Jared Moskowitz and Zeke Faux: Scams Galore

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bulwark Podcast – Episode: "Jared Moskowitz and Zeke Faux: Scams Galore"

Release Date: February 19, 2025

Host: Tim Miller

In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in in-depth discussions with Zeke Faux, an investigative reporter for Bloomberg Businessweek and Bloomberg News, and Jared Moskowitz, a Democratic Congressman from Parkland, Florida. The conversation navigates through the murky waters of cryptocurrency scams, political entanglements with the crypto world, budgetary challenges, and the rising tide of antisemitism in the United States.

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1. Understanding Cryptocurrency and Its Pitfalls

Timestamp [00:00] – [07:01]

Tim Miller kicks off the episode by introducing Zeke Faux, highlighting his expertise in crypto scams as detailed in his book Number Go Up: Inside Crypto’s Wild Rise and Staggering Fall. The discussion delves into the intricate world of cryptocurrencies, unraveling the complexities and inherent risks associated with them.

Key Points:

• Cryptocurrency Basics: Zeke explains that Bitcoin was initially conceived as an alternative to traditional currencies, operating on a decentralized network without central oversight. Over 15 years, Bitcoin’s original vision as a common currency has largely faded, giving rise to a myriad of other cryptocurrencies, each serving different purposes—from stocks to network tokens like Ethereum and Solana.

• Meme Coins and Their Risks: The conversation shifts to the proliferation of meme coins, with Dogecoin highlighted as the pioneer. Zeke describes meme coins as “purely buying them on the idea that somebody else might buy it also for no reason, driving the price up higher”—a modern form of gambling akin to pump-and-dump schemes seen in penny stocks.

Notable Quotes:

• Zeke Faux [01:28]: “If you don't know that much about this, like, or even if you do, you're like, it can't possibly be as dumb as it sounds, could it? And the answer is yes. And in fact, it's even dumber.”

• Tim Miller [05:17]: "It's just a modern Jordan Belfort situation where they're just trying to run up these penny stocks and then sell them."

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2. The Intersection of Trump 2.0 and the Crypto World

Timestamp [07:01] – [24:28]

The conversation intensifies as Tim Miller probes into the connections between Donald Trump’s resurgence (referred to as Trump 2.0) and the cryptocurrency sector, revealing a web of political and financial entanglements.

Key Points:

• Trump Coin Launch: Three days before his inauguration, Trump launched his own meme coin, which initially soared to $72 before crashing to around $17. This move is seen as a strategic monetization of his celebrity status, yielding an estimated $100 million in real profits.

• Involvement of Political Figures: The episode uncovers the roles of individuals like Steve Witkoff and Justin Sun in Trump’s crypto ventures. Justin Sun, CEO of Tron, invested heavily in Trump’s first cryptocurrency, World Liberty, contributing approximately $56 million to the Trumps, raising questions about potential influence and conflicts of interest.

• Tether and Regulatory Concerns: Zeke discusses Tether, the largest stablecoin, and its controversial reputation. Recent ties between Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and Tether highlight regulatory challenges, especially given Tether's extensive use in illicit activities like money laundering.

• Policy Implications: The discussion touches on proposed policies such as the Bitcoin reserve and the potential deregulation of meme coins. The intertwining of government officials with crypto investments raises concerns about the impartiality of regulatory bodies like the CFTC.

Notable Quotes:

• Zeke Faux [09:20]: “Trump Coin shot up as high as $72 on paper. Trump had $57 billion worth of Trump Coin. At that price, it since crashed, it's down to I think like 17 bucks now.”

• Tim Miller [16:50]: “We have to hold them to their positions. They care about the debt. Then we should add no money to the debt.”

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3. Budgetary Challenges and Political Maneuvering

Timestamp [28:00] – [50:47]

Transitioning from cryptocurrency, the episode features an interview with Congressman Jared Moskowitz, who addresses pressing issues such as the Ukraine war, budget negotiations, and governmental inefficiencies.

Key Points:

• Ukraine War Stance: Moskowitz critiques President Trump’s recent statements blaming Ukraine instead of Russia for the ongoing war. He emphasizes the complexities of international deals and the potential repercussions on U.S. relations with Europe and China.

• Government Budget Crisis: The conversation shifts to the impending government shutdown scheduled for March 14th. Moskowitz advocates for a balanced budget amendment, highlighting the Democrats' challenges in passing a clean continuing resolution amidst Republican divisions.

• Fiscal Responsibility: Moskowitz underscores the importance of addressing fraud, waste, and abuse within the government. He criticizes the Republican approach of using continuing resolutions, which perpetuate inefficiencies and hinder budget reform.

• Political Strategies: The discussion highlights the internal conflicts within the Republican Party, particularly the influence of the Freedom Caucus and their stance on fiscal policies. Moskowitz stresses the need for bipartisan cooperation to achieve meaningful budgetary reform.

Notable Quotes:

• Jared Moskowitz [40:19]: “In a $36 trillion debt, $100 billion is a lot of money. It is, but not in $36 trillion debt. So how are we going to get at that debt, which is what Doge wants to do.”

• Jared Moskowitz [51:18]: “One is they can make a deal with us. That would be bipartisan and bring responsibility.”

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4. Rising Antisemitism and Its Implications

Timestamp [50:47] – [56:18]

The episode concludes with a poignant discussion on the surge of antisemitism in the United States, particularly within youth demographics and its intersection with political rhetoric.

Key Points:

• Antisemitic Protests: Moskowitz addresses violent protests targeting Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods, debunking the notion that criticism of Israel can be separated from antisemitism. He emphasizes that the genesis of these protests is inherently antisemitic, leading to harassment and violence against Jewish individuals.

• Political Accountability: Moskowitz criticizes both left and right-wing factions for fueling antisemitism—far-left groups through anti-Israel sentiment and the far-right through pro-Nazi rhetoric. He calls for greater accountability and proactive measures to curb hate speech and violence.

• Community Impact: Highlighting his district’s demographics, Moskowitz shares his electoral success within a significant Jewish community, attributing it to strong offensive stances against antisemitism and supportive rhetoric against Jewish communities.

Notable Quotes:

• Jared Moskowitz [53:30]: “Everything you're seeing in this country, on these college campuses and in the streets, is antisemitic protests.”

• Jared Moskowitz [55:59]: “The far left gets there by significant anti-Israel wanting the country to be wiped off the map and the far right gets there with pro Nazi talk.”

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5. Concluding Insights

Timestamp [56:18] – [58:39]

In the closing segments, Tim Miller reinforces the gravity of the issues discussed, urging listeners to remain vigilant against both financial scams and societal hate. The episode wraps up with spirited chants and affirmations, underscoring the podcast’s commitment to confronting multifaceted challenges head-on.

