The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Jacob Soboroff and Sarah McBride: Democracy at the Ground Level
Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guests: Jacob Soboroff (MSNBC Correspondent), Sarah McBride (U.S. Congressman, Delaware), Sarah Lama (Co-host and interviewer)

Overview

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast tackles the state of American democracy through recent political developments and ground-level reporting. Tim Miller, joined by Jacob Soboroff and Sarah McBride, covers alarming trends in the federal government’s use of law enforcement, targeted indictments of political foes, the humanitarian impact of recent immigration enforcement, and the politics of coalition-building for democracy and rights. Soboroff provides vivid accounts from the streets of Chicago and LA under federal operations, while McBride offers candid perspectives from inside Congress, particularly on the ongoing government shutdown, Republican disarray, and the interconnected fight for health care and democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nobel Peace Prize & Political Weaponization of Justice [00:00-04:32]

• Nobel Peace Prize: Tim Miller announces Maria Machado as the 2025 winner for her work in Venezuela and contrasts this with Donald Trump’s failed pursuit of the prize.

  • "The way that a five year old wants a medal is how Donald Trump wants the Nobel Peace Prize." – Tim Miller [01:30]

• Tish James’ Indictment: Explains the indictment of NY AG Tish James on allegedly manufactured bank fraud charges, seeing this as weaponization of the justice system under Trump.

  • "The punishment is the indictment in some cases… the punishment is the hassle, the cost, the embarrassment, the chilling effect on other people." – Tim Miller [03:08]
  • Draws a distinction between local vs. federal prosecution, highlighting chilling, unprecedented presidential directives.

2. Chicago & LA Federal Operations: Democracy at Risk [08:13-28:40]

Ground Reporting from Chicago:

• Federal Agents on Streets: Soboroff recounts federal agents rounding up people, often without cause, in Latino neighborhoods:

  • "It was really like deja vu from being in LA ... people mobilized and came out into the streets. Not because they're just dissatisfied, but because they're disgusted by the behavior of these federal agents...” – Jacob Soboroff [08:56]
  • Over 1,000 people detained since September; tactics involve masked agents, unmarked cars, and aggressive force, particularly in working-class Latino areas.

• Legal Pushback: Coverage of a federal judge’s ruling opposing troop deployment in Illinois, viewing it as “adding fuel to the fire.”

• Insurrection Act Fears: Both Miller and Soboroff discuss the threat of Trump invoking the Insurrection Act to justify further militarization.

  • "They don't make much of a secret about any of this stuff ... this all seems like a big pretext to invoking the Insurrection Act." – Jacob Soboroff [11:19]
  • Pritzker's warning: This is laying groundwork for federal troops at the ballots by 2026.

Intentional Provocation:

• Protests & Federal Response: Federal deployment appears intended to provoke unrest, providing pretext for more aggressive actions.
  • "Why would you roll down a residential street in Cicero, 90% Latino ... with a videographer following ... to take a 53 year old mother ... if the intention was not to send a message or provoke or scare the shit out of people?" – Jacob Soboroff [12:57]
  • LA seen as “the petri dish” for federal takeover of local law enforcement.

Framing Immigration as a Democracy Issue:

• Democracy & Human Impact: Emphasizes these operations are not just about immigration, but about undermining democracy and constitutional checks.
  • "Immigration is the side story... really it's about checks and balances on power in the United States. And we're seeing them sort of crumble before our very eyes right now." – Jacob Soboroff [14:27]

3. Personal Impact Stories from the Ground [17:58-41:45]

Marcella’s Story [17:58-24:42]

• Soboroff shares the story of Marcella, a 53-year-old woman taken by ICE while running errands, and the moment her daughter saw the abduction video:

  • "All my life, I've prepared for this moment... But who the hell would have thought it would happen today?... She was just going to get meat for a stew." – Samantha (daughter, via Soboroff) [21:10]
  • Marcella lived in the U.S. for 30 years with no criminal record besides being undocumented and now faces imminent deportation.

• Soboroff critiques how enforcement emphasizes spectacle and intimidation:

  • "They're literally ... making snuff films out of it ... what are they doing with that stuff?” – Jacob Soboroff [24:35]

Systemic Patterns & Historical Context

• Reviews bipartisan history of punitive immigration policy from Clinton to Biden and Trump, noting the enduring logic of deterrence.
  • "Objectively punishing people and hurting people for being immigrants has never stopped people from coming to this country." – Jacob Soboroff [26:01]

Due Process Abuses:

• Reports that even U.S. citizens are caught up in sweeps; describes random stops, profiling, and perfunctory questions (“Are you a U.S. citizen?”).
  • "As we've seen, they've detained American citizens too, who do that, only to release them later." [25:25]

Protest Movements & Community Response [32:15-33:36]

• Accounts of rapid, large-scale community mobilizations, such as 7,000 people marching in Chicago:
  • _"It was electricity. It was electric. It was amazing." – Jacob Soboroff [32:20]

4. Profiles in Enforcement’s Human Toll [33:43-42:42]

• Estella & Nori Ramos: LA family, mother and college-age daughter (Nori) deported to Guatemala, mother dies due to lack of medication soon after.
  • “The family back in LA... says the deportation is what killed her, not her underlying medical condition.” – Soboroff [35:19]
• Narciso Barranco: Longtime resident and father of three U.S. Marine sons, beaten and detained by ICE while working in California.
  • "If I would have treated a detainee the way that those guys treated my dad, I'd be tried for a war crime." – Alejandro Barranco (son) [38:20]
• George Reddes: American citizen, wrongfully detained, described solitary confinement and harsh treatment, raising alarms about civil liberties abuses.
  • "This chapter of American history will fall in line after ... slavery and genocide and internment" – Jacob Soboroff [41:45]

