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- [00:00]
A
This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard. Yeah, I mean if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case Clear sound. These are not standard things. You're only gonna get them with the JBL Tour Pro 3, baby. And I love the sound of JBL when it goes. These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others. Touchscreen smart charging case for one touc instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling and the one of a kind audio transmitter which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment. What more could you want? First doesn't follow. Grab a pair@jbl.com Having MG can make cooking difficult.
- [00:48]
B
But over the years I found some really helpful tools and tips that I'm excited to share. Hi, I'm Alicia. I think cooking should always be fun, creative and of course delicious. These black bean burgers are hearty, full of flavor and MG friendly. You're going to love them.
- [01:05]
A
Check out Alicia's Black Bean burger cooking video and other recipes. Full of tips and tricks for managing common MG symptoms while cooking only at mg-united.com Ready? Let's cook. Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome today. Am I Tim Miller or am I Jesse Waters? I don't know. We'll see. She's the co host on the five on Fox News. She's the co host also of Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway. She's the only woman in America who was on stage at the Fox Patriot Awards yesterday. I saw that on my TV and will be on stage today at Proud Save America's Crooked Con. That's code switching. That's it. That's ability.
- [01:59]
B
It's a crossover for the ages.
- [02:01]
A
Jessica Tarloff. How you doing?
- [02:04]
B
I'm great. It's so nice to be here and meet you in person.
- [02:06]
A
Welcome to the Bulwark Studios.
- [02:07]
B
It's very cool.
- [02:08]
A
Have we not met in person? Is this it?
- [02:10]
B
This is it.
- [02:10]
A
This is our in person meeting. I feel like we have spiritually we've met.
- [02:13]
B
Yeah, we've known each other a long time. If you go that way. But no, first in person. And it's a weird, you know, it's like a strange TV thing that everyone kind of feels like they know each other a bit. Like I was just in the elevator with Ali Vitale from msnbc. And she's like, I love your code. And I'm like, are we just girlfriends? Because, like, I've been watching you and.
- [02:31]
A
You watch me and you're tall. You are pretty tall.
- [02:34]
B
So are you. I didn't know what size you were gonna be. I'm nervous about that at CrookedCon. Cause I'm a tall lass. You are tall. And I feel like everybody is gonna be.
- [02:42]
A
A mini Lovett is kind of a weenie lad.
- [02:44]
B
A little mini mini Hasan Pinker. He's huge.
- [02:46]
A
Is he okay? We'll see.
- [02:47]
B
He's supposed to be.
- [02:48]
A
According to. We are on a panel with Hassan Piker, Another person I've never met. Do you have any thoughts about that?
- [02:54]
B
Yeah, I have tons of thoughts about that.
- [02:56]
A
We'll see how it goes then. We'll share the thoughts with you guys on Monday. Okay, I wanna start with the most important news of the day, which is justice has finally been served in America. And I'm so happy for the sandwich man. I was disappointed I was not able to come here yesterday. A little early.
- [03:11]
B
But you wanted to be at the courthouse.
- [03:12]
A
I wanted to be out there. Out there with. Throwing flowers at him. I want to just do a little flashback from two and a half months ago. Your former colleague, Judge Jeanine Taylor.
- [03:21]
B
Janine. Get it, girl.
- [03:22]
A
Judge. U.S. attorney. Box of wine. Was announcing. Sorry. She was announcing this indictment. And I want to. I want to listen to it. And then he took a Subway sandwich about this big and took it and threw it at the officer.
- [03:39]
B
He thought it was funny.
- [03:41]
A
Well, he doesn't think it's funny today because we charged him with a felony assault on a police officer.
- [03:46]
B
And we're gonna back the police to the hilt. So there. Stick your Subway sandwich somewhere else. She's such a cutie.
- [03:56]
A
So there I think we are. Laughing. I'm laughing. Are you laughing? I'm laughing. I speak for my.
- [04:02]
B
I actually. And she released a statement this morning saying it didn't go the way that we thought. You shouldn't be able to assault an officer. And obviously listening to someone argue that he was scared of bodily harm. He's wearing a bulletproof vest and a guy in a pink shirt is throwing a sandwich. Though. I know there was a lot of mustard. Which was a point of contagion.
- [04:22]
A
You said that. Mustard. That feels like a lie. I feel like that was a lie under oath.
- [04:25]
B
The mustard part.
- [04:26]
A
I do. I think if there was a crime committed here, it might have been the prosecution's lead witness lying under oath. Because he said that he got. He could smell the mustard and onions on himself. But we can see in the video that the sandwich is still wrapped on the ground.
- [04:40]
B
It is a packaged item.
- [04:41]
A
So how did the mustard get through?
- [04:43]
B
Well, I think this is what the jury took into account when they were evaluating this. But, you know, I think that there are a few good things. Well, one, that sandwich man walks free and talks about how important jury trials are.
- [04:57]
A
Yes.
- [04:57]
B
And they are oftentimes cited as the way that you push back against creeping authoritarianism. And I think that that is a good lesson for all of us. And you see that with people who have been unfairly prosecuted. Like Comey says, let's go. Right. Like, sit me in front of them. Tish James is like, I'm not afraid of this, John Bolton. Maybe a little bit more afraid of what's to come. But I think that airing this stuff out publicly is so important in this moment. There's too much that's going on behind closed doors with this government. And I feel much safer about the fact that we can, you know, see a jury result. You can have people talking about it in front of cameras, and that makes me feel better about all of it. And that he's free to go practice at Cravath or where he's off to.
- [05:49]
A
I'm with you. It's all very positive. I mean, it was a little bit. It's funny. And it also is a little bit absurd. And he. It was. So she. In that announcement. Ms. Pirro announced a felony prosecution. They didn't get that. No, it was a misdemeanor to a misdemeanor. They still took it to the jury rather than just, like, cutting a deal with him. I don't know about you. Were you a troublemaker in high school?
- [06:10]
B
I mean.
- [06:12]
A
No, I was a little bit of troublemaker. So I had a couple of misdemeanor charges against you.
- [06:15]
B
Like, actually not from, like, your mom.
- [06:18]
A
No. Like, really. I thought you meant, like, drinking under minor in possession of alcohol. You know, not showing up to court when I should have showed up for a traffic. Yeah. Watch out. I know I was practically Trinidad, but, you know, I had a couple minor. None of them went to a jury trial. You know, it felt a little bit, you know, political, a little onerous to try to take this to a jury trial.