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Overall Conclusion:

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a thorough exploration of the intricate nexus between cryptocurrency scams and political maneuvering, highlighting the vulnerabilities within both financial systems and governmental structures. Through insightful interviews and robust discussions, Tim Miller, Zeke Faux, and Jared Moskowitz shed light on the pressing issues of crypto fraud, budgetary crises, and the disturbing rise of antisemitism, urging listeners to stay informed and proactive in addressing these societal challenges.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

Foreign.

[Tim Miller]

Welcome to the board podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Super pumped to have a reporter today who is focused on something that I am obsessed with. He's the investigative reporter for Bloomberg Businessweek and Bloomberg News, and author of Number Go Up Inside Crypto's Wild Rise and Staggering Fall out, now in paperback. It's Zeke Fox to talk all things crypto. How you doing, Zeke?

[Zeke Fox]

Great. Thanks for having me on, Tim.

[Tim Miller]

Dude, thanks for doing this. I'm obsessed with this. I'm of the view that the crypto scams will probably be a top three to five story of the Trump years when all is said and done. And I think that a lot of the media outlets don't give this quite as much attention because the demographics of the news consumers don't overlap with crypto world much. A lot of them don't really even understand it.

[Zeke Fox]

And then a lot of the people.

[Tim Miller]

In journalists world have such contempt or just like, culturally or separate from the types of folks that are really into crypto. And so it leads to, like, not getting ignored. And obviously you're not ignoring it. But I'm wondering if you kind of agree with my assessment of. Obviously, I would assume you agree that this is undercovered since it's your beat. But I wonder what you think about that. About my assessment for why.

[Zeke Fox]

Definitely. I mean, the crypto guys are very good at making it seem like they have a lot of jargon. They make it seem like there's some sort of really complicated and important technology that we're talking about.

[Tim Miller]

And.

[Zeke Fox]

And it makes you think in your back of your mind, if you don't know that much about this, like, or even if you do, you're like, it can't possibly be as dumb as it sounds, could it? And the answer is yes. And in fact, it's even dumber.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, so I want to do just a little bit of crypto 101 for our listeners that don't, you know, follow this stuff. But if this brief crypto 101 lesson isn't enough, you did Chris Hayes's why is this Happening Pod a couple weeks ago, and it was like 45 minutes of crypto 101. It was really good. So I direct people to that if they don't get enough. But at its basic level, there's cryptocurrency, then there's bitcoin, which is the most famous or whatever, the most renowned, but then there are all these other coins. So you just kind of explain to people how all of these kind of terms interact with each other.

[Zeke Fox]

So the original idea for Bitcoin, the first cryptocurrency, was that this would be a alternative to regular currencies like the dollar or the yen. And the big innovation was that instead of being tracked by a central counterparty like a bank, there would be this decentralized network of computers that would keep track of this new currency. Now, that was 15 years ago. Bitcoin's as old as WhatsApp or Uber. And this idea of it becoming an alternative currency is largely dead. No one's really using it for that. But instead there's been this proliferation of other cryptocurrencies. And at this point, most of them are not meant to be like dollars. They represent all sorts of different things. So some of them are kind of like stocks, where if you buy a share of this, you buy a coin, you're almost like buying a share of some sort of company. Other times it's like a new network like Ethereum or Solana, where it's like a place where people are creating other crypto things. And when you buy one of those coins, you're kind of buying into the network and you get a share of its profits.

[Tim Miller]

So that's almost like buying into, like a crypto bank kind of. Right. Like, it's like. It's like investing in a stock for an exchange or a bank, essentially.

[Zeke Fox]

Yeah, some of them are a lot like that. Like Sam Bankman Fried had one that was called ftt that was basically just stock in his crooked exchange ftx. But at the silliest end we have, and which is one of the most popular things in crypto right now are meme coins. And the first one of these was called Dogecoin. And it's also like more than 10 years old. It was created as kind of a parody of Bitcoin. And it was saying, we're going to copy Bitcoin, but we're going to change the name and we're going to put a picture of a dog on it. And it turned out that. I don't know if you think this is a funny joke, but it turned out enough people did think this was kind of interesting that they started to buy it. Unlike a stock, or unlike one of these ones where you're buying into a network that generates fees with dogecoin or other meme coins, there's no way for it to ever generate any money. You're purely buying it on the idea that somebody else might buy it also for no reason, driving the price up higher. It's kind of like a New form of gambling game. And in the last couple of years, thousands of these meme coins, maybe even hundreds of thousands of these meme coins have been created. People are just pumping them out, and there are all these traders that are kind of have they made it a game to chase the new meme coin. And if you get in early, the goal is to get in before the masses and then profit when the price spikes and sell it before it inevitably.

[Tim Miller]

Collapses, which is basically no different than Wolf of Wall Street. It's just a modern Jordan Belfort situation where they're just trying to run up these penny stocks and then sell them.

[Zeke Fox]

Yeah, I mean.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, I guess those things had some value maybe, but not really.

[Zeke Fox]

Well, true. I think the kind of twist is that in your classic, like pump and dump, like Jordan Belfort, more of the people that Belfort like, when he was calling people, he's saying, hey, this stock is hot. They just discovered gold in Bolivia. It's gonna go up. And so there was this element of lying about the prospects of this company. So people were being defrauded that way. In this case, you've got people like Dave Portnoy from Barstool Sports being like, hey, I just created this dumb coin. It does not do anything. It'll probably collapse eventually. Do you want to buy some?

[Tim Miller]

For sure.

[Zeke Fox]

And people have sort of organized themselves into this kind of pack of degenerate gamblers who move from meme coin to meme coin and try to make money on it.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, all right, one more 101 question. And then I want to get into why I wanted to have you on, and I think why it's so relevant to what's happening at the Trump 2.0. So you mentioned that the kind of wide array of coins or currencies, so to speak, and how they're doing it. There is also, in addition to bitcoin, which I guess people aren't really trying to make a currency anymore, but El Salvador invested in bitcoin. There's still some people, I guess, that are trying to use Bitcoin to actually trade goods. There's also some state coins that are called stablecoins, where they are trying to make them mimic currencies, I guess, in some fashion. Is that fair?

[Zeke Fox]

Yes. So it's kind of funny, but the cryptocurrencies that have actually found the most widespread use are ones that are backed by. By dollars. And this is because in my book number go up, I was really focused on this one called Tether. It's the biggest stable coin it's gotten so large that there's something like $130 billion worth of it outstanding. And the pitch is that a tether will always be worth a dollar because it's backed by real dollars. That tether the company keeps in the bank somewhere.

[Tim Miller]

So why would you buy a tether, not a dollar for crime? I guess because it's not traceable.

[Zeke Fox]

Yeah, I mean, that's certainly one popular reason. Criminals all around the world are figuring out that this is very handy because you can keep tether in like an anonymous wallet and you could zap an unlimited amount to somebody other side of the world into their anonymous wallet. And unless law enforcement is able to figure out what your secret wallet address is, they would have no idea compared to like a bank or credit card company that's going to ask a lot of questions about your transfers. You got like Russia using it to evade sanctions, Chinese gangsters in Cambodia are using it to run this massive fraud and human trafficking operation. And also just crypto traders use it. Basically, whether you're a criminal or you're selling sneakers, you don't want your currency to go up or down 10% in a day. So the stablecoin is more attractive.

