The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Bill Kristol: This Is Not Democratic Government
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol (Bulwark Editor at Large)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller and Bill Kristol deliver a wide-ranging, candid analysis of the week’s major political news—the reality of escalating immigration crackdowns, the Trump administration’s controversial farmer bailout, public pushback to federal actions, intrigue within the DHS, foreign policy stumbles, and evolving electoral dynamics. Their discussion blends sharp skepticism with concern for liberal democracy, examining where democratic norms are being eroded and how political actors are adapting. Expect pointed critiques, frank political talk, and a few lighthearted jabs, all in the signature tone of The Bulwark Podcast.

1. Immigration Crackdown & Community Response

[01:12–15:33]

Key Themes & Points

New Orleans Becomes a Federal Target:
Tim recounts how New Orleans has unexpectedly become a focal point for ICE and Border Patrol operations, with federal agents—often masked—detaining and menacing locals based largely on racial profiling rather than actionable intelligence.
- "They're masked guys. They're going out and menacing people, just solely based on racial profiling." —Tim Miller [06:15]
Questionable Justifications for Federal Action:
Bill and Tim dissect the administration’s shifting rationales (from “violent criminals” to “job displacement”), highlighting their dubious logic and the reality that labor shortages have worsened as workers, even those legally present, fear harassment.
On-the-ground Impact:
- Citizens and legal immigrants from mixed-status families are being harassed or avoiding work due to fear.
- Small businesses—often owned by Americans, sometimes Trump voters—are unable to fill jobs.
Public & Civic Pushback:
- Grassroots resistance, like whistle-wielding protesters and “know your rights” workshops, is gaining traction.
- "The public...gets credit for this. They have been very...impressed by this regular...the number of volunteers...really been impressive. And I do think it's, in a way a civic reaction against what's happening as much as a political one." —Bill Kristol [11:17]
Federal Militarization & Lack of Accountability:
- Resurrection of masked federal agents draws comparisons to authoritarian states, even as courts have enabled these tactics.
- "It's so un-American. It's so creepy, and people really don't like it, I think. And all the gear and the kit and the whole, you know, military aspect of it here." —Bill Kristol [08:21]
Dysfunction at DHS & Leadership Scuttlebutt:
Reports swirl that Secretary Noem may be on the way out, exposing the inner turmoil and lack of coherent strategy.

Notable Segment

[05:25] Tim describes a video of a Filipino American, a citizen, being harassed for papers—underscoring the climate of fear and racial profiling in New Orleans.
[09:43] Tim notes a viral video where a masked agent's presence is so intimidating a young woman thinks she’s being kidnapped.

2. Trump’s Farmer Bailout and Economic Policy Hypocrisy

[17:24–24:29]

Key Themes & Points

Announcement of $12 Billion Farmer Bailout:
Trump administration to provide one-time, direct cash payments to select farmers hit by the impact of tariffs—juxtaposed with slashed social programs and lack of help for lower-income Americans.
- "These fucking welfare queens. Have some dignity. The farmers showing up to the White House to take yet another welfare check from the President." —Tim Miller [17:24]
- "Farmers are hurting because of Trump's tariffs...it would be worth someone doing a little reporting on who exactly these people at the White House are what their total income and net worth is..." —Bill Kristol [19:03]
Double Standard and Political Quid Pro Quo:
Recipients of farm subsidies are often expected to praise Trump at White House events, while those in need of health care or food assistance go unsupported.
- "You would think that people like the old conservative tradition of appreciating hard work, that you would...rather just do the farming and sell my products to our customers overseas rather than you screwing us..." —Tim Miller [19:53]
Mockery of Administration’s Ethical Posturing:
The Treasury Secretary's dubious claim to be an “agricultural expert” is lampooned, with Tim fact-checking the assertion and finding it laughable.

Notable Segment

[21:13] Tim and Bill pick apart the Treasury Secretary’s claim of agricultural expertise and slow ethics compliance.
[23:08] Tim cross-checks the claim against historical Treasury Secretaries, finding former Secretary John Connolly was truly raised on a farm.

3. Health Care Subsidies & Political Leverage

[24:29–28:32]

Key Themes & Points

Enhanced Obamacare Subsidies & Political Opportunity:
Democrats push to extend enhanced health care subsidies, using Republican opposition—and the overt farmer bailout—as talking points against Trump’s first year.
- "They should spend all week screaming and yelling about it and then scream and yell when the Republicans stop people from getting the help they deserve. They can use Trump's farm subsidies..." —Bill Kristol [24:29]
Tariffs, Rising Health Costs & Missed Priorities:
The administration’s lack of a comprehensive health care plan, despite ample time and power, is contrasted with its aggressive action on tariffs and tax cuts for the wealthy.

