The Bulwark Podcast: "Bill Kristol: Trump Is Humiliating Us"

Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol (Bulwark Editor at Large)

Episode Overview

This MLK Day episode revolves around Donald Trump's bizarre and alarming push to “purchase” Greenland—accompanied by threats of tariffs against US allies until they cede the territory—and the wider diplomatic, political, and domestic fallout of Trump's authoritarian maneuvers. Tim Miller and Bill Kristol dissect the farcical but consequential nature of these actions, the complicity and cowardice of congressional Republicans, the role of US allies, and the increasing normalization of dystopian immigration enforcement in America. The episode also explores what meaningful resistance and policy response might look like, and ends with reflections on Martin Luther King Jr.'s legacy, optimism, and civic courage.

Main Discussion Topics

1. Trump's Greenland Gambit and International Fallout

[03:03 - 11:12]

• Trump's Official Statement ("Greenland Ultimatum"):
  On Saturday, Trump declared tariffs (10% from Feb 1, 25% from June 1) on several European countries until “the complete and total purchase of Greenland.”
  • Quote (Tim): "We're going to do a 10% sales tax on Americans until Denmark gives us Greenland, I guess is the plan. Yeah." [04:23]
• Absurdity and Danger:
  • Kristol: Describes the plan as “totally insane,” noting the lack of mention of Greenland in Trump's actual national security strategy documents.
    • “It’s utterly fake...He’s not anti-Russia anyway. But China is very much enjoying our fight with the EU.” [05:03]
  • Tim underscores the real-world cost: Americans paying more for EU goods over a personal vanity project.
• Damage to Alliances, Shift Toward China:
  • Kristol: Warns that Europe, historically tolerant of Trump’s antics, has “finally snapped.” Now, “they’re going to decide China is a more reliable trading partner.” [05:39]
  • Memorable Quote: “It’s interesting that something so farcical can also be so disastrous, so damaging.” [06:37]
• Vanity, Bullying & Tariff 'Emergencies':
  • Tim describes Trump’s stance as “a tantrum,” comparing him to “a rich kid inside FAO Schwarz at Christmas.”
    • "It's a tantrum is what it's about. Obviously the tariff thing is also farcical." [07:19]
  • Points out the lack of any real “emergency” justifying unilateral tariff action.

2. Erosion of Congressional Oversight and Republican Complicity

[11:12 - 15:39]

• Humiliation and Legislative Power:
  • Kristol: "Congress has some power over this...They could pass a war powers resolution saying no use of force in Greenland. That would be two things to put up some barriers to Trump's damaging insanity.” [11:14]
• Bipartisan Delegation to Denmark:
  • Miller debunks the “bipartisan” veneer: the only GOPers in the group are either retiring or outliers, not representative of current party leadership. [13:20-14:07]
  • Republicans like Collins and Murkowski could change the Senate’s balance with a defection, but choose not to.
• Failure to Even Mildly Rebuke:
  • Miller references the lack of action: "If you read this statement about how Donald Trump is sad he’s not getting the Nobel Peace Prize and he blames Norway... and possibly invade Greenland... you’d think, 25th Amendment, right?” [15:39]

3. U.S. Foreign Policy Collapse: Ukraine, NATO, and “Peace Boards”

[17:39 - 20:10]

• Trump Sides with Putin, Ignores Ukraine:
  • Trump blames Zelensky, invites Putin to a “Gaza Board of Peace.”
    • Kristol: "In a sane world, he would be removed from office by a vote of 315 out of 100 in the House and 85 to 15 in the Senate." [20:10]
• Allies Demoralized, Russia & China Emboldened:
  • Europe now considers U.S. less reliable than China.
  • NATO badly shaken; “we’re breaking up NATO. We’re basically thugs on the world stage.” [15:39]

4. Domestic Authoritarianism: ICE Abuse and Civil Liberties

[23:29 - 35:42]

• Minneapolis: Use of ICE Against Political Foes & Protesters
  • Trump’s DoJ attempts to prosecute Minnesota officials—unapologetic abuse of power. Miller notes the “yakety-sax disaster” of failed politically-motivated prosecutions, but points to serious harm from ICE and DHS actions.
• Judicial Pushback:
  • Judge Catherine Menendez bars ICE agents from arresting or pepper-spraying people for merely observing or criticizing government actions.
    • Miller: "It is, I think, pretty important...they've laid out...a meticulous documentation of the kind of abuses that we've seen from ICE." [27:22]
• ICE's Dystopian Tactics:
  • CNN report: Immigrants detained for their accent, use of facial recognition for spot-checks.
    • Bill: “This used to be a talking point... about China... this is what it means to be a free society, that we don't do this. ...If you have big papers, guys, you don't have any rights.” [31:53]
  • Miller: “It’s really like RoboCop, futuristic evil stuff that they're doing.” [31:53]
• Congress’s Abdication:
  • Both hosts lament that Congress (mostly Republicans, but also Democrats) is AWOL on ICE oversight and limiting executive overreach.

