The Bulwark Podcast: "Bad at Being President" with Jamelle Bouie – December 6, 2024

In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Jamelle Bouie, a renowned columnist from The New York Times and co-host of the podcast Unclear and Present Danger. Titled "Bad at Being President," the episode delves into the complexities of Donald Trump's presidency, the state of American democracy, the challenges facing the Democratic Party, and the evolving landscape of political discourse in the digital age.

1. Trump’s Presidency: Promises vs. Performance

The discussion opens with an examination of Donald Trump's effectiveness as president. Bouie emphasizes Trump's apparent desire for a personalist authoritarian state but contrasts this ambition with his perceived incompetence in governance.

Jamelle Bouie [03:03]: "He's very bad at governing. He's very bad at managing, like, all the things one would have to do to accomplish the things he wants to accomplish."

Bouie argues that Trump's mismanagement has led to haphazard and sometimes disastrous Cabinet picks, undermining his political capital. This inefficiency, Bouie posits, could prevent the worst-case scenarios envisioned by critics but still result in significant reversals across multiple areas that may take a generation to rectify.

2. Constitutional Concerns and Frederick Douglass's Insights

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Bouie's recent column reflecting on Frederick Douglass's late-life speeches during the counter-reconstruction period. Douglass expressed deep concerns about the nation's moral trajectory, sentiments Bouie finds both troubling and inspiring.

Jamelle Bouie [03:03]: "I find that inspirational. I find it maybe a little comforting. But more, more than ever, I find it useful, a useful way of looking at the situation."

Bouie draws parallels between Douglass's warnings and the current state of the constitutional order. He raises concerns about the neutrality of the Constitution, particularly how recent Supreme Court decisions, such as Dobbs, may enable the domination of majority groups over vulnerable minorities.

Jamelle Bouie [07:49]: "I'm most concerned about being able to conserve a constitutional order or a constitutional interpretation in which the courts really do look out and are trying to give serious consideration to the rights of vulnerable people in the society."

The conversation underscores the fragility of progress and the importance of maintaining vigilance to protect and advance egalitarian ideals.

3. The Democratic Party: Brand and Challenges

Next, Miller and Bouie explore the state of the Democratic Party post-election. Bouie acknowledges both systemic challenges and significant deficiencies that were highlighted in the recent electoral outcomes.

Jamelle Bouie [17:42]: "But I also think it is important for everyone not to go overboard. So going overboard is like this sort of self-loathing, self-flagellating, kind of like, you know, the Democratic Party is permanently separated, etc."

Bouie attributes part of the Democratic struggle to a disconnect between party leaders and their base, particularly among young and working-class voters. He suggests that the party's brand is perceived as toxic in many states, making statewide elections challenging regardless of the candidates' platforms.

Jamelle Bouie [22:33]: "Trying to rebuild a connection to voters, you know, person to person as an organization and not just mediated through candidates, to me is going to be a first step towards being able to both reestablish the brand."

He advocates for a grassroots approach, emphasizing the need for the Democratic Party to become a more organized and locally engaged entity to effectively counteract negative perceptions and reestablish its presence.

4. Racial Dynamics in the Election

The episode also touches on the racial elements of the election, particularly the impact of Kamala Harris's candidacy as a mixed-race female candidate.

Jamelle Bouie [35:23]: "It seems very silly to me to like dismiss, you know, potential racial or gender bias out of hand in that regard."

Bouie highlights the complex interplay between race, gender, and voter behavior, noting that anti-Black attitudes may have influenced some voters' support for Trump. He also points to a "cancel culture" atmosphere that stifles open discussions about these issues.

Jamelle Bouie [37:21]: "Like, you'll get... if you were to forthrightly make the argument, you might get shouted down."

5. The Role of Social Media: TikTok

In a shift to digital discourse, Bouie shares his experiences and reflections on using TikTok as a platform for political conversation. While he acknowledges concerns about data privacy and the influence of the Chinese Communist Party, Bouie sees value in engaging with audiences in a conversational and accessible manner.

Jamelle Bouie [40:09]: "I think that this kind of thing is much more common on the political right... there aren't very many people associated with the political left who are using these kinds of platforms in this kind of way."

He underscores the importance of utilizing social media to foster direct connections with the public, countering the more adversarial presence seen on the political right.

6. Conclusion and Future Outlook

As the discussion wraps up, Bouie remains cautiously pessimistic yet hopeful about the future of American democracy and the Democratic Party.

Jamelle Bouie [43:12]: "I think the answer to my question is we still have to wait and see. I think that we're on a bad trajectory. I think that we're on the path to a much less egalitarian and fair country."

However, he emphasizes the necessity of resilience and continued engagement to navigate the challenges ahead.

Jamelle Bouie [46:05]: "Absolutely."

Tim Miller concludes the episode by reiterating the inspirational message derived from Frederick Douglass's speeches, encouraging listeners to remain steadfast in their pursuit of an inclusive and just American democracy.

Key Takeaways:

1. Trump’s Governance: Despite ambitions towards authoritarianism, Trump's perceived ineptitude in governance may hinder the realization of his agenda, potentially preventing the worst scenarios from unfolding but still causing significant societal regressions.

2. Constitutional Vigilance: Protecting the constitutional order requires active engagement and safeguarding the rights of vulnerable populations against majoritarian domination.

3. Democratic Disconnect: The Democratic Party faces challenges in reconnecting with its base and overcoming a toxic brand image in various states, necessitating a more grassroots and organized approach.

4. Racial and Gender Dynamics: Race and gender biases play a complex role in electoral outcomes, influenced by both societal attitudes and strategic party considerations.

5. Digital Engagement: Platforms like TikTok offer new avenues for political discourse, emphasizing the need for the left to adopt more conversational and accessible communication strategies.

6. Future Uncertainty: While the trajectory appears challenging, continued resilience and strategic engagement are essential for advancing egalitarian and inclusive democratic ideals.

Notable Quotes:

• Jamelle Bouie [03:03]: "He's very bad at governing. He's very bad at managing, like, all the things one would have to do to accomplish the things he wants to accomplish."

• Jamelle Bouie [07:49]: "I'm most concerned about being able to conserve a constitutional order or a constitutional interpretation in which the courts really do look out and are trying to give serious consideration to the rights of vulnerable people in the society."

• Jamelle Bouie [17:42]: "But I also think it is important for everyone not to go overboard. So going overboard is like this sort of self-loathing, self-flagellating, kind of like, you know, the Democratic Party is permanently separated, etc."

• Jamelle Bouie [22:33]: "Trying to rebuild a connection to voters, you know, person to person as an organization and not just mediated through candidates, to me is going to be a first step towards being able to both reestablish the brand."

• Jamelle Bouie [35:23]: "It seems very silly to me to like dismiss, you know, potential racial or gender bias out of hand in that regard."

• Jamelle Bouie [40:09]: "I think that this kind of thing is much more common on the political right... there aren't very many people associated with the political left who are using these kinds of platforms in this kind of way."

• Jamelle Bouie [43:12]: "I think the answer to my question is we still have to wait and see. I think that we're on a bad trajectory. I think that we're on the path to a much less egalitarian and fair country."

• Jamelle Bouie [46:05]: "Absolutely."

This episode serves as a thought-provoking analysis of the current political climate, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on governance, party dynamics, and the role of digital media in shaping democratic discourse.