[Tim Miller]

Got it. Okay, we're going to get back to tether. I wanted to ask about that for a reason. So I want to just kind of get into Trump 2.0 and sometimes, you know, I was talking to my husband last night and he's like, you're seeming a little bit like the always sunny guy with the yarn in the wall. But I mean, the amount of connections in Trump 2.0 into crypto world is like pretty staggering. So obviously you start with the most obvious, which is that Trump launched one of these meme coins of his own a few days before he was inaugurated. A massive influx of cash comes in. Talk about, you know, what has happened so far with Trump Coin.

[Zeke Fox]

So it's three days before inauguration. He writes on Truth Social. My new official Trump meme is here. It's time to celebrate. And honestly, a lot of people in this meme coin world were waiting for this moment because they knew if Trump ever did launch a meme coin, there'd be a lot of interest and it would go up a lot. And that becomes kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. So Trump Coin shot up as high as $72 on paper. Trump had $57 billion worth of Trump Coin. At that price, it since crashed, it's down to I think like 17 bucks now. Now it's a bit complicated, but the best Estimates are that Trump, by selling this meme coin, made about $100 million, because his holdings on paper would be hard to turn into real money without, like, totally crashing the price. But he did make $100 million of totally real money. That's the estimate off selling this meme coin. So it really beats, like, you know, a new Trump Hotel or like Trump steaks, Trump Vodka. This is like the best way to monetize your celebrity.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Okay, so I want to go through the people involved in this Trump coin, because here's where we get to the yarn. So you've got Steve Witkoff, who is his envoy, I guess, to negotiations now around the world. This business guy, he was the lead in the hostage trade with Russia recently. Wyckoff's kids. His kid, rather, is a business partner with Trump's kids on this Trump coin. So he also made some cash out of the coin, is that right?

[Zeke Fox]

I believe that actually Wyckoff was the business partner on Trump's first cryptocurrency, not the Trump coin.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you for clearing that up.

[Zeke Fox]

Now, I mean, if he didn't get in on Trump coin too, I'm sure he would be mad because that was like a great money making opportunity right there. But Trump had an earlier cryptocurrency called World Liberty, where Wyckoff and his son had a big role.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, so his crypto business partner is the lead on this negotiation. Maybe just a coincidence, but we get in the hostage trade, we get Mark Fogel, an American teacher. We're glad that he's home. The Russians get Alexander Vinnick. He was arrested in 2017 on charges related to the laundering of billions of dollars using virtual currency, Bitcoin. So we have a Russian bitcoin money launderer that is the first person out on their side. Maybe a coincidence, but pretty noteworthy that that was the person that was there on the trade with Wyckoff, the crypto business partner.

[Zeke Fox]

One interesting part of that was this guy, Alexander Vinick appeared to be just like a crypto criminal who ran an exchange that some people say was even set up to launder the proceeds of hacks. It's not immediately obvious to me why Russia would want him back or what he had done for Russia. So I was intrigued that he was their side of that trade.

[Tim Miller]

In addition, this also ties to kind of our previous conversations about how us is now on the side of the baddies in these world events. Justin sun, who is the subject of an SEC enforcement action, big investor in the first Trump crypto gambit before the more Recent Coin. Talk to us about Justin Sun.

[Zeke Fox]

So he runs a blockchain called Tron. He's been around for a while. And the SEC's case against him is that when he launched Tron and sold its new cryptocurrency, he engaged in manipulative trading and fraud to make the price look like it was going up to help sell it to the public. Now, he denies this, but it's a serious case now. So Trump's first crypto, World Liberty, was not an immediate success, and this was launched last year around September, during the campaign. Now, Justin sun, he's someone who I don't think would be allowed to donate to Trump's campaign. I'm not sure of his citizenship, but he doesn't regularly appear in the US he bought initially $30 million of this world Liberty coin. Part of the reason the deal wasn't successful initially was that the terms of World Liberty are that if you buy the coin, 75% of all the money you put in just goes to the Trumps as a licensing fee. So sun ended up putting in another 40 million. So that's him giving the Trumps $56 million.

[Tim Miller]

But they get a 20% licensing fee. So they get 20% of 56 million.

[Zeke Fox]

They got 75% of 75 million.

[Tim Miller]

Got it.

[Zeke Fox]

I mean, probably the biggest payment to a president for anything ever, right?

[Tim Miller]

When the Trump coin thing happened, the thing that people who are daily listeners will know that I keep saying that, like, they made Spiro Agnew resign over like 10 grand. And it was bad, like, it was like 10 or 20 grand. He was paperback money as VP, but it was like pennies compared to the type of money that people are putting into the various Trump coins and this guy in particular. And I guess we will watch. And what happens with, with the investigation, we have somebody who's a foreign national giving tens of millions of dollars essentially into Trump's pocket.

[Zeke Fox]

He's fighting it, and he's saying it should be dropped. Crypto reform. And all these cases are kind of on the table, right? And now he's saying, hey, maybe you should really think extra hard about my case. Here's $56 million. Again, I should say he denies that he's trying to influence anything with his purchase.

[Tim Miller]

But, sure, who wouldn't deny it?

[Zeke Fox]

After he made the investment, he was named an advisor to World Liberty. So he's kind of in business with the Trumps now on this crypto. And just a couple weeks after he made the investment, he was at this crypto conference in Abu Dhabi. And at the conference, he was spotted meeting with Steve Wyckoff, the envoy, and Eric Trump, who was there to give a speech about how Bitcoin was going to the moon. So it's pretty hard to believe that he would not take an opportunity to mention his case.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Again, how is, like, Justin's son not extremely famous, I guess, is my question. This is kind of what I was talking about at this, at the start, because, I mean, if this was, you know, anything like, you know, in the past, you know, like the Mark Rich pardon or, you know, like, these sorts of things, I mean, like, the amount of money that was given is nothing compared to what Justin sun has put in.

[Zeke Fox]

Yeah, I mean, I obviously think it's pretty interesting. I'm with you.

[Tim Miller]

Anyway, I'm not asking you to be a media critic. You're on this. That was more of a rhetorical question. Okay, we got to keep moving because there's more. Howard Lutnick, our new Commerce Department secretary. He is also a big investor in Bitcoin. Sons now run the business, and he is related. Explain how he's related to Tether. That the stable coin that you were referencing earlier.

