The Bulwark Podcast
Episode: Bill Kristol and Jared Polis: Send In the Clown
Release Date: February 24, 2025
Hosts: Tim Miller, Bill Kristol, Dan Bongino
Guests: Bill Kristol, Jared Polis

1. Dan Bongino’s Appointment as FBI Deputy Director

[00:30] Dan Bongino humorously announces his own takeover as the Deputy Director of the FBI, setting the tone for a critical discussion about recent appointments within the federal government.

[00:38] Bill Kristol shares his skepticism about Bongino, describing him as "one of the more clownish of the Trumpists."

[02:00] Bongino criticizes the qualifications of his own appointment, questioning whether such temperament is suitable for the FBI's leadership:
"Libs are the biggest pussies I've ever seen... Does that seem like the temperament for somebody that we want for the number two slot at the Federal Bureau of Investigation?"

[02:37] Kristol echoes concerns about the potential damage to federal institutions, emphasizing that these appointments could weaken checks and balances:
"They are committed to doing a huge amount of damage to our institutions and to our system."

2. Purge of Generals at the Department of Defense

[08:00] The conversation shifts to recent firings within the Department of Defense, including the appointment of a new Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, whom Kristol describes as lacking independent standing:
"He worked in the Biden administration... but he's not a four-star, hasn't had a combatant command. They want someone more beholden to them."

[10:21] Bongino highlights the removal of JAG officers, suggesting it undermines legal integrity within the military:
"The types of person that is going to want that job... are going to be people on board with anything goes."

3. Bob Kagan’s Warnings on U.S. Autocracy

[12:22] Kristol references a conversation with political scientist Bob Kagan, who warns about the accelerated path towards autocracy in the U.S., exacerbated by recent federal appointments:
"It's a race between the increasing revulsion really against Musk and Trump and the willingness to begin to abandon him."

[16:26] The discussion underscores the need for proactive defense of democratic institutions before autocratic tendencies become entrenched.

4. The Principal’s First Conference and Intimidation Tactics

[17:00] Tim Miller recounts attending the Principal's First Conference, where extremist groups like the Proud Boys made appearances, heightening concerns about growing intimidation:
"The proud boys showed up... then the next day there was a bomb threat."

[19:38] A powerful clip from Michael Fanone is played, where he condemns Donald Trump’s pardoning of insurrectionists:
"Donald Trump sent police officers to assault individuals... He wants people to know that if you commit crimes on his behalf, he's got your back."
([18:48])

[20:19] Kristol reflects on Fanone’s remarks, emphasizing the normalization of such extremist behavior and its implications for free speech and assembly:
"They can do an awful lot of making life unpleasant for people and deterring people therefore from exercising their rights."

5. German Elections and International Implications

[23:43] The episode transitions to international politics, focusing on Germany's recent elections where the far-right AfD party increased its vote share to nearly 20%, influenced by figures like Elon Musk and JD Vance:
"They ended up getting just about 20% of the vote in a six, seven-way election."
([24:26])

[27:25] Bongino warns of increased foreign interference in elections, drawing parallels to Russian tactics, and expresses skepticism about the long-term influence of these interventions:
"These guys aren't popular in most other countries. They do not like Trump, they are growing to hate Musk."

[29:31] Kristol offers a balanced view, noting a positive backlash against Trump and Musk but cautions about the ongoing damage to democratic institutions:
"It's a race between the increasing revulsion really against Musk and Trump and the willingness to begin to abandon him."

6. Conversation with Governor Jared Polis on Principles and Policies

[31:35] The latter part of the episode features a panel discussion with Colorado Governor Jared Polis and panelist Sarah Longwell, focusing on the adherence to a set of principles outlined by The Bulwark.

[33:27] Polis discusses his alignment with The Bulwark’s principles, emphasizing integrity, free markets, and regulatory reform:
"We need EPA reform... free and functioning markets deliver prosperity."
([37:23])

[37:20] Tim Miller and Polis debate the effectiveness of government reforms in Colorado versus coastal states, with Polis advocating for tax cuts and housing reforms as solutions:
"We cut property taxes too. We capped any future property tax increases of 5%."
([41:35])

[44:07] The conversation touches on sensitive topics like gender in youth sports, with Polis advocating for fairness while maintaining participation:
"We want fairness in sports, but we want participation in sports."
([43:39])

[49:01] Polis expresses concern over federal policies, particularly tariffs and their impact on Colorado’s economy, while maintaining optimism about potential improvements:
"If there's less tariffs, less restrictions on trade, that would be wonderful."
([51:49])

7. Closing Remarks and Final Reflections

[55:29] Bongino and Miller encourage listeners to speak out against intimidation and support democratic principles, highlighting the importance of courage and integrity in political discourse.

[62:04] Jared Polis concludes with reflections on the state of the nation, expressing hope for collaborative efforts to combat ongoing challenges:
"We need more research... improving health, diet, and nutrition."
([60:52])

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast delves deep into the ramifications of recent federal appointments, the erosion of democratic institutions, international political shifts, and the ongoing struggle to uphold liberal democratic values. Through incisive discussions with Bill Kristol and interactions with Governor Jared Polis, the podcast underscores the urgent need for vigilance and proactive measures to safeguard democracy both domestically and internationally.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Bongino
  "[02:00] Libs are the biggest pussies I've ever seen... Does that seem like the temperament for somebody that we want for the number two slot at the Federal Bureau of Investigation?"

• Bill Kristol
  "[07:01] The competent active agent probably was not pro January 6th insurrection and probably not pro would not defend the truth of the big lie about the 2020 election."

• Michael Fanone
  "[18:48] Donald Trump sent police officers to assault individuals... He wants people to know that if you commit crimes on his behalf, he's got your back."

• Governor Jared Polis
  "[37:23] We need EPA reform... free and functioning markets deliver prosperity."

For listeners who missed the episode, this summary provides a comprehensive overview of the critical discussions surrounding the integrity of federal institutions, the rise of extremist influences, and the strategies needed to maintain and strengthen democratic values in the face of mounting challenges.