The Bulwark Podcast: Episode Summary Title: Bill Kristol: People Should Be Mad
Release Date: June 10, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol, Editor at Large

Introduction

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a profound and urgent discussion with editor at large Bill Kristol. Their conversation delves deep into the escalating political tensions in the United States, focusing on President Trump's recent actions regarding the deployment of military forces and mass deportation efforts. Kristol emphasizes the severity of these developments, advocating for heightened public outrage and resistance.

Trump’s Proclamation and Military Deployment

Timestamp: [01:06]

Bill Kristol begins by analyzing President Trump's latest proclamation, which authorizes the deployment of the National Guard and active-duty military forces to Los Angeles amidst ongoing protests and violent acts.

• Key Points:
  • The proclamation is notably brief, comprising only three paragraphs without specifying locations, making it an open-ended authorization.
  • Kristol highlights the unprecedented nature of this move, comparing it to historical instances like the 1992 LA riots and the Civil Rights era.
  • He expresses concern over the potential for repeated use of military force to suppress domestic unrest, warning of a slippery slope toward authoritarianism.

Notable Quote:

“This is an open-ended authorization for the Secretary of Defense Pete Heseth to use the National Guard and active duty troops at any time, in any place when protests are happening.”
— Bill Kristol [01:45]

Mass Deportation and ICE Militarization

Timestamp: [08:35]

The conversation shifts to the Trump administration's aggressive immigration policies, specifically mass deportations targeting undocumented immigrants in blue states.

• Key Points:
  • Kristol criticizes ICE's tactics, describing instances where agents employed military-grade gear to arrest non-criminal undocumented individuals.
  • He draws parallels to historical authoritarian measures, stressing that these actions undermine the rule of law and erode trust in federal institutions.
  • The lack of strategic planning and consideration for the humanitarian impact of mass deportations is a significant concern.

Notable Quote:

“This is a proactive effort to go and sweep up people who are not doing anything illegally besides being present here.”
— Bill Kristol [16:22]

Implications for Democracy and Authoritarianism

Timestamp: [13:41]

Kristol delves into the broader implications of these policies on American democracy, cautioning against the normalization of military presence in civilian affairs.

• Key Points:
  • He warns that legitimizing the use of military force domestically creates a dangerous precedent for future authoritarian actions.
  • The erosion of democratic norms is accelerated by the demonization of specific communities and the leveraging of military power to enforce governmental authority.
  • Kristol underscores the importance of public pushback to prevent the consolidation of authoritarian power.

Notable Quote:

“Authoritarian movements have a tendency to demonize some subset of the population and legitimize the use of military force at home. Those are on every list of things to watch out for, and here they are happening in real time.”
— Bill Kristol [20:08]

Demonstrations and Public Response

Timestamp: [43:29]

The discussion moves to the upcoming "No Kings" protests and the anticipated military response, highlighting efforts to keep demonstrations peaceful.

• Key Points:
  • Kristol commends the organizers of "No Kings" for planning non-violent demonstrations, aiming to avoid giving President Trump any pretext for further military intervention.
  • He expresses hope that the protests will remain peaceful and that public sentiment will resist the administration's militarization efforts.
  • The importance of unified and strategic Democratic responses to counteract authoritarian tactics is emphasized.

Notable Quote:

“The left has, obviously, elements that are irresponsible. It's a huge country. How could it not? ... Military deployment across the country in real time does seem more urgent to make clear that this is part of a vision of America militarized and personalized under Trump's command, that we should reject.”
— Bill Kristol [43:56]

Democratic Leadership and Public Messaging

Timestamp: [46:59]

Kristol critiques the current state of Democratic leadership, advocating for more passionate and proactive engagement to counteract Republican authoritarianism.

• Key Points:
  • He expresses disappointment with Democratic leaders' lack of emotional and vocal resistance to Trump's policies.
  • The potential role of former President Obama and other influential Democrats in reigniting public outrage and activism is discussed.
  • Kristol calls for leaders who can inspire and mobilize the populace against the ongoing authoritarian measures.

Notable Quote:

“People should be pissed. There's a lot to be pissed about. ... I would like to see that from him [Obama] and from everyone, all Democratic leaders.”
— Tim Miller [48:04]
(Response by Kristol not directly quoted here)

Future Political Strategies

Timestamp: [49:57]

The conversation concludes with a look ahead to upcoming political battles, including the New Jersey governor's race and concerns about gerrymandering in Texas.

• Key Points:
  • Kristol endorses Governor Mikey Sherrill in New Jersey as a centrist and dynamic leader who could help stabilize the Democratic Party.
  • He warns of manipulated redistricting efforts by Republicans designed to preserve their majority in the House, further undermining fair democratic processes.
  • The necessity for Democrats to adopt strategic and proactive measures to protect and rebuild democratic institutions is highlighted.

Notable Quote:

“If we could get Governor Sherrill in New Jersey and Governor Spamberger in Virginia beginning on January 1, 2026, I'd feel better about the future of the Democratic Party.”
— Bill Kristol [50:45]

Conclusion

The episode underscores the critical moment facing American democracy, with Bill Kristol urging listeners to recognize and resist emerging authoritarian tendencies. Emphasizing the need for active public engagement and strong Democratic leadership, Kristol advocates for unity and strategic action to uphold democratic values and prevent the erosion of civil liberties.

Notable Final Quote:

“People should be pissed. There's a lot to be pissed about. ... This is my critique of a lot of Democratic leaders right now and of course of the Bushes and Republicans and all that.”
— Tim Miller [48:04]

Key Takeaways

• Authorization of Military Force: Trump's open-ended proclamation for deploying the National Guard and active-duty troops poses a significant threat to democratic norms.
• Mass Deportation Concerns: Aggressive ICE tactics targeting non-criminal undocumented immigrants in blue states reflect authoritarian impulses.
• Democratic Response Needed: Strong, passionate leadership and public outrage are essential to counteract these authoritarian measures.
• Future Political Landscapes: Upcoming elections and redistricting battles will play a pivotal role in shaping the balance of power and protecting democratic institutions.

Note: This summary excludes all advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions between Tim Miller and Bill Kristol.