4. Foreign Policy: Bombings, Oversight, and Disinformation

[29:55–39:25]

Key Themes & Points

Controversial Caribbean Strike:
Senate Intelligence Committee Vice Chair Mark Warner, after viewing video, is disturbed by both the administration’s conduct and lack of Congressional transparency.
- "He genuinely was appalled...also appalled by the changing stories of the administration. He didn't want to criticize the military directly, but I think he feels like they've been put in just an impossible position and haven't been candid from the beginning..." —Bill Kristol [30:38]
Secrecy and Democratic Norms:
Congress and even top intelligence officials denied full access to information, with shifting administration stories about strike legality and targets.
- "This is not democratic government. I mean, this is the President of the United States just doing things as he wishes and then not briefing...the United States Congress." —Bill Kristol [32:56]
National Security Strategy: China Neglect & “Culture War” Priority:
The Trump administration national security strategy is criticized for barely mentioning China—despite years of rhetoric—and instead fixating on “culture war” issues and hostility toward European liberalism.
- "They have this national security strategy...barely talks about China at all...When you kind of put it like that, it is pretty crazy." —Tim Miller [37:23]
- "Utterly unserious. And in fact, he's eager to cut deals with Xi and he's going to sell out Taiwan..." —Bill Kristol [38:08]

Notable Segment

[35:41] Bill outlines the absurdity of justifying drone strikes because “everyone killed was on a list”—raising legal and moral alarms.

5. The Texas Senate Race: Progressive Firebrands vs. Pragmatism

[40:39–47:57]

Key Themes & Points

Colin Allred’s Departure and Jasmine Crockett’s Entry:
Texas Senate primary turns toward younger, more progressive, social media-savvy candidates—Tim argues this may not be electorally smart for Democrats in red states.
Lessons from Candidate Selection:
Both hosts stress the risk of elevating partisan firebrands in tough states, pointing to recent evidence that moderate candidates often perform better.
- "Democrats...should be able to run different types of candidates in different places." —Tim Miller [44:54]
A Cautionary Comparison:
Democratic over-correction in response to Trump-era tactics may result in repeating the GOP’s own mistakes with unelectable, extreme Senate candidates.

Notable Segment

[46:10] Bill invokes Alyssa Slotkin’s victory in Michigan as supportive evidence for strategic moderation.

6. GOP Dynamics: Marjorie Taylor Greene, Cruz vs. MAGA, and the Future

[49:24–57:06]

Key Themes & Points

Marjorie Taylor Greene's Rhetorical Pivot:
MTG attacks Trump from an “America First” stance, distancing herself from MAGA and critiquing Trump for helping donors and establishment interests.
- "He passed a crypto bill that helped out all the crypto donors. He has served Israel's interest, even attacking Iran. He has served Big Pharma. He didn't take away the COVID vaccines that we want to see taken away." —Marjorie Taylor Greene (quoted by Tim Miller) [49:52]
- Bill and Tim agree it’s notable when accurate criticism comes from unlikely sources and suggest MTG's framing could resonate among parts of Trump's coalition.
America First vs. MAGA—A Fracturing Coalition:
Bill wonders about the future salience of “MAGA” as a slogan, given its increasingly mixed reputation even among Trump’s own base.
- "It was America First...has a certain resonance probably out there. MAGA has now accumulated so much stuff that I wonder...how that slogan is really faring politically." —Bill Kristol [53:08]
Ted Cruz’s Surprising Relevance:
Tim jokes about his brief, reluctant stint as a Cruz supporter in 2016 and notes Cruz’s recent aggressive critiques of obvious MAGA excesses, such as Tucker Carlson palling around in Qatar.
- "And I'm sorry to say Ted Cruz did a good tweet." —Tim Miller [54:45]
- "He does believe in certain things...he knows that some of these policies are very destructive..." —Bill Kristol [55:18]
Family Influence on Political Moderation:
Both speculate that seeing their daughters (liberal-leaning young women) and the broader generational backlash might nudge some GOP figures like Cruz and MTG toward more independent stances.

