The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Bill Kristol: Escalating the Authoritarian Project

Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol, Editor-at-Large at The Bulwark
Date: September 8, 2025

Brief Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller and Bill Kristol dissect the rapidly advancing authoritarian agenda under Donald Trump’s second administration. They examine the consolidation of power within the Republican party, the erosion of institutional checks, controversial military actions abroad, Trump’s “Department of War” rebrand, and internal weaknesses in the administration. The conversation blends deep concern with moments of humor and sharp critique, while underscoring the stakes for American democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Consolidation of Power

[01:49 – 06:03]

• Kristol opens by declaring, “Donald Trump has had a strikingly successful first seven and a half months in office.”
  • He elaborates that while Trump’s raw popularity is declining, his consolidation of internal power and elimination of dissent in the GOP far exceeds expectations.
  • The Republican tent is essentially “on board with the authoritarian project,” with precious few exceptions (Rand Paul, Lisa Murkowski, “occasionally”).
• Tim Miller points out the disconnect: Trump has been more effective at “winning these internal battles and doing these performative, fascistic things than he has been at actually delivering results for people.”
• Kristol warns that the real battleground isn’t limited to public approval or federal agencies, but includes powerful societal institutions, business, and other government levels, which Trump has “bludgeoned and intimidated” into submission.

“If he has another seven months like this, this nation is in deep, deep trouble.”
— Bill Kristol [02:55]

2. Lack of Elite Pushback and Institutional Failure

[06:03 – 09:06]

• Miller and Kristol discuss Ken Griffin’s tepid criticism of Trump’s threats to the Fed, labeling it as extraordinarily rare and mild for a corporate leader.
• Even as Trump upends sacrosanct norms like the Fed’s independence, business leaders largely stay silent, highlighting how far elite pushback has eroded compared to 2017.
• Kristol laments: “It’s kind of sad that we think one expression of concern … is as much progress as we should be making.” [07:21]
• Anecdote about Tim Cook’s (Apple) obsequious gratitude toward Trump underscores business leaders’ fear-fueled compliance.

3. Polls, Public Approval, and Movability of the MAGA Base

[08:15 – 10:39]

• Kristol notes a 10-point dive in “strongly approve” numbers among the public, versus a 10-point rise in “strongly disapprove.”
  • Strongly approve: from 34% to 24% (since January)
  • Strongly disapprove: from 36% to 46%
• Kristol sees this as evidence that even the vaunted MAGA base “isn’t quite so impenetrable” as believed:

“…the fact that 10 out of 34%—what’s that, about 30% of that 34—were able to be moved over strikes me that maybe that base isn't quite so impenetrable.”
— Bill Kristol [09:54]

• Miller is cautiously optimistic: There’s softening, but Trump’s floor of support may still be high.

4. Trump’s Foreign and Domestic “Wars”: Venezuela Incident & Chicago

[12:28 – 24:26]

• The two analyze Trump’s order to attack a Venezuelan boat, questioning the legality and morality of the action.
  • Legal experts see it as outside traditional norms and possibly a “murder at sea.”
  • Military checks (Coast Guard, Pentagon lawyers) appear to have been circumvented, raising alarm about a president willing to ignore both domestic and international law.
  • Rubio’s admission that interception was possible but not attempted further undermines official justifications.
  • Miller: “It’s really more reminiscent of the El Salvador situation.”
• Kristol:

“The fact that they haven’t said anything, I think shows they have a problem. I hope it shows they have a problem...”
— Bill Kristol [13:46]

• Vice President JD Vance responds to accusations of war crimes with: “I don’t give a shit what you called it.” [20:52]
  • Miller: “The vice president responding, saying, I don’t give a shit if we’re doing war crimes. I guess they don’t.”
• Trump administration’s rhetoric described as gaslighting, Orwellian, and propagandistic in defending the attack and dehumanizing migrants.

5. The “Department of War” and Authoritarian Symbolism

[27:54 – 32:16]

• Trump’s meme suggesting “Chicago is about to find out why it’s called the Department of War” becomes a point of discussion.
  • Kristol: Using the military against citizens is “almost the literal defense of an authoritarian takeover.” [27:54]
  • The rebranding from “Defense” to “War” is “childish and performative” but symbolically significant—an embrace of a nostalgic, militaristic vision.
  • Miller and Kristol agree that, while likely to thrill Trump’s most rabid base, the move may be both bad branding and offer Democrats an opportunity for clear thematic contrast.