- [06:43]
B
Well, totally. But they had invested also in the El Chapo, like, video about what had happened.
- [06:48]
A
Oh, I forgot about that video.
- [06:50]
B
I was like an OG special. I feel like, for this administration before we got, like, Kristi Noem on top of buildings like in Chicago and Portland, looking down at the masses of Big Bird and, you know, Pikachu or whatever. But they were amped about this and it feels so long ago. That's the thing. They have totally warped my perception of time. This is a two and a half months ago or whatever. But the beginning of the National Guard going into cities is actually a very seminal moment. And D.C. being the smartest place to start since Trump is actually in charge of it. And Muriel Bowser had a different take than the other Blue City mayors about this. But I think it's a good line in the sand that we have this and now he can become a spokesman.
- [07:37]
A
It's kind of petered out the National Guard troops. Why do you think that is? Like, you just remember the intensity of the feeling around it back then.
- [07:44]
B
Yeah.
- [07:45]
A
And I think maybe part of it is just that it's like there was a lot more bluster than there has been actual action from the National Guard troops side of this. But we'll get to the immigration stuff later, which is totally different animal. But, like, it's mostly been guys and fatigues doing selfies. You know, like, that's been most of it. There've been a few other things. But, like, that's been the gist in.
- [08:07]
B
D.C. or in all the cities that they've fanned out.
- [08:10]
A
I mean, definitely in D.C. yeah, LA.
- [08:12]
B
Was like that because they ended up only at the one building they're doing perimeter.
- [08:17]
A
I mean, I went to watch last time I was in town. I'm away from the child. You know this. I know you don't get to see a movie anymore with small children. You only get to see children's movies. So I was away and I had a little free time. I went to see one battle after another.
- [08:29]
B
Oh, how did you feel?
- [08:30]
A
I loved it. Then I walked out. I went to the one down in chinatown here in D.C. i walked out and it's like, you know, there are four dudes in fatigue standing outside the Metro getting yelled at by a crazy guy. And like, then other people are videoing it and it just. It didn't.
- [08:46]
B
It doesn't hit the way that they expect it to. But I think that it's all kind of looping back to this idea of things being out in the open. Like, it's so good for it to be on display this way. And there's been so much activity on the part of the regular populace in filming things and posting things and commenting on it at a moment where the administration is Making you more and more afraid of what's going to happen to you if you do those things.
- [09:12]
A
Yeah.
- [09:13]
B
And you know, if we had had this conversation last week, I think we would have had a totally different mentality about the trajectory of the country and what's gonna happen in the midterms or how people are feeling. But, you know, no Kings Day, you know, I'm not trying to get like so amped up about it, but you know, you have 7 million people turning out and then you see this election where a lot of people turned out and basically said varying degrees of I'm not into what's going on in this country. And that makes you feel, I don't wanna say good, not like that happy about things, but we're moving. I feel like we're all speaking a similar language now. And for a long time I did not feel that way.
- [09:55]
A
And they seem weak also. So let's go to the election results. And they do seem weak. I was watching you guys yesterday on the 5 and you know, the right wing kind of processing of this, there's a lot of cope happening. I was listening to them and there's a lot of feeling of like, well, this was on home turf, which is true. Like it was in states that come low one, you know that the Democrats, well, you hear that a lot. You hear a lot of kind of like, oh, well, Zoran is going to be a political cudgel for us and we'll be able to use him some places on the right, you know. But there wasn't a lot of like, man, we're losing our grip on things of power. I don't know. Do you feel that?
- [10:36]
B
I totally feel that and I believe I said it before I was drowned out. But I don't think that the argument holds actually that this is blue turf. Because the lesson of the 2024 election was that what was solid blue turf is not so solid. And in Virginia there's literally a Republican governor.
- [10:55]
A
Yeah. And New Jersey was the place, I think was the state that had the biggest move.
- [11:00]
B
Number two. I think New York was number one.
- [11:02]
A
Second like shift towards Trump from 2020.
- [11:04]
B
To 24 and five counties that he picked up that a Republican like had never won before went back and went back hard towards Mikey Sherrill. And a lot of serious people were saying that Jack Ciarelli could win this. Right. If there was a last minute push and there's polling that had them within, you know, three to five points and you don't know who. If it's a big turnout Day, you know, for your side, what could happen there? So I don't want to reduce the impact of it because also the winds were so big. Like, 15 points is the biggest margin in Virginia since JFK. Like, that's a big deal. And Mikey Sherrill at 13 points, no one had that. So I'm into it, but, you know, it's boring for, you know, my colleagues, certainly, but that's my specialty. I like to bore everyone for 90 seconds at a clip. Mississippi, Georgia, Ohio, Texas. These aren't blue places.
- [11:59]
A
What was the mood over there? Can we do. Is there any shot in Freuda? Were people kind of sad on Wednesday?
- [12:04]
B
No, I wasn't.
- [12:06]
A
Greg Gutfeld moping. Can you give me something?
- [12:09]
B
No, I can give you nothing. I mean, you saw what it was. And I think that there is a.
- [12:14]
A
Straw cope, which is interesting, kind of in a way in that, like, it didn't feel like they're like, this was a big rebuke and we need to change things.
- [12:21]
B
Right. Even though Trump's first comments were that, you know, when he's talking to the press before he had the private meeting with the GOP senators where he said, when the cameras aren't here, I would like to talk about the shutdown, which I think is really hurting us.
- [12:34]
A
Yeah.
- [12:35]
B
And until last night, he thought affordability was something he had to talk about, but now it's no more affordability. So I don't know how that's gonna work out for him. But I'm struck by the difference in response to the 2024 election for people who vote like we do versus people who are supporting Trump. Because I think. And granted, it was a bigger election, it's a presidency and a lot more results from all over the country. But I thought everyone was really introspective and thoughtful about it. I didn't see anyone get on TV and be def. Kamala had it right and Biden had it right. You know, everyone said this was a debacle. Some people have been saying a lot.
- [13:15]
A
I did hear some leftists talking about the Zoran victory. Like it was the biggest victory in history. And it was.
- [13:20]
B
As a New Yorker, it is killing me.
- [13:23]
A
It was good. It was a good victory. A lot of votes. Gotta vote. I'm not trying to.
- [13:26]
B
Oh, a lot of votes in total.
