The Bulwark Podcast Summary: Episode with David Graham and Pablo Torre

Episode Title: David Graham and Pablo Torre: Is Lil Marco a Cuban Communist Agent?

Release Date: February 20, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller welcomes David Graham, the new lead author of The Atlantic Daily Newsletter and author of the forthcoming book, Project 2025: How Project 2025 is Reshaping America. Joining the conversation is Pablo Torre, a seasoned sports commentator. The trio delves into a mix of political intrigue, conspiracy theories, and the intersection of sports and politics.

Conspiracy Theories and Political Analysis

The episode kicks off with Miller posing a provocative question: "Do you think it's possible that Marco Rubio is a Cuban Communist agent who's been playing the long game?" (00:48). Graham counters by referencing past instances of foreign agents infiltrating U.S. institutions, stating, "We know this is the sort of thing they do. I think you can get this going." (01:45).

Miller expands on this by connecting Rubio's potential role to Yuri Besmanov’s KGB strategies of altering public perception (02:20). While Graham remains skeptical, he finds the premise intriguing enough to warrant further discussion (02:29).

Trump’s Influence and Project 2025

The conversation shifts to Donald Trump's recent statements attacking Ukrainian President Zelensky, labeling him a dictator (02:47). Graham criticizes Trump's approach, highlighting the strategic dissemination of lies to manipulate public perception (03:58). He notes, "Trump is going for the 'I'm just going to tell you a really brazen lie and see if I can get away with it' strategy." (04:29).

Miller introduces a contrarian theory suggested by Karl Rove: that Trump is strategically positioning himself, potentially outmaneuvering Putin (06:15). Graham dismisses this as a long-debunked notion, expressing frustration over the enduring belief in Trump’s manipulative tactics (07:18).

Implementation and Setbacks of Project 2025

Graham discusses Trump's adherence to longstanding political agendas, such as cutting immigration and implementing tariffs, noting their consistency with his actions since the 1980s (08:31). Miller expresses surprise at the public's credulity regarding the disconnect between campaign promises and actual policies (09:20).

The discussion then moves to the fallout of Project 2025, with Elon Musk's actions complicating the plan's implementation (20:42). Graham explains that Musk's interference is undermining the methodical approach outlined in Project 2025, leading to legal challenges and public backlash (25:19).

Political Movements and Voter Sentiment

Miller and Graham explore the potential emergence of a Tea Party-like movement within the Democratic base, fueled by frustration over insufficient opposition to Trump (28:00). They discuss the challenges Democratic leaders face in channeling voter anger effectively without a clear organizing principle (29:19).

Graham emphasizes the difficulty Democrats have in unifying their base, contrasting it with Republican strategies, and notes the absence of effective leadership to harness populist sentiments (31:00).

Sports and Politics: The LIV Golf Tour Controversy

Transitioning to Pablo Torre's segment, the conversation centers on the LIV Golf Tour's merger with the PGA Tour and Donald Trump's involvement (36:14). Torre provides a detailed history of LIV Golf's inception, highlighting Saudi Arabia's attempt to use sports as a means of human rights laundering (38:13).

Miller critiques Trump's role in facilitating the merger, suggesting it serves his financial interests while undermining American sports integrity (44:19). Torre echoes these concerns, pointing out the hypocrisy and corruption inherent in the collaboration between American sports institutions and Saudi investors (45:59).

Implications for Liberal Democracy and Public Sentiment

The discussion deepens as Miller and Torre draw parallels between the degradation of sports institutions and the broader erosion of liberal democratic values (50:05). They argue that the infiltration of corrupt foreign interests into beloved American sports mirrors the political manipulation seen in Project 2025.

Torre emphasizes the negative impact on ordinary fans and the overall quality of sports, stating, "It's not good for the normal person. It's not good for the fan. It's not good for sports." (52:55). Miller adds that this trend reflects a larger pattern of American institutions being compromised for financial gain (53:43).

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, the hosts reflect on the state of American politics and sports, urging listeners to recognize and resist the corrupting influences undermining national integrity. They emphasize the need for principled leadership and public vigilance to combat the insidious encroachment of unethical practices.

As the episode concludes, Tim Miller previews upcoming topics, including the anticipated confirmation of Kash Patel as FBI Director, promising further in-depth analysis (57:15).

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller (00:47): "Do you think it's possible that Marco Rubio is a Cuban Communist agent who's been playing the long game?"

• David Graham (01:45): "We know this is the sort of thing they do. I think you can get this going."

• Tim Miller (02:45): "Elon Musk won't come on to like chief the joints with me and really ruminate on it like Rogan does."

• David Graham (03:58): "Trump is going for the 'I'm just going to tell you a really brazen lie and see if I can get away with it' strategy."

• David Graham (04:29): "Trump is saying that Russia holds all the cards because he is saying they hold the cards. But he just says these things and fires them off and it changes the board."

• Tim Miller (07:18): "How are we, after 10 years, still saying these things?"

• David Graham (09:28): "He’s wanted tariffs and he’s wanted to cut immigration. It’s so clear."

• Pablo Torre (38:25): "They’re trying to sports wash and launder. Because by the way, also in that catalog is 9/11, right."

• Tim Miller (44:19): "We love cash, is that cash is green. That's what we never forgot."

• Pablo Torre (52:55): "It is being in shittified. And so even if, by the way, we led with some acknowledgement, as we do as liberal cucks, towards the idea that, by the way, the PGA Augusta, they have some issues not trying to enshrine them."

Final Notes

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a comprehensive and critical examination of current political maneuvers, conspiracy theories, and the intertwining of sports with geopolitical agendas. Through incisive analysis and lively discussion, Graham and Torre provide listeners with a nuanced perspective on the challenges facing American liberal democracy and the integrity of its institutions.

For a deeper dive into these topics, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to The Atlantic Daily Newsletter and explore Pablo Torre’s segments on Pardon the Interruption and his own show, Pablo Torre Finds Out Fame.