[Zeke Fox]

So even within the crypto world, Tether's had kind of a dodgy reputation for years. It had to settle a lawsuit with New York's attorney general, who had alleged that Tether had lied about the dollars that were backing the coin. And because of this, Tether had a lot of trouble finding anyone to hold its giant pile of money, which is a key part of the business. You need someone who has access to, like, the American financial system to hold your money. But Tether was based, like, nowhere in the war. It's one of those sort of stateless companies, and it was having issues with this. So Lutnick, who runs, like, a reputable New York investment bank called Caner Fitzgerald, he stepped up and he offered to hold Tether's money. And without that backing, it would have been a lot harder for Tether to keep growing and be as successful as it's been. And like we were saying before, this is a cryptocurrency company whose product has become really popular with criminals around the world. So what we've learned since that recently is that Lutnik, as part of agreeing to hold Tether's money, he also was able to purchase a stake in the company, which is a big deal, because Tether, it's incredibly profitable. The company has, like, 100 employees, and it makes more money than BlackRock. Ticket made $13 billion last year. I mean, this is a company that was dreamed up by a child actor from the Mighty Ducks.

[Tim Miller]

Which character in the Mighty Ducks.

[Zeke Fox]

So not a main character. In the beginning, Gordon Bombay has a flashback, and he plays, like, young Gordon Bombay who misses the penalty shot.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, young Gordon Bombay.

[Jared Moskowitz]

All right.

[Zeke Fox]

And it's run by this Italian guy who's a former plastic surgeon who has never given an interview. The guy who until recently was the CEO was so elusive that when I started looking into Tether a couple of years ago, people told me they thought the CEO didn't really exist. I tracked him down, and he is real. This is, like, a very weird company that was really legitimized by Lutnick. And Lutnick started vouching for them publicly. He gave an interview to Bloomberg from Davos, where he was like, hey, Tether, I've seen their money. They got the money. You can trust them. Something like that. And that also was really helpful. So it was kind of controversial. At his confirmation hearing, he got asked a lot of questions about his relationship with Tether and what he thinks about its use for money laundering. And he kind of repeated his defense of the company and said, hey, Tether works with law enforcement. They're against crime. They want to stop it. You know, I've helped them improve their compliance. He just got confirmed. So he'll be the commerce secretary.

[Tim Miller]

That's our commerce secretary. Okay. Elon is also deeply invested in this stuff. Was a big pusher of Dogecoin. Eric Adams, who just, you know, got pardoned.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Is.

[Tim Miller]

Is mobbed up in crypto world. And so I want to talk about the policy side of this, but is there any other Trump 2.0 connections worth mentioning? Andreessen, Big advisors, big pusher of this.

[Zeke Fox]

His crypto czar, David Sachs, is an investor in Solana, which is like the network that the Meme Coins run on. So. So with these Meme Coins, right, it seems pretty weird. Like, is the government going to do anything about this? Is like a question you might ask.

[Tim Miller]

You think they'd be regulated? Like, I'm for gambling, for example. I'm pro gambling. Vegas is a very highly regulated industry. Gambling is a very highly regulated industry. It's like, you want to gamble and Meme Coins, okay, But, like, shouldn't there be regulation? But, like, the guy who is ostensibly would be in charge of that is now the cryptos are. Is an investor in the exchange where they trade the Meme Coins. So probably not a lot of incentive, more or less.

[Zeke Fox]

And he's come out and said, these are collectibles. These are digital collectibles, which is code for they should be unregulated like baseball cards instead.

[Tim Miller]

So the other things is we have named to the oversight of this is this Brian Quinten who worked for Marc Andreessen's VC firm. The firm was the leading backer, one of the leading backers of a crypto pro crypto political action committee. So this guy's going to be now at the cftc. We got, you know, fox hen house situation. They've also been pushing for this bitcoin reserve where I guess they would put the government, our government would start investing into this. So, you know, talk about any of the policy implications. There's.

[Zeke Fox]

Yeah, the bitcoin reserve is one of the craziest policies that has been put on the table here. And I saw Trump propose this at the bitcoin conference in Nashville last year and I was just shocked that he was repeating so many of the industry's talking points. And yeah, one Republican senator has sort of spelled out some details for this and she would have the US government spend $100 billion to buy Bitcoin. And as I explained before, people are not using bitcoin for anything. So the pitch now that bitcoiners have is that this is digital gold. The idea with the bitcoin reserve is that the price of bitcoin will inevitably go up and therefore if the government should get in early and make money by trading it. And the thing to me is that this is a handout to anybody who already has bitcoin. No one has any reason to buy bitcoin. You don't need it for anything. The point of bitcoin now is the price going up. And so at this point the price is very high. So you or I buying bitcoin is not going to do anything for the price. They need bigger pools of money. What's the biggest pool of money? The government. So that's like the bitcoiners. It's been actually their plan for a couple of years. It seemed very far fetched. But ever since they got El Salvador on board, a lot of bitcoiners were like, hey, I think we can get other countries in on this too. And they didn't have much luck until they came across Trump who hasn't done it yet, to be fair.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, sure. But I mean the fact that they're even talking about it is ludicrous. We had the president of Argentina, Javier Milei, he got in on this scam and there was a cryptocurrency libra that launched and there's just this massive run up of the coin and like this whole pump and dump rug pull thing, like just happened on super speed. Like it's seven, a couple hours, like huge. You can tell me how much money actually went into it. But a huge run up and then crash, you know, Malay is like taking no responsibility for this. Tell people what happened in this, in this situation. And then my last question is like, to be generous to the authentic bitcoin advocates. Why aren't they matter? I guess would be my point. If you actually did think bitcoin was valuable, you would think that prominent people like Trump and Milei just running these obvious rug pull scams would have those folks upset. But I guess not because potentially they're going to put money in. A number will go up, but I don't know, you tell me.

[Zeke Fox]

Yeah, I think that's right. And some of them are mad. But I think the madness is balanced with this idea that it's a pretty helpful conflict of interest. Yeah, it's like, wow, Trump might actually follow through on deregulating crypto. He's doing it himself. He kind of needs to.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Zeke Fox]

A lot of them have been complaining about the scams, but I think it's a little self serving. With Milei, I thought it was interesting. I mean, this wasn't so different than Trump's meme coin. You know, he tweeted about a coin, it went up, then it went down, people lost money, other people made some money. And Milei had said, you know, he said it's not a scam, it's not his coin. And there's no crying in the casino.

[Tim Miller]

There's no crying in the casino. I'm sorry, I thought it was a currency. Is it currency or is it a casino or is it a digital asset? I am a little bit confused. It kind of seems like it changes depending on what is convenient for the talking point at the moment.

[Zeke Fox]

Yeah. But it's weird. Like the opposition's calling for him to be impeached and this one seems to have been a real scandal, like within crypto world. People seem pretty upset about this compared to the kind of muted reaction to Trump having a meme coin, which also went up a lot and then down quite a lot.

[Tim Miller]

Wild Zeke, I think that we're going to have a lot of reason to talk. I really appreciate you coming on. I don't know that it's sunk in with folks just how mobbed up the Trump inner circle is in crypto world. And people obviously have learned about the coin at this point, but Witkoff and Lutnick and all that. So I'm sure more will come of this. I look forward to reading your reporting and we'll be talking again soon.

[Zeke Fox]

Thanks a lot, Tim. Great talking with you.

