The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Bill Kristol: The MAGA Elites Are Such Frauds
Date: February 2, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol

Episode Overview

This episode, recorded on Groundhog Day 2026, features Tim Miller and Bill Kristol delving into a turbulent week in American politics. They explore failures in governmental crisis response, disturbing updates on federal law enforcement abuses, political fallout from special elections, elite moral rot exemplified by Epstein disclosures, Trump’s deepening corruption, and the performative fraudulence of the MAGA “populist” movement. Despite the heavy news, Tim and Bill close with lighter takes on the arts, the Super Bowl, and moments of hope and resilience.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Governmental Abdication in Crisis Response

• 00:11 Tim opens by criticizing the administration for inaction amidst severe winter storms. He contrasts the absence of federal energy support or National Guard deployments with prior administrations’ disaster responses.

  • Quote: “In a normal administration, you would see DHS and FEMA and the President and Vice President... surging toward places where there have been weather related deaths... they don't even talk about.” (Tim, 01:15)

• 00:50 Bill points out school shutdowns due to weather, questioning whether localities are equipped for such emergencies, but joins Tim in noting the broader federal failure to act:

  • Quote: “The administration... they're busy, they're arresting the worst of the worst, Tim, and deporting him to El Salvador and stuff. It's really making us safer as a country and better off, I think." (Bill, 01:32)

2. Misconduct and Dangers of ICE & Border Patrol

• 2:00 Tim highlights new revelations about Border Patrol agents (Ochoa and Gutierrez) involved in a deadly shooting; Bill unpacks why these agencies are structurally problematic and poorly suited for domestic policing.

  • Quote: “Border Patrol really turns out to be a... problematic agency. Maybe you have to be problematic if you’re roaming the border... But they were never meant to be deployed into cities.” (Bill, 02:45)

• The “momentum” of ICE and Border Patrol: Both agree the agencies have evolved into aggressive, poorly-restrained paramilitary forces.

  • Quote: “These agencies have a momentum of their own now.” (Bill, 04:38)

• 05:25 Bill notes the disturbing pattern of agents escalating situations, particularly the penchant for “breaking glass,” as a symbol of disregard for legal rights.

  • Quote: “They love breaking windows... in cars, in houses... That has not historically been a good predictor of lawful and respectful behavior.” (Bill, 05:25)

• The hosts argue that increasing funding for these agencies without reform or restrictions is misguided and dangerous, especially as appropriations debates loom.

  • Quote: “If they still have this level of funding that's greater than the U.S. Marine Corps, this stuff is going to continue to happen.” (Tim, 06:09)

3. Political Fallout, Voter Activism & Special Elections

• 12:10 Tim shifts focus to electoral developments: Taylor Remitt, a Democrat, triumphs in a Texas State Senate special election in a deeply red seat, signaling voter backlash against Trumpism even in unlikely districts.

  • Quote: “Tarrant County, Texas, is not exactly a hotbed of liberal thought. And for him to win that seat, it’s pretty meaningful, I think.” (Tim, 12:10)

• 13:00-16:54 Bill provides deeper context—big swings, not just turnout, but actual voter preferences shifting, and how these portend risk for further GOP losses in 2026.

  • Quote: “It does seem to have been de facto referendum on Trump, Trumpism and the Republican Party.” (Bill, 13:37)

• Both stress the difference it would make to win both House and Senate, highlighting suburban voter movement and expanding battlegrounds.

  • Quote: “Anything close to this degree of movement... you put a lot of Senate seats in play. Winning the Senate as well as the House would be so much bigger...” (Bill, 16:54)

4. Epstein Disclosures, Elite Corruption, and Unaddressed Crimes

• 19:30 Tim and Bill process the grossness of the recently released Epstein emails, noting both the tawdriness of so many elites seeking his favor and the continued lack of real legal accountability.

  • Quote: “People are so desperate to hang out with other rich and famous people... they don’t use any judgment or moral rectitude at all.” (Tim, 20:20)

• 22:02 Bill channels disgust at the administration's deliberate obfuscation and failure to cooperate with survivors or provide transparency.

  • Quote: “They have purposely gone out of their way to not really comply, but sort of comply with the law in the most unhelpful way possible.” (Bill, 22:11)

• The conversation turns to Steve Bannon’s fawning “media training” interview with Epstein as revealing the hypocrisy of the MAGA elite: their sham populism and deep entanglement with corrupt interests.

  • Quote: “Any potential notion that the MAGA guys were not just totally mobbed up with him and are totally interested in protecting him... is completely revealed to be false by this.” (Tim, 24:13)

5. The Fraudulence of MAGA and "Populist" Elites

• 25:57 The central thesis emerges: MAGA’s elite class are not anti-elite populists, but hypocritical frauds intent on protecting their own status and wealth.

