller [52:10]: "This defense is still like, oh, that Trump is immediately moving to gulags. ... but Hunter Biden would still have to go in front of a jury's."

4. Pete Hegseth’s Nomination for Secretary of Defense

Allegations of Misconduct and Unfitness

The conversation pivots to Pete Hegseth, whose nomination is marred by serious allegations of misconduct, including sexual harassment and inappropriate behavior within veteran organizations he led.

Tim Miller [64:57]: "He did it at every organization that he was at, at both of these nonprofit grass tops, astroturf groups, also at Fox. His behavior in the workplace is unacceptable."

Historical Comparison with John Tower’s Rejection

Kristol draws parallels between Hegseth’s nomination and the historical rejection of John Tower, highlighting the increased scrutiny and lower tolerance for misconduct in today’s political climate.

Bill Kristol [70:43]: "People were shocked that Tower was rejected. ... he's never worked in an organization that actually has anyone but people who agree with him."

Implications for Military and Government Stability

He underscores the potential damage Hegseth’s appointment could inflict on the military’s integrity and the Defense Department’s functionality.

Bill Kristol [73:40]: "It's both putting in someone wildly unqualified ... the civil servants or non-political military officers, but the FBI incidentally."

5. Broader Implications for Government and Democracy

Erosion of Institutional Integrity

Kristol and Calabro express deep concerns about how these nominations reflect a broader trend of undermining institutional checks and balances, potentially leading to increased authoritarianism.

Bill Kristol [73:40]: "The long-term Chaos in the Pentagon ... authoritarian infrastructure of Trumpism Heritage foundation."

Impact on Civil Liberties and Rule of Law

The discussions highlight the threat posed to civil liberties and the rule of law, emphasizing that these appointments could lead to targeted persecution of political opponents and media personnel.

Bill Kristol [42:41]: "There's nothing animating this person other than devotion to Trump. ... individual right to life."

6. Final Thoughts on Foreign Policy and National Security

Hope Amidst Turmoil

Despite the grim discussions, Kristol offers a glimmer of hope regarding international movements towards freedom and resistance against authoritarian regimes, noting the resilience of nations like Georgia, Syria, and Ukraine.

Bill Kristol [75:05]: "They want freedom. They want basically to live in, you know, the world that we are privileged ... This is heartening to me."

Warning Against Authoritarian Leadership

He cautions against allowing authoritarian tendencies to dominate foreign policy, stressing that the current administration’s trajectory could have dire consequences for global stability.

Bill Kristol [76:22]: "If you're an authoritarian and you take the chaos in the short term to end up with the political loyalists in the medium long term."

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast provides a thorough and critical examination of key political appointments within the Trump administration, highlighting significant concerns about qualifications, integrity, and the potential erosion of democratic institutions. Through incisive analysis and firsthand reporting, Elena Plot Calabro and Bill Kristol underscore the profound implications these nominations hold for the future of American governance and the preservation of democratic norms.

Notable Quotes:

• Elena Plot Calabro [04:28]: "Cash Patel is really insistent that we get people on the ground to interview them ... but we'll figure that out."

• Bill Kristol [36:37]: "The unimportant agencies, they went to the more respectable people. Right. Doug Burkham. What is Burkham going to be?"

• Elena Plot Calabro [16:19]: "If nobody dies, who the f cares?"

• Bill Kristol [70:43]: "People were shocked that Tower was rejected. ... He was a pretty articulate spokesman for the surge and good to have a young veteran obviously do that."

This detailed summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights shared by Tim Miller, Elena Plot Calabro, and Bill Kristol, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the episode’s key themes and arguments.