Dan Osborn: Connecting with Working People

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast: Dan Osborne—Connecting with Working People

Release Date: August 1, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in an in-depth conversation with Dan Osborne, an independent candidate running for the United States Senate in Nebraska. The episode, titled "Dan Osborne: Connecting with Working People," delves into the challenges facing the Democratic Party, the dynamics of independent candidacies, and the pressing issues that resonate with working-class Americans.

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1. Introduction and Political Climate

[01:30] Tim Miller:
Tim kicks off the discussion by highlighting the current state of the Democratic Party in various states, emphasizing the significance of having Dan Osborne on the podcast. He notes Osborne's recent Senate race in Nebraska, where he secured substantial support but ultimately lost by six and a half points to Deb Fisher—a state where Donald Trump previously won by a landslide.

[02:05] Dan Osborne:
Dan expresses his frustration with the Democratic Party's inability to compete effectively across key states, pointing out the structural challenges within the Senate and Electoral College that favor Republicans. He underscores the urgency of addressing these issues to prevent a stagnant political environment.

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2. Dan Osborne's Background and Candidacy

[10:11] Tim Miller:
Tim formally introduces Dan Osborne, highlighting his diverse background as a steam fitter, former union president, Navy veteran, and member of the Nebraska Army National Guard. Osborne’s journey from union leadership to an independent Senate candidate forms a significant part of the discussion.

[12:01] Dan Osborne:
Dan recounts his 20-year tenure with the Grain Millers International Union, culminating in his election as union president. He details the pivotal moment of leading a 77-day strike against a profitable Kellogg’s company that sought to undermine workers' wages and benefits. This experience ignited his passion for politics and advocacy for working-class Americans.

[17:30] Tim Miller:
Tim probes further into Osborne’s strike experience, asking about interactions with political figures like Governor Pete Ricketts, who surprisingly supported the strike by urging Kellogg’s to return workers.

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3. Evolving Political Views and Independent Stance

[25:10] Dan Osborne:
Dan elaborates on his independent political stance, distancing himself from the traditional two-party system. He emphasizes economic issues over social ones, advocating for policies that ensure financial stability for ordinary Americans. Dan criticizes the lack of Democratic focus on supporting small family farms and Main Street businesses overwhelmed by corporate giants like Dollar General.

[31:07] Tim Miller:
Tim challenges Dan's critique of both political parties, seeking clarification on whether his disillusionment stems more from systemic corruption than ideological differences.

[31:36] Dan Osborne:
Dan agrees, highlighting the entrenched tribalism and corruption within both parties. He laments the divisiveness that forces individuals to choose sides, leading to fractured communities and families.

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4. Economic Policies and Tariffs

[42:23] Dan Osborne:
The conversation shifts to economic policies, where Dan expresses skepticism about the efficacy of broad tariffs. He cites the negative impact on Nebraska’s farmers and small businesses, emphasizing that tariffs often act as a hidden tax on consumers rather than providing substantial benefits to American workers.

[43:28] Dan Osborne:
Dan references historical instances, such as the 2016 tariffs on soybeans, which harmed farmers and necessitated bailouts. He argues that while targeted tariffs might support specific industries, blanket tariffs generally do more harm than good by increasing costs for everyday consumers.

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5. Immigration and Foreign Policy

[37:14] Dan Osborne:
Dan addresses the Trump administration's stringent immigration policies, condemning actions like raids and the separation of families. He criticizes the lack of due process and the human toll of these measures, advocating for comprehensive immigration reform that balances national security with humanitarian considerations.

[44:55] Dan Osborne:
Discussing foreign policy, Dan emphasizes America's role in supporting allies and intervening in conflicts to prevent atrocities. He cites the Ukraine and Israel-Gaza conflicts as areas where U.S. intervention is necessary to uphold human rights and global stability.

[47:43] Dan Osborne:
When questioned about supporting Israel, Dan asserts that while Israel has the right to defend itself, the U.S. should avoid supplying offensive munitions that exacerbate civilian casualties. He advocates for a balanced approach that prioritizes peace and humanitarian aid.

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6. Critique of Opponent and Political Strategy

[48:32] Dan Osborne:
Dan offers a scathing critique of his Senate opponent, Pete Ricketts, accusing him of embodying the worst aspects of corporate influence in politics. He highlights Ricketts' extensive spending on negative ad campaigns and his inability to address critical issues like sex trafficking, which ironically coincides with his public proclamations during relevant awareness months.

[50:13] Dan Osborne:
Dan articulates his dissatisfaction with Ricketts' failure to prioritize Nebraska's needs over party loyalty. He emphasizes the necessity for politicians to listen to and act on the genuine concerns of their constituents rather than adhering strictly to party lines.

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7. Rapid-Fire Questions and Personal Insights

[51:18] Dan Osborne:
In a lighter segment, Tim engages Dan in rapid-fire questions about his views on past presidents. Dan praises Bill Clinton for economic management but criticizes Ronald Reagan for undermining union strength, notably through actions against air traffic controllers.

[53:10] Tim Miller:
The conversation concludes on a humorous note, with Dan sharing his thoughts on Nebraska's Huskers football, expressing optimism about their resurgence under new leadership.

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8. Closing Remarks

[53:35] Tim Miller:
Tim thanks Dan Osborne for his participation, wishing him luck in his Senate campaign and acknowledging his commitment to working for Nebraska's working people.

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Notable Quotes

• Dan Osborne [02:05]:
  "He is clearly kind of left progressive on a lot of economic issues, which is maybe the right path forward."

• Dan Osborne [04:05]:
  "And it's a crisis in part because of the Senate and how unfair the Senate is and how undemocratic the Senate is."

• Dan Osborne [25:24]:
  "I don't hang my hat on social issues. To me, being able to help the most amount of people is uplifting them economically."

• Dan Osborne [39:18]:
  "I don't know. You know, I have neighbors around here that are Trump supporters and, you know, they feel like economically his tariffs are going to get America ahead and economically."