Noteworthy Quotes

On Racial Profiling in Immigration Enforcement:
"They're masked guys. They're going out and menacing people, just solely based on racial profiling." —Tim Miller [06:15]
On Democratic Erosion:
"This is not democratic government. I mean, this is the President of the United States just doing things as he wishes and then not briefing...the United States Congress." —Bill Kristol [32:56]
On Political Coalition Fatigue:
"America First...has a certain resonance probably out there...MAGA has now accumulated so much stuff that I wonder...how that slogan is really faring politically." —Bill Kristol [53:08]
On Farmer Bailouts vs. Social Safety Net:
"These fucking welfare queens. Have some dignity. The farmers showing up to the White House to take yet another welfare check from the President." —Tim Miller [17:24]

Important Timestamps

[01:12] Start of political discussion: New Orleans targeted by federal immigration crackdown
[06:15] Racial profiling and ICE/Border Patrol’s impact on communities
[11:17] Grassroots resistance to federal enforcement
[17:24] Trump’s $12B farmer bailout analysis
[21:13] Treasury Secretary’s questionable agricultural claims
[24:29] Health care subsidy debate
[30:38] Mark Warner’s response to Caribbean strike secrecy
[35:41] Legality and rationale of targeted killings disputed
[37:23] New national security strategy omits China, indulges “culture war”
[40:39] Texas Senate race and shifting Democratic strategies
[49:24] Marjorie Taylor Greene breaks with MAGA, critiques Trump
[54:45] Ted Cruz goes after Tucker Carlson, MAGA nationalists

Tone, Style, and Closing Thoughts

The episode is sharply critical, often sardonic, but rooted in fact-based argument. Both hosts blend mockery of administration excesses with a serious lament for eroding democratic standards and norms, all while calling for smarter political opposition—be it grassroots activism, more effective candidate selection, or strategic political messaging. It closes with levity: Tim and Bill reflecting on the strange predicament of potentially rooting for Ted Cruz against Trumpism’s next wave.

The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Bill Kristol: This Is Not Democratic Government
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol (Bulwark Editor at Large)

Episode Overview

1. Immigration Crackdown & Community Response

[01:12–15:33]

Key Themes & Points

New Orleans Becomes a Federal Target:
Tim recounts how New Orleans has unexpectedly become a focal point for ICE and Border Patrol operations, with federal agents—often masked—detaining and menacing locals based largely on racial profiling rather than actionable intelligence.
- "They're masked guys. They're going out and menacing people, just solely based on racial profiling." —Tim Miller [06:15]
Questionable Justifications for Federal Action:
Bill and Tim dissect the administration’s shifting rationales (from “violent criminals” to “job displacement”), highlighting their dubious logic and the reality that labor shortages have worsened as workers, even those legally present, fear harassment.
On-the-ground Impact:
- Citizens and legal immigrants from mixed-status families are being harassed or avoiding work due to fear.
- Small businesses—often owned by Americans, sometimes Trump voters—are unable to fill jobs.
Public & Civic Pushback:
- Grassroots resistance, like whistle-wielding protesters and “know your rights” workshops, is gaining traction.
- "The public...gets credit for this. They have been very...impressed by this regular...the number of volunteers...really been impressive. And I do think it's, in a way a civic reaction against what's happening as much as a political one." —Bill Kristol [11:17]
Federal Militarization & Lack of Accountability:
- Resurrection of masked federal agents draws comparisons to authoritarian states, even as courts have enabled these tactics.
- "It's so un-American. It's so creepy, and people really don't like it, I think. And all the gear and the kit and the whole, you know, military aspect of it here." —Bill Kristol [08:21]
Dysfunction at DHS & Leadership Scuttlebutt:
Reports swirl that Secretary Noem may be on the way out, exposing the inner turmoil and lack of coherent strategy.

Notable Segment

[05:25] Tim describes a video of a Filipino American, a citizen, being harassed for papers—underscoring the climate of fear and racial profiling in New Orleans.
[09:43] Tim notes a viral video where a masked agent's presence is so intimidating a young woman thinks she’s being kidnapped.