[Tim Miller]

Up next, Florida Congressman Jared Moskowitz. Hey, y'all. I've been on the content grind, as you have noticed, but I'm getting to the point where if you start having that late afternoon coffee, it prevents me from having a good night's sleep. So I was turning to an alternative that makes you feel a little less jittery. And that is our sponsor, Mud Water. If you're trying to cut those coffee jitters or just want to avoid that 2pm crash, mud water is the cozy, nourishing drink to help you power through. It's got a blend of chai, turmeric and adaptogen mushrooms to actually help you feel more focused, not wired. It's smooth, it's steady, and honestly, it just makes you feel better. So if you're looking for that afternoon coffee alternative, try it Today and Save Big. Our listeners get up to 43% off your entire order, free shipping and a free rechargeable frother if you head to M U d w t r.com and use the code the Bulwark at checkout. And now Mud Water is available at Target and Sprouts locations in the US So it's never been easier to grab a cup of this winter friendly pick me up. So once again, if you're ready to make the switch to cleaner energy, head to mudwater.com and grab your starter kit today. Right now, our listeners get an exclusive deal, up to 43% off your entire order, plus free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use code the Bulwark, that's right up to 43% off with code the [e-mail] after your purchase, they'll ask you how you found them. Please show your support and let them know we sent you. Keep your energy natural and refreshing all year long with Mud Water because life's too short for anything less than clean, delicious energy. And we're back with Jared Moskowitz, Democratic congressman from Parkland, Florida. He was elected in 2022. He's formerly Florida's Director of Emergency management. It's Jared Moskowitz. How you doing, Congressman?

[Jared Moskowitz]

What's going on, Tim? How you doing?

[Tim Miller]

I'm pumped to have you back.

[Jared Moskowitz]

I like this casual look for both of us, by the way.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, we're Just hanging. We're just a couple guys hanging. You know, that's what the people demanded right in the election. Just bros hanging out in like their T shirts.

[Jared Moskowitz]

They voted against the status quo. So I took my suit off.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, great. I'm for it. I like what you've been doing altogether. Not just your outfit, but you're on Fox engaging with Jesse Waters. That's good. You've been calling these Republicans on their BS on the budget stuff. So I want to get into the tactical, but we do have a couple of news items we got to do. First. Yesterday there's a press conference where Trump explained who he thought was to blame for the Ukraine war. I want to listen to that.

[Donald Trump]

But today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it. Three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land. Everything. Almost all of the land. And no people would have been killed and no city would have been demolished and not one dome would have been knocked down. But they chose not to do it that way.

[Tim Miller]

You shouldn't have started it. They chose not to do it that way. You might think you'd be talking about Putin there, but he was talking about Zelensky. Wondering what you thought about that.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Well, it's funny, you almost want him to keep going because you feel like the next statement is gonna be like, in fact, the deal we had is they were gonna keep Ukraine and we were gonna give them Gaza, so we were gonna expand Ukraine. That was the deal we had. And the Palestinian people would have loved it. You know, like you just wanted him to keep going, just to see like where, where this was headed. But look, Trump, and he's been doing this for a long time, is very good at taking someone else's argument and weak point and co opting it. Right. Anything that we, you know, he says it's weaponized government, right? And then he weaponizes it more. But he gets away with it because the Democrats weaponized it. He's fixing it with more weaponization. And this is the same thing. He's literally taking the argument against Russia and using it against Ukraine. Obviously this is not productive. It's not where we want the situation to be with Ukraine. I do want the war to come to an end. I do think that's important. I do think Ukraine is probably not going back to the pre2014 border. I think that's probably the case. But what they give up to get to a deal after that, I think has massive repercussions, not just for Europe and our relationships in Europe, but also for China and Taiwan. We know that the Chinese are watching what happens here. And if you look at the European reaction, I mean, they do not seem happy with the developments of the last week. But I then take a step back from that, and I wanna take my own advice that I've been giving myself, which is I'm not gonna react to everything that Trump says in the moment that he says it. I'm not doing that the next four years like we did the first four years. Because if we were doing that, then let's just talk about all of these things. Canada is gonna be the 51st state, right? Governor Trudeau. That was kind of funny. I laughed at that one. Governor Trudeau, they're gonna be the 51st state. That's not gonna happen, of course, because if Canada became the 51st state, there would be two Californias. Republicans could never win another election. So that's not gonna happen. Panama, we're gonna take the canal, maybe with military force. Not taking that off the table. That's not gonna happen. We're getting greener.

[Tim Miller]

We are making the Panamanians take migrants who are not criminals, who came to the country, like, for religious freedom. And there's a New York Times article yesterday where an Iranian Christian came to America hoping for religious freedom, and we deported them to Panama as part of our effort to bully them over the canal. So that's a real thing that's happening.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Yeah, yeah. No, but I would say the language that Trump was using. Okay, none of that's gonna happen. We're gonna get Greenland also. Tim. We're getting Greenland, okay. From our Danish friends. That's also not gonna happen. And then, of course, Gaza, the Riviera of the Middle East. We're just gonna get it. How are you Gonna get it, Mr. President? You gonna buy it? No, no, no, we're not gonna buy it. First of all, who would be the realtor for that? That would be a great 6%, Jared, I think, probably. Okay, you're gonna take it. You're gonna take it by military force? No, no, no. No troops. Well, how are you Gonna get it, Mr. President? We're just gonna get it. And so, you know, all of this distraction that he's great at, that we kind of jump at all of the time. I'm trying to have a different strategy, going back to tactics. I'm just trying to have a different strategy and take A step back and we'll have a quick response to it, but then just, I'm not gonna be at a 10 all the time. I have to have degrees of outrage here. We can't just always be at a 10. Just like everything isn't a constitutional crisis. I hear that a lot nowadays. Oh, that's a constitutional crisis. That's a constitutional crisis. Well, if everything's a constitutional crisis, nothing's a constitutional crisis. And eventually, if Trump does disregard the Supreme Court and we do have a constitutional crisis, it won't mean anything because we've already said everything else is a constitutional crisis. And so, look, obviously what Trump is saying now is similar to what he said during the campaign, which many people found problematic. There seemed to be a pullback of that language in his first couple of weeks as president. But now we're back to trying to curry favor with Putin. I actually believe, by the way, this is just my belief. I believe that there won't be a deal anytime soon because I think Trump's gonna give Putin kind of everything he kind of wants, and then Putin's gonna say he wants more and then that's gonna blow the deal up.

[Tim Miller]

Let's just talk about the deal real quick. So I wanna get back to tactics because this was where I was going next. I wanna listen to Rubio just really quick, and I wanna talk about the substance of what they here. Let's listen to Marco.

[Jared Moskowitz]

The credible opportunities that exist to partner with the Russians geopolitically on issues of common interest and frankly, economically on issues that hopefully will be good for the world and will also improve our relations in the long term between these two important countries.