• Dan Osborne [47:47]:
  "We all occupy this planet and we have to figure out ways to coexist with each other."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a thorough exploration of the intersection between union leadership and independent political candidacy through Dan Osborne's experiences. It underscores the complexities of navigating a two-party system that often overlooks the nuanced needs of working-class Americans. Osborne's perspectives on economic policies, immigration, and foreign affairs present a roadmap for those seeking pragmatic solutions over partisan rhetoric. His critique of traditional political structures and emphasis on genuine representation resonate with listeners who are disillusioned with the current state of American politics.

For individuals interested in alternative political voices and grassroots movements advocating for economic justice and effective governance, this episode provides valuable insights and a candid look into the challenges and aspirations of an independent candidate striving to make a meaningful impact.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

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[Tim Miller]

Hey everybody, it's Tim. Just a couple scheduling notes and then.

[Dan Osborne]

I want to deliver a little rant about the state of play for the Democrats in some of these states across the country and why I thought it was so important to have Dan Osborne on the pod today. So you'll be getting Dan as this independent candidate running in Nebraska, Somebody I've been wanting to talk to for a while ran a really close race and I guess not that close. He lost by six and a half points to Deb Fisher, but in the same state where Donald Trump won by 1920 points. And so whether there are lessons to learn, there is something that we can talk about.

[Tim Miller]

A bunch of other stuff in the news if you headed over to the Borg Takes feed.

[Dan Osborne]

I grabbed my boy Pablo Torre and we talked about Trump's sport council, which I have some issues with with Sam Stein. We Talked about Donald Trump's renovation, $200 million renovation. He needs a new fancy ballroom.

[Tim Miller]

Here's the thing.

[Dan Osborne]

I give this a little bit with Dan.

[Tim Miller]

It's like the vanguard of the working.

[Dan Osborne]

Man, you know, the man that is going to go out there and fight for the forgotten man all across the country.

[Tim Miller]

It seems like his top priority at this moment is basically interior design for the White House. It was ensuring he got a big tax break for his rich friends. It's protecting people that were at some.

[Dan Osborne]

Level involved in a child sex trafficking.

[Tim Miller]

Ring who are likely very elite and very wealthy and not really seeing the passion for helping the working man out from Donald Trump. Translating that to working class voters, though, is a real challenge. And I talked about that with Dan a little bit today. I think that Dan's model is an interesting one.

[Dan Osborne]

He is clearly kind of left progressive on a lot of economic issues, which is maybe the right path forward.

[Tim Miller]

He really wants to focus and talk about those issues.

[Dan Osborne]

I'll be interested to see how that turns out this time in Nebraska. I think that there is another path that a lot of progressives bristle at, which is finding people who have more.

[Tim Miller]

Cultural affinity with the Trump voters. And maybe they can deliver a message about Trump's hypocrisy on working class issues.

[Dan Osborne]

About how Trump is a fucking charlatan.

[Tim Miller]

And a phony more effectively than people that code more as social left or in league with whatever the kind of elite, the culture or the dominant elite culture. I think that that's possible, too. But the thing that is most important about all this, that I just really.

[Dan Osborne]

Want to get across is this is.

[Tim Miller]

An urgent crisis, and it really matters.

[Dan Osborne]

That Democrats are so unable to compete across big swast America.

[Tim Miller]

And it's a crisis in part because.

[Dan Osborne]

Of the Senate and how unfair the Senate is and how undemocratic the Senate is. And if we had a magic genie.

[Tim Miller]

And a magic wand, maybe the answer would be to fix the Senate, three more states or whatever, to bring some balance, because as a country, we're pretty.

[Dan Osborne]

Close to 50, 50.

[Tim Miller]

But because of the nature of the Senate, because of the nature of the Electoral College, the Republicans are going to have a big advantage that will persist if they continue to do better and better with working class and rural Americans. We can lament that and say it sucks and say you can reform it. Okay, fine. But in the meantime, you got to compete in the rules of the game. And I just don't think the Democrats.

[Dan Osborne]

Are competing in the rules of the game.

[Tim Miller]

And the fact that Dan Osborne feels.

[Dan Osborne]

Like he has to run as an.

[Tim Miller]

Independent is one data point in that. We talk about that a little bit.

[Dan Osborne]

But a bigger data point for me.

[Tim Miller]

Is that here we are, July 31, coming up over what could very well be a good wave midterm for The Democrats a chance to maybe pick up seats in unexpected places. And where is the urgent campaign to recruit people that might have an actual chance in places like Ohio or Florida? Where is the effort to find some folks that can actually speak to Trump voters authentically and effectively in those states? Here's the thing. Those people will have opinions that I don't like. I'm like a cultural lib, right? I hate Donald Trump.

[Dan Osborne]

I hate, I resent a lot of Donald Trump voters.

[Tim Miller]

That's why I'm not running for Senate in Louisiana. Okay? I also don't want to run for office, but, like, I would not be a good Senate candidate for Louisiana if there was somebody like me. You know, if a clone of me decided that they wanted to run in one of these other states, I'll come on this podcast and say, that is very fucking stupid. A Tim Miller type candidate should not run for Senate in Utah or Ohio or Florida. Like, somebody that runs for Senate in Utah or Ohio or Florida, like, needs to be able to appeal at some level to people that voted for Donald Trump. He's going to share some of their cultural resentments. I think they've got to be mad at some level at the Democratic establishment. And the Democratic party has a 30% approval rating. 30% approval rating. Imagine what the Democratic Party's approval rating is in Ohio or Texas. You're going to run a candidate in one of those states that thinks that the Democratic Party is great, that everything that they're doing is great. What's the point? Why even try? Why even try? You know, it'd be like somebody going into the NFL in the year 2025 and being like, we're going to, you know, we're going to run the T bone. Like we're going to go back and do smash mouth, you know, up the middle, off tackle right, off tackle left. Run the less miles offense. Like, it doesn't, like it doesn't make any sense. The rules of the game, we know what they are. And if the Democrats ever have a prayer to do anything to advance any progressive agenda items, to do anything to roll back the authoritarian overreach, to do anything to check Trump to win the Senate, they've got to win in these states. And I just, you hear some people talking about this. I had Matt Iglesias on to talk about this couple weeks ago. When I'm in these Democratic circles, I just, I hear a lot of talk about urgent crises and things that they're worried about related to Donald Trump and his threats to democracy. But I don't hear a lot about this. And so I'm just trying to do.