5. Firestorm: The New Age of Disaster [43:06-46:26]

• Soboroff previews his upcoming book about the LA fires, tying disaster response, misinformation, and politicization into a wider pattern of crisis mismanagement.
  • “The thing that I’ve really taken away ... was like the fire of the future ... and the politics of misinformation and disinformation ... did nothing but pour more proverbial fuel on the fire.” – Jacob Soboroff [43:21]

6. Congress, Shutdown, and Democratic Strategy

[51:04-57:40 | Sarah McBride and Sarah Lama]

Civility and Bullying in Congress

• Candid recounting of avoidance and hostility from Congresswoman Nancy Mace towards McBride, implying a breakdown of basic civility.
  • "Every single time she sees me, she turns around and goes the other way." – Sarah McBride [51:23]

Shutdown Politics: Pressure and Leverage

• McBride on Democratic resolve amid GOP infighting:

  • "I think Republicans are in disarray, and I think Democrats feel like we are in a righteous fight right now." – Sarah McBride [53:14]

• Asserts that the GOP is both obsessed with cutting health care and unwilling to negotiate.

• “Epstein files” and efforts to block Democratic procedural leverage noted.

Connecting Authoritarianism, Tax Cuts, and Healthcare

• Emphasizes that the fight over healthcare is linked to Trump’s consolidation of power, not just standalone policy.
  • “You are also addressing the authoritarian consolidation of power in that moment, too.” – Sarah McBride [56:52]

Democratic Cohesion & Public Opinion

• Democrats must both deliver on tangible issues and wage a battle for public opinion as a lever against Trump’s policies.
  • “The main lever we have at our disposal ... is public opinion.” – Sarah McBride [55:19]

Republican Disarray and Possible Outcome

• McBride sees real possibility of GOP caving on shutdown as troops and voters feel the cost, noting cracks inside the Republican coalition.
  • “I think we could see them cave. And ... we will show that the emperor has no clothes.” – Sarah McBride [58:25]

7. Coalition-Building and the 'Big Tent' [61:59-66:19]

Big Tent Philosophy

• McBride articulates necessity of including ideological diversity to defeat authoritarianism:

  • "If you can get behind... working people need more help, and... that freedom and democracy are good ... welcome to our cause." – Sarah McBride [62:24]

• Advocates persuading wavering allies and maintaining relationships even with those who partially disagree, to grow a durable pro-democracy coalition.

Trans Rights and Pragmatism

• McBride negotiates the difficult terrain of trans rights as a wedge issue, referencing marriage equality as precedent:
  • "We can defend [trans youth] and meet voters where they are at the same time. I do not believe that those are mutually exclusive..." – Sarah McBride [67:47]
  • Asserts best policy is for athletic associations, not politicians, to set trans sports policy [71:12].

8. Lighter Moments & Personal Insights [71:12–72:58]

• Banter on regional culture wars (Wawa vs. Sheetz), bathroom etiquette, and past affiliations, showing personal sides of the speakers beyond politics.

Notable Quotes

“The way that a five year old wants a medal is how Donald Trump wants the Nobel Peace Prize.”
— Tim Miller [01:30]

"This is the President of the United States directing the power of the Justice Department to go after his political foes widely. That is ... a complete category difference."
— Tim Miller [04:35]

"What is happening is large scale, indiscriminate picking up of people off the street because of the way that they look or the way that they sound or the jobs that they have..."
— Jacob Soboroff [08:51]

"Immigration is ... one pillar of a larger story that's about how our democracy functions ... And we're seeing [checks and balances] sort of crumble before our very eyes right now."
— Jacob Soboroff [14:27]

"All my life, I've prepared for this moment ... my mom ... has told me one day this could come, and we have to be prepared. But who the hell would have thought it would happen today?"
— Samantha (Marcella’s daughter, via Soboroff) [21:10]

"They're literally ... making snuff films out of it ... what are they doing with that stuff?”
— Jacob Soboroff [24:35]

"If I would have treated a detainee the way that those guys treated my dad, I'd be tried for a war crime."
— Alejandro Barranco (via Soboroff) [38:20]

"If you can get behind... working people need more help, and... that freedom and democracy are good ... welcome to our cause."
— Sarah McBride [62:24]

“We can defend [trans youth] and meet voters where they are at the same time. I do not believe that those are mutually exclusive ...”
— Sarah McBride [67:47]

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–04:32: Trump, Nobel, and weaponization of justice.
• 08:13–14:59: Chicago/LA operations, democracy concerns, Insurrection Act.
• 17:58–24:42: Marcella’s story, impact of raids.
• 33:43–42:42: Profiles of affected LA families, civil liberties abuses.
• 43:06–46:26: "Firestorm" book and politicization of disaster response.
• 51:04–57:40: McBride on Congressional environment, healthcare vs. authoritarianism.
• 61:59–66:19: Big tent strategy, persuasion, and values-based coalition.
• 67:47–71:12: Trans rights as wedge issue, balancing advocacy and coalition growth.

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast blends on-the-ground investigative journalism with sharp political analysis. Soboroff’s reporting portrays a nation confronting an existential challenge to its democratic norms, while McBride’s insights reveal a Democratic Party searching for effective responses and broad alliances in the face of rising authoritarianism. The stories told highlight the human cost, the strategic imperatives for pro-democracy forces, and make a compelling case for principled coalition-building.