The Bulwark Podcast: Bill Kristol and Terry Moran - True American Spirit
Release Date: June 16, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller sits down with Bill Kristol, editor at large of The Bulwark, and Terry Moran, former senior national correspondent for ABC News, to dissect the current political landscape in the United States. The conversation delves deep into recent events, including political parades, immigration policies, military actions, and the broader implications for American democracy.

No Kings Parade vs. Military Parade

The episode opens with a discussion about the contrasting sentiments between the recent No Kings parades and the military-sponsored events celebrating President Trump's tenure.

Tim Miller [01:26]:
"On the positive side, just the view from the whole country was really astonishing... in contrast to the really limp military parade."

Bill Kristol [04:09]:
"The spirit was high... a combination of anger and genuine indignation... and a sense of humor."

Key Points:

• The No Kings parades in cities like New Orleans showcased significant public support against Trump, highlighting a visible protest movement.
• In contrast, the military parades celebrating Trump were perceived as lackluster and poorly executed, leading to disappointment among observers.
• Both events reflect the deep political and social divisions within the country, emphasizing the need for a broad pro-democracy coalition.

Concerns About Authoritarianism and Militarization

Kristol and Moran express concerns about the potential shift towards authoritarianism, particularly focusing on the recent military parade and its implications.

Tim Miller [08:21]:
"So no, there definitely is a spirit and I think that ties into the immigration element and it ties into kind of what the country's about."

Bill Kristol [12:57]:
"Trump is president and controls the executive branch and Congress. But I don't think it was."

Key Points:

• Moran criticizes the military parade as a step towards politicizing the armed forces, which could undermine their integrity and neutrality.
• Kristol suggests that while the authoritarian agenda remains a concern, there are signs of pushback and resistance within the military ranks.
• The conversation underscores the fragility of democratic institutions in the face of rising authoritarian tendencies.

Mass Deportation and ICE Raids

A significant portion of the discussion centers around President Trump's intensified efforts to enforce immigration laws, leading to mass deportations in major Democratic strongholds.

Tim Miller [15:03]:
"He's been sending ICE officers into Democratic areas to wreak havoc on these communities."

Bill Kristol [18:27]:
"Trump has demonstrated with law firms, with universities, with companies that he will bring all the power he can."

Key Points:

• Trump orders ICE to prioritize deportations in cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York, aiming to dismantle communities that support Democratic policies.
• Moran and Kristol critique these policies as not only cruel but also counterproductive, fostering fear and division.
• The conversation highlights the erosion of due process and the dangers of using federal agencies for political retribution.

Assassination Attempts in Minnesota

The podcast addresses the recent violent attacks targeting Democratic leaders in Minnesota, reflecting the escalating political violence in the country.

Tim Miller [23:21]:
"Assassination attempts for anybody that missed it... State House Democratic leader Melissa Hortman was killed."

Bill Kristol [24:30]:
"The MAGA right was willing to spin this on social media, misrepresenting the assailant's motivations."

Key Points:

• Minnesota witnessed brutal attacks on Democratic legislators, orchestrated by individuals with extreme anti-left sentiments.
• Both hosts condemn the violence and criticize the immediate attempts by some right-wing figures to mischaracterize the assailant's motives.
• The discussion emphasizes the toxic polarization and the breakdown of civil discourse leading to real-world violence.

Trump's Leadership Style and Foreign Policy

The conversation shifts to President Trump's approach to leadership, particularly his interactions with world leaders and his stance on foreign conflicts.

Terry Moran [36:58]:
"The competence of this attack from Hezbollah has been awfully impressive."

Bill Kristol [40:12]:
"One reason he's getting away with it is that the Israeli government is helping him."

Key Points:

• Moran praises the strategic successes of Israel under Netanyahu's leadership while critiquing Trump’s foreign policy maneuvers.
• Kristol discusses the internal dynamics of the Republican Party, noting efforts to flatter Trump to maintain influence within his administration.
• The hosts analyze Trump's inconsistent and often contradictory foreign policy decisions, questioning their long-term efficacy and impact on global stability.

Interview with Terry Moran: From ABC News to Substack

A significant segment features Terry Moran reflecting on his departure from ABC News following a controversial tweet about Stephen Miller, a key Trump strategist.

Tim Miller [45:34]:
"You were senior national correspondent for ABC up till about two seconds ago."

Terry Moran [47:19]:
"I wrote it because I thought it was true... Stephen Miller is a danger."

Notable Quotes:

• Terry Moran [47:19]:
  "The thing about Stephen Miller is he's not the brains behind Trumpism. It's not brains, it's bile... his hatreds are his spiritual nourishment."
  (Timestamp: 47:19)

Key Points:

• Moran candidly discusses the motivations behind his contentious tweet, revealing deep-seated frustrations with Stephen Miller's influence on Trump’s policies.
• The interview sheds light on the pressures faced by journalists in volatile political climates and Moran’s decision to continue his work independently through Substack.
• Moran emphasizes the importance of truth-telling in journalism, despite potential repercussions, highlighting his commitment to exposing what he perceives as threats to American democracy.

The Future of American Democracy

In their closing remarks, Kristol and Moran contemplate the trajectory of American democracy amidst rising authoritarianism, political violence, and societal divisions.

Terry Moran [82:00]:
"This is a moment of danger, and I'm happy to be able to help if I can."

Bill Kristol [80:53]:
"We're beyond pretending that's the case. It's just these states run by cities run by Democrats."

Key Points:

• The hosts express optimism that American democratic institutions have resilience, despite the challenges posed by authoritarian tendencies.
• Moran draws parallels with recent authoritarian shifts in countries like Russia and Poland, urging vigilance to prevent similar erosions of democratic norms in the U.S.
• They call for collective action to uphold democratic values, emphasizing the role of informed citizens and the media in maintaining a free and just society.

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast provides a comprehensive analysis of the current American political climate, highlighting the tensions between democratic ideals and authoritarian impulses. Through insightful dialogue and firsthand experiences, Bill Kristol and Terry Moran offer listeners a nuanced perspective on the challenges facing the United States, underscoring the critical need for vigilance, unity, and unwavering commitment to democratic principles.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Terry Moran [47:19]:
  "The thing about Stephen Miller is he's not the brains behind Trumpism. It's not brains, it's bile... his hatreds are his spiritual nourishment."

• Bill Kristol [24:30]:
  "Trump is president and controls the executive branch and Congress. But I don't think it was."

• Tim Miller [08:21]:
  "So no, there definitely is a spirit and I think that ties into the immigration element and it ties into kind of what the country's about."

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a clear and comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the full podcast.