The Bulwark Podcast: Bill Kristol on Resisting Nihilism

Episode: Bill Kristol: Resist the Nihilism
Release Date: January 20, 2025
Hosts: Tim Miller and Bill Kristol

Introduction and Personal Reflections

The episode opens with Tim Miller expressing his reluctance about the second Trump inauguration but emphasizes the necessity of addressing current political realities. He welcomes Bill Kristol, a prominent conservative commentator and co-founder of The Bulwark, to discuss pressing political issues of the day.

Tim Miller [00:00]:
"Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller...we’re destined to be here right now. Might as well slog through it together."

Bill Kristol [00:54]:
"I tried to cheer myself up this morning by writing a little morning shots about how we shouldn't be intimidated by all this bluster and executive orders..."

The Trump Coin Scandal

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the controversial Trump Coin, a cryptocurrency launched by former President Donald Trump. Tim Miller labels it as "the biggest scam in the history of the presidency," highlighting its volatile nature and potential for massive financial loss among investors.

Tim Miller [02:00]:
"But this one, this is an actual investment vehicle. People put real money into this...The coin went from $44 to 60 something, back down to 44. So if you had bought at 60 and then panicked and sold real, people could have lost thousands, tens of thousands of dollars."

Bill Kristol [04:53]:
"The degree of grift, the billions apparently, that he stands to make, the degree to which people could just buy favor by letting them know they're investing in something that basically flows right to his bottom..."

The duo compares the Trump Coin scandal to historical political corruption, referencing the Teapot Dome scandal to illustrate the unprecedented scale of deceit involved.

Cultural Nihilism and Political Despair

Tim Miller delves into the pervasive sense of nihilism permeating the current political climate, questioning the very foundation of democratic institutions and the rule of law. He references Ben Domenech's 2016 commentary on Republican apocalyptic predictions to underscore the depth of the crisis.

Tim Miller [07:10]:
"There's a guy, Ben Domenech... he wrote something in 2016 that was about, lol, nothing matters... Trump’s now won twice... It brought to mind... people have this sense of, none of this matters, why should I be concerned?"

Bill Kristol [08:21]:
"I do think that it's bad for the country, obviously, and the culture... but Biden's pardon of Hunter, the kind of ramshackle way the pardons were done this morning..."

Bill Kristol concurs, emphasizing the corrosive effects of nihilism on both culture and governance. He critiques both Trump’s influence in fostering this mindset and the Biden administration's actions that exacerbate political instability.

Biden’s Preemptive Pardons

The conversation shifts to President Biden's issuance of preemptive pardons for individuals associated with the January 6 Committee and others. Both hosts express skepticism about the implications of these pardons on the rule of law and accountability.

Tim Miller [19:15]:
"Initially I was for this. After the election... However, tacitly, it kind of is. And in addition, you know, there is the precedent... Maybe there's still hope that there's still a rule of law in this country in 2029."

Bill Kristol [21:10]:
"I’m skeptical at least of it. And more or less opposed... It was explained to them exactly what they're supposed to do... So I’m disappointed in the pardons."

Kristol criticizes the haphazard manner in which the pardons were granted, suggesting they undermine legal accountability and could be exploited by Trump supporters to justify further misconduct.

Executive Orders and Governance Concerns

Tim Miller and Bill Kristol discuss the surge in executive orders by recent administrations, particularly focusing on Trump's aggressive use of executive power. They express concern over the long-term implications for democratic governance and the balance of power.

Tim Miller [33:06]:
"Normally we’re not gonna discuss these outages other than the ones that Trump is doing right now and his war on content production..."

Bill Kristol [34:50]:
"He’s doing it all with such shock and awe... Immigration strikes me he's claiming he's going to solve this problem... It’s not clear how much it's a problem as opposed to a good thing..."

The hosts debate the effectiveness and potential fallout of Trump's executive orders on issues like immigration and DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) programs, questioning the sustainability and legal foundation of such unilateral actions.

Inauguration Day Events and Symbolism

As the inauguration day unfolds, Tim Miller shares humorous and critical takes on the ceremonial aspects, such as President Biden's tea and coffee reception juxtaposed with Trump's pre-inauguration rallies.

Bill Kristol [37:44]:
"This was a Bible towards Washington news... Trump can’t very well do a peaceful transfer of power rhapsody, can he?"

Tim Miller [38:40]:
"It’s turtles all the way down, Bill. It’s grift all the way down... there are only going to be 5,000 of these... So get them while they’re hot."

A notable moment includes Lee Greenwood's promotion of a limited edition "God Bless the USA" Bible for Trump's inauguration, which Tim Miller mocks as another layer of political grift.

Closing Thoughts and Future Outlook

In their closing remarks, both hosts reflect on the emotional toll of the current political environment, emphasizing resilience against rising nihilism. They underscore the importance of maintaining democratic principles and encourage continued vigilance against authoritarian tendencies.

Bill Kristol [38:40]:
"They really are respected people... And that’s all out the wind. And I think it's corrosive...it does fit into the kind of nihilism. But is it sustainable to vote? Is that what people don’t want?"

Tim Miller [41:13]:
"I received a text from a friend that said Trump getting inaugurated on MLK Day, we are a failure. I can’t really do much better than that."

The episode concludes with an invitation to listeners to join post-inauguration discussions on various platforms, reinforcing the podcast’s commitment to providing insightful analysis amidst turbulent political times.

Notable Quotes

• Tim Miller [02:00]:
  "This is different than he does the thing where it's like, get the Trump digital baseball card or get the Trump mug or the Trump shoes, and those are all scams."

• Bill Kristol [12:13]:
  "You should respect people who are making $50,000 a year working as nurses and people who are making $140,000 a year working as higher ranks of government."

• Tim Miller [16:40]:
  "Nobody knows. We don’t have a crystal ball. And nobody asked, you know, Navalny, every time he said something that Putin did, something was wrong."

• Bill Kristol [26:34]:
  "There’s no pretense of any of that now. I mean, it’s all just grift, 100% all grift all the time."

Conclusion

In this episode, Tim Miller and Bill Kristol navigate the complexities of a politically charged inauguration day, dissecting the emergent threats to democratic norms, the rise of political nihilism, and the implications of unprecedented political maneuvers by both Trump and Biden administrations. Their discourse underscores a pressing need for vigilance, integrity, and proactive resistance against the corrosive elements threatening liberal democracy.