The Bulwark Podcast
Episode: “David Frum: A Very Bad Time for Bozos to Be in Charge”
Date: March 20, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: David Frum (Staff Writer at The Atlantic, Host of The David Frum Podcast)
Episode Overview
In this wide-ranging and incisive conversation, Tim Miller and David Frum delve deeply into the latest political crises gripping the U.S., with a special focus on the Trump administration’s handling of the Iran war, U.S. homeland security, and America’s fraying relationships with key allies. The discussion is both sobering and laced with the show’s signature wit, as Frum and Miller explore the consequences of incompetence at the highest levels ("bozos in charge") during one of America’s most dangerous moments in decades.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Chuck Norris, Trumpism, and the Smallness of MAGA
[02:10–03:57]
- Tim Miller opens by referencing Chuck Norris’ passing and draws a playful comparison about the “smallness” (literal and metaphorical) of many Trump supporters.
- Quote (David Frum, 02:59):
“It is worth remembering how many of the Trump supporters like him, like Kash Patel, are extremely small people. And you were the first to point out this trend.”
2. The Trump Commemorative Coins: Substance vs. Image
[03:57–05:49]
- Discussion of the new Trump-minted coins as a symptom of Trump's obsession with the image of power over its substance.
- Frum argues that Trump’s gaudy authoritarian gestures backfire by galvanizing opposition.
- Quote (David Frum, 04:38):
“If you're doing a serious program of consolidation of power in an authoritarian way, you don't do something as gaudy and shameless and un-American as putting a living president's image on the coins. That just gets everybody upset.”
3. The DHS Mess: Bozos in Charge of National Security
[07:53–11:39]
- Both hosts express alarm at the appointment of unqualified loyalists (such as Markwayne Mullin, Kristi Noem, Kash Patel) to key homeland security roles amid intensifying threats from Iran.
- Frum provides historical context on the founding of DHS, emphasizing it was created to fix post-9/11 intelligence gaps, but now is being misused for political and immigration goals instead of public safety.
- Quote (David Frum, 08:44):
“How unserious about terrorism are you if you put this team of bozos in charge of defending the homeland against terror attacks?”
4. Democratic Strategy on DHS Funding During Wartime
[11:39–15:45]
- Miller and Frum evaluate the Democrats’ options in the ongoing DHS/ TSA budget fight. Frum urges Democrats to hold Trump accountable for leaving the U.S. vulnerable, but warns political leverage may be limited.
- They highlight the Republican counter-narrative: that any failure to fund DHS makes Democrats responsible for terror attacks.
- Quote (David Frum, 12:41):
“Democrats need to ask themselves if the tables were turned... what would the Republicans do?”
5. Energy Security Missteps and Lessons from the Russia-Ukraine War
[17:53–19:23]
- Frum draws comparisons to past U.S. responses (e.g., Biden’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve release in 2022), noting Trump’s failure to replenish reserves leaves the U.S. more vulnerable in this new crisis.
- Quote (David Frum, 18:41):
“Had it been topped up in 2025, the United States would be in a much better position...Why didn’t he stockpile?”
6. Breakdown in U.S. Alliances & The Greenland Crisis
[22:06–24:32]
- Frum recounts startling news: Denmark genuinely prepared to sacrifice troops in Greenland in case of an American invasion to shame the U.S.—a sign of collapsed trust with NATO allies.
- Quote (David Frum, 23:13):
“Their plan was to send their best soldiers to Greenland to die, to be killed... if the United States shed Danish blood, it would so shame the United States...” - The discussion expands on allies’ anxieties, especially in Asia, now facing higher oil prices due to the U.S.’ Iran war.
7. Shifting Global Alignments & Canada’s Strategic Distance
[26:28–29:32]
- Frum on Canada exploring more options with China and India, reflecting a new era where the U.S. is seen as just one of several unpredictable “superpower threats,” not the automatic benevolent partner.
- He recounts recent acts of foreign interference and “triangle of danger” calculus in Ottawa.
- Quote (David Frum, 26:51):
“It’s not that Canada is going to become a Chinese ally... but we have to have options in a way that Canadians never thought about optionality before...”
8. War in Iran: Military Success, Political Disaster
[31:45–33:46]
- Frum outlines the operations against Iran: U.S. and Israel making military headway, but at enormous political and economic cost.
- Quote (David Frum, 31:45):
“Military track is going much, much better than you would gather from following most conventional American opinion... [but] he has no permission from Congress. He has no certainty that Congress will fund his war. He has no permission from the public.”
9. Echoes of the Iraq War: No Planning for "The Day After"
[35:36–42:09]
- Both hosts see alarming parallels to 2003: lack of worst-case scenario planning, and no vision for postwar Iran.
- Frum dives into the difference between realpolitik and the naive wish that toppling a regime will leave a stable state behind.
- Quote (David Frum, 42:09):
“What is it going to take to keep order in Iran if you collapse the regime? It’s a country of 90 million...It needed many more armed people to keep order in that society than the United States had ever budgeted for or ever would budget for.”
