The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Catherine Rampell: Who Are the Socialists Now?
Date: October 31, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Catherine Rampell

Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller welcomes Catherine Rampell, former Washington Post columnist and the Bulwark’s incoming economics editor, to discuss the evolving state of the U.S. economy, the impact of Trump-era economic and immigration policies, “socialism” in contemporary American politics, and the political implications of recent government actions. The conversation is candid, analytical, and laced with humor, offering fresh insights into the intersection of economics, policy, and political strategy.

Guest Introduction & Career Highlights

• Catherine Rampell’s Background

  • Early journalistic ambitions, starting with high school internships
  • Entry into economics journalism thanks to experience working with labor economist Alan Krueger
  • Played a key role during the 2008 financial crisis at the New York Times
  • Highlights the “perverse incentives” that tough times can bring for economics reporters
  • Notable Quote:
    • “When the world is going to hell on your beat, it’s really good for your career. So it creates some perverse incentives.” (03:00, Rampell)

• Reflection on the Washington Post

  • Rampell discusses her decision to leave for The Bulwark, noting concerns about the Post’s direction under Jeff Bezos, who is attempting to “win back trust” by elevating “conservative” voices (but not necessarily authentic ones) (06:22)
  • Stresses her respect for many at the Post and her hope for the institution’s continued public service

State of the U.S. Economy

Macroeconomic Overview & Tariff Policy

(08:00–13:00)

• Economy described as “chugging along” but “fragile.”
• Real-world example: Artificial Christmas tree business faces a tariff bill increase from $1m to $15m due to volatility and uncertainty in tariffs
• Business owners are “spending all their time” on tariff avoidance rather than building products or serving customers
• Rampell on Trump’s impact:
  • “If Trump had just come into office and done nothing...the economy would probably be doing a lot better by now.” (10:07, Rampell)
• Immigration policy and labor shortages further complicate the landscape, disrupting various industries and raising costs
• Not just undocumented workers — documented immigrants are getting “de-documented,” which potentially impacts professionals like doctors

Rural America & Regional Pain

(13:30–16:00)

• Rural areas suffering more than others; e.g., Iowa’s GDP contracted before full tariff and shutdown effects
• Loss of programs like SNAP benefits, nutrition assistance, and Head Start “cascades” through local economies, especially where no alternative exists
• Trump trade war led to China halting U.S. soybean purchases. Trump then claimed victory when China resumed partial buying, which Rampell calls “the arsonist demanding praise for his firefighting skills.” (15:54, Rampell)

Tariffs Update & Emerging Consequences

(17:00–24:00)

• New rounds of tariffs: On Canada going up, on China slightly down but still “very high”
• The prevailing global tariff rate is “way worse” than what markets found hard to believe during the last presidential run
• Many companies stockpiled inventory expecting Trump would win, but inventories are running out, and the impacts of new tariffs are beginning to bite
• “Complete waste of time, effort, and money” due to endless supply chain recalibrations (18:05, Rampell)
• Layoffs at firms like Target, Amazon, Paramount Airlines, and UPS as warning signs
• AI/data centers as a rare bright spot but lead to fears of a “bubble”
  • Rampell:
    • “What we're seeing right now is this huge arms race...because companies assume it's going to be a winner-take-all situation.” (21:55)

SNAP Benefits and the Shutdown Stalemate

(26:21–33:18)

• Trump administration ends SNAP payments amid shutdown, even with funds available, viewed as a pressure tactic on Democrats
• Rampell: “A lot of people are going to be hurt by this, including a lot of Trump voters in rural areas.” (27:14)
• Most people don’t know who to blame or aren’t following the complexities; frustration likely to turn into generalized anger
  • “One of my most deeply held beliefs is that complexity rewards demagogues.” (32:11)
• Democrats struggle to effectively message blame, while Republicans exploit the narrative complexity

Contemporary "Socialism" – Who Gets Called the Socialist Now?

