The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: "David French: Our State of National Shame"

Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: David French (New York Times columnist, co-host of Advisory Opinions podcast)

Overview

This episode features Tim Miller in conversation with David French as they dissect the state of American political and moral life under a second Trump administration. The discussion zeroes in on the normalization and escalation of cruelty and lawlessness—particularly regarding immigration policy, the erosion of institutional norms, and the complicity of political, religious, and legal actors. French also offers legal analysis and reform proposals to address the dangerous growth of federal impunity. The episode ends with a less-than-flattering look at “trad culture” and a tongue-in-cheek game about the Super Bowl halftime show.

Key Topics & Insights

1. The National Prayer Breakfast and Trump’s Authoritarianism

• Trump at the Prayer Breakfast: Tim recaps Trump mocking Thomas Massie, denigrating Biden, praising El Salvador's autocratic regime, and questioning the faith of Democrats.
• Religious Hypocrisy:
  • David French:

    "At some point, you just have to say, it's very clear. There's no line. He just keeps pushing further and further..." (04:29)

• Rustling in the Audience: A rare minor sign of disapproval from the religious right is noted—French sees it as the biggest pushback Trump’s gotten from conservative evangelicals in a decade. (04:03)

2. Racist Social Media Posts & Moral Compromise

• Trump's Racist Video: Trump posts a meme in which the Obamas appear as monkeys as part of a video attacking Democrats with animal metaphors.
• Defensive Responses: The White House excuses this as part of a broader “Lion King” parody.

• French’s Take:

  “He is just absolutely shoving your moral compromise in your face every single day. He's giving you no reasonable room at all to sort of wriggle out of it…” (09:43)

• Trump Support as Identity: French argues that continued support is more about shared loyalty and identity than principles:

  "It's almost part of your identity…with MAGA [politicians], there isn’t that same kind of personal loyalty." (12:38)

3. The Political Psychological Trap

• Democratic Response to Trump’s Racism: Miller wonders if Obama should be more vocal. French is skeptical about the real-world effect of ex-presidents speaking out, suggesting practical action is more important than statements. (16:03-19:56)

4. Congressional Abdication & Complicity

• Case Study: Sen. Katie Britt & Detention Policies
  • Miller outlines a NYT profile of Britt, torn between quiet back-channel dissent and public complicity in immigration abuses.
  • French’s perspectives:
    • Uncharitable:

      “You drive by 10, 15, 20 exits from Trumpism, and then finally you flip on the blinker...Why now? Why this?” (23:45)

    • Charitable:

      “Different things hit different people at different times...when the crack opens...come here, come on in.” (25:24)

  • Miller presses for real action over gesture:

    “I will welcome you. That's great. But don’t cry about how bad it is and then do nothing and want a pat on the back.” (27:11)

5. Immigration Cruelty & National Shame

• Brutality as Policy:
  • French:

    “The brutality is actually part of border control. Not enough people have focused on that—the brutality is part of deterrence.” (35:17)

• Civil vs. Criminal Misconceptions:
  • French notes that most detained immigrants haven’t committed crimes—illegal entry is a misdemeanor, overstayers haven’t even done that.

    “We're treating them in ways worse than we treat convicted felons.” (28:32)

• Historic Judgment:
  • “This is literally a moment your grandchildren will say, ‘How did we let this happen?’” (29:31)

6. Federal Abuses & Legal Reforms

• Example: A Pennsylvania man was investigated by DHS for sending a polite email supporting an immigrant—a level of surveillance “right out of a totalitarian society.” (38:22)
• Legal Proposal:
  • A simple fix: allow citizens to sue federal officers for civil rights violations just as they can sue state/local officers (42 U.S.C. § 1983, five-word fix).