[Tim Miller]

I don't even really get this deal from like the deal making standpoint. Like, even if you took aside morals or the US values or allies and just said, let's cut a good deal with Russia, that's good for us. What is the deal exactly? What is Russia giving up in this deal? We don't need economic partnership with them. They need sanctions relief from us. It's not like we're like getting a lot of Russian products here that like, you know, that they're a huge market for us. I guess if you're a diamond jeweler in New York or like a really high end real estate person, you might need some Russian, like, other than that, like, what are we getting out of this deal? Like, it seems to me like we're giving Ukraine away from nothing. Just, like looking at it from just a deal standpoint.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Yeah, I mean, look, I like Marco a Lot. I'm happy Marco's the Secretary of State, especially in comparison to some of the other picks. Yes. Remember everything.

[Tim Miller]

What did he say yesterday that would have been different from what, I don't know, Corey Lewandowski would have said as Secretary of State. What did he say different?

[Jared Moskowitz]

Let's not ever get to the point that, that. That we test that difference. Tim, I'm just wondering.

[Tim Miller]

I. I would like to have heard what he said different, that's all.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Just when you think the line can't go any further, we continue to move it. So let's not. Let's not tempt them, please. Your man, Jesse Waters, Marco didn't blink during that statement. Right. And so at the end of the day, there were no specifics there. Right. But I do think there is something happening with this Gaza stuff and this Ukraine stuff, which is Trump wants to prove to the world that he can solve the most difficult foreign policy things. Biden couldn't solve it. No one could solve it. Only he can solve it. He wants the Ukrainians to give up a lot of these, as he says, raw earth materials. Right. And apparently he's asked for so much and the Ukrainians have said no or they've said no to how much he wants. Well, by the way, as soon as they said no to how much he wants, notice the pivot of Trump. Oh, okay. You won't give me what I want, which is these raw earth materials in exchange for our continued investment. No problem. I'll pivot and I'll go. Full direction of Putin won't even invite you to the meeting. I'll get my secretary.

[Tim Miller]

I thought America first was about getting us stuff. We're not getting shit out of this deal. Ukraine is giving up everything. We're creating conflict with our allies. We're adding tariffs to our allies. So that's gonna cost us more money. What do these deals get for us? I haven't seen anything that is an America first deal yet to me.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Oh, the slogans. You're throwing out the slogans.

[Tim Miller]

I'm just trying to judge him on the metrics that he set for himself. I don't like that. I'm a neocon. I'm not a real America first realist. But what I'm saying is he's failing on his own metrics. Unless America first is just Trump First. I do get that. That's. Maybe that's all this is about. Trump.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Well, by the way, the Trump administration has even stopped posting the metrics of the deportation data because the data is actually below the deportations of Joe Biden at this moment in time.

[Tim Miller]

I saw that.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Look, this is no different than we're gonna fix egg prices on day one. Egg prices are now the highest they've ever been. This is no different than 24 hours. I can solve the Ukraine war in 24 hours. Right? Well, we're a little beyond that. Inflation. I'll solve inflation. I'll get interest rates down. Inflation's bumping, interest rates are stagnant. And look, this is the hyperbole of the campaign that we saw the first time around. And it works, which is why he does it. People buy it. And then we can distract people with, we're buying Greenland, we're buying Gaza, Canada, Panama. Right. And you know, it's like everybody who watches a car accident, you know, and slows traffic down, everyone's jumping at these distractions or, you know, when all this other stuff's going on. So look, we have to watch the Ukraine thing. It's obviously very concerning the current trajectory coming out of the United States. Ukraine is going to have to give up something, right? This idea, this idea that they're not going to.

[Tim Miller]

Russia should probably give up something too. Russia shouldn't just get stuff that's, that's, I guess my main.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Russia is going to have to retract from some of their positions. There's no question. Oh yeah, no question about that. And is also the future. What's the future look like for this region? But obviously we will have major problems with China and we'll have major problems with our European allies. Major problems with our European allies if we just look like we're kowtowing to Putin. In fact, let me give you a real scenario. Trump proposes a deal and they say no. What's his repercussion? We're going to not supply the weapons anymore. Okay, fine, he says, I'm not gonna supply the weapons in here. And Europe says we'll step up. Okay, so now not only did Trump not solve the problem, now he's been cut out from the table cuz Europe decides to move forward anyway and there's no deal. And now we have a real Europe Russia war, which can affect the US economy in dramatic ways. So he's gotta be very, in my opinion, careful on how far he goes to where he pushes Europe into having no choice but to continue the war without us.

[Tim Miller]

Let's move on to what I really want to talk to you about, which is the budget stuff, because they're in a real pickle on this. And I liked what you tweeted I forget or said on an interview they're like that said, basically I'm for a balanced budget amendment, let's do it, let's balance the budget this year and call them on their BS because getting to a budget is very challenging. Just as one microcosm last night Trump said on Sean Hannity that he doesn't want to touch Medicaid today. He said, I support the House budget which cuts Medicaid by like 800 billion or something. So you've got Chip Roy I got here said every Republican needs to actually step up to honor what they've campaigned on when they say they want to balance the budget and reduce spending. So there's Chip Roy, your colleague. Meanwhile, Trump wants extension of the tax cuts. No tax on tips. Like the math just doesn't math for them. And so the question is, how did the Democrats deal with that? And I'm curious your view.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Well, so there are lots of things going on with this whole situation, right. First let's just start with the math. Right? And people know this. We've heard mandate. The American people voted for mandate. We have a mandate mandate. Okay, we get it. Except in the House they only have a three vote majority. Doesn't really sound like much of a mandate. Very different from 2016 when I think Trump had like a 25 plus vote majority.

[Tim Miller]

2010 or. And you can just go back to any.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Exactly. Doesn't sound like much of a mandate in the House. So the numbers are a problem. In fact, the numbers right now, they don't even have the three vote majority. Cuz you're missing two members from Florida. They have a one vote majority, but in April they'll go back to a three vote majority. So that's the math, number one. Number two is you have Doge, right. And Doge is doging. Right. It's doing way more than they said it was gonna do. They said it was gonna audit and you know, present the findings, give it to Congress. You know, they're cutting things and firing people and do all of that. And they're saying they're saving all of this money. Let's not dispute that. Let's just say what they say.

[Tim Miller]

Well, we do have to dispute just the one thing really quick. The New York Times saying that they said that they cut an $8 billion contract, but they got a zero wrong. And it was 8 million. It was only 8 million. They thought they got 8 billion, but it was only 8 million.

[Jared Moskowitz]

What a zero between friends.

