The Bulwark Podcast: Bill Kristol on Kleptocrats and Plutocrats
Release Date: March 3, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Crystal

Introduction

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller is joined by Bill Crystal to dissect a recent and highly contentious press conference involving former President Donald Trump, U.S. Senator JD Vance, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The discussion delves deep into the ramifications of Trump's administration's stance on Ukraine, Russia, and broader U.S. foreign and domestic policies. The episode also touches on emerging economic policies, including tariffs and a controversial proposal for a U.S. crypto reserve.

The Press Conference: Trump, JD Vance, and Zelensky

The centerpiece of the episode is the analysis of a press conference held between Donald Trump, JD Vance, and Volodymyr Zelensky. The interaction became infamous for its lack of diplomacy and decorum, with Senator Vance taking a stern stance against President Zelensky.

• JD Vance's Confrontation: Vance begins by challenging the effectiveness of Trump's diplomacy, questioning whether Trump had been "too nice to Putin" [[04:11] Tim Miller].

  JD Vance [02:18]: "What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about. What do you mean?"

• Trump's Defensive Stance: Trump responds by defending his diplomatic efforts, mentioning agreements signed with European leaders and criticizing Zelensky for not fulfilling his part.

  Donald Trump [03:22]: "What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about. What do you mean?"

The exchange quickly devolves into a public spat, with Trump and Vance berating Zelensky, leading to a tense and unproductive dialogue.

Analysis of the Diplomatic Clash

Bill Crystal interprets the press conference as a politically motivated setup aimed at undermining Zelensky and distancing the Republican Party from previous support for Ukraine.

• Political Motives: Crystal suggests that the confrontation was orchestrated to portray Zelensky as an "enemy of peace," thereby swaying Republican support.

  Bill Crystal [05:40]: "They wanted to do what Trump later says in the tweet, what does it portray Zelensky as an enemy of peace to damage support for Zelenskyy here at home..."

• Impact on Domestic Politics: The debacle is seen as Trump attempting to realign the Republican Party more closely with his agenda, even at the cost of international relations.

  Bill Crystal [06:12]: "This was for Trump's domestic politics here more than anything else."

European Reaction and Implications for NATO

The episode explores the fallout from the press conference, emphasizing the negative reactions from European leaders and the potential weakening of NATO's foundational principles.

• European Leaders' Response: European nations, particularly Germany, have expressed alarm over the U.S.'s apparent shift in foreign policy, fearing a move away from defending liberal democracy.

  Bill Crystal [19:52]: "The Europeans understood right away. Russia understood."

• NATO's Future: Concerns are raised about the future of NATO without the U.S. as its anchor, questioning whether European nations can sustain the alliance independently.

  Bill Crystal [21:21]: "It's a tall task... sustaining the world order without the US on side..."

Economic Policies: Tariffs and Trade Wars

Tim Miller and Bill Crystal discuss Trump's economic maneuvers, including the imposition of tariffs on Canada, Mexico, and China, and the potential repercussions of these policies.

• Tariffs on Neighboring Countries: Trump announced the imposition of tariffs on goods imported from Canada and Mexico, citing reasons like fentanyl trafficking and trade imbalances.

  Bill Crystal [30:26]: "The tariffs on Canada and Mexico... they're going to have real impact."

• Doubling Tariffs on China: The decision to escalate tariffs on China to 20% is critiqued as detrimental to the global economy and consumer prices.

• Potential Economic Downturn: Concerns are voiced about the weakening economy due to these tariffs, with fears that rising inflation and unemployment could push Trump towards more authoritarian measures.

Trump's Crypto Reserve Proposal

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting Trump's proposal for a U.S. crypto reserve, which aims to position cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum as national assets.

• Proposal Overview: Trump announced an executive order to establish a crypto strategic reserve, including major cryptocurrencies, to fortify the U.S. against future digital financial crises.

  Tim Miller [40:30]: "The theory of the case here is that cryptocurrencies are so valuable, this digital gold, so to speak..."