2. Trump’s Farmer Bailout and Economic Policy Hypocrisy

[17:24–24:29]

Key Themes & Points

Announcement of $12 Billion Farmer Bailout:
Trump administration to provide one-time, direct cash payments to select farmers hit by the impact of tariffs—juxtaposed with slashed social programs and lack of help for lower-income Americans.
- "These fucking welfare queens. Have some dignity. The farmers showing up to the White House to take yet another welfare check from the President." —Tim Miller [17:24]
- "Farmers are hurting because of Trump's tariffs...it would be worth someone doing a little reporting on who exactly these people at the White House are what their total income and net worth is..." —Bill Kristol [19:03]
Double Standard and Political Quid Pro Quo:
Recipients of farm subsidies are often expected to praise Trump at White House events, while those in need of health care or food assistance go unsupported.
- "You would think that people like the old conservative tradition of appreciating hard work, that you would...rather just do the farming and sell my products to our customers overseas rather than you screwing us..." —Tim Miller [19:53]
Mockery of Administration’s Ethical Posturing:
The Treasury Secretary's dubious claim to be an “agricultural expert” is lampooned, with Tim fact-checking the assertion and finding it laughable.

Notable Segment

[21:13] Tim and Bill pick apart the Treasury Secretary’s claim of agricultural expertise and slow ethics compliance.
[23:08] Tim cross-checks the claim against historical Treasury Secretaries, finding former Secretary John Connolly was truly raised on a farm.

3. Health Care Subsidies & Political Leverage

[24:29–28:32]

Key Themes & Points

Enhanced Obamacare Subsidies & Political Opportunity:
Democrats push to extend enhanced health care subsidies, using Republican opposition—and the overt farmer bailout—as talking points against Trump’s first year.
- "They should spend all week screaming and yelling about it and then scream and yell when the Republicans stop people from getting the help they deserve. They can use Trump's farm subsidies..." —Bill Kristol [24:29]
Tariffs, Rising Health Costs & Missed Priorities:
The administration’s lack of a comprehensive health care plan, despite ample time and power, is contrasted with its aggressive action on tariffs and tax cuts for the wealthy.

4. Foreign Policy: Bombings, Oversight, and Disinformation

[29:55–39:25]

Key Themes & Points

Controversial Caribbean Strike:
Senate Intelligence Committee Vice Chair Mark Warner, after viewing video, is disturbed by both the administration’s conduct and lack of Congressional transparency.
- "He genuinely was appalled...also appalled by the changing stories of the administration. He didn't want to criticize the military directly, but I think he feels like they've been put in just an impossible position and haven't been candid from the beginning..." —Bill Kristol [30:38]
Secrecy and Democratic Norms:
Congress and even top intelligence officials denied full access to information, with shifting administration stories about strike legality and targets.
- "This is not democratic government. I mean, this is the President of the United States just doing things as he wishes and then not briefing...the United States Congress." —Bill Kristol [32:56]
National Security Strategy: China Neglect & “Culture War” Priority:
The Trump administration national security strategy is criticized for barely mentioning China—despite years of rhetoric—and instead fixating on “culture war” issues and hostility toward European liberalism.
- "They have this national security strategy...barely talks about China at all...When you kind of put it like that, it is pretty crazy." —Tim Miller [37:23]
- "Utterly unserious. And in fact, he's eager to cut deals with Xi and he's going to sell out Taiwan..." —Bill Kristol [38:08]

Notable Segment

[35:41] Bill outlines the absurdity of justifying drone strikes because “everyone killed was on a list”—raising legal and moral alarms.

5. The Texas Senate Race: Progressive Firebrands vs. Pragmatism

[40:39–47:57]

Key Themes & Points

Colin Allred’s Departure and Jasmine Crockett’s Entry:
Texas Senate primary turns toward younger, more progressive, social media-savvy candidates—Tim argues this may not be electorally smart for Democrats in red states.
Lessons from Candidate Selection:
Both hosts stress the risk of elevating partisan firebrands in tough states, pointing to recent evidence that moderate candidates often perform better.
- "Democrats...should be able to run different types of candidates in different places." —Tim Miller [44:54]
A Cautionary Comparison:
Democratic over-correction in response to Trump-era tactics may result in repeating the GOP’s own mistakes with unelectable, extreme Senate candidates.

Notable Segment

[46:10] Bill invokes Alyssa Slotkin’s victory in Michigan as supportive evidence for strategic moderation.