  • “If you want to hold people accountable…apply the same standards to federal officers as to state/local…and that would be a massive legal reform.” (42:21)

• Impunity & Immunity:
  • French:

    “The federal government has become the primary threat to liberty…and because of the web of immunities it's created for itself, there’s no accountability.” (41:46)

• Republican Flip:
  • Previous GOP enthusiasm for government accountability has evaporated as the right has become agents rather than targets of overreach. (44:27-46:50)

7. Judicial Decisions & Institutional Rot

• SCOTUS & Trump Immunity:
  • French is strongly critical; the ruling is ambiguous and dangerous, especially regarding bribery:

    “Anytime you're going to read the decision and not really know…can you prosecute a president for bribery, then it's a poorly drafted decision.” (50:07)

• DOJ & Meritocracy Erosion:
  • Mass resignations of prosecutors, replacement by military lawyers and Trump loyalists, generational hollowing out. (53:37-56:17)
• Executive Damage:
  • Even if undone, much of Trump’s “vaporware” damage will have lasting institutional effects.

8. Trad Culture, Cruelty, and Post-Liberalism

• Scandals on the Right:
  • Recent “trad” scandals show that traditionalist rhetoric often masks cruelty and hypocrisy.

• French’s Critique:

  “A lot of this trad culture stuff is really libertine. When I say libertinism…I’m talking about how a lot of the new Christian right, even as they proclaim upholding core Christian values, really indulge in some really grotesque sins…cruelty is manifested in indulging your basest desires and then rationalizing and justifying.” (61:06)

  • “Civility and decency are not ‘second-order values’—you can't be really indecent or cruel just because you think the stakes are high enough.” (62:21)

9. Super Bowl & Religious Right Hypocrisy

• Franklin Graham Critiques Halftime Show:
  • French notes hypocrisy:

    “If you’re left-leaning and violate Christian morals, you’re unfit for power. If you're right-leaning and do the same, well, whose business is it?” (64:46)

• Satirical Game:
  • Tim Miller contrasts Kid Rock and Bad Bunny lyrics to highlight the absurd traditionalist claims.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Trump’s Religious Supporters:

  “I've been punking you this whole time to see how much you will debase yourself for access to power. What will you not overlook?”
  — David French (04:19)

• On Defensive Rhetoric:

  “It’s now a staffer’s job to explain that the National Prayer Breakfast is a prayer breakfast. You feel like you’re being punked…”
  — David French (06:22)

• On ‘Trad’ Cruelty:

  “A lot of this trad culture embodies the works of the flesh from Galatians 5: hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, and factions.”
  — David French (61:01)

• On the Moral Legacy of Detention:

  “I mean, Tim, this is literally a moment your grandchildren will say, how did we let this happen?”
  — David French (29:31)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic | |---|---| | 04:03 | Prayer breakfast, minor religious pushback | | 07:20 | Trump’s racist meme - White House defense | | 11:58 | “Trump support as identity” discussion | | 13:58 | State Senate flips, Trump vs. MAGA loyalty | | 23:36 | Katie Britt profile, questions of complicity | | 28:32 | Conditions & legal status in detention centers | | 35:17 | “Brutality is inseparable from the border strategy” | | 38:22 | DHS surveillance of “dissenters”—totalitarian tactics | | 42:21 | Legal proposal: Civil liability for fed. officers | | 50:07 | SCOTUS ruling on Trump immunity criticized | | 53:37 | DOJ exodus, declining meritocracy | | 61:01 | Trad culture, Galatians 5, cruelty on the right | | 64:46 | Franklin Graham’s selective morality | | 66:13 | Lyrics game—satire of trad values |

Overall Tone

• Serious and urgent in diagnosing democratic and moral backsliding
• Wry, occasionally dark humor ("You're being punked," "come here, I’ve got a casserole")
• Deeply critical of hypocrisy (especially on the right)
• Cautiously optimistic about the possibility for accountability and reform

Recommended Actions & Messages

• For Listeners:
  • Don’t become numb to normalization of cruelty in politics—even small pushback matters.
  • Welcome new defectors from MAGA/Trumpism without gatekeeping sincerity, but demand real action, not just words.
  • Recognize that institutional reforms—especially legal liability for federal officials—are crucial for restoring democratic accountability.
  • Beware traditionalist “culture war” rhetoric that masks or excuses cruelty.

This summary provides a comprehensive understanding of the episode’s key themes, insights, and memorable moments. It serves both as a reference and as an accessible entry point for those who haven’t listened.