The Bulwark Podcast: Bill Kristol - Taking A Wrecking Ball to the Government
Release Date: February 17, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol

Introduction and Name Changes

The episode begins with Tim Miller welcoming Bill Kristol to discuss current political upheavals. A significant opening topic is the decision to revert the observance from President's Day back to Washington's Birthday, highlighting the tension within conservative circles regarding the recognition of all U.S. presidents equally.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [02:10]: "Insofar as it sort of implies that we equally respect all presidents, it's very bad."

Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency

Kristol delves into Elon Musk's establishment of the "Department of Government Efficiency," asserting that Musk’s true intention is not mere efficiency but to dismantle existing government structures to pave the way for more autocratic leadership akin to Trump's style.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [03:11]: "The point isn't government efficiency. The point is to wreck the government and make it more susceptible to Trump's personalized leadership and really to autocracy."

IRS Access to Tax Returns

A pressing issue discussed is the IRS's recent attempt, spearheaded by Musk (referred to as "Doge"), to gain access to sensitive tax returns, including those of Trump and himself. Kristol views this as a strategic move to expose and possibly manipulate tax data for political or personal gain.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [04:23]: "Doge needs to get in there, I don't know why. And look at them, I guess, and have access to them."

National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) Layoffs

The podcast highlights controversial layoffs within the NNSA, where up to 350 employees were terminated abruptly. Kristol criticizes the administration's handling, emphasizing the critical nature of roles like warhead reassembly and labeling the actions as a "wrecking ball" approach to federal agencies.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [06:03]: "It's such a wrecking ball. It's so unserious about any of the things government does."

FAA and Veterans Crisis Hotline Cuts

Miller and Kristol explore recent cuts to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the Veterans Crisis Hotline. The FAA has seen multiple probationary employees fired amid recent plane crashes, raising concerns about air travel safety. Similarly, the abrupt termination of crisis hotline employees undermines support for veterans, intensifying the administration's disregard for essential services.

Notable Quote:

• Tim Miller [07:30]: "This one caught my eye over the weekend. Veterans Crisis Hotline employees...are valued yet getting terminated without warning."

Democratic Response and Oversight

The conversation shifts to the Democratic Party's strategy in addressing these government dismantling efforts. Kristol criticizes Democrats for focusing on upcoming budget battles rather than actively opposing the administration's destructive policies. He urges Democratic leaders to vocally condemn the erosion of government institutions.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [08:06]: "Maybe the ranking Democrat on that committee should be just screaming and yelling on every platform he can get onto."

Republican Inaction and Congressional Oversight

Kristol laments the Republican-controlled Congress's passive stance in mitigating Trump and Musk's aggressive policies. He points out the lack of effective oversight, urging Republican senators to leverage their appropriations power to protect federal agencies from unwarranted dismantling.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [15:26]: "The Congress is controlled by Republicans, which is a huge problem... the ranking Democrat should be just screaming and yelling at the Republican members."

DOJ Resignations and Internal Criticism

The episode highlights recent resignations within the Department of Justice (DOJ), notably from officials like Hagan Scott, who publicly denounce the administration's coercive tactics. These resignations underscore internal resistance against the administration's attempts to manipulate legal systems for political ends.

Notable Quote:

• Hagan Scott [20:01]: "Our laws and traditions do not allow using the prosecution executorial power to influence other citizens...it was never going to be me."

Foreign Policy Challenges

Kristol discusses the deteriorating U.S. role in global affairs, particularly concerning Russia and Saudi Arabia's negotiations to end the war in Ukraine without Ukraine's involvement. He expresses concern over the diminishing international influence of the U.S., exacerbated by inconsistent foreign policy stances.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [26:01]: "The US ... is no longer really too focused on Europe... We have to ask the question, is the U.S. now part of the solution or part of the problem?"

Elon Musk's International Engagements

The podcast touches upon Elon Musk's low-profile international meetings, such as his encounter with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Kristol criticizes the informal nature of these meetings, suggesting they undermine formal diplomatic protocols and contribute to the erosion of U.S. diplomatic integrity.

Notable Quote:

• Tim Miller [31:31]: "On the Modi side of the table, there's all of his advisors. And on the Musk side, it's like a couple of his children and that's it."

Trump's Autocratic Rhetoric

A critical segment addresses Donald Trump's increasingly autocratic rhetoric, likening his statements to those of historical autocrats like Napoleon. Kristol warns that such language signifies a dangerous shift away from democratic principles towards dictatorship.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [33:35]: "The idea that an American president would ... be just taunting us ... is still awful, of course."

Conclusion and Call to Action

Kristol emphasizes the importance of active opposition against the administration's attempts to undermine democratic institutions. He advocates for widespread dissent and vocal condemnation to preserve the integrity of U.S. governance and societal values.

Notable Quote:

• Bill Kristol [36:26]: "People do need to take the threat seriously and be serious about their opposition."

Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with a stark portrayal of the current political climate, underscoring the urgency for bipartisan action to prevent the disintegration of foundational government institutions. Tim Miller and Bill Kristol leave listeners with a compelling call to defend democratic norms and resist authoritarian tendencies.

Key Takeaways:

• Government Overreach: Elon Musk's initiatives are perceived as strategies to dismantle federal structures, paving the way for more autocratic rule.
• Institutional Erosion: Recent layoffs and policy changes within critical agencies like the IRS, NNSA, FAA, and Veterans Crisis Hotline signify a deliberate weakening of governmental efficacy.
• Political Inaction: Both Republican inaction and Democratic passivity contribute to the unchecked dismantling of government institutions.
• International Decline: The U.S.'s wavering role on the global stage, coupled with inconsistent foreign policies, threatens long-standing international alliances and stability.
• Urgent Opposition Needed: There is a pressing need for unified and vocal resistance against policies that undermine democracy and freedom.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Bill Kristol [02:10]: "Insofar as it sort of implies that we equally respect all presidents, it's very bad."
• Bill Kristol [03:11]: "The point isn't government efficiency. The point is to wreck the government..."
• Bill Kristol [04:23]: "Doge needs to get in there, I don't know why."
• Bill Kristol [06:03]: "It's such a wrecking ball."
• Tim Miller [07:30]: "Veterans Crisis Hotline employees...are valued yet getting terminated without warning."
• Bill Kristol [08:06]: "...just screaming and yelling on every platform he can get onto."
• Bill Kristol [15:26]: "Congress controlled by Republicans, which is a huge problem."
• Hagan Scott [20:01]: "It was never going to be me."
• Bill Kristol [26:01]: "Is the U.S. now part of the solution or part of the problem?"
• Bill Kristol [33:35]: "The idea that an American president would ... be just taunting us ... is still awful."
• Bill Kristol [36:26]: "People need to take the threat seriously and be serious about their opposition."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions between Tim Miller and Bill Kristol, offering listeners a thorough understanding of the episode's key themes and insights.