  • Quote: “Good faith nationalist populism has never been tried. It's like the communism thing... there're some good communists just waiting around the corner... supposedly there are good faith nationalist populists... turns out to be frauds.” (Tim, 25:57)

• 28:24 The figure of J.D. Vance is dissected as a prime example—initially hailed for concern for working class Americans, now wholly subsumed by elitist ambition and culture crusades.

  • Quote: “Vance literally becomes well known by writing a book called Hillbilly Elegy, and now there’s not a trace of it left, really.” (Bill, 28:24)

6. National Security Corruption: Trump & Foreign Money

• 31:59 Tim brings up blockbuster reporting: Trump’s company secretly sold a 49% stake to a UAE spy-chief, with subsequent AI chip deals benefiting UAE and China.

  • Quote: “The sitting President of the United States sold a secret stake in his company to a United Arab Emirates spy... now we’re doing... deals that matter to our national security.” (Tim, 33:04)

• 36:00 Both reflect on the hypocrisy and the muted response from Republican foreign policy “hawks.”

  • Quote: “Can you imagine the Tom Cotton press release if Hunter Biden did a $500 million investment with the UAE and we sold them AI chips that also went to China?” (Tim, 33:53)

7. Cultural Decay, Vanity, and the Trumpified Arts

• 37:25 The “Trump Kennedy Center” fiasco: The attempt to rebrand the Kennedy Center, a monument to JFK, as a Trump project has resulted in its effective shuttering for two years due to lack of public interest.

  • Quote: “It is somehow indicative of just the utter disregard he has for anything beyond his own personal vanity and well being.” (Bill, 41:45)

• Tim and Bill see in this another emblem of Trump’s pattern: putting his name on institutions and running them into the ground.

8. Bad Bunny, Grammys, and Moments of Resistance

• 45:43 Tim and Bill end on a hopeful cultural note—citing Bad Bunny’s fiery, pro-immigrant Grammy speech as a model of forthright moral clarity.

  • Quote: “We’re not savage, we’re not animals, we’re not aliens, we are humans and we are Americans.” (Bad Bunny, 46:31, quoted by Bill)

• They underline the importance of public figures speaking out, even under political threat, and urge more in the business, entertainment, and political worlds to show courage.

  • Quote: “One of the biggest excuses people use not to speak out... Well, they’ll discount it, it won’t matter... But you know what? Conservatives aren’t going to speak out if liberals don’t speak out.” (Bill, 49:02)

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• "The cruelty is the point in some respects." (Bill, 08:32)
• "It’s pretty crazy... the number of people who were basically like... See, it’s Ochoa and Gutierrez. That’s pretty bleak..." (Tim, 08:32)
• "They have been amazingly unconcerned about this [ICE abuses], these sort of high toned intellectuals. Civility is very important to them... and here we have..." (Bill, 09:10)
• "This is a fraud, such a con." (Bill, 29:05, on the MAGA populist movement)
• "It’s just un-American. It’s just not what any other president has done... Nobody else has done this, for good reason, because it’s vulgar and gross." (Tim, 41:45)
• "We’re not savage, we’re not animals, we’re not aliens, we are humans and we are Americans." (Bad Bunny, 46:31, as quoted by Bill)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:11 – 02:00: Winter storms and federal inaction
• 02:45 – 08:32: Border Patrol & ICE misconduct, funding debate
• 12:10 – 16:54: Texas special election shock
• 19:30 – 25:26: Epstein emails and elite corruption
• 25:57 – 29:05: MAGA elitism and J.D. Vance critique
• 31:59 – 37:25: Trump-UAE scandal and contrast with prior corruption narratives
• 37:25 – 41:45: Trump Kennedy Center fiasco
• 45:43 – end: Bad Bunny's Grammy speech & the importance of courageous voices

Tone & Style

Throughout, Tim and Bill employ their characteristic blend of dry, sometimes sardonic humor (“The cruelty is the point,” “good communists just waiting around the corner”) and urgent, reality-based commentary. They are bluntly critical, especially of MAGA elites and the corrosion of democratic norms, but also keen to highlight flashes of hope—whether in special elections or the cultural arena.

Takeaways

• ICE and Border Patrol have become unaccountable, dangerous agencies with political potential to destabilize elections.
• The MAGA leadership’s “populism” is performative; in reality, they are as elitist and corrupt, if not more so, than those they decry.
• Trump’s business entanglements and influence peddling outstrip scandals of previous administrations, with barely a murmur from supposed national security hawks.
• Electoral and cultural resistance, whether via Texas special elections or Bad Bunny’s Grammy speech, offer hope—and underscore the importance of everyone, especially elites, speaking out.

For More

• Check the Bulwark newsletter for deeper dives and ongoing analysis, including Andrew Egger's referenced "Warning Shots."
• Upcoming live tapings in Texas announced for March 18 (Dallas) and March 19 (Austin).
• Look for ongoing coverage of the Epstein documents and the Tulsi whistleblower complaint as news develops.