- [13:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of votes.
- [13:29]
B
But, you know, he got a lot of votes.
- [13:32]
A
He got a lot of votes. He deserved it. Since Lindsay, I think. Mayor Lindsay, I think so. So that's good. That's good.
- [13:36]
B
There were a lot of votes on the other side too. So, you know, if Sliwa had dropped out and if Cuomo had campaigned or been less repulsive, frankly, I don't think it would have gone that way. Or if you had a normie Democrat get in or a technocrat type like a Jamie Dimon or Jessica Tisch, I think it would have been different. But I don't want to minimize it because I think it's exciting to have young people. Also because we're about to go do a panel on how to be cool again.
- [14:03]
A
That's easy for me.
- [14:04]
B
Is it? I'm straight. Panic.
- [14:06]
A
You're in a panic. Is that why you're kind of in the lace? It's the black lace. You're feeling like this is cool?
- [14:12]
B
No. I don't know. I'm like a 41 year old mom.
- [14:16]
A
You're cool. I think you're cool.
- [14:17]
B
Yeah, but you're like a dad in your 40s.
- [14:20]
A
Yeah, but, you know, I had a couple misdemeanors in high school.
- [14:23]
B
That's true. I had nothing like that. But yes, I was nervous about, you know, how well you're wearing. No, they're like in between, but like millennial women only wear like the really tapered jeans and young people don't like that. So I was like, I can't do that. So I wore like baggier leather pants. Anyway, I'm crazy.
- [14:40]
A
You can take my fucking skinny jeans off of my. Pry them out of my cold dead legs. Okay, I'm not gonna do the big pants that the kids wear now. I'm not gonna do.
- [14:48]
B
No, it doesn't have to be big.
- [14:49]
A
Yeah, the boys do. The boys were all wearing huge pants.
- [14:52]
B
Now, tiny shirts like when we were in high school.
- [14:54]
A
Yeah, tiny shirts. Well, no, because in high school we did big shirts, big pants. Now they're wearing tiny shirts, big pants.
- [14:58]
B
Well, I had baby tees. I was way too chonky for and like a seatbelt belt from Urban Outfitters. Everything was very chic.
- [15:06]
A
You were too chonky.
- [15:08]
B
Like, I don't. I find that hard to like puberty wise. Not like I need to be sent away somewhere. It was not, you know, it was like that in between phase. I mean, you have a daughter like where your mom's like talking to you about a bra, but you're like a little bit unsure.
- [15:24]
A
I don't know. You are.
- [15:25]
B
Deodorant.
- [15:26]
A
Yeah. I'll experience all this for the first time in five years. I had all brothers went to an all boys school, so I know Nothing about what you're talking about. About.
- [15:32]
B
It's gonna be rough. It's gonna be rough. Yeah, you should text me. But yes, it is a bit. Do you think this is like too dramatic for the morning? I feel. Thank you. The election results are really good and they're coping really hard, at least publicly. But I think behind closed doors that people know what's going on.
- [15:51]
A
If they're ever sad. I just want like a little video, just like one little sneaky video of them being sad. That's okay. It's fine. They're mean to you, so it's okay to do just for fun. They like schadenfreude. They posted. One of their coping things was the White House posted a thing about people crying from last year's election. They posted like random TikTok girls crying. Did you see those?
- [16:15]
B
No.
- [16:15]
A
No. Yeah, the White House, our government, the federal government's official page posted like a sizzle reel of, you know, 20 year old woke girls being sad. And so if they can do that, you can sneak us a little bit of. Anyway, that's just something.
- [16:30]
B
I'll work on it.
- [16:32]
A
Everybody, I'm in Washington here on Friday for Crooked Con. Shout out to our boys over at Crooked Media. And it's chilly. It's really fall. It's not fake fall. It's not fake winter like we have in Louisiana. And so I've been turning to my fall wardrobe for these travel trips, which includes a bunch of stuff from our pals at American Giant, which includes our greatest hoodie ever made that's made of the highest quality materials that are cut and sewn right here in the usa. What I love about American Giant, the clothes are sturdy. You know, I. I feel like I'm looking good. It's a nice fit for me. I got this little long sleeve. I'm not that good at colors. What would you call it? I don't know, like a maroon, maybe something in the red palette. Shirts that matches real nice with the flannel shirt that I put on top of it. Maybe put some necklaces on. Feeling pretty cool. We got those hoodies aforementioned. My husband was an American Giant hoodie Stan before they started sponsoring us. So you can know for sure that this is just the real deal, baby. All authentic. We're American Giant fans. In this household, American Giant offers a wide range of looks from the greatest hoodie ever made to everyday pieces designed for everyday life. From fleeces to knit, all in seasonal colors for versatile daily wear. Their men's crew neck. I also like it's made in LA and easy to layer on top of tees or under a heavy coat. Layering is very important. Proportionizing. Get 20% off your first order when you use promo code bulwark@american-giant.com that's 20% off when you use code bulwark@american-g giant.com the economy. They're not really dialing in on the issues that they have with the economy. I don't think there's been a little bit of lip service to it. We brought in Catherine Ray Pell to the board. She had her first newsletter yesterday.
- [18:22]
B
She's awesome. She used to go on Fox. I used to be on with her.
- [18:25]
A
Yeah, she's great. So I want to read a little bit from her first newsletter. Layoff announcements have reached recessionary levels. Subprime borrowing is back. Electricity prices are skyrocketing to the extent we can actually measure anything right now, which is hard because what Trump's doing, We appear to be suffering from the dreaded S word stagflation. So that's bad. That seems bad. Then the election results seem very bad. And Trump was asked about this yesterday and he was like, well, thanksg meals are cheaper than last year.
- [18:53]
B
Not true.
- [18:55]
A
And then he goes, so I don't wanna hear about the affordability, I don't wanna hear about the affordability. I don't know if it's really possible for Trump to deal with bad news. They might be in a real pickle here because Trump's superpower is being able to talk about the shitty steaks that he sold and the shitty hotels and talk about how they're the finest things ever. Yeah, he's good at that. You gotta hand it to him on that, he's a good salesman. He's like, you think that this steak tastes terrible, this rock hard steak, but it's actually the greatest, finest steak ever. And I know, cuz I'm Trump, right? And he has been good at that. And like talking about his last term during the campaign, it was the greatest economy for African Americans. You know, he does that whole shtick, lowest unemployment. Like if the economy's actually bad though, if we actually are in stagflation and people are feeling real pain, like that shtick doesn't really work, right?