[Dan Osborne]

What I can to try to elevate this and maybe draw attention to it in a way that will spur some action from people.

[Tim Miller]

Because running a generic Democrat candidate in.

[Dan Osborne]

These places is a loser.

[Tim Miller]

Again, you can't see the future. Maybe there's somebody who's particularly aspiring and great. There's a lot of people who are particularly aspiring and great that I love. I just heard that Beto is going to be here coming up on August 7th in New Orleans. So I'm going to go hang out with him. And if you're in New Orleans or the area, come check him out. He's going to be at Howlin Wolf. Beto is a pretty traditional Democrat ideologically. There's James Teralikos, seems like a pretty traditional Democrat. Colin seems like a pretty traditional Democrat. All of them are pretty compelling and they have compelling stories in their own way. Maybe that could work in Texas. Maybe if the economy goes terrible, that could work. I'm not saying that it can't, but could we try somebody else into one of these other states? Could we try somebody that has an answer to the question what are you upset with about the Democratic leadership? And they have an answer because 63% of the country is mad at the Democratic Party. So we should probably find somebody to run in red states that can authentically talk about what makes them upset when.

[Dan Osborne]

It comes to the Democrats. And maybe they can authentically talk about something that would give them an area where they could bond with a Trump voter over a shared issue or a shared grievance or a shared resentment.

[Tim Miller]

It's not ideal. It's not great. I don't think I share very many resentments with Donald Trump voters in Shreveport, but I also am not wanting to.

[Dan Osborne]

Win voters in Shreveport. I think that the Democrats should try to find somebody who can do that in these states or someone who's an independent minded person should offer themselves to do it.

[Tim Miller]

Because if not, you know, the best case scenario you have here is winning.

[Dan Osborne]

The House, barely 50, 50 Senate, running down the who knows what happens to Donald Trump in 2028.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, it's a dangerous game everybody's playing. So Dan Osborne's always trying something different. I appreciate that.

[Dan Osborne]

Happy to have him on the podcast. We'll be interested to hear what you guys think about what he has to say.

[Tim Miller]

He's up next. I'm out in California for a brief little family vacay, but we'll still be.

[Dan Osborne]

Doing the podcast for California Monday and Tuesday, and then I'll be back home on Wednesday. So I hope you guys are enjoying.

[Tim Miller]

Your a little summer weekend. Get out to the beach or the pool or have a barbecue or just read a book, rest and we'll see you back here on Monday.

[Dan Osborne]

Enjoy. Dan Osborne.

[Podcast Host]

Foreign.

[Tim Miller]

Welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Excited to welcome an independent candidate for Senate in Nebraska. He's a steam fitter and former president of the Bakery workers Union in Omaha. He's also a Navy vet and was member of the Nebraska Army National Guard. He announced earlier this month that he's running against billionaire nepo adult Pete Ricketts.

[Dan Osborne]

For the United States Senate.

[Tim Miller]

It's Dan Osborne. What's up, man?

[Dan Osborne]

Hey. Not much. Just got off work. I'm happy to be here with you guys.

[Tim Miller]

I love this garage that you're in. I was like, we over on FYpod, we had Jack Slosberg in his van.

[Dan Osborne]

Which is kind of a very, you know, millennial hipster vibe.

[Tim Miller]

But like, you, you look like this.

[Dan Osborne]

Garage gets a little bit of work. I don't know. You got an eagle?

It sure does. Yeah. This is a Firebird there. 88.

What are you doing on the Firebird?

Oh, well, I can, I can show you here. We're putting in a V8 over there. We're rebuilding that engine, my son and I, and then we're gonna drop a 350v8 in it.

[Tim Miller]

I wish I could ask follow up.

[Dan Osborne]

Questions on that, but I can. I can barely. I can't even really change the oil in my car. So, you know, it takes a. It takes a village. You know, everybody needs to have different skills here.

YouTube is like, you know, the father nobody ever had. Just watch YouTube videos. You can do anything.

That is true.

[Tim Miller]

That is true.

[Dan Osborne]

Well, my actual father was disappointed in my lack of ability to work on cars, but, you know, we've reached an equilibrium in adulthood.

[Tim Miller]

I want to ask about you, man. I got to tell you, I know more about you as like this caricature of a person that exists online as.

[Dan Osborne]

You know, and whatever. An independent populist than I actually do like about your real life.

[Tim Miller]

So I'm curious and I gave a.

[Dan Osborne]

Little bit of your bio there. If you give us a little penny tour of like, how. How your life ended up in this place where you're. Where you're running for Senate.

Yeah, sure. Well, you know, I haven't always been political person. I've spent, you know, 20 years. You mentioned BCTGM. We landed under the Grain Millers, not bakery, so.

[Tim Miller]

Well, just as a quick aside, we.

[Dan Osborne]

Should do this head.

[Tim Miller]

It's the bakery Confectionary Tobacco Workers and.

[Dan Osborne]

Grain Millers International Union.

[Tim Miller]

How did, like, Willy Wonka and Philip.

[Dan Osborne]

Morris workers, like, sort of join forces there?

[Tim Miller]

What's the through line?

[Dan Osborne]

Yeah, it's been ongoing throughout history. There's been a lot of mergers that, you know, they figured that they would benefit from each other's company over the years, so that's how it ended up to be that way.

I'd like to see that hangout between the tobacco workers and the confectionery employees.

Yeah. Hey, I think. I don't know. I only do one of those, and that's the confectionary part. So I've hung up the tobacco years and years ago.

Okay. What kind of tobacco were you doing before you hung it up years and years ago?

Oh, I was a baseball player, so I liked the chewing tobacco.

Yep, the Zins are in right now. What do you know about Zins? You know anything?

Yeah, I see people doing them. I don't get it.

What about regulation? You want to run for Senate? Where are you on government regulation of Zinn?

Oh, stuff like that. I'm not concerned. I think that's government overreach, personally. I think that falls into communities and parents raising their kids and schools. I think education is the key when it comes to that, actually.