[Tim Miller]

We do have to just dispute that one fact. But anyway Besides that, let's not.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Look, there's lots of stuff we can dispute, but let's just go with, let's just go with their argument, right, that they have found all this fraud, waste and abuse and it's $100 billion. That's what they say. Okay, okay. Well the government is going to shut down on March 14th. We're going to run out of money. Okay? And we've been doing a cross. That's how we've been running our government, just by continuing resolution, which is by the way, how you get this problem. The Republicans have done continuing resolutions for the last two years. Mike Johnson's on the path to do another continuing resolution. That's how you get this problem because you continue programs that shouldn't be continued. Right? And that's how you get waste and abuse. Okay, now let's also get to the issue that there are 30 to 40 Republicans that will never vote for a clean CR. Never. And even if Trump calls them and whittles that number down, let's say the best case scenario for them is 15, okay? We whittled it in half. So this is the same thing we've been talking about for the last two years. They have to come to the Democrats in order to get a CR in order to keep government open. Well, there's just one problem, Tim. Let's go back to the hundred billions of dollars of fraud, the hundred billion they say of fraud, waste and abuse. Well, a clean CR would refund all of that stuff. It would refund it, okay. Cuz you would continue last year's stuff. Well, we can't do that. You can't tell the American people we have found all this fraud, waste and abuse and then tell Congress, but refund it all, okay? Not only can you not do that, cuz it's fiscally ridiculous, it's also a trap for Democrats, okay, that they think we're gonna walk into where they can be like they want to keep the government open so bad that we're going to put a clean cr. They're going to refund all that fraud, waste and abuse. And then we're going to come out and be like, can you believe the Democrats? They refunded the condoms to Gaza, which wasn't a thing, but that's what they'll say. And so what I've been out there talking ad nauseam on the floor and in interviews saying is Speaker Johnson now has less than a month to pass the 12 individual appropriations bills. That's how you pass a budget. A promise Speaker Johnson Made when he became speaker, they had passed seven of them and then stopped. Why? Cuz they're fighting amongst themselves. Republicans can't agree amongst themselves. So right now we are on a collision course that the government is gonna shut down on March 14th and Johnson's gonna come forward with a clean CR with California wildfire funding. And he thinks we're just gonna go for it. I wanna be very clear. I don't wanna close the government. Okay? I don't think Democrats should have a close the government as a strategy. I don't think we should do that. Republicans did that many times before. But I don't think we should do that. But I think we should be intellectually honest with the American people. They have told you they have found all this fraud, waste and abuse. Fine. Then we can't continue it. We must pass a new budget or. Elon, you must be transparent. You must send the list of all of this stuff to Congress so we can attach it to a cr, which would defund all of that stuff for an up or down vote. So these are the choices I think Speaker Johnson has. A clean CR is not a choice for me as an individual.

[Tim Miller]

Do you think any of your colleagues will be interested in a clean CR with California fires? It would seem like a ridiculous thing to vote for. For all the reasons that you laid out. In addition to the fact that the Democrats don't actually get anything about that there are Republicans in California, you didn't get anything about that deal. That would sound to me like the Trump Ukraine deal.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Well, remember, this goes to how they negotiate, which is. Well, if you don't take it, we're gonna only send the money with strings attached. Right. Which is the stuff they were floating out there for a couple weeks. Look, I'm a former emergency management director. Disaster aid is very important. I understand how important it was. But back in December, when they tied disaster aid to raising the debt ceiling, something that had never happened before, Right. Democrats did not vote for that. And eventually they uncoupled it and we got disaster aid two days later. So the disaster aid for California is gonna happen, okay? It has to happen. Because if they don't send it to California, then what they're doing is they're breaking the system. And it's only a matter of time until disaster aid doesn't go to Texas or Florida. And so if they start that game, it's extremely dangerous that will come. But I think Democrats need to hold Republicans to their position. And I wanna get to the debt, okay? Doge isn't Just about efficiency, government efficiency, fixing computers, making things faster. It's not just about trying to shrink the workforce. It's also about saving money. Okay, well, $100 billion. Look, Tim, if that's true, that's a lot of money. We cannot downplay that. That, to Americans, is a lot of money. But in a 30, it's probably not true. But if it is true, let's not go down that rabbit hole. Let's just say their math is mathing. Okay. They found $100 billion. Well, in a $36 trillion debt, 100 billion. Right. Is not a lot of money in that relative speak. It's a lot of money in general. It is, but not in $36 trillion debt. So how are we going to get at that debt, which is what Doge wants to do, and that's what the Freedom Caucus has been talking about for a long time, is we gotta get at that debt. Well, we're gonna have to probably have steep cuts in some departments. Okay. And we're probably gonna have to close loopholes. Cause you're gonna have to raise revenue. Trump did that before, by the way. Getting rid of mortgage deduction. Right. He's done that.

[Tim Miller]

Or maybe not extend the tax cuts on the highest income people.

[Jared Moskowitz]

So let's get there. Or not extend the tax cuts. Right, but what they've proposed at this moment in time, even with the cuts to Medicaid, right, Based on math, they want to do a $4.5 trillion tax cut. They want to cut, I think, a trillion and a half dollars. Well, if that math is correct, it looks like we're adding 3 trillion to the debt.

[Tim Miller]

And they floated today, by the way, since they put out that budget Elon floated today, sending people a $5,000 Doge check, which would be about another trillion. So, you know, so 3 or 4 trillion, depending on whether you're listening to Elon or Mike.

[Jared Moskowitz]

You know, we gotta hold Republicans to their positions. They care about the debt. Then we should add no money to the debt. They care about eliminating money from government. Then we should hold them to that position. They say they found all this money, 100 billion. Doge found it. Then hold them to that position. No clean cr. We gotta hold them to their positions. And we gotta watch the wedges that exist within the Republican Party themselves. We gotta let them go at each other, which is what we saw the last two years. That will happen. And we're gonna find out if they're really only fiscal hawks. When Democrats are in control, we're gonna find out if they really care about the debt. We're gonna find out if Thomas Massie and chip Roy and 10 or 12 others, if they're willing to hold the line on this. And we're gonna find out, really, if Doge is serious about going after the debt. If they're serious about going after the debt, which is what Elon always talked about. Elon talked about we're going off the fiscal cliff, we gotta cut our spending. Right. He's talked about that. Well, if that is serious, okay. And you're tweeting things like balanced budget, which he has tweeted, which is why I'm coming with that resolution, then at the end of the day, they're either not gonna be able to extend the tax cuts. Right. Or they're gonna figure out how to either balance it with some cuts and raising some revenue. Okay. Or they're gonna add to the debt. And then this whole conversation about the debt no longer has any merit whatsoever ever, ever again. And, yes, I know someone's probably thinking, well, Jared Trump added, you know, he added more to the debt in his four years. And I would say, yes, but this time around, they've made the debt the issue. They've made it the issue. So since they've made it the issue, we gotta hold them to it.

[Tim Miller]

I agree. So do you have any Republicans yet, co signing with you on your resolution.

[Jared Moskowitz]

On the balanced budget? Yeah, I think I'll get some Freedom Caucus members.

[Tim Miller]

You do? Yeah.

[Jared Moskowitz]

But Johnson's not going to pick it up. He's not going to hear it.