- [19:45]
B
No. Well, well I think that's what you saw manifested on election night. I mean, you have your normal kind of recouping of the resistance, whatever it's going to look like this time around. But people showed up and said, we hired you basically for one job, maybe two Jobs. So there was an immigration job and we wanted you to close the border and you did that and you did a good job. And I think it's important to, you know, I wish the asylum system was working better but like if you let in a quarter of a million people on a monthly basis for three years or whatever, then it's gotta be closed for a little bit to kind of figure out what's going on. But the main job was to lower the prices of gas, eggs, school supplies, like all the things that we need on a daily housing. And none of that has happened. And I always try to. And part of this is a function.
- [20:40]
A
Of working single handedly. Made it worse. Actually it's worth mentioning with the tariffs. It's not. He hasn't made it better.
- [20:45]
B
Well, it's a pretty bad.
- [20:46]
A
He's made choices that has made it.
- [20:47]
B
That have made it worse, which I haven't uttered in a very long time on the tariff front. But yeah, it's definitely made it worse. And you've seen some Republican senators find their backbone about it, you know, voting to. Well, they voted to.
- [20:59]
A
You're on Fox, so you sealed a little bit more than me, but I don't know what.
- [21:02]
B
Well, they voted to scrap the Brazil and the Canadian tariffs. I don't know how that actually works. The problem is I feel like all this stuff happens in government, but he doesn't care. So it just keeps going anyway. So call up Mark Carney and be like, I know that you saw this, but actually it's still on, baby. But I try. And it's connected to working in conservative spaces for sure. But there are good reasons that people voted for Trump in 2024. And so I want the country to succeed. I want to give the benefit of the doubt where I think that and it's warranted. But I cannot get to the silver lining of what's happening now, not only in their communication strategy, but actually on the ground. I'm not an economist but like not a dumb, dumb. I understand how it works and everything's been going in the opposite direction that they've said that it should. And Scott Galloway, who I do raging moderates with, talks about the Magnificent Ten. I thought it was the Magnificent Seven originally, but it's ten now. He says ten. Anyway, I wouldn't fight with Scott about this, but he says like it's propping up the whole market. We have this K shaped economy and it's very easy for the administration to just pay attention to the top of the K because they don't really care about the bottom of the K. Bottom of the K votes usually. But I can't see the trees through the forest.
- [22:29]
A
To me, it's like, what's this 12 step program line? Like the first step of solving of a problem is admitting the other one. Right. And I don't think Trump is ever gonna admit that he has a problem.
- [22:38]
B
No.
- [22:38]
A
And they don't seem like they're interested in admitting they have a problem. They being kind of like the broader media ecosystem around Trump, the people around Trump. And so if you can't admit that the economy's going the wrong direction and you don't have any solutions, and the only solution is you're just trying to.
- [22:54]
B
Get really rich while you have power.
- [22:56]
A
Yeah. Or fingers crossed, Supreme Court, save this. Or like, whatever, Screw it. But I'm not running again. Good luck. Maybe, Maybe not. Right? I don't know. The crypto people are doing great, and the Trump family is doing great because.
- [23:09]
B
They are crypto people now.
- [23:11]
A
Rushing. Yeah.
- [23:12]
B
That's so good.
- [23:13]
A
Baron's like a billionaire now. Just himself with crypto coin scams. Yeah. So they're running a massive scam. They're enriching themselves to a degree that never before seen in our government. So they're doing fine. And he's in his little media ecosystem where nobody tells him things are going bad. So why would they try to do anything different? To me, it seems like we're on an inexorable trajectory towards bad stuff. Unless he gets bailed out by like, whatever, an AI boom or something.
- [23:41]
B
Well, it doesn't look that way.
- [23:45]
A
Event.
- [23:47]
B
Yeah. But again, I'm trying to go for the benefit of the doubt. Like small. Not small people. Smart. Some smart people. I don't know.
- [23:55]
A
It's really smart and small people like.
- [23:57]
B
Dana, but like Scott. That's true. She is smart and small. Like Scott Besant is a smart guy. He did admit.
- [24:04]
A
Is he?
- [24:05]
B
Yeah. Like, technically.
- [24:07]
A
Pretty bad. He was pretty bad as a hedge fund person. Really? Yeah.
- [24:11]
B
I mean, he's like, made a billion dollars and has a Barbie dream house.
- [24:15]
A
He sold the Barbie Dreamhouse.
- [24:16]
B
I got so sad. It is.
- [24:19]
A
I mean, his. He did well, but like, his. His fun didn't do particularly well when.
- [24:24]
B
He went out on. I mean, Soros has done great and that's where he was for most of it.
- [24:27]
A
Yeah. Anyway.
- [24:29]
B
I don't know. Jews control it all. Anyway, I. You can't.
- [24:31]
A
Do we. Do you.
- [24:33]
B
Yeah, I mean, that's what I've heard.
- [24:35]
A
Okay, we'll get back to that.
- [24:39]
B
I Just don't. I don't think it behooves our side to just shit on them all the time and say they're just dumb. They have no idea what they're doing. But isn't that true sometimes?
- [24:53]
A
But I mean, Howard Nutlik has no idea what he's doing.
- [24:56]
B
I'm totally with you on that. I think that he is one of the biggest thorns in their side. On top of the fact that he doesn't do that well on tv, which is all that really matters in this. I think Bessant does much better. But he does have moments where it cracks through. And like, he admitted, I think he was with Jake Tapper. He said there are parts of the economy that are in recession.
- [25:18]
A
Yeah.
- [25:19]
B
And you're like, oh, you noticed that. That. That was happening.
- [25:23]
A
He's really condescend. I just don't like his affect. Could just be me. It's hard for me to get through. It's a very condescending affect.
- [25:31]
B
I saw him in person. I did not realize he was so tall.
- [25:34]
A
Yeah. Really tall.
- [25:35]
B
Yeah. Like, I'm five'11 and he's probably like six'5. Huge.
- [25:38]
A
Big guy.
- [25:39]
B
Big guy. That affect all the time, though.
- [25:42]
A
Really?
- [25:42]
B
Yeah.
- [25:43]
A
Even on screen.