All right, anyway, we got distracted. We went down the bakery confectionary route. So anyway, you're working with the union. Let's go back to your story.

Yeah, yeah. I worked there for 20 years. I worked my way up in the union ranks. I was an industrial mechanic there. And then I ran for president. You know, similarly, why I'm running for the United States Senate. I saw a need for leadership in our union. You know, we were starting to lose on some contracts while the company was remaining profitable. So I wanted to put my name in the ring. I got elected, and I was president for about two years before the strike happened. And, you know, the strike is really what got me into politics and thinking about and seeing and realizing my world around me in a different way than I previously didn't know. And so I suppose we got to back up a little bit. During COVID is really was the precursor to all that. We were working seven days a week, 12 hours a day during that time as essential workers. In fact, about 50% of our workforce was forced quarantine and or sick for American manufacturing plants around the country under the umbrella of the Master we were all working those hours. So 12 hours a day that entire year, we made them a ton of money. They went from 19 billion to $21 billion in this profit. The CEO gave himself a $2 million raise. The board enriched themselves and the stockholders enriched themselves. And we got a coffee cup that said essential workers on it. That's a nice, very nice cup. But you know, our contract expired that year. And as president, I figured it was going to be a no brainer, right? We'd get a little sliver of the pie. Instead, they sat across the negotiating table from us and they said, we're going to take your health insurance, we're going to take your cost of living wage adjustment, which is our only form of wage increases designed to keep us even with inflation. We know how that's going. And then we're going to implement a two tier wage system with no path for a lower tier employee to move up into the upper tier. It's a, it's a way to divide your workforce. Very union busting tactics. That was kind of an oh shit moment for me. There hadn't been a strike in Nebraska since 1972, and I never thought about it before that. So I learned how to pick it, why we pick it, had to learn everything about it and contacting police and fire ahead of, you know, the strike. And so when midnight October 5th rolled around, 2021, we shut down four North American plants and we walked off the job to preserve our wages and benefits. Certainly one of the hardest things I've ever had to do is take 500 of my friends and their families, 1500 nationwide, and shut these plants down, walk off the job not knowing if we're going to have a job at the end of it. But we all felt we were on the right side of history. And you know, that was my first introduction into politics because I knew politics were going to play a part. And I figured Democrats were going to show up to the picket line in support of us, and they did. But I was able to get our governor and a Republican congressman out to the picket line to show support, to put added pressure on Kellogg's. And you know, we, we ended up being on strike for 77 days and we settled just before Christmas. And I remember walking back in my plant after that feeling an enormous sense of pride. What we were all able to accomplish when we, when we stood together out on that picket line, because there's no, there's no Democrats or Republicans or, or black or white or men or women. It's, it's Just people want to work. And that's. That's. It gave me a newfound appreciation for unions and people standing together for a cause.

[Tim Miller]

Was Pete Ricketts one of the Republicans that was out there?

[Dan Osborne]

He was the governor at the time. He drafted a letter.

[Tim Miller]

That's interesting.

[Dan Osborne]

I went to the. Yep. I went out to the Capitol. I met with his team, and I didn't meet with him, but I met with his team, and he ended up drafting a letter and sending it to the CEO, Steve Cahalane, imploring him to get our people back to work. So thank you for doing that, P. Ricketts.

[Tim Miller]

The strike story is interesting to me, hearing you tell that origin, because there's a conventional wisdom of people looking back.

[Dan Osborne]

On Covid now, and the reflection is that we did too much to try to stem the tide of COVID that there were too many restrictions, et cetera, and that it was a burden on people with desk jobs that had too many restrictions on their lives, and the government intervened too much. And your story is that there's this burden on people that were doing real work on the front lines, who were getting sick, who were having to work extra hours. You don't hear that story a lot. When you think back on Covid, how do you, looking back on it, feel like political leaders did kind of managing that pandemic?

Yeah. When we were going through it, I remember walking through Walmart and looking down and seeing the arrows that I have to walk a specific way in an aisle. And, you know, they had everybody to try to separate everybody, and then masks turned into Republican versus Democrat. If you were wearing a mask, you were a Democrat, and if you weren't wearing a mask, you were, you know, a proud Republican. And I was like, this is absolutely ridiculous because my dad got sick and it almost killed him.

Yeah.

But he. He squeaked through it and he beat it. But, you know, the fact of the matter is there were people dying and there were people getting very, very sick. Were there some overreactions? Yeah, there were. But the way I see it is it was people were just trying to do the right thing during that time. You know, as far as CDC and stuff like that goes, I don't think it was this vast conspiracy to see how much they can try to control people. I think ultimately their goal was to keep people safe. And so they reacted. And, you know, we all lived through it. Well, I guess not all of us, but you and I did.

Yeah.

And to be able to talk about it, and it was a hell of an experience. And it Certainly changed a lot of people's lives.

I'm interested in your political evolution and kind of the intro ad to running. You talk about how your dad was a Republican county commissioner, but you, you know, like you said, you weren't really very political through much of your life. You know, you lived through Bush years in Iraq and all that, and Obama. I'm just kind of wondering how, you know, where your political antenna has been over the last couple decades.

Yeah, the very first thing I remember about politics was my dad got me a George Bush senior mask for Halloween. And I went trick or treating as George Bush and doors were getting slammed in my face and I had no idea why. I was just trying to get some candy and I had to ask my dad, you know, why were people mad at my Halloween costume? And I really don't remember his answer. I'm sure I just needed to get to my candy, but, you know, so I suppose we've always had a level of division in this country when it comes to our political views. But I think know I've been a registered independent from the time I could vote. I never really bought into the two party system because the way I see it is, you know, I don't see a lot of them actively working for the people. I see a lot of fighting. I see a lot of money exchanging hands between very wealthy donors, multinational corporations and special interests that it's hard to argue that they're not really the ones pulling the strings of these politicians. So we don't take corporate money. If I can't relate it back to working people, I don't take the money.

So your dad was what, like, what kind of family was it growing up? Your dad was a George Bush fan, but was he?

