The Bulwark Podcast
Episode: JB Pritzker and Franklin Foer: Like Living in an Authoritarian Regime
Date: October 14, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guests: J.B. Pritzker (Governor of Illinois), Franklin Foer (The Atlantic)
Episode Overview
This episode tackles the rising sense of authoritarianism in the U.S. under the Trump administration, focusing on recent ICE and CBP operations in Chicago and Illinois. Governor J.B. Pritzker details the on-the-ground reality: ramped-up ICE/CBP activities, militarization of Chicago, and the political and legal battles raging in response. The conversation turns to the dangers of normalization, governmental and corporate capitulation, and the urgent need for outspoken resistance. In the second half, Atlantic writer Franklin Foer discusses his reporting on Israeli hostages, Trump’s role in Middle East negotiations, the threat to press freedom in America, and the dystopian trajectory of big tech and AI.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Reality in Chicago: ICE, CBP, and “Show Your Papers”
[01:09 – 11:46]
- Militarization and ICE Escalation
- Pritzker describes a Chicago where ICE and CBP, backed by National Guard troops, have increased aggressive tactics—stopping people across the city and suburbs, demanding citizenship papers, and waiting outside churches and public spaces.
- “We now live in a country where you must carry your citizenship papers… maybe because you and I are white, we don’t get asked as often, but it is happening to people who are US citizens. I don’t care how you look, that is wrong.” – J.B. Pritzker [03:41]
- CBP’s Legal Justifications & Overreach
- CBP claims they can operate in Chicago because Lake Michigan’s shore is a “border,” a dubious legal argument. “They're using it as an excuse to have CBP here… all in my view, an effort to get people used to the idea of the militarization of our cities.” – Pritzker [07:09]
- Advice to Residents
- Pritzker, in a somber tone, admits he's telling people who might be targeted to carry their passports—something he “never thought” he’d say as an American.
- President’s Remarks and Local Crime
- The President suggested Pritzker “should beg him for help.” Pritzker rebuts, crediting recent major drops in Chicago crime to local initiatives, not federal militarization.
- “If you want to help us, send us civilian law enforcement, FBI, DEA, ATF… But you know what’s happening to those three agencies? They’re grabbing people out of those agencies and pushing them over into ICE.” – Pritzker [10:20]
2. Authoritarian Tactics & Corporate Capitulation
[14:51 – 17:12]
- Major tech companies (Apple, Facebook) have bowed to federal pressure and removed ICE-alert content, contributing to a chilling effect.
- Pritzker laments widespread “capitulation”—not only by companies but also universities and fearful politicians, including Democrats.
- “It’s a frightening world… people are frightened for themselves or their companies or their universities, and they're giving in.” – Pritzker [14:51]
3. Community Response & The Need for Outspokenness
[15:56 – 19:01]
- Illinois has funded programs alerting communities to ICE activity, and Pritzker praises emerging grassroots pushback—residents filming ICE agents, staging peaceful protests (“No Kings” protest upcoming).
- However, he sharply criticizes Democrats for timid responses:
- “I can name on maybe ten fingers… the number of people who have a platform… using it to speak out.” – Pritzker [17:29]
- Strategy: With federal powerlessness, focus must be on “mitigating damage” now and “winning in 2026” — referencing Democratic prospects in upcoming elections.
4. Redistricting Wars & Election Consequences
[19:01 – 22:16]
- Tim Miller and Pritzker discuss the dilemma of mid-decade redistricting in response to aggressive GOP gerrymandering—whether Illinois Democrats should act similarly or “do the right thing.”
- Pritzker: “A lot of things that never happened in history seem to be happening right now… we have to get everybody engaged and do more than we’ve ever done before.” [21:13]
- Sense of exhaustion: “I decided… to look at how many months... have been precedented times, not unprecedented. And the answer was like eight months.” – Pritzker [21:59]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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Pritzker on the present era:
- “Honestly, it feels like we’re living in an authoritarian regime.” [05:25]
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On racial profiling by ICE:
- “It's because you’re brown and you're not producing your papers, they will detain you… held in their car… for like three hours… to see if maybe you are a US citizen or maybe you’re not.” [05:25]
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On Stephen Miller’s influence:
- “Stephen Miller… is aiming to have Donald Trump become an authoritarian leader.” [11:48]
Franklin Foer Segment: Hostages, Trump, and Threatened Press Freedom
1. Human Resilience Amid Horror – Israeli Hostages
[25:22 – 29:29]
- Foer’s Atlantic piece (about hostage Eli Shahrabi’s ordeal) highlights the tenacity of humans under extreme suffering. He describes the psychological torture of not knowing if loved ones are alive, combined with physical deprivation.
