The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: David French: Maybe the Tariffs Are the Problem
Date: September 5, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: David French (NYT columnist, Advisory Opinions podcast, Iraq War vet)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into recent developments in the U.S. economy, tariffs, and ongoing legal and cultural controversies. Tim Miller and David French analyze economic warning signs, unpack the legal wrangling over Trump’s tariffs, discuss the administration's use of military force in anti-drug operations, explore rising illiberal nationalist rhetoric, and debate cultural and generational parenting trends. French provides legal expertise, historical perspective, and a defense of liberal democracy throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. US Economic Warning Signs & Manufacturing Downturn

Timestamps: 01:37 – 04:35

• Job Growth Data: August payroll growth came in weak (22,000 jobs added vs. 75,000 expected), manufacturing jobs down 78,000 this year according to Blossom.
• Manufacturing Recession Concerns: French points out that, despite political rhetoric about reshoring, “if manufacturing investment is down, if manufacturing jobs are down, that’s some warning signs.” (02:16)
• Long-Term Economic Effects: French uses the “supertanker” analogy to emphasize the slow, complex effect of policy changes vs. the common speedboat analogy.

  “Don’t think of the US Economy as like a speedboat… Think of it like a supertanker… it doesn’t move really rapidly.” (02:57, French)

• Tariffs & AI: Short-term economic positives like AI investments are offsetting drag from Trump-era tariffs and other negative policy inputs.

2. Authoritarian Undercurrents & Personnel in Economic Agencies

Timestamps: 04:35 – 06:51

• Controversies around Personnel Changes: The firing of Erica McIntar and potential appointment of EJ Antony (accused of extreme online trolling, anti-gay remarks, possible Jan 6 involvement) raises concerns about integrity and authoritarian drift.
• French’s take:

  “When you just lift up the rock on any number of people, you’re going to find all of this unbelievable nonsense and latent authoritarianism and ridiculous trolling.” (06:25, French)

3. Interest Rate Politics & Fed Pressure

Timestamps: 06:51 – 08:58

• Trump Administration’s Aim: Pushing for lower rates to recreate a Trump-era “ocean of money” scenario, despite changed global conditions and high inflation risks.
• Lesson learned post-pandemic:

  “We can’t just be pouring money into the economy and expect to not have high inflation.” (07:36, French)

4. Legal Battle over Trump’s Tariffs

Timestamps: 08:58 – 16:14

• Recent Appeals Court Ruling: Declared Trump’s tariffs unlawful. Trump cites broad emergency powers under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) and is seeking an emergency Supreme Court hearing.
• French draws comparison to Biden’s student loan case:

  “If you remember the student loan forgiveness program… the Supreme Court said no… if you’re going to give the executive that much sweeping power, you got to do it clearly and unmistakably.” (11:10, French)

• Likelihood for Supreme Court: French says the legal distinction rests on emergency powers in foreign relations, but doubts this is enough to let the tariffs stand:

  “I don’t think so. I don’t think so. But we’ll see.” (11:38, French)

• Process Timeline: Expect a preliminary ruling within a few months on the emergency docket, with final decisions possibly in 2026.
• On preliminary injunctions:

  “Generally, the preliminary ruling on the merits matches what happens... I’m driving to the bank with a lot of confidence.” (15:33, French)

5. Use of Military Force Against ‘Narco Terrorists’

Timestamps: 18:58 – 27:21

• Controversial Bombing: US military action against a Venezuelan boat alleged to contain drug smugglers/human traffickers.
• Legal and Ethical Alarm:

  “Does that mean you have the power on your own authority to declare a gang to be terrorists and then execute them from the air on the basis of whatever shifting standard?” (19:17, French)

• ‘Positive Identification’ Misunderstood: French explains military lingo:

  “Positive ID… does not mean that you know something for certain… It means that the strike meets the conditions established under the rules of engagement.” (20:21, French)

• Potential Precedent for Domestic Military Force:

  “Now they appear to be saying that that terrorist designation unlocks military capabilities all on its own... That’s not what the statute gives the President the authority [for].” (22:22, French)

• Dangers for American Liberty:

  “What are we doing here, Tim? What are we doing here?” (24:48, French)

• Broader Context: Trump has expressed fantasies about using military force for domestic issues, emphasizing the risks of normalizing such actions.

6. Rhetorical Asymmetry and Rights

Timestamps: 27:21 – 30:16

• Political Tactics: Trump frames opponents as “pro-drug dealer” if they protest executive overreach.
• French draws parallels: If a Democratic Trump, for gun reform, enacted draconian executive action, the right would explode, but Trump gets away with it.
• On responses to gun violence: Red flag laws and moderate proposals met with extremist scorn (“commie mommies”) even from victims’ parents.