Yeah, my dad was. He was pretty strict military style. My grandfather is retired Navy, my dad was Navy, my uncle was Navy. I ended up being Navy. My brother joined the Marine Corps. So we don't talk to him anymore. We don't even know where he's at. I'm just kidding. We do.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Dan Osborne]

But no. So it was very strict. You know, you get the belt when you mess up. You know, I never crossed my dad, but he was the same guy that would give his shirt off his own back, you know, for his kids. He worked hard for us and tried to instill discipline and values in us. And it's stuck with me today. And I don't raise my kids the exact same way, but you know, I still tried to install values. You know, if, if you do something wrong, there's repercussions for it, right? For every action there's a negative or positive reaction and kids need to understand that at a pretty early age. So I feel like he was a positive role model in my life and him and my mom are still together, which is pretty rare these days, you know. And I'm still together with my wife after 24 years, so I think a lot of that rubbed off on me.

[Tim Miller]

What does he think about those tats?

[Dan Osborne]

He makes fun of me. He makes fun of me for it. But that's okay.

Everybody's got to have a rebellious side.

[Tim Miller]

Everybody's looking for a plan for keeping.

[Dan Osborne]

Alert, Staying Fresh in the afternoon after.

[Tim Miller]

Lunch as longtime listeners will know, I do a Mimi nap taken after my grandmother where I try to get 10 minutes, just like 8 minutes or 10.

[Dan Osborne]

Minutes in the middle of the day. But sometimes my content obligations or my parenting obligations don't allow for and the.

[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

You know this is a lib pod. Now once we're talking about Chaga and Reishi.

[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

I hear you've been independent your whole life, but looking at the politics that we're at today, what is it at the Democratic Party that's unappealing to you? Where do you see yourself as separate from, like, a generic Democratic candidate?

I don't hang my hat on social issues. To me, being able to help the most amount of people is uplifting them economically. So you don't have to worry about whether where your next meal is going to come from or where you're going to be able to pay your rent or if you're going to have to put Christmas on a credit card this year. So that actually would free you up to worry about the social issues aspect of, of people's lives. And, you know, you don't hear a lot of Democrats going around talking about supporting the small family farms and ranches and this in Main Street Nebraska or Main street usa, and uplifting mom and pop shops, making it an even playing field for them to stay open. Now they're having to compete with dollar Generals. And there's a dollar General at the end or beginning of every Main street in Nebraska. I started taking pictures of them. At first it was a joke. And then I realized what was going on. I was like, oh, man, this is. This is crazy. They're horrible employers. They got crap food for people to eat, and mom and pop shops are boarded up because of it. So these are the problems that, you know, when I'm going out, I did 200 events in 24. Hopefully I can do 250 this time. These are the things we talk about. I like talking about, right to repair. If you own something, you should be able to repair it. This is John Deere, but this is spilled over into our lives, too, with cell phones and vehicles. They're wanting to microchip car parts, so you have to get it from the oem. You know, like, it's, it's just getting ridiculous. And those are the things that I like to talk about. So I think that's the fundamental difference.

I should have mentioned at the start. You, you ran against Deb Fisher last time as an independent in Nebraska, lost that race by about, what, six and a half points, basically. And the Vice president lost to Trump by 20. So a huge gap of people that were voting for you and for Trump.

[Tim Miller]

And so I wonder, when you're out.

[Dan Osborne]

There doing those 240 events, you're talking to an average Trump voter. We're going to do a little stereotyping here. I know you're not supposed to do that, but I want you to imagine a stereotypical Trump voter in your head somewhere in rural Nebraska. And I want you to imagine kind of a stereotypical hipster in Omaha that was voting for Kamala Harris. On what issues are you connecting with them more than the Democratic voter?

My paycheck, I think it's pretty simple. I connect with working folks because I get a paycheck every week. Punch a clock, you get a paycheck. You know how much money comes in, you know how much money goes out. And life is getting harder. I'm feeling the squeeze in my own personal life, my own personal finances. My kids are worried about being a homeowner. I mean, I think the average age for your first time homeowners, like 38 years old. That's disgusting. You know, these kids are worried that they're not going to get a fair shake in life. I'm worried for them, too. So when it comes to talking with people and relating with people, I can take most issues and relate it back to somebody's paycheck, whether that's healthcare or childcare. There's so many things that affect our pocketbook, and we live in a very abundant nation, and I think there's enough here for everybody to be able to live comfortably.

[Tim Miller]

What about the substance? I mean, a lot of Democrats, I think, could have said that they would agree on economic issues, on the substance of the social issues, whether it be.

[Dan Osborne]

I don't know, transports or the border or guns.

[Tim Miller]

Are there any of those issues that.

[Dan Osborne]

You feel like, you know, you're more in step with what Republicans and the state are advocating for than the other side?

Yeah, I think without a border, we don't have a country. I do like what I see with the border crossings becoming rare, but at the flip side of that, you know, we're seeing factories get raided, meat cutters get raided. We're seeing people not showing up to work at restaurants. We are seeing business owners get hurt by this immigration policy. So the economic conservative side of me is extremely worried about that, and I think that's what immigration is doing, so. But we haven't had really any kind of meaningful immigration reform since I've been alive. I remember watching George Bush and Ronald Reagan have a debate about the exact same thing that we talk about today. Nothing's really changed.

It's like in black and white practically, that debate. The quality of the TV video is so bad.

So you got to ask yourself, why? Right? Why? Why is that? And you know, if this has been a problem forever, why is it? Well, I think it's the corporations. I mean, we have a monopoly in this state of meat packers. They've split the state up into quadrants. And those are the ones that benefit from exploiting labor, paying them next to nothing, enriching themselves. And they're the ones who can afford to bankroll campaigns. And politicians look the other way because they know they want to get reelected. If you want to continue working in DC, you got to play their game. And that's what I represent. And this is Democrats and Republicans doing this. And I don't want any part of that. I want to go back to the way the framers of this constitution intended this country to be. Government buying for the people. They warned us of the two factions and where it can lead. And here we are. So I want to give the government back to the people.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it's kind of interesting listening to you talk and I was reading some of your stuff. It feels like your view of all this, your critique, is a lot of.