(34:31–41:00)

• Trump administration is taking “participation interests” and equity stakes in private businesses (Westinghouse, U.S. Steel, Nvidia), which Rampell compares to “China-ish” industrial policy
• Rampell: “Trump is basically privatizing the state and socializing the private sector...Hard to imagine how apoplectic Republicans would be if President Sanders or President AOC did these things.” (35:18)
• Both left and right seem to embrace state power for their ends (horseshoe theory); market distortion and corruption likely
• Historic context: Old right-wing fights over “crony capitalism” now seem quaint compared to the current level of government intervention

New York City Politics: Mayoral Race and “Socialism”

(39:38–44:53)

• Tim Miller jokes about Bill Kristol’s hypothetical support for Zoran Mamdani, a Democratic Socialist
• Rampell discusses Mamdani’s mixed messaging (“very adept at reflecting back to people what they want to hear”) and the limits of what NYC’s mayor can really do given Albany’s control over taxes, etc.
• Rampell critiques the “Scandinavian welfare state without a Scandinavian tax base” approach—people support “tax the rich” until they realize who the rich really are
• Rampell: “The main jobs of a mayor are making sure the trash gets picked up…it’s not the big transformative stuff.” (43:38)

Immigration Enforcement, Corruption, and Crypto Scandals

(47:37–57:10)

• Discuss a case where a long-time Trump golf club worker was “wrongly deported to Mexico by mistake,” highlighting the real-world impact of Trump’s immigration actions, even on people who supported or worked for him
• Double standards around Trump’s own hiring of undocumented workers and spousal immigration history (“Nobody ever cares because…I think this is a common issue. She’s white.” – 50:03, Rampell)
• Probe into the pardoning of crypto criminals who funneled money into Trump’s coffers (“the most blatant corruption in presidential history,” says Miller, 52:34)
• Rampell is dismissive of mainstream claims for the functional value of most crypto, calling it “a speculative asset” and a tool for hiding illegal activity
• Regulatory failure and lack of transparency (“You don't even know who's giving the money. We don't know who's buying Trump Coin or Melania Coin…” – 57:00, Rampell)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “When the world is going to hell on your beat, it’s really good for your career.” (03:00, Rampell)
• “If Trump had just come into office and done nothing...the economy would probably be doing a lot better by now.” (10:07, Rampell)
• “It’s the arsonist demanding praise for his firefighting skills. That’s the whole Trump MO.” (15:54, Rampell)
• “One of my most deeply held beliefs is that complexity rewards demagogues.” (32:11, Rampell)
• “Trump is basically privatizing the state and socializing the private sector.” (35:18, Rampell)
• Humorous aside about Halloween costumes, including Miller’s “multiple geese” and Rampell’s baby as a chicken (05:12)
• Lively animal cameos at the end – Rampell’s cats Ernie and Dottie earn a shout-out (58:30)

Key Timestamps

• 03:00 – Rampell details her break into economic journalism and early career
• 06:22 – State of the Washington Post, why she left
• 08:00 – The current “fragile” state of the economy, tariff case study
• 13:30 – Rural America’s economic pain, policy impacts
• 17:00 – State of tariffs globally and sectoral effects
• 21:55 – AI bubble talk and macro effects
• 26:21 – SNAP benefits suspended amid shutdown and political implications
• 32:11 – Political messaging; why complexity helps demagogues
• 35:18 – Government stakes in private business: “who are the socialists now?”
• 39:38 – NYC mayoral race and the reality of “socialist” governance
• 47:37 – Immigration enforcement stories and hypocrisy
• 52:34 – Corruption and crypto, dismissing the value in current “crypto economy”
• 57:00 – Lack of transparency and direct bribery in politics

Tone, Energy & Final Thoughts

Rampell brings incisive analysis, clear explanations, and a touch of dry humor to complex topics. Miller mixes serious policy critique with typically Bulwarkian irreverence, and together they capture both the absurdity and gravity of contemporary American politics. Their willingness to question both parties, highlight hypocrisy, and poke fun at themselves (and each other) keeps the episode lively, even as it grapples with weighty subjects.

For Listeners New to the Podcast

This episode will give you an insightful, highly accessible tour of the current economic and political terrain: you’ll understand not just the headlines, but how policy decisions impact real people and businesses—and how both parties, in different ways, have contributed to our current state of “who are the socialists now?” The mix of serious analysis and offbeat asides makes it engaging and smart—a hallmark of The Bulwark Podcast.

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