- [25:44]
B
I mean, we didn't chat or anything, but you know, when someone's like, vibing a certain way. He also, you know, maybe didn't want to hang out with me, which is totally fine.
- [25:53]
A
So things are bad, though. We agree.
- [25:55]
B
Things are absolutely bad. Especially. Well, they have a plan.
- [25:59]
A
Which is what?
- [26:01]
B
Well, there's this plan that Steven Mirren, who's the economist and like, ex Hutch on a guy that's behind all of it, has. And there is a paper that this was based on. Right. And the thing about the paper is that it has to go, you know, like, I mean, I think that there. I'm very happy in my marriage, but I think that there are, you know, multiple happy lives that we can all have. Right. Like, you could have found somebody else or, you know, the sliding doors of it all. I'm getting to something about.
- [26:32]
A
Or I'm taking this clip and just no, it's fine.
- [26:36]
B
He always says to me, you never bring me up at the normal times when people are like, how's life? And you're not like, I'm so happy. Like, I have beautiful daughters and a wonderful husband. You're like, with this proposal, the tariff plan to fix the economy, it's like a thousand things have to go perfectly. Right. And you have to be able to control how every other nation is going to respond to how you're behaving. And like none of those things have gone right. Like, I don't know if there's actually a pot of Gold with $17 trillion or whatever he says that it is that they've brought in from tariff revenue that they're spending on SNAP benefits or you know, how they're saying that they're like feeding women and children with tariff money, that no one knows if it exists anyway. They were going with a plan that had to be pinpoint, precise, like a sniper rifle from thousands of miles away. And that is just bombing at this particular moment. And I know that you're not supposed to kind of live or die by elections, but they have an election coming up and this is going to be the number one issue. And Democrats seem to have found a way to stop talking about cultural issues and talk about cost of living issues, which it is a miracle. And I don't know how they can stand up to that.
- [27:52]
A
Well, that's a shame. Which I'm not going to see how it goes. Let's be honest. Traditional phone systems weren't built for how businesses work today. And when you miss a call, you're not just missing a conversation, you're losing business. Quo, formerly OpenPhone, is the modern alternative designed to help you work smarter, build stronger relationships, and never miss an opportunity. Quo is the number one business phone system that streamlines customer communications. No more juggling two phones or being tied to a landline. Quo works through an app on your phone or your computer so you can run your business from anywhere. Your team can share one number and collaborate on calls and texts like a shared inbox, keeping response times fast and customers happy. Whether you're a solo operator, a leading and growing team, Quo keeps you connected and helps you deliver standout customer experience. Get started for free, plus get 20% off your first six months at quo.com the Bulwark. That's Q-U-O.com the Bulwark. And if you have existing numbers with another service, Quo will port them over at no extra charge. Quo no missed calls, no missed customers. The shutdown. This ties into kind of all this. And I have, I think maybe a contrarian take in the pundit space on this, which is like, open it. Maybe it's time to declare a victory. It feels like a win. Feels like the Democrats won the shutdown. Like it's a Trump got blamed. And I was watching you guys all talk about it and there's like the back and forth on Fox. They're coming up with the reasons why the Democrats are losing. And it's like a whole different world over there. It's just like the Schumer shutdown. And this is part of the reason why I'm kind of like, it's crazy. The shutdown conversations literally exist in two completely different silos.
- [29:34]
B
100%.
- [29:34]
A
And everybody watching Fox is convinced it's entirely the Democrats fault. Everyone watching MSNBC is convinced it's entirely the Republicans fault. There's nobody's broaching any. Any possible.
- [29:45]
B
What's CNN doing?
- [29:46]
A
Nobody's debating. I don't watch cnn.
- [29:48]
B
I don't know.
- [29:48]
A
You tell me.
- [29:48]
B
I don't.
- [29:49]
A
Is anybody. I don't know. Sorry.
- [29:51]
B
Abby's show. I feel like some people do.
- [29:53]
A
We love Abby on the airport.
- [29:55]
B
Abby in the airport.
- [29:56]
A
Yeah. But. So nobody's negotiating, and I guess there's some secret Senate negotiations happening, but nobody's like, nobody feels any pressure to negotiate because in their media circles, everybody's like, you're killing it. Right. You know what I mean? But I just look at that and I'm looking at things right now and it's like. Like people are being materially harmed.
- [30:15]
B
Yes.
- [30:15]
A
Not just. I mean, myself, because flying is horrible, but that's a first world problem. I get it. There are other people that are being materially harmed that need their benefits or need their paycheck that they're not getting or working without a paycheck. Various things. And it's like, there's not another election for a year. And there doesn't seem to me like Mike Johnson.
- [30:37]
B
No.
- [30:38]
A
And is going to bring up a bill to bail out, you know, to extend the Obamacare subsidies. That seems like a zero percent chance that that's gonna happen.
- [30:45]
B
I don't know what he'll do if Thune gets him in a room and is like, this is what we're doing. Because, I mean, at least the reporting that I've seen is that there was a Senate GOP luncheon. They have lunch like every day, though. I live. And they act like it's such a big deal. And it's like every day there's a report out.
- [31:04]
A
But anyway, poor Mitt sat alone at those luncheons.
- [31:08]
B
So sad. Not anymore. Now, I guess, like, be home and be happy.
- [31:11]
A
Yeah. Hang out lots of grandkids, like a thousand.
- [31:13]
B
So cute, too, that there's an appetite from Republican senators to put up their own Obamacare subsidies bill. And I hope that if that happens, the Democrats are like, sure, I'll sign onto yours like, this shouldn't be a. It has to be my way, you know. But then I don't know what happens in the House.
- [31:31]
A
Yeah, I guess if you're looking at what were the Democrats goals out of this? It was like one, to help people whose healthcare premiums are going up. That was like the stated goal. Right. Number two was to fight the lawless administration and say that they were fighting it. Number three was to gain some political advantage when it was the only opportunity when they had to do so because the Republicans control everything. Right. Like those for just being honest. Like those were the three. Two and three have been achieved. Go ahead.
- [32:00]
B
Well one thing that we don't discuss that hasn't been dropped from the list of demands is to restore the Medicaid cuts from the big beautiful bill. Like that's how the Right gets that number. About like 1.5 trillion.
- [32:11]
A
Sure.
- [32:12]
B
So that to me, I understand it as a point of argumentation but like that is not happening. And I feel like it has a lot more of a feasible chance of getting passed or you know, something getting done if you're just sticking to the Obamacare stuff.