10. Is Stopping the War Possible? Frum vs. The Peace Camp
[46:30–49:14]
- Tim confesses he's been radicalized by the unfolding debacle: “I just, I'm like, I think this is just a catastrophe of epic proportions... I just think economically, geopolitically, I don't see any possible good solution for Iran.”
- Frum draws a distinction between opposing the war before it started (he would have) and believing that, once unleashed, there’s a clean “stop the war” option now.
- Quote (David Frum, 47:39):
“Now it’s March 20th, the go button is pressed. What happens now? ... I don’t think it’s a meaningful answer to say stop the war because everything I’m worried about, we’re already on that path.”
11. The Unraveling of American Leadership
[51:23–54:18]
- Miller wonders if it’s time for true “America First,” i.e., disengagement from messy conflicts. Frum rebuts: global leadership is irreplaceable (unless you want China/India filling the vacuum), and America can’t “unpress” the war button regardless.
- Quote (David Frum, 52:02):
“The United States gets enormous benefits from being in charge of world safety. Because if the United States is not, either there won’t be world safety, or China and India will do it. And I don’t want to live in that planet...”
12. Israel’s Existential Threat—and the Antisemitism Surge
[56:55–64:11]
- Tim raises the dilemma: Israel’s actions shore up real security, but their alignment with Trump’s war heightens global antisemitism and political risk in the West.
- Frum carefully walks through the real motives for the U.S. strike on Iran (not an imminent threat, but an opportunity to degrade Iranian power), and contextualizes Israeli security calculus.
- Quote (David Frum, 58:36):
“The United States struck because Israeli action had made Iran so vulnerable... This was the moment to prevent it from becoming the next North Korea.” - On Israeli security choices:
Quote (David Frum, 62:30):
“There’s an Israeli peace and an American peace... Deep in the memory of every Israeli and friend of Israelis: if we rely on popularity to protect the Jewish people, thin reed...”
13. The Absurdity of Trumpism: The MMA Fight and Decline of American Symbols
[64:11–66:10]
- The closing segment skewers the spectacle of Trump moving the ‘big MMA fight’ to his birthday and turning sacred national moments into farce—with commemorative coins to boot.
- Quote (David Frum, 64:58):
“The 250th [anniversary] MMA fighting. It just sounds like the decline and fall of the American empire symbolized right there... President Trump in his rocky short pants and his fake six-pack abdominal muscles.”
Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps
- “It is worth remembering how many of the Trump supporters like him, like Kash Patel, are extremely small people.”
— David Frum, [02:59] - “If you're doing a serious program of consolidation of power... you don't do something as gaudy and shameless and un-American as putting a living president's image on the coins…”
— David Frum, [04:38] - “…how unserious about terrorism are you if you put this team of bozos in charge of defending the homeland against terror attacks?”
— David Frum, [08:44] - “I still believe in the mission of the United States. I still believe in the capacity of the United States... I want to live in that unipolar American led world order... and this is part of it.”
— David Frum, [52:20] - “Deep in the memory of every Israeli and friend of Israelis: if we rely on popularity to protect the Jewish people, thin reed, we’re never that popular and people will be sorry for us afterwards, but they won’t help us before.”
— David Frum, [62:30] - “The 250th MMA fighting... just sounds like the decline and fall of... empire symbolized right there. And a special badly executed commemorative coin, found at gas stations everywhere.”
— David Frum, [66:10]
Highlighted Timestamps
- [02:10] — Podcast proper begins with Chuck Norris/trump/MAGA reflection.
- [04:38] — Trump coins as authoritarian clowning.
- [08:44] — “Team of bozos” at DHS and FBI.
- [17:53] — Missed opportunity to build national energy security.
- [23:13] — Denmark’s grim Greenland plan.
- [31:45] — Military progress vs. political disaster in Iran war.
- [35:36] — “No plan for the day after” and the Iraq war mistakes.
- [47:39] — Frum’s stance: Can’t just “stop the war” now button is pressed.
- [52:20] — The value (and challenge) of American global leadership.
- [62:30] — Israel’s existential calculation and rejection of “popularity” as security.
- [66:10] — Trump’s MMA birthday brawl as an American symbol.
Tone & Style
- The episode combines bleak political analysis with bursts of gallows humor and dry wit, consistent with The Bulwark’s style.
- Frum is clear, historically grounded, sometimes mournful but never resigned. Miller interjects with skeptical, sometimes exasperated, counterpoints—probing for ways out of the current mess.
For Listeners: Takeaway Messages
- U.S. national security is in the hands of dangerously unqualified partisans, just as America faces its most complex international crisis in a generation.
- Trump-era decisions—often focused on optics, not substance—continue to harm U.S. interests at home and abroad.
- America’s alliances are strained as never before; some (like Denmark) have even prepared to resist Washington by force.
- The war in Iran, unplanned and unapproved, risks not just failure but disaster—military, political, and moral.
- Both hosts agree: these are “very bad times for bozos to be in charge.”
This summary covers all key segments of substance. (Ads, podcast plugs, and recurring “ZipRecruiter” bits have been omitted for clarity and flow.)