• Criticism and Concerns: Bill Crystal likens the proposal to absurd investments like "pet rocks" or "Beanie Babies," highlighting the speculative and risky nature of such a reserve.

  Bill Crystal [44:02]: "Someone said this would be illegal in every country in the world... stealing money from the taxpayer..."

• Potential for Corruption: The initiative is criticized for its potential to enrich Trump and his associates, with mentions of Howard Lutnick and David Sacks having vested interests in cryptocurrencies.

  Tim Miller [44:02]: "It's a preposterous scheme that is going to enrich Trump family."

Impact on U.S. Foreign Aid and Public Health

The discussion shifts to Trump's administration's handling of foreign aid and public health, emphasizing cuts and the repercussions of these policies.

• Cuts to Foreign Aid: Under Trump's directive, foreign aid programs have seen significant reductions, affecting critical areas like child nutrition and HIV/AIDS treatment in Africa.

  Bill Crystal [35:24]: "Now the guy that's blowing the whistle on it, instead of them backing off more and trying to put in place the waivers that Rubio wanted, the guy's getting put on administrative leave."

• Public Health Concerns: Actions such as placing key public health officials on administrative leave are highlighted as detrimental to global health initiatives.

  Tim Miller [35:22]: "These cuts are going to have massive ramifications for children, malnourished children, pregnant women..."

Authoritarian Tendencies and Corruption

Bill Crystal and Tim Miller explore the broader theme of authoritarianism within the Trump administration, drawing parallels to historical kleptocratic and plutocratic practices.

• Erosion of Democratic Norms: The episode underscores how Trump's actions signify a departure from democratic principles, reflecting traits common in kleptocratic regimes.

  Bill Crystal [34:50]: "This is the full flowering, I'd say, of not just the abandonment of Zelenskyy, but the embrace of Putin."

• Corruption Risks: The proposal for a crypto reserve is portrayed as a step towards massive corruption, likening it to the Teapot Dome scandal but on a much grander scale.

  Tim Miller [40:30]: "It's truly astonishing... essentially nothing so that a bunch of people can make a lot of money."

Conclusions and Future Outlook

In wrapping up, Tim Miller and Bill Crystal express deep concerns about the trajectory of U.S. policies under Trump's administration, particularly regarding international alliances, economic stability, and corruption.

• Sustained Challenges: They worry about the long-term effects of these policies, including potential political isolation, weakened alliances, and economic instability.

  Bill Crystal [25:29]: "What is NATO anymore?... the post war structure is at risk."

• Potential Political Repercussions: The possibility of Trump facing significant political fallout due to these actions is discussed, though they acknowledge the immediate impact on both domestic and international fronts.

  Tim Miller [31:00]: "I think that the worse things get, the more unhinged he would get and the more he would move towards even further down the authoritarian path."

• Final Thoughts: The episode concludes with a cautionary note about the ongoing war in Ukraine and the critical need for coherent and stable U.S. policies to support international allies.

Notable Quotes

• Volodymyr Zelensky on Diplomacy:

  Volodymyr Zelensky [02:18]: "I am talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country."

• JD Vance on U.S. Military Support:

  JD Vance [10:56]: "You're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing."

• Donald Trump on Ceasefire:

  Donald Trump [07:07]: "You will feel influenced."

• Bill Crystal on European Leaders:

  Bill Crystal [19:52]: "They do not want to betray Ukraine. And Zelensky is not going to give up and Ukraine's not going to give up."

• Tim Miller on Crypto Reserve Proposal:

  Tim Miller [40:30]: "It is an absurd proposition... It's like buying the US Government buying pet rocks or Beanie Babies."

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast provides a comprehensive and critical examination of the Trump administration's recent policies and actions, highlighting the potential dangers of authoritarianism, corruption, and reckless foreign and economic policies. Tim Miller and Bill Crystal offer insightful analysis, urging listeners to remain vigilant about the shifting dynamics within U.S. politics and their profound implications on both national and global scales.

The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.