- [32:29]
A
For sure. Yeah. Do any of them have feasible chance? I guess I don't know. And it's sort of like if I'm the Democrats now, I just feel like the political part of this has been achieved. The substantive part has not. It's the Republicans fault though that it hasn't. Right. Like the Democrats are giving them plenty of opportunity to say these are your voters. Most of these people whose premiums are going up. It's real people, we're trying to help you. It's a lot of frankly just like, look at the demo. It's like a lot of older white people that are in red states in red states whose premiums are going up. It's a lot like I was watching the CNBC thing and so I don't mean to minimize. There are a lot of people who the Obamacare premiums going up is really bad for them. And it's a real thing. It's a real thing. There's also like, it's particularly bad for like early retirees. It's like this donut. It's like CNBC did a thing and like a couple that was like 58 years old living and they lived in some red state like North Dakota and they're like we were planning on using our early retirement to vacation but now we're not gonna have any vacation money cuz we gotta spend them on the premiums. And I'm like, okay, well Good luck. Sorry, tough cookies. But the Democrats have made their point on this, and Jonathan can come to the table. The other side of the table. Well, do you think they should open.
- [33:47]
B
It up without an Obamacare subsidies bill?
- [33:51]
A
I just think that they should be like, you can just. Just have a couple of these old fucks vote for cloture and just whatever, not support it. Like, if you want to vote for. If you want to open things up.
- [34:00]
B
On a party line, nuke the filibuster for spending bills and get on with your day.
- [34:04]
A
Yeah. And I guess the argument. So there are two arguments for the Democrats now to keep this going. One is maybe they're gonna nuke the filibuster, which the Democrats want because they have a lot a bigger wish list if they ever get back in power. Okay, that's an interesting strategic. Inside the beltway reason to keep this going. The other reason to keep this going is Donald Trump's at his lowest approval rating of the second term right now. If you look at the Silver, Nate Silver, kind of average. He's gone from the bulletin. The bulletin. He's gone from negative 7 to negative 13 over the last month, basically since October, which is basically the shutdown time. So he's being materially hurt. So those are the arguments for doing it. It's like, okay, well, we'll just keep waiting until you guys will do the healthcare subsidies. It's hurting you, not us. But on the other hand, I'm just.
- [34:47]
B
Kind of like, well, it's hurting people. It's hurting people, which is what your job is supposed to be about. Like, I saw yesterday that Democrats were like, oh, no, I think we should go a bit longer on this. Like, right after Sean Duffy got on TV and was like, they're gonna be, you know, 4% of flights are gonna be taken offline, and that's gonna be like 10% of flights. And we both had terrible travel to D.C. last night, though. Amtrak did come through for me.
- [35:12]
A
Great.
- [35:13]
B
But having to go from LaGuardia to Moynancy. We do. There were a lot of angry travelers on the train, though, other libtards like myself, but we had a little. A little family time there. You know, I feel like trains are super friendly where you're like, it's a.
- [35:30]
A
Little more communal than the airport experience. Total.
- [35:32]
B
But I'm still always afraid that my stuff is gonna get stolen.
- [35:35]
A
Yeah, the bags, the bags. It's not a lot of security there. It does feel like a weakness.
- [35:39]
B
Like, I would go. If I were a thief, I would go on Amtrak and I would also go outside of all of these play places. Like we park our super fancy strollers on the street in New York City and go in and do like bubble class and you could just walk by and take a bunch of uppababies.
- [36:00]
A
This is how you got to the right of the Cool.
- [36:01]
B
Because I'm wearing leather pants.
- [36:02]
A
That's crooked, right? Yeah, because you got a criminal mind.
- [36:05]
B
The songmaker is not going to be talking about stealing strollers. Having MG can make cooking difficult. But over the years I've found some really helpful tools and tips that I'm excited to share. Hi, I'm Alicia. I think cooking should always be fun, creative and of course delicious. These black bean burgers are hearty, full of flavor and MG friendly. You're gonna love them.
- [36:28]
A
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- [36:41]
C
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- [37:41]
A
What are you doing? If you're Chuck Schumer today.
- [37:46]
B
I'm still torn about it because the thing that gets me more about than the flights and it is a big deal. And of course people have real lives.
- [37:56]
A
We're joking about our stuff.
- [37:57]
B
If I miss Crooked Con, I can't get here because of our, you know, our government doesn't work.
- [38:04]
A
That would have been fine.
- [38:05]
B
You'll find someone else.
- [38:05]
A
Other people have real jobs, real lives, real things.
- [38:07]
B
Interviews with people in food pantry lines. Yeah, that's real stuff. And that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a conversation about why 1 in 8Americans needs to be on SNAP or if absolutely all of them do, but like that has to be dealt with and the courts are saying you need to deal with it, but that going back to the lawless administration, they don't care about court orders.
- [38:30]
A
Right. Which is why I would never vote, just to be 100% clear. Cause you know, if any Dems are listening, if any Dems are listening, Dem members, aren't they there? I'm being humble. You can't vote for this government, so.
- [38:44]
B
Tell them to nuke the filibuster.
- [38:45]
A
Yeah. Or you could give them cloture and not vote for it. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You could just vote for cloture. That's happened before and that's like a dorky thing. Nobody would understand. And so you wouldn't get. I don't think you'd suffer any political consequences for that. I'm just saying that would be an option. I would never vote for this budget and this government, obviously. But, like, what's the hope? Like the best case scenario feels like at this point that John Thune and Mike Johnson give you a vote on the Obamacare subsidies in a couple weeks.
- [39:11]
B
And you take it.
- [39:11]
A
And you take it, which is, I guess, a good deal. That's fine. Would it actually pass? I find it hard to believe that it's gonna pass this House of Representatives. I find that very hard to believe that we've gained one over the course of this whole fight. We've gained one vote from Republicans. Marjorie Taylor Greene, our girl that scores on one person who has come around to the Democratic point of view. So you'd need a couple more in the House, I guess, but it feels unlikely.
- [39:36]
B
I don't know. I think it has to do with Trump. Like how much does Trump signal?
- [39:43]
A
I mean, he seems to care more about the ball.