[Tim Miller]

That's exciting. I think that it's important that they get on the record on this, though, and this is where we are completely aligned. And I think that maybe they are coming to realize how big of a pickle they're in. The only way out of this, frankly, for them, at the end of the day, is Trump bullying them all to push through something that is absolutely, like, fiscally irresponsible in the extreme. And maybe that'll happen. And maybe Chip, Roy and all of those guys will have to swallow their pride. I don't know, but we'll see. They should be forced to make a judgment call on that.

[Jared Moskowitz]

There's three ways out of the situation. One is they can make a deal with us. Right. That would be bipartisan and bring responsibility. You know, I think there are enough Democrats that hopefully it's a good deal. Yeah, look, I think there are enough Democrats, you know, looking at the fact that, yes, we need to make government more efficient. Yes, we need to figure out how to curtail our spending. I think the American people voted for that and I think Democrats recognize that. Okay, so they could talk to us.

[Tim Miller]

Have they done that yet?

[Jared Moskowitz]

They have not. They have not done that. Two, the government could shut down. And when I say they could talk to us, I don't mean Johnson, cuz he's not in charge. Right. I mean the White House.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, yeah, Elon.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Correct.

[Tim Miller]

Elon hasn't come in front of the committees yet. Like they've come to meet with you guys. Like, where can you get a deal? No, none of that.

[Jared Moskowitz]

No, none of that. Okay, so they could talk to us. Number two is they can shut the government down. Right. And the government could shut down. I say indefinitely, just because I don't know how long it would take to reopen. The government could shut down indefinitely and they could try to pressure campaign their way through it. Or three, is the fiscal conservatives, to your point, just disregard everything they've ever stood for for the last couple of decades and give in to adding to the debt. These are the three ways out.

[Tim Miller]

I'm excited to see how that turns out. All right, last thing for you. Just because I know this is something you've been speaking out on, I try to not ignore when things like this happen. There was a protest that got kind of violent yesterday in Brooklyn Borough park, protesting residents of an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood. We continue to see this around the country and I just want to make sure it's not being ignored. So I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Yeah, I mean, look, I could do an hour on this. And this is something that's been going on now for probably a solid year, right? We saw it on college campuses, we saw it in streets. You know, one thing that people always talk about is that you can be anti Israel without being anti Semitic. And I would say, Tim, I think that is possible. I think you can be anti Israel without being anti Semitic. I think it's possible. It's just not happening. Right? I mean, it's theoretically possible. Okay. And so they tell us all the time, oh, Jared, don't conflate our criticism of Israel with being anti Semitic. And I would say I'm not conflating it. You're the ones who are conflating it. I mean, why are you protesting in front of a synagogue? Why are you beating up Jewish kids? Because they're just wearing a Jewish star. You don't know their position on Israel. You don't know if they support Netanyahu. And so to be clear, everything you're seeing in this country, on these college campuses and in the streets, is antisemitic protests. Not every individual person that's there, but the protest, the genesis of these protests are anti Semitic. They're going to Jewish delis, right? They see an Orthodox guy on the street, they're accosting them. And every Jewish parent around this country, when they saw the stuff going on in college campuses, knew deep down that if it wasn't a Jewish student that was being surrounded and assaulted and prevented going from class, but it was another minority group, we know it would not have gotten past lunchtime on the first day. Look, there are a lot of Jewish families in my district, Democrat families, that voted for Donald Trump because of this reason. Okay? Donald Trump only lost my district by a point and a half. And I have a big Jewish population in my district.

[Tim Miller]

What did you win by?

[Jared Moskowitz]

I won by five. This was a big deal within the Jewish community, which is about 12% of the voting bloc here in my district. And that's because Trump had tough language. So we're gonna have to see now what happens. Trump talked about, obviously, people here on student visas that are going to these pro Hamas rallies, deporting them. Trump's talked about getting firm on the universities. And look, these universities who didn't enforce their code of conduct, who took months and months and months to figure out, how do we prevent the assaulting of Jewish students on our campuses. And totally failed to watch that hearing last year where the university presidents couldn't explain with an easy question that now has made Elise Stefanik famous. Okay? This is a big problem in this country. It's why I've been fighting against not just my progressive friends who have been silent. Okay. But also the folks on the right who are allowing all this Nazi speech online, you know, because, you know, in the nature of free speech, you can literally see as we have allowed more Nazis on Twitter or on X, you're seeing the number of anti Semitic, violent, anti Semitic attacks rise. Speech and violence are rising at the same time. And so we're at historic levels, historic levels of anti Semitism since World War II. And the Jewish community is very worried about where all of this is going.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it's Parkland week here at the Bulwark. I started another pod. FY pod. People should go subscribe with your boy Cameron Caskey, who went to Parkland. We talked about this issue yesterday. And anti Semitism among youth. And it is, in this case, it really is a both side situation. Like, if you just look at the numbers, it actually was like there was a recent poll where people were asked directly like, do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Jews? Like, it was an extremely straightforward question. And among the youngest cohort, the highest group was Republic was Trump supporters, but not far below that was Democrats. And, and the numbers were like 20% higher I don't have in front of me, but significantly higher than among, you know, our age and up. So. And it's a real thing.

[Jared Moskowitz]

No, the alt, the alt right and the far left, it's like one of the few things they agree on. They get there different ways. By the way, the far left gets there by significant anti Israel wanting the country to be wiped off the map and the far right gets there with pro Nazi talk.

[Tim Miller]

Thanks so much, Congressman. And since you were doing it right on Fox, I'm going to leave people with what they used to call it on the Daily Show, a moment of Zen. A moment of Zen of you giving it back to Jesse Waters. Thanks for coming on the show. Let's all take a listen to that and we'll see you back here tomorrow for another edition of the Borg podcast. Peace.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Why do you guys go out there and sing songs and act crazy and look like you're pro Waste, fraud and abuse? You know, every American now thinks the Democrats are defending waste, fraud and abuse. Well, look, what do you want us to do, storm the Capitol? I mean, that's already been done. That's our job. Leave that to us. Moskovitz.

[Unknown Speaker]

Straight into my hard drive Give me that wound Straight into my hard drive, baby yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I'm thinking in my garden skipping My name is sue is watching me from a window oh, mama, did you tell Sue I'm a millionaire now, baby Trading that crypto.

[Zeke Fox]

Oh, yeah no Give me that.

[Tim Miller]

Fire.

[Unknown Speaker]

Give me that give me that fire Crying on the stranger is so very soothing I'm outside my school My teacher took me to one side and told me I was gonna I left vanguard neoliberal don't be afraid to make to make money, boy don't be afraid to make to make money, boy don't be afraid to make to make money, boy don't be afraid to make to make.

[Jared Moskowitz]

Money.

[Unknown Speaker]

Straight into my hard drive Give me that Straight into my hard drive, baby yeah, yeah, yeah Non shifter ruler Put it on the table and go watch your chatter Cleaning mom's talk to me on the Alb the next morning, he shouts from his door don't be afraid to make to make money, boy don't be afraid to make to make money boy, don't be afraid to make to make money boy, don't be afraid to.

[Tim Miller]

The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.