7. Trans Rights and Gun Laws

Timestamps: 30:16 – 35:45

• Rumored DOJ Policy: Possible plan to ban gun ownership for all transgender people, justified by claims of mental instability.
• French slams the idea:

  “Banning gun ownership for an entire class of Americans out of deep seated animus is grotesquely unconstitutional.” (31:43, French)

• Slippery Slope: Tim Miller points out the logical inconsistency in gun rights rhetoric if such a ban were allowed; French notes that targeting trans citizens could justify further bans against other groups.

8. Illiberal Nationalist ‘NatCon’ Rhetoric

Timestamps: 36:54 – 44:28

• Eric Schmidt’s Speech: Arkansas Senator argues for America as a nation defined by “stock” (Scots-Irish, German) rather than ideals — in opposition to “abstract” Founding ideals.
• French’s History Lesson:

  “The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights were not necessarily a reflection of the society that existed, but in many ways, a challenge to the society that existed.” (39:08, French)

• Madison Quote: “Offering an asylum to the persecuted and oppressed of every nation and religion…” (41:27, French)
• Dangers: French explains how Christian nationalism and blood/soil rhetoric distort American history and fundamental principles.

9. Right-Wing Praise for Putin

Timestamps: 45:48 – 49:19

• Tucker Carlson & Michael Knowles Praise Putin: Call him a better man and leader than Joe Biden.
• French rebuts:

  “Putin has been a war leader virtually since he assumed office... That’s not stability, Tim.” (47:25, French)
  “Russia is a gas station with an army and a nuclear arsenal... It is not a healthy society.” (48:23, French)

• Point: Such rhetoric isn’t about truth, but fanning hatred for Democrats and justifying any means for “their team.”

10. Faith in Politics & The Appeal of Left-Lane Christians

Timestamps: 51:14 – 54:53

• James Talarico (TX): Discussed as a possible state Democratic candidate; French doubts he appeals to the evangelical Republican base but might resonate with other Christians and Hispanics.
• Religious Voter Blocks: Trends among Pentecostal and Hispanic voters shifting allegiances, importance of messaging on faith, and Democratic struggles with male voters across ethnic backgrounds.

11. Generational Parenting and Anxiety

Timestamps: 57:13 – 65:11

• French’s NYT Column: Examines Gen X “latchkey” experiences leading to today’s overprotective “helicopter” parenting—a pendulum from neglect to over-involvement.

  “Independence without security can lead to abuse…security without any independence can lead to anxiety and failure to thrive. So there’s gotta be a Goldilocks solution.” (61:14, French)

• Tim’s Addendum: Social conformity among parents intensifies helicopter or “screenager” parenting; few want to be the outlier parent.
• Social Pressure: “Sort of the more close hold parents, the most helicoptery parents have an outsized effect.” (63:27, French)

Notable Quotes

• On Tariffs:

  “What should happen is that the Supreme Court should rule against these tariffs in much the same way and on much the same grounds that they ruled against the Biden administration’s student loan forgiveness program.” (09:59, French)

• On Military Force for Domestic Crime:

  “The American Constitution and American law does not give the President the authority to reclassify crime as, as military activity and then use military assets to go after it.” (22:22, French)

• On NatCon Rhetoric:

  “It’s just a staggering level of ignorance in service of bigotry is what a lot of this Christian nationalism is.” (44:12, French)

• On Putin Praise:

  “Normally we don’t look at decade plus of blood soaked violence and say, oh, look at all that stability.” (47:25, French)

• On Parenting Shifts:

  “Independence without security can lead to abuse…security without any independence can lead to anxiety and failure to thrive.” (61:14, French)

Memorable, Lighter Moments

• French’s “Presidential Flirtation”:

  “It was a flirtation. It was not. Never got off the ground. I still can’t believe that happened.” (01:14, French)

• Tim’s Self-Deprecation Re: Podcast Rankings:

  “I’m sad to report that that podcast is fifth in the rankings right now under news, and I’m eighth.” (46:40, Miller)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Economic warning signs & manufacturing jobs: 01:37–04:35
• Tariff legality debate & Supreme Court process: 08:58–16:14
• Military force on drug smugglers/human traffickers: 18:58–27:21
• National Conservatism & American identity: 36:54–44:28
• Putin as a ‘better leader’ discussion: 45:48–49:19
• Gen X parenting & helicopter parents: 57:13–65:11

Conclusion

This episode delivers wide-ranging, clear-eyed discussion—from economic warning signs and legal battles over tariffs to cultural anxieties, threats to liberal democracy, and generational shifts in parenting. French provides legal expertise, contextual humility, and a consistent warning against authoritarianism and bad faith arguments, advocating for a return to American founding ideals rooted in law and pluralism.

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