- [39:44]
B
Right. 2018, 2019. Right. I mean, we had a 35 day shutdown. We're on day 37 right now. He broke when that happened. He was, he preserved snap because you're supposed to when that time happened. But he's that much more evil this time around. But a couple weeks of people not being paid and starving is really serious stuff. And I feel like the stakes, we're in full political jockeying time and it's uncomfortable to me. And I say this as someone who gleefully says in the latest NBC poll, you're being blamed by 12 points. So I'm turning on myself a bit.
- [40:22]
A
My point is they've lost. They've lost. Like they've already lost.
- [40:26]
B
And I do think that the, the Democratic base is happy right now with the party. They're saying, you are fighting for the right stuff. You're not rolling over. There's no, like, Chuck Schumer telling us we're gonna stand up to them. And then he's like, actually, I'm gonna give them exactly what they want in 20 minutes.
- [40:42]
A
Right.
- [40:43]
B
So I imagine it comes to conclusion.
- [40:45]
A
If we were playing the Sims, I would be like, keep rolling because they're in pain right now. So there's no. So I, I understand the perspective, which is like, the Republicans are in the barrel, like on this. It's just the people are. I don't know how much. Yeah, the people are being hurt. I just don't know how much more is politically to be gained. He's already down at minus 13 and there isn't another election until next November. And I just, I think that the next November election certainly will be about healthcare costs, premium costs, premiums going up, economy. But it's not gonna be about, like, the strategy of how the shutdown came to an end. It's not gonna have any impact on next year's.
- [41:22]
B
In a lot of cases, even if there was an Obamacare subsidies plan that, that they could sign or a bill, it wouldn't solve the problem. Like, a lot of these premium increases are baked in at this point now that the exchanges are open. You know, it's not. Bureaucracy is a very slow moving. It's not like something like you flip the switch and it's like, oh, actually we're going to go back to this level, which by the way, is totally unacceptable level. And I wanted to ask you about that because it feels like, like, you know, we're having this fight about, you know, making sure your premium doesn't go up 114% to 400%, you know, depending on where you are. But like, Obamacare is still too expensive and there's no reform plan coming. I mean, there's nothing coming from their side at all, which makes us look good. But that's something that's been bothering me. And we have all these elected officials that come on the podcast and they're talking about, like, we need to make sure we save people's healthcare. And I'm like, it wasn't good to begin with. Like, thank God 20 million plus people have Obamacare. But what are you going to do about the fact that they shouldn't be paying $1,000 a month anyway, let alone $4,000 a month?
- [42:23]
A
Well, here's why they don't want to get talked about that, because this is the issue that divides the Democratic Party the most. And it's like, are we gonna. There are things to do. It would probably be cheaper to do Medicare for all than the current system, but there'd be a lot of other negative consequences like quality of care, et cetera. Like there are other. More bringing transparency like my people, that we would propose the raging moderates, like bringing more transparency to bring costs down. But to me, the point is, if I was the Democratic politician going on your podcast and you were asking them about that, I also would not answer that question. Cuz it doesn't matter. We have no power and the Republicans have all the power. And they're the ones that claim that they're a populist party now that cares about working people. And they're sticking everybody with the bag right now with tariffs, is making their groceries go up. The healthcare premiums are going up, up. Make them own it. And this is me and Jon Stewart got into this a little bit about a month ago where he was like, don't the Democrats need to put out a radical. We didn't get into it, we just had a disagreement where he was like, don't the Democrats need to put out a positive vision for how to actually fix this and make it better? I was like, no, no, no.
- [43:31]
B
I mean, it would make me feel better. Do you feel that way?
- [43:34]
A
Your feelings aren't really the most important thing right now. I'm sorry.
- [43:38]
B
Yeah, no, I hear that a lot.
- [43:39]
A
In life, pain for the administration is the most important thing.
- [43:43]
B
But do you think that you feel that way because you're not. You haven't been on our side forever like that. You just have a. More. This has to be defeated. Like, I feel responsibility to have a better Democratic platform. Like, I want to, you know, read. I mean, I'm not gonna read the whole thing, obviously, but like, you know, around the DNC and you get like the platform and you look at it and you're like, oh, I want to have really good, exciting ideas. Not just. I want to get the talking points right. And I want to say, you know, I'm slashing red tape and I'm gonna build houses everywhere. But I also want to see, like, these are my three reforms that I'm proposing in the healthcare space that are gonna make sure that you have. No, no, I think this is like a never Trumper thing.
- [44:31]
A
I don't think.
- [44:32]
B
And that's why Jon Stewart feels like we should have good policy.
- [44:36]
A
This is where I think the Democrats should listen to me more now. And you're crushing it. You do a great job poking the bubble of their just really hollow arguments that they make on Fox. Cuz the bubble is hollow. You do a good job of popping it. Then though, there is like a democratic good government impulse which I like and respect and is cute about. Like we really do need to have a white paper to fix this and kind of like, no, actually you don't. I mean, probably in retrospect, sure. If we're doing a rehash of the Kamala campaign, could they have done things that were different? You know what I mean?
- [45:07]
B
She had a talking and a policy problem.
- [45:09]
A
Yeah, sure, right. So you could have done both. Right. But now we are what we are. Like, the people wanted this. Like the job is to stop it. There was a good day on Tuesday in stopping it. The shutdown has been good. And to me it's kind of like, okay, let's back up our task. Maybe let's take a win. And this is not me being like, oh, norms Tim, we should start to compromise and stop fighting. It's like, no, this battle is won. One battle after another. This battle is won. Next battle is now to make these guys own whatever they decide to do on the healthcare and make these guys own the fact that people's premiums are going up. Make them own the fact that the economy is terrible and in 2027 a bunch of Democrats could come out and have some great ideas about what to do going forward and I can critique them and question them and all that, but that's a problem for I think that's fair.
- [46:02]
B
I think shut down politics never factors into an election. Like everyone forgets that it happened. Life with CIDP can be tough, but.
- [46:11]
A
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B
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- [46:19]
A
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- [46:40]
C
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- [47:39]
A
You're the raging moderate. Well, I want to do some wither moderates here before we get out of here. What's happening with the moderates? What's happening with our people? And Jared Golden, Maine. He's like everything that everybody in the post 2024 election said that Democrats needed. Like, he's a working class tattoo.
- [47:55]
B
Genuine article.
- [47:56]
A
Yeah. He's a working class dude. He's got tats. He could go into the manosphere and hang out. He cares about economic issues. You know, he's an economic populist.
