The Bulwark Podcast: "Bill Kristol: Cannons All the Way Down" Summary

Release Date: January 13, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol

1. Legal Proceedings and the Jack Smith Report

Discussion Highlights:

The episode begins with Tim Miller updating listeners on the legal maneuvers surrounding the release of the Jack Smith Report. Initially, motions filed by Donald Trump's associates, including Walt Nauta, aimed to delay the report's publication were granted by Judge Eileen Cannon. However, these motions have since been denied, clearing the path for the report's imminent release.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller [00:00]: "As of right now, there are no legal barriers to the release of the Jack Smith report. So hopefully we'll be seeing that soon..."

• Bill Kristol [04:12]: "Trump's Justice Department is going to draft the case against Nauta and the other Trump employee a week from now. So it's all ridiculous."

Key Insights:

• Jurisdictional Overreach: Kristol criticizes Judge Cannon for overstepping her jurisdiction, noting she only has authority over the classified documents case, not the Jack Smith trial.

• Asymmetrical Justice: There is a clear disparity in how legal proceedings are handled between former President Trump and current President Joe Biden, with Biden receiving a more transparent and swift judicial process.

2. Inauguration and Political Grift

Discussion Highlights:

The conversation shifts to the upcoming inauguration, highlighting the inclusion of a MAGA rally followed by a candlelight dinner—a departure from traditional inauguration events. Kristol comments on Trump's penchant for exploiting occasions for fundraising, suggesting that Trump's administration may continue this trend with future events.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol [02:10]: "It's all grift, isn't it? I'm sure I haven't seen it, but I've seen the announcement."

• Tim Miller [05:57]: "The rule that the defendant has an opportunity to get a fair and speedy trial is one of the things that underline our justice system. What about the other way around in United States versus Donald Trump?"

Key Insights:

• Fundraising Tactics: Kristol underscores Trump's inability to forego monetizing events, hinting at upcoming financial exploits tied to inauguration activities.

• Electoral and Judicial Implications: The discussion emphasizes the loopholes and manipulative strategies employed by Trump and his legal team, contrasting sharply with the handled-by-the-book approach of Biden's administration.

3. FBI's Handling of Classified Documents: Chris Wray Interview

Discussion Highlights:

Tim Miller introduces and plays audio from Chris Wray's "60 Minutes" interview, where Wray defends the FBI's actions in retrieving classified documents from Trump. The podcast delves into Wray's explanations and the broader implications for institutional trust.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Wray [07:42]: "Part of the FBI's job is to safeguard classified information... we are left with no choice but to go to a federal judge, make a probable cause showing and get a search warrant."

• Bill Kristol [10:06]: "Joe Biden has some documents, they were investigated in a very serious way. Not like this very tiny... Trump is trying now not even to have a report that might be critical of him."

Key Insights:

• Institutional Bias: Kristol points out the unequal treatment between Trump and Biden regarding classified documents, highlighting how Trump’s actions are met with significant legal hurdles compared to Biden's cooperative stance.

• Public Perception: The podcast critiques how figures like Chris Wray and the FBI may be unfairly blamed or seen as politicized when following protocol, especially in high-profile cases involving former presidents.

4. Democratic Party Strategies and the DNC Chair Race

Discussion Highlights:

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the Democratic National Committee (DNC) chair race, examining candidates like Ken Martin, Ben Wickler, and Martin O'Malley. Kristol criticizes the DNC's emphasis on diversity terminology, suggesting it may detract from effective party strategy.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol [34:41]: "If you cut away all the bs, that's it. And it's not really about ideology or any of that."

• Tim Miller [30:45]: "There are times when we need to protect Trump for himself. ... I don't dig it."

Key Insights:

• Diversity vs. Strategy: Kristol argues that the DNC's focus on inclusive language ("interfaith," "ethnic aanhpi") may be superficial and questions its effectiveness in actual electoral strategy.

• Party Leadership Competence: The discussion emphasizes the need for competent, strategic leadership within the DNC that prioritizes winning elections and combating Trump's influence over mere representation.

5. John Fetterman's Engagement with Trump and Party Cohesion

Discussion Highlights:

John Fetterman's recent meeting with Trump at Mar-a-Lago sparks a debate on its implications for party unity and strategic positioning. Kristol expresses skepticism about the motives and outcomes of such interactions.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol [24:33]: "I have no impression that there was any sort of sending a message to Trump."

• Tim Miller [25:54]: "The thumbs up pictures... I just don't dig it."

Key Insights:

• Strategic Gambits: Fetterman's engagement with Trump is critiqued as possibly undermining Democratic efforts to present a united front against Trump, suggesting a lack of coherent strategy.

• Party Image: The conversation highlights concerns that such actions may appear insincere or self-serving, potentially alienating key voter demographics.

6. Institutional Integrity and Future Challenges

Discussion Highlights:

Kristol warns of the potential politicization of institutions under Trump's influence, particularly focusing on the FBI. He underscores the importance of maintaining institutional integrity to safeguard democratic norms.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol [05:28]: "Pam Bondi as Attorney General's not going to make that mistake. We're looking at Judge Cannons all the way, and the Republican Senate confirming all of them."

• Bill Kristol [42:35]: "The bullying side of my Magas and Musk and the tech pros... I find the bullying... personally so off-putting."

Key Insights:

• Judicial Appointments: Kristol anticipates a flood of Trump-appointed judges, forecasting significant shifts in the judiciary that may favor partisan agendas over impartial justice.

• Cultural Shifts: The episode delves into the broader cultural challenges posed by figures like Elon Musk and the normalization of bullying behavior in political and corporate arenas, which Kristol finds deeply problematic.

7. Closing Thoughts and Reflections

Discussion Highlights:

In the closing segments, Kristol reflects on broader political dynamics, the importance of opposing autocratic tendencies, and the need for effective Democratic leadership to counteract Trump's strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol [48:05]: "Trump is not for American greatness. Trump is for bullying a couple of little countries, mostly even symbolic bullying..."

• Tim Miller [42:24]: "I do believe that... if one can organize in response to it in effective ways, one could really fight back effectively."

Key Insights:

• Anti-Autocracy Stance: The podcast reinforces The Bulwark's commitment to opposing autocratic leaders and preserving liberal democracy through strategic political action.

• Leadership and Organization: Emphasizing the need for strong, principled leadership within the Democratic Party, Kristol advocates for proactive measures to dismantle bullying and authoritarian practices in politics.

Conclusion

In "Cannons All the Way Down," Bill Kristol provides a critical analysis of the ongoing political battles surrounding Donald Trump, the Democratic Party's internal strategies, and the integrity of American institutions. The episode underscores the challenges of maintaining institutional fairness, the pitfalls of superficial diversity efforts, and the imperative for robust opposition against autocratic tendencies to preserve democratic norms.

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