The Bulwark Podcast: David Wallace-Wells - "The U.S. Is Handing the Baton to China"

Release Date: July 17, 2025

Hosts: Tim Miller
Guest: David Wallace-Wells, Science Writer and Essayist for The New York Times Opinion, Columnist for The New York Times Magazine, Author of The Uninhabitable Earth (2019)

1. The Texas Floods: Scale and Reaction

The episode begins with Tim Miller addressing the devastating Texas floods, which resulted in 132 deaths and 100 missing as reported by the Dallas Morning News. Despite the magnitude, the public and media response appeared surprisingly subdued compared to past climate disasters.

David Wallace-Wells highlights the recurring pattern of inadequate responses to climate-induced disasters:

"[00:01:17]... the scale of reaction, I think that that's basically the standard now."

He contrasts the Texas floods with the Maui fires, emphasizing how high-profile events like the latter fade from the national consciousness swiftly despite their severity.

2. Media Shortcomings in Climate Crisis Reporting

Wallace-Wells criticizes the modern media ecosystem for its inability to sustain long-term narratives on climate disasters. He points out that while initial coverage is intense, it quickly shifts focus, leaving the public inadequately informed about ongoing climate challenges.

"[00:01:17]... we don't have the kind of... media ecosystem that makes these things really long stories anymore."

3. Comparing Climate Disasters: Texas Floods vs. Hurricane Katrina

The discussion draws parallels between the Texas floods and Hurricane Katrina, noting the lack of substantial political and social repercussions following such events. Wallace-Wells argues that unlike Katrina, which significantly impacted George W. Bush’s presidency and the Republican Party's reputation, the Texas floods did not elicit a similar generational response.

"[03:56]... we don't have the kind of... response to these floods as there wasn't to Hurricane Helene."

4. Climate Adaptation: Coastal vs. Inland Challenges

Wallace-Wells delves into the disparities in climate adaptation strategies between coastal regions and inland areas. While places like New Orleans have improved hurricane forecasting and infrastructure, inland states struggle with increased flooding events without adequate preparation.

"[07:10]... I'm more on the left than you, but my view is like..."

He emphasizes that inland regions are experiencing more frequent and severe extreme weather events, leading to substantial economic damages.

5. Declining Global Climate Action Momentum

The conversation shifts to the diminishing global momentum for climate action since the Paris Accord in 2015. Wallace-Wells laments the loss of global cooperation and solidarity that once characterized international efforts to combat climate change.

"[13:23]... the momentum for global climate action that was building all through the 2010s... now just feels like a relic of an impossibly distant era."

6. China's Ascendancy in Green Energy

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on China's dominance in renewable energy, with 75% of all renewable projects being developed by Chinese companies globally. This imbalance positions China as the primary driver of the green transition, leaving the U.S. struggling to keep pace.

"[14:17]... China is doing an awful lot to accelerate the green transition... they are building a massive clean energy electrostate."

7. Electric Vehicles: BYD vs. Tesla

Wallace-Wells highlights the competitive edge of Chinese electric vehicle manufacturer BYD over Tesla, noting innovations like a 5-minute charge car, which could revolutionize the electric vehicle market and undermine Tesla's dominance.

"[37:13]... BYD, the electric car company has a 5-minute charge car that's coming which could totally change the game in that space."

8. AI and Energy: A Compounded Challenge

The tie between Artificial Intelligence (AI) and energy consumption is explored, with the U.S. focusing heavily on AI advancements while neglecting the necessary green energy infrastructure to support its growing energy demands. Wallace-Wells warns that without embracing renewable energy, the U.S. risks falling further behind China.

"[27:14]... the US is over here doubling down on fossil fuels, kneecapping renewables wherever they can."

9. Geoengineering: Potential Risks and Benefits

The conversation touches on geoengineering as a controversial method to mitigate climate change by altering atmospheric conditions. While it offers potential climate benefits, Wallace-Wells expresses skepticism about its safety and effectiveness.

"[21:53]... geoengineering pitch is, let's just put that stuff higher in the atmosphere so we don't have to breathe it into our lungs."

10. Climate vs. COVID-19: Public Response and Solidarity

Drawing a parallel between the collective response to COVID-19 and the current climate crisis, Wallace-Wells reflects on the initial global solidarity during the pandemic. However, he notes a post-pandemic resentment that hinders similar unified action against climate change.

"[64:03]... when I compare it to the climate crisis, I think there's something really amazing and inspiring about the first period of the pandemic response when... an incredible global gesture of solidarity."

11. Epstein Scandal: Elite Impunity and Social Repercussions

In a more somber segment, Wallace-Wells discusses the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, emphasizing the lack of legal and social repercussions for many involved elites. He criticizes the American and global elite's impunity, underscoring the broader issue of unchecked power and moral failure within influential circles.

"[53:45]... how could anybody, putting aside those who are directly associating with him, how could deans and provosts be... think, oh, that's fine. It's coming from an acknowledged sex trafficker and sex offender."

12. Reflections on Collective Action and Future Prospects

Concluding the episode, Wallace-Wells reflects on the importance of collective action in addressing global crises. He compares the successful, albeit temporary, solidarity during COVID-19 to the fragmented response to climate change, urging for a renewed sense of global cooperation.

"[68:10]... it was a really... an incredible global gesture of solidarity that I think is basically unparalleled in modern history."

Notable Quotes

• David Wallace-Wells on Media's Short Attention Span:

  "[00:01:17]... we don't have the kind of attention economy, media ecosystem that makes these things really long stories anymore."

• Wallace-Wells on China's Green Energy Leadership:

  "[14:17]... China is doing an awful lot to accelerate the green transition... they are building a massive clean energy electrostate."

• On the Lack of Repercussions in the Epstein Scandal:

  "[53:45]... how could anybody, putting aside those who are directly associating with him, how could deans and provosts be... think, oh, that's fine. It's coming from an acknowledged sex trafficker and sex offender."

• Reflections on COVID-19 Solidarity:

  "[64:41]... there was a really... an incredible global gesture of solidarity that I think is basically unparalleled in modern history."

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast with David Wallace-Wells offers a compelling analysis of the intertwined crises of climate change, global energy leadership, and societal impunity. Wallace-Wells underscores the critical juncture at which the U.S. finds itself, grappling with internal political challenges while China rapidly advances its green energy initiatives. The discussion also navigates the complexities of public response to global threats, drawing lessons from the COVID-19 pandemic's initial solidarity that have yet to be fully translated into the climate movement. Additionally, the Epstein scandal serves as a stark reminder of the pervasive issue of elite impunity, further complicating the landscape of global governance and accountability.

For listeners seeking a thorough understanding of the current state of global climate politics, the rise of China as a green superpower, and the societal failures exemplified by the Epstein case, this episode provides insightful perspectives and critical reflections.

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