The Bulwark Podcast: David French on Israel's Humanitarian Obligations

Episode Title: David French: Israel's Humanitarian Obligations
Host: Tim Miller
Release Date: July 29, 2025
Guests: David French, Opinion Columnist for The New York Times

1. Introduction and Recent Tragedies (00:00 - 04:29)

Tim Miller opens the episode by expressing condolences over a tragic mass shooting in Manhattan, where four individuals, including an immigrant police officer, lost their lives. The gunman cited Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) as a motive, targeting the NFL headquarters. Tim reflects on the diminishing moral panic surrounding CTE over the past decade, sharing a personal anecdote about a friend whose life was devastated by the condition.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller (01:48): "Sometimes you don't know what more you can say about these sort of things. ... But I had a friend from Colorado ... it’s really been a life ruiner for him."

David French responds by condemning the act as "absolute pure evil" and discusses the two-stage societal response to CTE—initial concern followed by an acceptance of risk akin to other contact sports. He emphasizes the moral implications of ignoring the severe consequences of CTE beyond just using it as a justification for such heinous crimes.

Notable Quote:

David French (02:50): "It's just absolute pure evil. ... You will create a lot of carnage."

2. Israel-Gaza Conflict and Humanitarian Obligations (04:29 - 14:24)

The conversation shifts to the ongoing Israel-Gaza conflict. Tim Miller references a tweet by David French, highlighting Israel's humanitarian responsibilities irrespective of Hamas's actions. He questions the sustainability of Israel's military strategies given the prolonged suffering in Gaza.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller (04:30): "Does Israel's humanitarian obligations ... lead to an endless round of unimaginable death and destruction."

David French draws parallels between Israel's strategy in Gaza and the U.S. military approach in Iraq. He critiques the "hit and run" tactics, likening them to the ineffective counterterrorism strategies that led to continuous conflict and civilian casualties. French advocates for a "clear hold and build" strategy, emphasizing the need for Israel to secure and stabilize Gaza to prevent perpetual conflict.

Notable Quote:

David French (05:15): "Israel’s failure to secure and provide for the Gazan population prolongs the war ... sort of a counterterrorist strategy ... endless, just endless."

Tim Miller echoes these sentiments, expressing frustration over the lack of a sustainable endgame and the resulting humanitarian crisis.

3. USAID Cuts and Christian Conservative Obligations (16:52 - 21:44)

Tim Miller introduces the topic of increasing global humanitarian issues, exacerbated by the U.S. government's reduction in USAID funding. He discusses bipartisan conflicts within the Senate over budget cuts affecting organizations like UNICEF.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller (16:52): "There’s an uptick throughout the world ... massive pictures and reports of dying children and lacking nutrition."

**David French analyzes the disconnect between fiscal policies and humanitarian obligations. He criticizes the Trump administration's manipulation of civic ignorance to justify budget cuts, highlighting the moral shortcomings of prioritizing deficit reduction over global welfare.

Notable Quote:

David French (18:03): "They take advantage of the fact that these numbers get so big ... cut the tiniest sliver of the budget that’s harming some of the most vulnerable people in the world."

When discussing the Christian conservative community's response, French notes that initiatives to address humanitarian concerns are hindered by internal political distractions, such as debates over transgender issues. He laments the prioritization of cultural battles over substantial humanitarian commitments.

Notable Quote:

David French (21:27): "Our international alliances. ... Team Red’s going to have an advantage in that."

4. The Epstein Saga and Trump Base (22:33 - 37:47)

The discussion moves to the Epstein scandal and its impact on political discourse. Tim Miller expresses frustration over the lack of coverage in David French's columns, highlighting his own deep engagement with the saga.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller (22:44): "I'm going to be centering the Epstein saga until we figure out who killed him."

David French characterizes the Epstein narrative as a catalyst for a "thinker’s QAnon," where credible criminal evidence intertwines with unfounded conspiracy theories. He points out that a significant portion of Trump's support stemmed from the belief that he would dismantle a global pedophile network, fostering deep-seated animosity towards perceived political opponents.

Notable Quote:

David French (24:01): "How many people were supporting Donald Trump for the principal reason that they believed that he was going to expose the global pedophile ring?"

French critiques the Trump administration and its allies for exploiting grand jury secrecy and promoting misinformation about the Department of Justice's (DOJ) capabilities to release incriminating evidence.

