The Bulwark Podcast: David Frum – Both Pro-Jesus and Pro-Sex Trafficking
Release Date: February 28, 2025
In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a profound conversation with David Frum, a seasoned staff writer at The Atlantic and author of books including Trumpocalypse. The discussion traverses a broad spectrum of political and economic issues, dissecting the intricacies of American politics, economic policies, and international relations with a critical lens.
1. The Egg Price Surge and Political Accountability
Timestamp: [01:08] – [03:06]
The episode opens with a discussion on the dramatic rise in egg prices in the United States, which have nearly quadrupled since the previous fall. David Frum attributes this surge to structural issues such as avian flu outbreaks leading to the culling of egg-laying chickens and consequent economic shortages. He states:
"Democratic politicians in Congress know this isn't exactly Trump's fault... there’s an avian flu, the herd of egg-laying chickens has been culled and there's a genuine economic shortage." ([01:11])
Frum criticizes the Democratic Party for avoiding accountability, highlighting a structural problem in American politics where economic hardships are politically weaponized. He draws parallels with the beef price increases during COVID-19, emphasizing that unrelated economic factors are often sidestepped in political blame games.
2. Hypocrisy in Addressing Sexual Abuse: Epstein and the Tate Brothers
Timestamp: [04:03] – [08:19]
The conversation shifts to the controversial release of the Tate brothers from legal scrutiny in Romania, juxtaposed with ongoing discussions about Jeffrey Epstein. Frum highlights the hypocrisy within political factions regarding sexual abuse cases:
"These are occasions to remind people to improve their own behavior and just check their own stools and understand, by the way, that their behavior necessarily is going to be imperfect as they're fallible." ([06:13])
He criticizes the inconsistent outrage, pointing out that while Epstein's non-violent crimes receive widespread condemnation, the Tate brothers, who exhibited more direct violence and abuse, escape similar scrutiny. This double standard exemplifies the broader theme of selective accountability within political movements.
3. Messaging and Voter Engagement in the Trump Era
Timestamp: [08:19] – [15:26]
Frum delves into the complexities of political messaging, particularly how the Trump movement handles economic issues like rising egg prices. He argues that effective political strategy requires addressing the actual concerns of voters rather than merely assigning blame.
"You have to talk to them and you have to... We are going to go into this neighborhood, people weren't born here, may not have English as their first language... We're going to talk to them about what they care about because their votes count, too. That's like democracy done right." ([10:04])
This section underscores the importance of authentic engagement with voters’ real economic concerns, contrasting it with superficial blame games that often dominate political discourse.
4. Economic Outlook: Inflation, Growth, and Tariffs
Timestamp: [12:55] – [18:37]
The discussion transitions to the current state of the U.S. economy, highlighting issues such as sticky inflation, slowing growth, and the detrimental impact of tariffs. Frum emphasizes that tariffs function as taxes that disrupt the efficiency of the productive process:
"A tariff is a tax, but it's a tax with much greater potential for harm than other taxes because other taxes just take money out of people's pockets. Tariffs go to the efficiency of the productive process." ([14:59])
He critiques the Trump administration's tariff policies, arguing that both the threat and imposition of tariffs create uncertainty that hampers investment and economic stability. The conversation touches upon the broader implications of reduced productivity and the challenges posed by restrictive trade policies.
5. The Crypto Craze and Regulatory Challenges
Timestamp: [24:01] – [28:11]
Frum offers a critical analysis of the cryptocurrency industry's intersection with politics, particularly focusing on regulatory arbitrage. He explains how cryptocurrencies are often treated as securities or collectibles to circumvent stringent regulations:
"The crypto industry is at bottom, it's a regulatory arbitrage bet... If you are a high net worth individual, high income individual and you come to the United States, you are taxed on your global income." ([25:18])
He highlights the case of Justin Sun, a prominent figure in the crypto world, whose legal battles exemplify the challenges in regulating this volatile market. Frum also critiques the proposed "strategic bitcoin reserve," arguing that Bitcoin's unpredictable nature makes it unsuitable as a global reserve asset.
6. Institutional Integrity and the FBI Under Trump
Timestamp: [28:11] – [33:11]
The integrity of American institutions comes under scrutiny as Frum discusses the Trump administration's appointments to key positions within the FBI and Joint Chiefs of Staff. He expresses concern over the appointment of individuals like Dan Bongino and Cash Patel, suggesting that their presence undermines the FBI's credibility and operational effectiveness:
"You have to separate Kaine in one way from some of these other people because he did have a very distinguished career and he does seem to have been unlike Cash Patel." ([33:11])
Frum warns of the potential for politicization and corruption within these institutions, emphasizing the importance of maintaining their independence and integrity for the functioning of a healthy democracy.
7. Ukraine and International Diplomacy
Timestamp: [35:23] – [42:35]
The podcast delves into the U.S. involvement in Ukraine, specifically focusing on the meeting between President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy regarding rare earth minerals. Frum underscores the necessity of meaningful security guarantees in any diplomatic deal:
"Whatever the guarantee is, this idea of British and French troops in Ukraine, that, that is the test of success." ([38:19])
He criticizes Trump's approach to international diplomacy, arguing that superficial deals lacking substantive security commitments do little to ensure long-term stability and prosperity. Frum advocates for investments in Ukraine's reconstruction as a means to foster secure alliances and economic growth.
8. Cautionary Lessons from Historical Negotiations
Timestamp: [41:03] – [42:35]
Drawing parallels with historical events, Frum references the Nixon administration's handling of the Vietnam War negotiations to caution current policymakers. He illustrates how mismanaged negotiations can lead to unfavorable outcomes and institutional fallibility:
"What can you begrudge that with the vast wealth and power of the United States, it's nothing and yet it means so much." ([42:30])
This segment serves as a warning against repeating past mistakes in current international dealings, emphasizing the need for strategic foresight and institutional accountability.
Conclusion
In this insightful episode, David Frum provides a nuanced critique of contemporary political and economic challenges facing the United States. From the mismanagement of economic policies and institutional integrity to the complexities of international diplomacy, Frum's analysis encourages listeners to engage with the systemic issues underpinning American politics. His emphasis on accountability, coherent messaging, and strategic decision-making offers a roadmap for addressing the multifaceted challenges of the modern era.
Notable Quotes:
- "It goes to a big structural problem in American politics." – David Frum ([01:12])
- "A tariff is a tax, but it's a tax with much greater potential for harm than other taxes." – David Frum ([14:59])
- "Whatever the guarantee is, this idea of British and French troops in Ukraine, that, that is the test of success." – David Frum ([38:19])
Produced by: Katie Cooper
Audio Engineering and Editing by: Jason Brown