- “I just wanted to celebrate kind of the radical optimism that survival mandates.” – Foer [28:11]
2. Filter Bubbles of Suffering & Simultaneous Narratives
[29:29 – 32:08]
- Miller and Foer discuss the difficulty of processing competing narratives around the hostage situation in Israel/Palestine, and social media’s role in amplifying emotional disconnect between “filter bubbles.”
- Foer references Trump’s surprising diplomatic success in securing hostages, outlining why this moment of “coexistence” could, in theory, open a new path—if Trump could focus, and if Netanyahu’s government shifted.
3. Trump’s Paradox: Defects as Diplomatic Assets
[32:08 – 39:21]
- Trump’s style—usually a liability—becomes a diplomatic tool in specific contexts (hostage negotiation). But both Miller and Foer are wary of the “psychodrama” expecting anti-Trump voices to praise his actions as redemptive.
- “The world… our stage is not the only stage. And so if somehow his defects… turn out to be virtues in another setting, that’s… that’s life. Things are complicated.” – Foer [38:02]
- Foer warns Trump’s corruption, while maybe pragmatically useful for short-term deals, is corrosive and undermines American sovereignty.
4. Press Clampdown – Authoritarian Playbook
[44:58 – 46:55]
- Miller brings up the new Pentagon press policy, which requires reporters to only use officially sanctioned information—a move not even Newsmax will support.
- Foer contextualizes this as part of the administration’s broader project to “shape reality” and criminalize dissent:
- “In an authoritarian regime, you have to be able to shape reality. Controlling the press is part of a broader agenda.” [44:58]
5. Tech Authoritarianism & The Singularity
[47:27 – 54:43]
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Revisiting his 2017 book World Without Mind, Foer talks about Silicon Valley’s drive to merge humans with machines—now supercharged by AI. He argues that increasing manipulation and narrowing of information is pushing us towards tech-enabled totalitarianism.
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Miller and Foer debate whether resistance is realistic. Foer is more optimistic about Middle East peace than he is about stopping tech authoritarianism, joking:
- “So you have optimism for peace in the Middle East, but no optimism for avoiding the Singularity? Frank.” – Miller [51:33]
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On possible resistance: A “populist front” against tech moguls, uniting odd bedfellows from the far right to the left, could emerge—but the path is murky at best.
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:09] ICE militarization and “show your papers” mentality takes hold in Chicago
- [03:41] Pritzker’s firsthand accounts of ICE racial profiling and detainment
- [07:09] CBP’s legal fiction & justification for presence in Chicago
- [10:20] Federal agents redirected from agencies like FBI/DEA to ICE
- [14:51] Corporate and university capitulation to authoritarian pressure
- [17:29] Lack of vocal Democratic resistance
- [19:35] Illinois redistricting dilemma and electoral strategy
- [25:22] Foer on Israeli hostages and radical human resilience
- [32:13] Why Trump’s authoritarian style “works” in some foreign policy scenarios
- [44:58] Pentagon press crackdown and its authoritarian resonance
- [47:27] Big tech, AI, and the dystopian possibility of the “Singularity”
Tone & Language
- Conversation is frank, urgent, and often darkly humorous—reflecting both the gravity of current events and the hosts’ determination not to succumb to despair.
- Both guests (Pritzker and Foer) deliver sharp, candid, occasionally exasperated commentary; Pritzker in particular is blunt about the threat of authoritarianism (“this is not the country I grew up in”).
- The host, Tim Miller, brings in self-deprecating humor but frequently pushes for clarity and directness.
Summary for New Listeners
This episode offers a sobering, vivid picture of 2025 America, where ICE raids, militarized streets, and press clampdowns threaten democratic norms. Governor J.B. Pritzker describes living under what feels like an “authoritarian regime” and pleads for louder resistance, while Franklin Foer explores hope, pessimism, and the paradoxes of authoritarian personalities—at home, abroad, and in Silicon Valley. It confronts listeners with the high stakes for liberal democracy, blending detailed reporting, personal reflections, and strategic debates about what to do next.