[Dan Osborne]

Just the dysfunction in the process of the two party system as much as it is an ideological one.

[Tim Miller]

And some people say they're an independent.

[Dan Osborne]

Because they're like, well, I don't know.

[Tim Miller]

I'm conservative on social issues and liberal.

[Dan Osborne]

On economic issues or the other way around. And so I'm an independent because I don't fit in either camp.

[Tim Miller]

But your critique of both games feels.

[Dan Osborne]

A lot more like it's about just kind of the insider games, the corruption, the fact that these parties aren't actually looking out for anybody. And that process, as much as it is a critique of the merits of the ideology.

[Tim Miller]

Is that fair? Does that sound right to you or no?

[Dan Osborne]

Yeah, yeah. It has become a bit of tribalism. Right. Like my team and. And as an outsider and just as a regular citizen looking in, it appears to me that they, either side, didn't want either side to have a win and they will fight tooth and nail. And every single thing in our lives has to become political and you have to take a side one way or another. I know I mentioned the masks in Covid became so political. Everything just becomes so political and you have to choose these sides and then we fight. I mean, truly, that breaks my heart to see that in the country and to see families getting divided. I know people that are so anti Trump that they won't talk to any members of their family that are pro Trump or vice versa. And I just hate seeing that. And what I did in 24, you could drive and you mentioned I got a good percentage of the Trump vote in Nebraska, you could drive down and you would see an Osborne sign next to a Trump sign. And in the same small town, maybe on the other side, you'd see one next to a Harris sign. So I felt like I was bringing people together. That made me feel great. And that's why we want to continue with that momentum and continue making a difference.

[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

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[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

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[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

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[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

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[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

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[Tim Miller]

But that's not true for some people. And I shouted out one of my buddies who has thinning hair the last.

[Dan Osborne]

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[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

A very positive review from him personally.

[Tim Miller]

Not of the One Skin.

[Dan Osborne]

He hasn't used it yet. I didn't get a positive review for him trying to just peacefully walk through Reagan airport without learning that his hair loss was being projected out to the many dedicated Bulwark listeners.

[Tim Miller]

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[Dan Osborne]

On this podcast and I said I think the Democrats should listen to Tucker here and I'm not going to play the whole three minutes for people. I'll put a link in the show notes people want to go watch it. And frankly, I think people should watch the entire Tucker Carlson speech at Turning Point usa. There's a handful of gross stuff in there and some stupid talking points. But on a number of issues, he is speaking colloquially about the problems.

Ooh, say that again.

He's speaking like a normal guy about the problems that people are facing in the country. Here I am fucking complimenting him for speaking like a normal guy using the word colloquially.

[Tim Miller]

Anyway, he's speaking like a normal guy about the problem. And the clip you shared was about housing costs. Talk about just that issue.

[Dan Osborne]

And whether you think there are things that can be learned, if you will, from the populist. Right. Even if they have some other views that are pretty gross.

A good idea is a good idea. It really shouldn't matter where it comes from. Josh Hawley's got a good idea. A bill on the the floor that they shouldn't be able to trade stocks. I mean that's a, that's a no brainer. And Elizabeth Warren is a champion for right to repair. Like I said, a good idea is a good idea. And you know, talking about the housing market, I mentioned it earlier with the age is 38 now for first time homebuyers and venture capitalists buying up single family homes, apartment buildings, nursing homes and turning them for a profit. I got a problem with that. And so I would pair up with anybody who wants to be a champion for these ideas. Again, that's going to make it easier for everyday Americans Slaving away at their jobs to make their life a little bit better. Homeownership is. I mean, that's the first stages of being independently wealthy.

I want to move to the Trump administration. You mentioned the immigration stuff, which is probably what pisses me off the most about the Trump administration that I've seen so far. Just the raids, the masks, agents, grabbing people off the street, taking people that have not broken any laws, even immigration laws. They've been taking people that actually did came in the right way, but they've had their status taken away from them and sending them into cells. That's what's made me the most mad. What's made you the most mad about the Trump administration?

[Tim Miller]

The first seven months?

[Dan Osborne]

Yeah. You know, I would. I would have to point to that as well. You know, I mentioned that it's hurting businesses, but it's also. It's not humanly decent. What we're seeing, you know, unmarked, masked people pulling people off the street that aren't criminals and not giving them due process. The due process is American as baseball and apple pieces. That's one of the fundamental rights of standing on this land and to take that away from people that are here to make a better life for themselves. Is immigration broken? Yeah, we talked about that earlier. It is totally broken. And this is a Congress issue that they need to fix it. What we're seeing now is it's really hard to watch. And I get that people have to be deported. Every administration has done that. Right. We have taken people that are here unlawfully and we've removed them. Joe Biden failed on the border, and now, you know, we have this problem. But what I really hate to see is the celebration of it. It's turning Alligator Alcatraz into T shirts and merchandise that you sell, and people celebrate it, and people, you know, bringing chainsaws on stage, celebrating that hundreds of thousands of people just lost their jobs. And, you know, this is. This is what I have a hard time watching with.

[Tim Miller]

So you're talking about when you're going around Nebraska, you're talking to Trump voters.

[Dan Osborne]

And the thing that resonates with them that you can connect on is your paycheck and on these economic issues. The thing that I struggle with is I get why working class people might feel like the Democratic Party is not in touch with their concerns.

[Tim Miller]

I understand why they feel that way. It's harder for me to understand why they think Donald Trump is in touch with their concerns. And if you just look at what.

[Dan Osborne]

They'Ve done with the bill, the Tax.

[Tim Miller]

Bill in Congress, the fact that he's.

[Dan Osborne]

Enriching himself with crypto, the fact he's got billionaires all around him. To me, he seems, like, totally phony in that regard.

[Tim Miller]

You're talking to Trump voters more than.

[Dan Osborne]

I am these days. Why do you think that that isn't breaking through? Do you think that there's any possibility that his hold on that might change?

