Summary of The Bulwark Podcast Episode: George Will: Democracy Rests on Persuasion
Release Date: November 26, 2024
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: George Will, Columnist for The Washington Post
Introduction
In this engaging episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller welcomes esteemed political commentator George Will to discuss the state of American democracy, the evolving role of the executive branch, and the challenges facing liberal democracy today. The conversation delves deep into George Will’s perspectives on constitutional powers, political polarization, and the potential paths forward for restoring balance among governmental branches.
George Will’s Reflections on Executive Power and Constitutional Balance
Timestamp: [00:58]
Tim Miller opens the discussion by highlighting George Will's prolific career as a columnist, noting his significant contributions through works like American Happiness and Discontents and The Conservative Sensibility. He humorously references Will’s famous critique of denim, setting a lighthearted tone before diving into substantive topics.
[02:11] George Will expresses concern over the expanding powers of the presidency, highlighting that modern presidents have access to a "bag of tricks" due to excessive delegations of power from Congress. He emphasizes the need for a "Madisonian equilibrium" between the branches of government, lamenting that both Republicans and Democrats have contributed to this imbalance.
Notable Quote:
"My hope for the next four years is that they revive Congress, Republicans and Democrats alike. It's been a bipartisan failure..."
— George Will [03:43]
Will underscores the historical intent of the Constitution to make Congress the primary legislative body, with the president's role being more secondary and responsive. He fears that without Congressional intervention, the presidency could become excessively dominant, undermining democratic principles.
Potential Risks of Executive Overreach Under a Second Trump Term
Timestamp: [05:05]
Miller probes deeper into the potential consequences of unchecked executive power, particularly in the context of a second Trump term. Will articulates his primary concern:
[05:37] George Will warns that President Trump’s tendency to implement broad tariffs could lead to economic turmoil, including a recession that might "cause the grass to grow in the streets of American cities." He criticizes Trump’s unpredictable tariff policies as harmful to the trading system and domestic supply chains.
Notable Quote:
"If he were to implement across the board tariffs, 10, 20%, he would wreck the trading system, he would wreck the supply chains, he would cause enormous disruptions..."
— George Will [05:37]
Will also discusses the potential for Trump to reinvigorate the Democratic Party’s policies inadvertently, suggesting that extreme executive actions might prompt a reevaluation of party strategies and governmental balance.
Analysis of Cabinet Appointments and Their Implications
Timestamp: [07:08]
The conversation shifts to Trump’s Cabinet appointments. Miller references Will’s recent column criticizing several nominees, including Greg Gabbard and Pete Hegseth.
[07:08] George Will critiques the composition of Trump’s Cabinet, describing it as "sharply divided." He expresses concerns about senators rejecting nominees based on qualifications and hints at future conflicts between the Treasury Department and the White House over protectionist policies.
Notable Quote:
"It's a sharply divided Cabinet. There are four who simply should not be confirmed or not qualified by experience or thought."
— George Will [07:08]
Will highlights specific roles, such as the Treasury Secretary and the Energy Secretary, expressing apprehension about their ability to navigate Trump’s protectionist agenda and foreign policy challenges, including relationships with NATO and responses to global threats.
The Fragility of the American-Led International Order
Timestamp: [08:52]
Miller raises concerns about the reliability of the American-led international order in light of Trump's policies and global alliances.
[08:52] George Will remains cautiously optimistic, asserting that the American-led order is "not yet" permanently broken. He contemplates whether Trump’s aggressive stance might paradoxically strengthen European defense commitments against adversarial nations like Iran, North Korea, China, and Russia.
Notable Quote:
"It could be that Mr. Trump is going to, through sheer terror, galvanize a more responsible defense commitment to Europe's self-defense."
— George Will [08:52]
Will draws parallels to historical events leading up to World War II, suggesting that current global tensions might be early indicators of a larger conflict. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining and strengthening alliances to counteract potential threats.
The Endurance of Democracy and Potential for Renewal
Timestamp: [16:22]
The discussion shifts to the resilience of American democracy and the possibility of political renewal post-Trump.
[16:22] George Will expresses hope that both major political parties can learn from past mistakes and restore the balance envisioned by James Madison. He envisions a future where a "deep breath candidate" could lead the nation towards moderation and away from the heightened tensions of the Trump era.
Notable Quote:
"I think the country is ripe for... a deep breath candidate. Someone who comes to the country and says, deep breath, everybody relax."
— George Will [16:22]
Will advocates for leadership that prioritizes unity and reasoned discourse, moving away from the divisive rhetoric that has characterized recent political landscapes. He believes that such leadership is essential for restoring the Madisonian equilibrium and ensuring the longevity of liberal democracy.
The Role of Media Consumption and Maintaining a Healthy Media Diet
Timestamp: [24:02]
In response to audience questions, Will offers advice on navigating media consumption in a politically charged environment.
[26:59] George Will advises listeners to engage with trusted news sources and avoid passive consumption of sensationalist media. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on substantive policy discussions rather than getting drawn into the contentious aspects of political discourse.
Notable Quote:
"Pick their brain. They have to have other interests. Ask them about work. Ask them about their dating life."
— George Will [21:51]
He recommends balancing information intake with activities that provide mental respite, such as listening to music or engaging in hobbies, to prevent media-induced fatigue and maintain emotional well-being.
Conclusion: The Importance of Persuasion in Democracy
In the closing segments, Will reiterates the foundational role of persuasion in sustaining democracy. He reflects on the necessity of engaging minority opinions to drive historical progress and underscores the collective responsibility of citizens to participate actively in democratic processes.
[32:12] George Will concludes with a nod to James Madison’s insights on factionalism and the structure of the U.S. government, highlighting the need for a multiplicity of interests to prevent tyranny and ensure a robust democratic system.
Notable Quote:
"Democracy rests on persuasion, but persuasion means on opinion. It's shiftable sand. Go out and shift the sand, change the opinions."
— George Will [32:04]
Will's final remarks serve as a call to action for listeners to engage thoughtfully and persuasively within their communities, reinforcing the enduring strength of democratic institutions through informed and active participation.
Post-Interview Mailbag and Reflections
Following the interview, Tim Miller addresses listener questions related to handling political tensions within families, developing a healthy media diet, and maintaining personal well-being amidst political turmoil. Drawing from personal experience and psychological insights, Miller offers compassionate advice on navigating these challenges, emphasizing the importance of empathy, open communication, and self-care.
Closing Remarks
The episode wraps up with a light-hearted endorsement of Hexclad cookware, followed by acknowledgments to the production team. George Will's participation provides a balanced and insightful perspective on the current state of American politics, offering both cautionary insights and optimistic pathways for the future of democracy.
Produced by: Katie Cooper
Audio Engineering and Editing by: Jason Brown