The Bulwark Podcast: Episode featuring Bill Kristol on "The Preposterous and Ridiculous Lies About the FBI"

Release Date: January 6, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol

Overview

In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a deep and insightful conversation with political commentator Bill Kristol. The discussion centers around the four-year anniversary of the January 6th insurrection, examining the enduring legacy of its participants, the evolving narrative surrounding the event, and the alarming developments within federal institutions under the imminent Trump administration.

Anniversary Reflections and Legacy of January 6th

Tim Miller opens the episode by highlighting the significance of the January 6th anniversary, emphasizing the persistent relevance of the insurrection in American political discourse. He references Mitt Romney's condemnation of the event from four years prior, setting the stage for a discussion on how contemporary supporters of Donald Trump may be grappling with their role in undermining democratic principles.

Notable Quote:

"That was Mitt Romney four years ago today. It certainly raises some questions about how the participants of that insurrection will now be remembered."
— Tim Miller [03:40]

Bill Kristol concurs, expressing hope that the true legacy of the insurrection will be recognized in the long term, beyond immediate political narratives.

Notable Quote:

"You know, I hope it's their Legacy on the eight year anniversary or 9th or 10th or 11th."
— Bill Kristol [03:59]

Trump Administration's Impact on Federal Institutions

A significant portion of the discussion delves into the anticipated actions of Donald Trump’s incoming administration, particularly focusing on the Justice Department and the FBI. Kristol voices deep concerns about the potential pardoning of individuals involved in the January 6th events, including prominent figures like Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney, whom he suggests will be prosecuted for their opposition to the insurrection.

Notable Quote:

"Trump is going to pardon a lot of the January 6th rioters."
— Bill Kristol [04:31]

Tim Miller expands on this by referencing a Bloomberg report predicting Trump’s clemency for over 1,000 individuals linked to January 6th, highlighting the stark contrast between earlier calls for punitive measures and the forthcoming pardons.

Notable Quote:

"Going from shoot the protesters to clemency for the 1,000 people involved is a pretty dramatic switch."
— Tim Miller [09:13]

Nomination of Cash Patel as FBI Director

The conversation shifts to the controversial nomination of Cash Patel as the next FBI Director. Kristol critiques Patel’s propagation of unfounded conspiracy theories, particularly alleging that the FBI was complicit in orchestrating the January 6th attack—a claim he dismantles as "preposterous."

Notable Quote:

"How do we have eight people there...[referring to conspiracies]? Refuse to answer questions about it."
— Bill Kristol [16:39]

Tim Miller challenges Patel's claims, questioning the feasibility and plausibility of the FBI being aware of and planning the insurrection in advance, thereby exposing the absurdity of such allegations.

Notable Quote:

"Does the FBI have people from the future that flew back to let them know that there was going to be a large stop the steal effort?"
— Tim Miller [16:55]

Kristol further discusses the implications of Patel’s nomination, expressing skepticism about his suitability for leading the FBI and predicting potential internal purges aimed at aligning the agency with Trump’s directives.

Notable Quote:

"It's really worth looking at it and really worth then saying, okay, this is not a case of a guy who wasn’t really involved but was on some show and didn’t quarrel when some host said something."
— Bill Kristol [19:06]

Decline of Major Journalism Outlets

Tim Miller and Kristol express concern over the diminishing influence of established journalism institutions like The Washington Post. They discuss the recent exodus of prominent journalists to other media platforms, attributing this to a combination of political pressures and shifts in the media landscape under the Trump administration.

Notable Quote:

"And I think it's bad for this to be happening at the same time of Trump taking over with a genuine authoritarian playbook."
— Bill Kristol [36:40]

Miller underscores the importance of investigative journalism in maintaining governmental accountability, lamenting the concurrent decline of The Post as Trump’s administration gears up to potentially diminish robust media scrutiny.

Notable Quote:

"The Post now has one reporter assigned to nine domestic Policy agencies, not two, you know."
— Bill Kristol [36:25]

Internal Resignations within the Justice Department

Kristol highlights recent high-level resignations within the Justice Department, viewing them as indicative of the broader dismantling of institutional integrity under Trump's leadership. He points to the resignations of respected figures like Jay Brott, emphasizing the erosion of professional standards and the impending Schedule F reforms aimed at politicizing federal roles.

Notable Quote:

"And this could be especially true in key agencies. That's what's so worrisome about Patel and about the Justice Department stuff."
— Bill Kristol [26:36]

Miller connects these developments to the inadequacies of the current media infrastructure in supporting independent watchdog functions, suggesting that the lack of robust investigative reporting will exacerbate the administration's potential overreach.

Cultural and Symbolic Conflicts

The episode touches on symbolic gestures such as flag etiquette following Jimmy Carter’s death, critiquing Donald Trump’s disdain for traditional norms and the extended implications of such disrespect on national unity and institutional respect.

Notable Quote:

"Republican House has done that, has not done that... somebody, they actually, someone, they actually looked at what some of these people did."
— Bill Kristol [12:02]

Kristol and Miller discuss the broader implications of these symbolic conflicts, indicating how they reflect deeper divisions and the undermining of democratic respect and traditions.

Closing Reflections and Personal Tributes

Towards the episode's conclusion, Tim Miller pays tribute to AB Stoddard, a dedicated member of The Bulwark family who is stepping back from the podcasting responsibilities. Both host and guest reflect on her contributions and the personal bonds formed through their shared commitment to combating authoritarianism and defending democratic values.

Notable Quote:

"She's really a terrific person and I also look forward to seeing her around socially."
— Bill Kristol [48:40]

Kristol adds a personal touch, acknowledging AB’s courage and her alignment with the podcast's mission in resisting the rise of authoritarian tendencies within American politics.

Conclusion

The Bulwark Podcast episode featuring Bill Kristol offers a profound exploration of the ongoing challenges to American democracy, particularly in light of the upcoming Trump administration. Through meticulous analysis and pointed commentary, Miller and Kristol dissect the potential ramifications of political maneuvers, institutional erosion, and the critical role of media and journalistic integrity in safeguarding democratic principles. The discussion serves as a clarion call for vigilance and proactive defense of liberal democracy against authoritarian backsliding.

Disclaimer: This summary is based on a transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and themes of the podcast episode. For a more comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.