That's a great question. I mean, I guess I don't, I don't know. I think, you know, I have talked to people that have had a change of heart, I suppose, or feel like they've been sold a bill of goods and they are no longer in support of the administration. Or, or maybe they're just, you know, outwardly critical of it, which we should all be able to be critical of any administration. That's our right as American. I mean, you say one thing on social media, oh, my gosh, keyboard cowboys come out of the woodwork to, to try to ruin your day. But, yeah, I speak to people all the time. But I also speak to people that say, hey, he's still, he's, he's the art of the deal, right? You know, he knows what he's doing, he's made his fortune. And they still like the fact that he's not a standard politician. He just says what he thinks. And people tend to like that. But people tend to like the alpha male esque aura of Donald Trump.

[Tim Miller]

Do you think he's an alpha male? Do you see Donald Trump as an alpha male?

[Dan Osborne]

I said people think that he is an alpha male. I don't know what I think an alpha male is. Is somebody who takes care of their family and puts their family first and puts other people before them. I think that's what a true alpha male is. But, you know, I go through Nebraska and there's still a lot of Trump signs up in Barnes. And, you know, because a lot of people still agree, maybe they don't necessarily like mass men showing up and pulling people off the street or showing up at immigration appointments and, and taking people and separating children from their families, but they, they still are anti illegal immigration, and so they still like what they're seeing. I don't know. You know, I have, I have neighbors around here that are Trump supporters and, you know, they feel like economically his tariffs are going to get America ahead and economically.

So what do you think about the tariffs?

Well, I think targeted tariffs have, you know, uplifted American workers. I mean, you know, Ford and Chevy and Dodge still have the market cornered on full size trucks. And you know, you could argue that tariffs are, we're a part of keeping them that way because the other Japanese automakers haven't really been able to compete in that market. So there are times where targeted tariffs, but blanket tariffs and tariffs on our closest trading partners, Canada and Mexico and now Brazil. I like my coffee and don't mess with my coffee.

[Tim Miller]

I had Mark Cuban on a couple weeks ago and he was saying that.

[Dan Osborne]

He doesn't think the tariffs will really make that big of a difference for the big corporations with maybe a couple specific industry exceptions, but that the problems are going to be on the main street that you were talking about before and that it's this weird inverse where people think tariffs is this populist thing that helps workers, but actually it's going to create more problems in places like Nebraska. What'd you think of that?

Well, they're going to hurt our farmers. You know, they did that in 2016, right, with the, with the tariffs with the soybeans. We didn't have anybody to sell our soybeans to, so we had to bail out the farmers. So we know, you know, in that regards they don't work. And I think we're, we're heading to half a bailout our farmers again. And now USAID being shut down is going to hurt our farmers that are selling those crops overseas. If you don't have anybody to sell it to, that's certainly problematic. I work at a place called Grunwald Mechanical and all of our water heaters and hydronic valves and everything have gone up anywhere from 15 to 25% due to tariffs. So I know firsthand that it gets passed down to the consumer because the small businesses can't take that level of hit and still remain profitable and still keep their doors open. So you pass it down to the consumer, you pass it down to your customer. And so we're paying more for stuff, plain and simple. So it's hard for anybody to tell me tariffs aren't a tax on the people here in this country, which I absolutely believe they are, because I see it.

[Tim Miller]

Just real quick.

[Dan Osborne]

I mean, these are obviously complex issues. So I'm just trying to get a general sense from your point of view because I haven't heard a ton from you on foreign policy stuff. Obviously that's part of the purview of the Senate. The Israel Gaza war and Russia, Ukraine war. Kind of thoughts on where we are now and what the US should be.

[Tim Miller]

Doing in those, in those situations.

[Dan Osborne]

The United States, you know, I think there's there's two sides that I see that are like the prevailing arguments and that's America first, don't help out anybody, keep everything here. But I, you know, what I see is innocent people getting killed. In Ukraine and in Gaza. We saw innocent people in Israel get killed. That October 7th attack was, was heinous. It was very difficult to watch. I believe Israel is, has a right for their existence to have, be their own state and they had the right to defend themselves. But what we're seeing now, what I see now is, is starving children, people getting shot to try to get food. That's, that's an atrocity. That's, that is, that is not the way I see humanity should be operating with each other. We all occupy this planet and we have to figure out ways to coexist with each other. And the United States is uniquely positioned in the world as a superpower to be able to intervene in these, whether that's through sanctions or, you know, with Israel holding back offensive munitions, things like that. So, you know, I would definitely take into consideration any ideas that's going to bring about peace and change in those regions. You know, I see it. There was a tornado that came, came through here last April and the entire community got together. People's houses were destroyed. People went to Walmart or Lowe's or Home Depot and bought wood and help people. We were just helping people rebuild their houses. And you know, that's what the world is like. But then you see that it's like man, human beings, it's such a dichotomy, right? Why do we hate each other and love each other so much at the same time? If we could figure out a way to drop 30,000 pound bombs that have food in it, that would be amazing too, right? This is, I don't know, human beings are a dichotomy. But with Russia and Ukraine, I think, I think supporting Ukraine is America first. You know, you see innocent people getting killed, you see a sovereign nation getting invaded by an aggressor. That's who we are. That's who we've always been, is we've always, you know, in World War II, we've always stuck up for the little guy and help prevent tyranny in the world.

[Tim Miller]

To expand on kind of what you're.

[Dan Osborne]

Saying there about Israel, I'm just curious obviously that this Bernie Sanders bill, you.

[Tim Miller]

Know, like, how do you balance what.

[Dan Osborne]

The US's role and responsibility is with regards to our ally Israel and maybe what kind of limits we should start to put on how we're helping them out.

Yeah, I think that we should definitely be taking that into consideration. They do have a right to defend themselves. The Iron Dome. Look, I appreciate where they're geographically located in the world and the people around them would love to see their annihilation. And they are an ally. And I do believe that we should stick up for our allies, but I don't think we should be supplying munitions of war that are offensive in nature that's going to be killing women and children. That's pretty simple for me.

All right, we're running out of time.

[Tim Miller]

So rapid fire on a couple of them here. You're running against Pete Ricketts. I kind of forget that Pete Ricketts is in the Senate sometimes, so it's hard for me to make a case against him.