Notable Quote:

David French (26:27): "When I put all that out there, that's why I say what I would like to see is the maximum disclosure that is reasonable and lawful."

5. DOJ’s Handling of the Russia Investigation (37:47 - 43:20)

Tim Miller addresses concerns over the DOJ's integrity, especially in light of the Russia investigation. He references David French's previous critiques of the DOJ under different administrations.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller (31:02): "To me, it just looks like a total category difference. Like, unbelievable. Like just law, completely lawless and totally political all the way down."

David French agrees, likening the DOJ to a house with "rotting timbers" that requires substantial renovation rather than superficial fixes. He underscores the severity of the current DOJ's disarray, particularly regarding the handling of the Russia investigation and the resultant lack of trust in federal institutions.

Notable Quote:

David French (32:53): "The prior DOJ, there were some problems ... there’s a giant difference between the scale. It’s not just a degree in scale, it’s a difference in kind."

6. Perception of Justice in the DOJ: Breonna Taylor Case (49:36 - 56:51)

Tim Miller prompts David French to discuss his column on the Breonna Taylor case, emphasizing the DOJ's flawed intervention.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller (49:36): "Why don't you talk about the column a little bit?"

David French recounts the tragic 2020 raid that led to Breonna Taylor's death, highlighting the DOJ's attempt to offer minimal sentencing for the officer responsible for violating her civil rights. French criticizes this as a categorical perversion of justice, where systemic issues within law enforcement are ignored in favor of performative gestures.

Notable Quote:

David French (51:36): "The Trump administration ... is dead set on sort of undoing police reforms ... asking for a one day sentence ... categorical perversion of the purpose of the Civil Rights division."

He lauds the appointed judge for sentencing the officer to three years, seeing it as a small victory against systemic failures.

7. Evangelical Response to LGBT Representations: Chip and Joanna Gaines (55:33 - 65:22)

The conversation shifts to a controversy involving Chip and Joanna Gaines, Christian reality TV hosts, who featured a gay couple on their show about living without technology. This inclusion sparked backlash from evangelical communities expecting traditional Christian values.

Notable Quote:

David French (53:54): "This story is like ... hypocrisy."

Tim Miller and David French dissect the evangelical community's double standards—demanding traditional values while resisting genuine inclusivity. French criticizes the inability of religious communities to accommodate diversity without condemning dissenting views, leading to internal conflicts and alienation.

Notable Quote:

David French (56:51): "It is a perfect example of culture becoming a zero-sum game ... every interest group fighting to see who gets to dominate."

David French further elaborates on the moral rigidity within Christian circles, where abandoning a single progressive stance often leads to broader ethical compromises, undermining genuine moral leadership.

8. Backsliding of LGBT Rights and Evangelical Christianity’s Shift (60:56 - 65:22)

Tim Miller questions the current state of LGBT rights, observing a regression compared to past acceptance levels. He relates this to the backlash faced by Chip and Joanna Gaines, suggesting that societal acceptance may be waning.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller (63:45): "It seems like we passed peak acceptance ... moving to a worse place than we were 10 years ago."

David French concurs, noting a troubling trend where evangelical Christianity becomes more fundamentalist as it aligns closely with Donald Trump's ideologies. This alignment leads to heightened hostility towards LGBT individuals, exacerbating societal divisions.

Notable Quote:

David French (62:59): "Evangelical Christianity is becoming more fundamentalist ... it’s as if they’re giving up on some issues but clinging tenaciously to others."

He laments the prioritization of cultural battles over genuine moral and ethical progress, leading to increased malice and hostility within religious communities.

Conclusion

Throughout the episode, David French and Tim Miller engage in a comprehensive discussion covering critical issues such as the Israel-Gaza conflict, U.S. foreign policy, the integrity of the Department of Justice, and the evolving stance of evangelical Christianity on social issues. They critically evaluate the intersection of politics, morality, and societal obligations, offering insightful analysis into the challenges facing liberal democracy and the resurgence of fundamentalist ideologies within certain communities.

Final Notable Quote:

David French (65:10): "This seems to be the message that's being completely delivered by political Christianity right now. ... actual malice and, you know, an actual hatred."

For more in-depth analysis and continuous discussions on these pressing issues, listeners are encouraged to explore David French's columns in The New York Times and his co-hosting role in the legal podcast "Advisory Opinions."