6. GOP Dynamics: Marjorie Taylor Greene, Cruz vs. MAGA, and the Future

[49:24–57:06]

Key Themes & Points

Marjorie Taylor Greene's Rhetorical Pivot:
MTG attacks Trump from an “America First” stance, distancing herself from MAGA and critiquing Trump for helping donors and establishment interests.
- "He passed a crypto bill that helped out all the crypto donors. He has served Israel's interest, even attacking Iran. He has served Big Pharma. He didn't take away the COVID vaccines that we want to see taken away." —Marjorie Taylor Greene (quoted by Tim Miller) [49:52]
- Bill and Tim agree it’s notable when accurate criticism comes from unlikely sources and suggest MTG's framing could resonate among parts of Trump's coalition.
America First vs. MAGA—A Fracturing Coalition:
Bill wonders about the future salience of “MAGA” as a slogan, given its increasingly mixed reputation even among Trump’s own base.
- "It was America First...has a certain resonance probably out there. MAGA has now accumulated so much stuff that I wonder...how that slogan is really faring politically." —Bill Kristol [53:08]
Ted Cruz’s Surprising Relevance:
Tim jokes about his brief, reluctant stint as a Cruz supporter in 2016 and notes Cruz’s recent aggressive critiques of obvious MAGA excesses, such as Tucker Carlson palling around in Qatar.
- "And I'm sorry to say Ted Cruz did a good tweet." —Tim Miller [54:45]
- "He does believe in certain things...he knows that some of these policies are very destructive..." —Bill Kristol [55:18]
Family Influence on Political Moderation:
Both speculate that seeing their daughters (liberal-leaning young women) and the broader generational backlash might nudge some GOP figures like Cruz and MTG toward more independent stances.

Noteworthy Quotes

On Racial Profiling in Immigration Enforcement:
"They're masked guys. They're going out and menacing people, just solely based on racial profiling." —Tim Miller [06:15]
On Democratic Erosion:
"This is not democratic government. I mean, this is the President of the United States just doing things as he wishes and then not briefing...the United States Congress." —Bill Kristol [32:56]
On Political Coalition Fatigue:
"America First...has a certain resonance probably out there...MAGA has now accumulated so much stuff that I wonder...how that slogan is really faring politically." —Bill Kristol [53:08]
On Farmer Bailouts vs. Social Safety Net:
"These fucking welfare queens. Have some dignity. The farmers showing up to the White House to take yet another welfare check from the President." —Tim Miller [17:24]

Important Timestamps

[01:12] Start of political discussion: New Orleans targeted by federal immigration crackdown
[06:15] Racial profiling and ICE/Border Patrol’s impact on communities
[11:17] Grassroots resistance to federal enforcement
[17:24] Trump’s $12B farmer bailout analysis
[21:13] Treasury Secretary’s questionable agricultural claims
[24:29] Health care subsidy debate
[30:38] Mark Warner’s response to Caribbean strike secrecy
[35:41] Legality and rationale of targeted killings disputed
[37:23] New national security strategy omits China, indulges “culture war”
[40:39] Texas Senate race and shifting Democratic strategies
[49:24] Marjorie Taylor Greene breaks with MAGA, critiques Trump
[54:45] Ted Cruz goes after Tucker Carlson, MAGA nationalists

Bill Kristol: This Is Not Democratic Government

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast

Episode Overview

1. Immigration Crackdown & Community Response

Key Themes & Points

Notable Segment

2. Trump’s Farmer Bailout and Economic Policy Hypocrisy

Key Themes & Points

Notable Segment

3. Health Care Subsidies & Political Leverage

Key Themes & Points

4. Foreign Policy: Bombings, Oversight, and Disinformation

Key Themes & Points

Notable Segment

5. The Texas Senate Race: Progressive Firebrands vs. Pragmatism

Key Themes & Points

Notable Segment

6. GOP Dynamics: Marjorie Taylor Greene, Cruz vs. MAGA, and the Future

Key Themes & Points

Noteworthy Quotes

Important Timestamps

Tone, Style, and Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast

Episode Overview

1. Immigration Crackdown & Community Response

Key Themes & Points

Notable Segment

2. Trump’s Farmer Bailout and Economic Policy Hypocrisy

Key Themes & Points

Notable Segment

3. Health Care Subsidies & Political Leverage

Key Themes & Points

4. Foreign Policy: Bombings, Oversight, and Disinformation

Key Themes & Points

Notable Segment

5. The Texas Senate Race: Progressive Firebrands vs. Pragmatism

Key Themes & Points

Notable Segment

6. GOP Dynamics: Marjorie Taylor Greene, Cruz vs. MAGA, and the Future

Key Themes & Points

Noteworthy Quotes

Important Timestamps

Tone, Style, and Closing Thoughts