[Dan Osborne]

What's your elevator pitch about why Nebraska should get rid of Pete Ricketts?

Well, you know, I think you look back, he was a two term governor. He ruled this state like a mob boss with his money. You know, as a governor. Yeah. It's your job to try to lobby, you know, your lawmakers to try to get stuff through that. You need to get through the, what you see best for Nebraskans. He didn't, he didn't lobby people. What he would do is he would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in negative ad campaigns. He just got sued and lost $500,000 for a woman here in Nebraska. She ended up losing her husband, her business with his negative attack ads and his money. So he's left awake of very irritated conservatives and Democrats, you know, with his money. There was a flat water Free Press article that came out that said the ricketts had spent $90 million influencing Nebraska politics. So I think he embodies everything that's wrong with politics. You know, I, you know, when it was Fisher, it was, she would take money from corporate donors. Well, this guy is the corporate donor ultimately. So I don't know him personally. I have nothing against anybody personally in politics. But the way I see it is go live your life out on a beach, man. You have all that money, $380 million. Go enjoy it. Why do what you're doing. I don't understand that or help somebody.

My critique of it would be he's certainly not an independent, you know, an independent say you want about him, but like there's been no, not even a single moment where he said there's something that Donald Trump did wrong. And I like there's, you know, I.

[Tim Miller]

Guess maybe some people think that Donald.

[Dan Osborne]

Trump can do no wrong. But you would think that there'd at least be one issue where a US Senator might think, hey, the issue of Nebraska is more important than being doing the party line here. It never does that.

Yeah, the one that's in the forefront of the news now too. And Pete Ricketts is on the record. He's, you know, starting January is sex trafficking or human trafficking month. And you know, we want to highlight this issue. It's so wrong. It's the worst thing. It's the lowest humanity can get, which I agree with. And then asked about releasing the Epstein files and he said, that's not on our radar. We have all this other stuff we have to do. So it's, it's whenever it suits him.

Yeah, yeah, we got to do sex trafficking of Kids Awareness Month.

[Tim Miller]

But we're not going to expose any of the people involved in the biggest sex trafficking.

[Dan Osborne]

We don't want to throw them in jail.

[Tim Miller]

We don't want to get any of.

[Dan Osborne]

The guys involved in the biggest sex.

[Tim Miller]

Trafficking ring of elites that may have at some level encountered the President of the United States.

[Dan Osborne]

We're not going to talk about that one. We're going to do some other ones.

[Tim Miller]

All right. Just really quick to fun, rapid fire ones. You're an independent. So like we're trying to figure out who you think's done a good job. So the presidents. You're not. You can't go back to Lincoln. We're starting at Reagan. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden, Trump. I need your best and worst. Best and worst Reagan to Trump.

[Dan Osborne]

You killed. You killed my. I always say Woodrow Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt because they like to champion the antitrust and anti monopoly laws. Those are good.

[Tim Miller]

Roosevelt square deal. I think, I think that'd be a good model for you actually as well.

[Dan Osborne]

Independent of the Roosevelt square deal.

[Tim Miller]

That is a good answer and I will allow it. But you still have to answer the.

[Dan Osborne]

Question of best and worst of your lifetime, though.

[Tim Miller]

We gotta do it.

[Dan Osborne]

Best and worst.

Man, that's tough putting me on the spot like that.

It is tough.

[Tim Miller]

Well, I'll tell you, I was going through. I mean, I worked for Jeb, not George Bush. I was like, I'd love to say George Bush. I was like, it's hard to give any of the presidents of the 2000s anything better than like a C plus, but C plus is still better than F. Okay.

[Dan Osborne]

Well, I'll say economically, Bill Clinton was the best president. He finished his term with the surplus.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dan Osborne]

It's hard to argue that he knew what he was doing when it came to the economy. And I think one of the worst things that have happened, and this is coming from my world as being a union member, is Ronald Reagan with air traffic controllers and making it so public union sectors can't strike their employers. That has been devastating for workers.

[Tim Miller]

It's interesting.

[Dan Osborne]

I don't know if that's. If you'll accept those answers.

[Tim Miller]

All right. No, that's a good answer. All right, finally, final question, Final question. I hated Husker football growing up in Denver.

[Dan Osborne]

You know, Nebraska beat Colorado every damn year, my whole childhood. And Husker football's fallen on hard times. So I'm wondering if you have any solutions to that as an independent candidate.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. They have. They have fallen on hard times, but that was in the past, my friend. So we have Dylan Raiola now and five star recruitment. This is the second year. They are. I'm predicting four losses and a pretty predominant bowl game. And then. And then the next two years, we're going to be competitors for the national championship. So we're back.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, we're back. You're back. Nebraska is back. Huskers football is back. I don't know if start hating us.

[Dan Osborne]

Again, you can start hating us again.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it's been too sad to.

[Dan Osborne]

To dislike, you know, I've had to refocus on Bama in Texas. Horns down. All right.

[Tim Miller]

Dan Osborne, man, I appreciate the time coming back. Good luck on the campaign. I guess you're still.

[Dan Osborne]

You're still working, man.

[Tim Miller]

But once you get onto the campaign.

[Dan Osborne]

Trail, good luck at that and we'll be talking to you soon.

All right, thank you so much. I appreciate the interview and having me on.

[Tim Miller]

All right, everybody else, have a great weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday with Bill Crystal. Peace.

[Podcast Host]

Super thick chunks of broken life and reality at the dinner table Come to me I take about my friend my exit here I'm a road so long a million miles or so too much for me.

[AM/PM Advertiser]

I got to go.

[Podcast Host]

My navigator here.

[Tim Miller]

Man say it's nice this time of year.

[Podcast Host]

Last this time of year on Jupiter except for the meteor and Nebraska so flat that I don't care I never use his mouth. Have I made him clear? I don't know Jack but I stay sincere. Oh, my navigators here. Super thick chunks of broken light in the Milky Way you never know if they're burning bright then an I have a night half the day most the time sun burns bright all the time Then the winter come have a music I don't know, Jack, but I'll stay.

[Tim Miller]

The Borg podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.