6. Chaos and Nicknames: Rose Garden Club & Team Dysfunction

[34:08 – 41:57]

• Trump has repurposed the White House Rose Garden into a social club, prompting mockery over his “catalog of old man cultural references” (e.g., “Bobsy twins”).
• Discussion of Scott Besant, Trump’s Treasury Secretary, who was combative on TV and even threatened violence against rivals at a Georgetown club event:
  • “I’m gonna punch you in your fucking face … I’m gonna fucking beat your ass.” [41:36]
  • Kristol notes this reflects the overall paranoia and instability among Trump’s inner circle.
  • Miller: “He’s gone full nativist. He’s threatening to fight people … and he’s one of the Bobsy twins. TBD on what that means.” [43:20]

7. Looming Government Shutdown: Strategy for Democrats

[44:56 – 51:23]

• Ezra Klein’s argument: Funding the Trump government is complicity in authoritarianism, but Democrats lack meaningful leverage while out of power.
• Miller and Kristol debate whether to force a shutdown or use the moment to extract real concessions (e.g., on healthcare, vaccine policy, Medicaid).
  • Both agree: Democrats need clear, popular demands to effectively contest the narrative.
  • Kristol is wary of optics since Democrats would be blocking with fewer than 50 Senate votes but says, “maybe Democrats are just obscene to let them goddamn do it.”
  • Miller: “I hope that there’s some smart strategic thinkers ... figuring out how to frame it up.”

8. Authoritarian Pettiness: Canceling Tom Hanks

[51:23 – 53:42]

• Trump administration cancels Tom Hanks’ Military Academy honor due to past criticism of Trump.
  • Miller calls it “very weak and pathetic.”
  • Kristol: “The pettiness of authoritarians … can sometimes do as much damage as the truly grotesque abuses.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Just the authoritarian project... is further along after seven and a half months than I think even you and I thought it would be…”
— Bill Kristol [02:36]

“…he’s giving the opposition a pretty easy and definable pushback on him, particularly the kind of anti war opposition that he brought into his coalition.”
— Tim Miller [30:59]

“Killing cartel members who poison our fellow citizens is the highest and best use of our military.”
— JD Vance (Vice President), [20:09], via X post

“The vice President responding, saying, I don’t give a shit if we’re doing war crimes. I guess they don’t. It says a lot, right?”
— Tim Miller [20:52] (on JD Vance’s social media)

“If he has another seven months like this, this nation is in deep, deep trouble.”
— Bill Kristol [02:55]

“It’s pure propaganda. It’s straight out of the ‘Haitians are eating your dogs’ book…”
— Tim Miller [22:41] (on Trump’s boat attack rhetoric)

“He’s gone full nativist. He’s Threatening to fight people at Georgetown clubs. And he’s one of the Bobsy twins. TBD on what that means.”
— Tim Miller [43:20]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:49] – [06:03]: Trump’s consolidation of power; lack of GOP dissent.
• [06:03] – [09:06]: Corporate and institutional elites’ passive response.
• [09:06] – [10:39]: Polls and the declining “strongly approve” Trump base.
• [12:28] – [24:26]: Venezuela boat attack, legal/moral ramifications, and government secrecy.
• [20:09], [20:52]: JD Vance’s inflammatory defense of military actions.
• [27:54] – [32:16]: “Department of War” rebrand; threats against Chicago; authoritarian symbolism.
• [34:08] – [41:57]: Rose Garden antics, Cabinet chaos, and infighting.
• [44:56] – [51:23]: Looming shutdown & Democratic strategy debate.
• [51:23] – [53:42]: Tom Hanks Military Academy award canceled for criticizing Trump.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a bracing assessment of the Trump administration’s acceleration of anti-democratic practices, the muted reaction of key power centers, and the dangers of normalization. Both host and guest urge vigilance, strategic opposition, and the need to spotlight both large-scale abuses and the insidious pettiness of authoritarian rule.

Tone: Urgent, unsparing, often satirical—anchored by deep concern for democratic norms but leavened with the podcast’s trademark wit and exasperated humor.