5. The Abolish ICE Debate

[37:47 - 43:32]

• Difference from "Defund the Police":
  • Kristol: “Most police departments have improved...and you need to have a police department. ICE seems to be so corrupt now...it should be sort of reformed from the ground up.” [38:55]
• Political Realities:
  • Miller argues that most Americans have no positive association with ICE, making it an easier political target than police reform.
    • "People's relationship with the police...they understand the function... Most people have no positive association with ICE at all. Or no relationship with ICE at all." [40:09]

6. Democratic Responses and Executive Action

[44:33 - 47:16]

• Spanberger in Virginia: Model of Aggressive Reform
  • Virginia Gov. Abigail Spanberger’s executive orders to block ICE cooperation and overhaul university boards are cited as models for how Democrats could act when reclaiming executive power.
  • Kristol: “She becomes an example of what you do if you take executive authority.” [46:32]

7. MLK Day Reflections and Hope

[47:16 - End]

• Trump’s Disdain for MLK Jr.:
  • Kristol details how Trump’s administration removed MLK Day (and Juneteenth) from the list of free national park entry days, in contrast to celebrating Trump’s own birthday. “What do [MLK Day and Juneteenth] have in common?” [47:30]
  • No White House statement on MLK observed.
• Lessons from King:
  • Kristol: “King was upbeat, basically, and, you know, thought justice will ultimately prevail against the forces he was fighting...He was a pretty amazing person in any case.” [49:01]
  • Miller: “It’s important to project that optimism to make the world what you want it to be. Nobody got anything by being so demoralized that they gave up.” [50:42]

Highlighted Quotes & Key Moments

• “It’s interesting that something so farcical can also be so disastrous, so damaging.”
  — Bill Kristol, reflecting on the absurd seriousness of the Greenland debacle. [06:37]

• “Congress has some power over this...Tariffs. Congress is supposed to be the body that institutes tariffs.”
  — Bill Kristol, on legislative abdication. [11:12]

• “Donald Trump is a sociopath, right? So he can’t really be humiliated. But maybe some of these members, you’re talking about, of Congress can.”
  — Tim Miller, on the importance of invoking a sense of shame and accountability. [11:25]

• “We’re driving Europe into China’s arms, we’re breaking up NATO...the rationale for it is Looney Tunes dementia style stuff.”
  — Tim Miller, bluntly summing up the global consequences. [15:39]

• “This used to be kind of a talking point...about China...what it means to be a free society, that we don’t do this.”
  — Bill Kristol, on ICE’s transformation of American norms. [31:53]

• “People's relationship with the police, even if they have some concerns...they understand the function... Most people have no positive association with ICE at all.”
  — Tim Miller, on the politics of "Abolish ICE." [40:09]

• “King should give us some hope. But I’ve got to say, we need the hope, because when you look at the current circumstances, Ivy Trump's a little more popular. That’s good. But...the damage to the world order and liberal order at home, it can get one demoralized.”
  — Bill Kristol, concluding with a call for hope amid despair. [50:32]

Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Opening and Intro: [01:42-02:43]
• Greenland Ultimatum & Tariffs: [03:03-06:47]
• International Fallout & European Response: [06:47-11:12]
• Congressional Complicity: [11:12-15:31]
• Foreign Policy Meltdown—NATO/Ukraine: [17:39-20:10]
• ICE Authoritarianism/Domestic Overreach: [23:29-35:42]
• “Abolish ICE” vs “Defund the Police”: [37:47-43:32]
• Democratic Policy Models (Spanberger): [44:33-47:16]
• MLK Day, Optimism & Democratic Morale: [47:16-End]

Tone & Style

The tone is caustic, frustrated, and at times incredulous, with flashes of humor to “wash down the crazy.” Both Miller and Kristol are unsparing in their criticism of Trump, congressional Republicans, and the collapse of liberal democratic norms—but remain determined to strategically resist, and close with the hope and determination exemplified by Martin Luther King, Jr.

Summary Takeaway

Tim Miller and Bill Kristol deliver a scathing, detailed, and exasperated breakdown of the Trump administration’s latest attacks on liberal democracy—from contempt for NATO and democratic allies to the creeping normalization of authoritarian policing tactics at home. They urge assertive policy responses, call out the cowardice and complicity of Congress, and invoke the lessons and spirit of MLK as both reminder and rallying point for democratic resilience.