The Bulwark Podcast: David Frum – "Pride in the Fight"

Host: Tim Miller
Guest: David Frum
Episode Title: "David Frum: Pride in the Fight"
Date: November 5, 2024

1. Introduction & Election Day Atmosphere

Timestamp: [00:07] – [01:06]

Tim Miller opens the episode from the historic steps in Philadelphia, emphasizing the city's symbolic significance in American democracy. He sets the stage for Election Day 2024, noting Vice President Kamala Harris's rally speech where she exclaimed, "It's November 5th, 2024. It's election day."

Key Quote:

Tim Miller: "Oh, it's good to be back in the city of brotherly love. We're the foundation of our democracy was forged."
[00:21]

2. Trump's Persistent Support and the Electoral College

Timestamp: [01:17] – [03:32]

David Frum discusses the enduring support Donald Trump maintains, highlighting his consistent approval ratings hovering around 46-47%. He underscores that despite the dramatic events of the past decade, Trump hasn't garnered majority support, emphasizing, "there has not been a single day since the international politics when a majority of Americans didn't reject him." Frum also touches on the complexities and distortions of the Electoral College system, suggesting it's a "loaded revolver on the nightstand of American democracy."

Key Quotes:

David Frum: "Maybe that's all that ever was true, that about a little less than half the country supported him."
[01:21]

David Frum: "The Electoral College was not to let the people into the presidency."
[31:21]

3. Trump's Campaign Strategies and Behavioral Concerns

Timestamp: [04:13] – [09:16]

Tim and David critique Trump's last-ditch efforts to sway voters through negative and personal attacks. They highlight his derogatory remarks about Nancy Pelosi, illustrating a "massive gender gap in the campaign." Frum elaborates on the psychological and behavioral issues within Trump's campaign circle, labeling it as "a campaign run by and for people with serious psychological, behavioral problems."

Key Quotes:

Tim Miller: "She's an evil, sick cr. Oh, no, it starts with a B. But I won't say it. I want to say it."
[04:13]

David Frum: "You are in the people who didn't know Trump spokesperson sent a tweet..."
[05:29]

4. JD Vance and Megyn Kelly's Final Rally Remarks

Timestamp: [12:05] – [25:29]

The discussion shifts to JD Vance's closing remarks at a Trump rally, where he dismissively referred to Vice President Harris as "trash." Tim and David dissect Vance's aggressive stance and Megyn Kelly's controversial endorsement of Trump, wherein she disparages public figures like Oprah and Beyoncé while claiming Trump will protect "forgotten men." They analyze the psychological motivations behind such attacks, suggesting a mix of ambition and vindictiveness.

Key Quotes:

JD Vance: "The trash's name is Kamala Harris."
[12:44]

Megyn Kelly: "He will look out for our boys, too. Our forgotten boys and our forgotten men."
[19:03]

David Frum: "When Kelly was terminated at Fox... She went public with her grievances..."
[20:35]

5. Electoral College Concerns and Potential Outcomes

Timestamp: [26:07] – [34:10]

David Frum delves deeper into the implications of the Electoral College, criticizing its foundational intent and current execution. He contrasts legal legitimacy with moral legitimacy, emphasizing that even if Trump wins the Electoral College despite a popular vote loss, his legitimacy remains questionable. Frum warns of challenges related to presidential authority and the perception of legitimacy in governance.

Key Quotes:

David Frum: "He's legally the president... But there is a difference between a legal and a legitimate president."
[31:21]

David Frum: "If Trump does become president, losing the popular vote by 7 million that Biden won it by, or thereabouts. Look, he's legally the president."
[34:10]

6. Predictions for Election Night

Timestamp: [34:10] – [40:38]

Tim Miller shares his predictions, favoring a narrow Electoral College victory for Kamala Harris with 276 electoral votes. He anticipates Kamala winning key "blue wall" states like Nevada and expresses hope for Democrats to perform well in North Carolina due to demographic shifts favoring college-educated voters. Conversely, David Frum remains skeptical, especially about results in Arizona and Florida, pointing to potential Latino voter realignments favoring Republicans.

Key Quotes:

Tim Miller: "I think Kamala Harris will win a narrow Electoral college victory with 276 electoral votes."
[34:10]

David Frum: "If Trump is defeated not to try violence on his behalf, because they'll land in jail and he won't help them at all."
[36:05]

7. Reflections on the Past Decade and Personal Feelings

Timestamp: [40:38] – [42:19]

David Frum expresses a sense of pride in the resilience of the American democracy and the efforts of the "Never Trump" movement over the past decade. He acknowledges personal reasons for potentially stepping back post-election, hoping for stability and progress that would render his activism less necessary.

Key Quotes:

David Frum: "I feel pride that the country has most of the time, in most ways proven itself equal to the Trump challenge."
[40:38]

David Frum: "I just hope... that whatever little difference my efforts make, they're no longer needed."
[41:55]

Conclusion

Tim Miller wraps up the episode by outlining plans for Election Night coverage, focusing on early indicators from Georgia and key bellwether counties. He reiterates his optimism for Kamala Harris while acknowledging the uncertainties that remain.

Key Quote:

Tim Miller: "Hopefully, the American people step up to the task tonight and we can flush this down the toilet once and for all."
[42:17]

Notable Themes and Insights

• Electoral College Critique: Both hosts highlight systemic issues, questioning the fairness and representativeness of the Electoral College.

• Dark Side of Campaign Tactics: There's a strong critique of the negative, personal attacks in Trump's campaign, suggesting deeper psychological and strategic deficiencies.

• Future of the Republican Party: Concerns are raised about the party's direction, especially regarding candidate behavior and voter alignment.

• Hope for Democratic Stability: Kamala Harris is portrayed as a potentially unifying and stabilizing figure, with the possibility of restoring traditional political norms.

• Personal Stakes and Resilience: David Frum underscores the personal sacrifices and pride associated with resisting Trump's influence, emphasizing the movement's enduring impact.

This episode serves as a comprehensive analysis of the 2024 election dynamics, the enduring challenges posed by Donald Trump's political strategies, and the broader implications for American democracy and political polarization. David Frum's insights, combined with Tim Miller's questioning, provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the electoral landscape and the factors shaping its outcome.