- [48:06]
B
Bucks the party when he has to served.
- [48:08]
A
Yeah. And he's out. He dropped out because some dweeb in Maine is such a dweeb.
- [48:17]
B
Dunlop or something. I don't even.
- [48:19]
A
I don't know anything about him except that he looks and sounds like a dweeb. And he was going after Jared golden because he bucked the party like three times. And it was like nothing. There was no meaningful thing that was gonna help people's lives that Jared golden stood in the way of. It's just some resistance. People didn't like the fact that Jared golden sometimes didn't echo the latest talking point that was on Blue Sky. And so he gets bullied out of this race and he's like, this is not fun. I'm not enjoying it. I wanna hang out with my family and fish or whatever he likes to do in his free time. And that sucks.
- [48:48]
B
Yeah.
- [48:48]
A
And it sucks. And I had Pat Ryan on. Over on our YouTube, who I love. Yeah. And he's out there recruiting and I've been. I was in his ear, I'm like, we need to go recruit Jared Goldins. Like, there need to be more Jared Goldins. And we had one. We had basically two Jared Goldins. Him and Murray Goose Gibrez. There's a girl, Jared golden. And like one of them's gone now. And it's concerning. Are you concerned?
- [49:11]
B
I'm definitely concerned. I mean, they in learning from the lessons of 2024, concerned. Also in the lessons of like actual winning, to be more ruthless about it. Like, Jerry Colton had the reddest district that Adem carried.
- [49:29]
A
Yeah.
- [49:30]
B
And you know, Nancy Pelosi Announcing her retirement this week. There was obviously a ton to focus on in terms of her legacy. But my favorite thing, besides for the children about Nancy Pelosi, is that she always told her caucus, I'll do whatever you want. You can call me the devil or I'll campaign with you. Just win. We can't do anything unless we're in office. And Jared Goldin did the impossible three times. And it feels, and this links to the Mamdani race in New York as well, that. But three quarters of the party or our coalition, whatever it is, because I know there are a lot of people who still identify as a conservative that are with us, understand the task which is run the person that fits the constituency and then we'll see what happens. If you have a pro life Democrat who still votes for pro choice policies, what the fuck do you care?
- [50:26]
A
Who cares?
- [50:27]
B
And Ezra Klein did a thing this week about Joe Manchin. We're talking about what the Democratic Party is. And I've been saying that on Fox forever. I said, the guy votes with you 93% of the time. You would have never gotten the Inflation Reduction act without him anyway. Like, leave him alone. He wins a Trump 42 plus 42 state and you think that you're gonna ever have a prayer of carrying it. So that was concerning. But I feel like the election results like before that we had that deciding to win memo, right, where they surveyed 500,000 people, which I didn't even think. I worked in research. I didn't think that was possible. And then there was the other working class focused one that American Bridge did. And the results from that were all like, you're woke and weak. Right. And that we have to change the definition of what it means to be a moderate. And it can't be a strongly worded letter. Like you can talk the same as a firebrand. You just back policies that 55% plus of people support. And that seems like such an easy path forward. And Jared golden was doing that. Pat Ryan does that. You know, Tom Suozzi does that. He wins a district that he has to, you know, say, I'm endorsing Cuomo and I don't support Mondami. And then he, you know, congratulates him like a normal human being afterwards. And we should all be able to kind of shake hands and pack it up.
- [51:48]
A
I agree, though he probably should have been from undime. He was the nominee. Swazi should have. But that's, that's more of a neutral thing. I mean, to get reelected, it should.
- [51:56]
B
Be a deal Would you rather have him? I mean, that's how they felt about it. I mean, besides the fact that they felt or feel that Mamdani is a threat to Jews in New York City, which a lot of people feel, he only got 30% of the Jewish vote, which is unprecedented in mayoral politics. But he's listening to people at home, Laura Gillen's listening to people at home who are concerned about these things. So I don't think they're doing it just to be mean.
- [52:20]
A
I don't think they're doing it to be mean either. I guess my point is just. I think. I think that the swazi thing probably was not that strategically helpful. If the center, if those of us, the raging moderates, are going to demand that the DSA crowd get on board and not do vote undeclared or whatever, then sometimes you got to suck it up and do the other deal, particularly. It's a place like New York. But anyway, this is what has me worried. And I think that the Democrats could end up winning in spite of themselves like they did in 22, because that's just how politics is. If the economy is as bad as what we are saying, it continues to get worse. The next midterm, whoever Democrats put up in Maine might win that golden District and they might win the Senate race, maybe. But just being strategic about it, I feel like that the main Senate primary is right now just like a microcosm of how both factions in the party are fucking up. It's like the Platner side, he seems like a fine dude. I don't know about the Nazi tattoo or whatever. He's obviously a compelling talker and people like him. And I don't want to take anybody's excitement away from them, them. But like, he's running. And again, it might work in Maine because the Blue State, Commonwealth 1. Right.
- [53:26]
B
But if the left, Susan Collins wins every time.
- [53:29]
A
Right, exactly. But the left is like, hey, we need more economic populism. We need more guys who are like working class people. And it's like, okay, but then you also need to offer some cultural concern. It feels like the Tim Walls thing over again with Platner, where it's like, isn't it enough that he can fix a carburetor? And it's like, no, actually the people in the that voted for Trump have different policy issues, substantively different issues. And Platner is running basically on AOC's platform, but just in a dude with tattoos body and. Okay, that's fine if you like that. That's Fine. But that is not gonna be. It's not a path to win in red areas. It might win a Maine. It might work in Maine. It's not a path to win red areas. And then the Democrats, like the desiccated Democratic establishment is putting up Joe Biden, they're putting up a 77 year old who has a low approval rate, who's the governor of Maine. It's like, can we not do. Is there not a different option? Like, why are both sides doing the thing that they've failed at again?
- [54:31]
B
Well, people have most of the time a financial interest in doing those things. Like, I'm sure you saw the readout from Comer's panel with the Biden folks and like Mike Donlan's like, yeah, I get a $4 million bonus if Joe Biden wins the election. Did that affect why you thought he could run? No, that's impossible. I mean, I guess very rich people wouldn't think that $4 million makes a big difference, but I think that they do. So there are financial interests to stay in your corners. There are people, financial backers that make a difference. But in Maine, Jared golden should have run for Senate.
- [55:10]
A
Yes.
- [55:10]
B
That was my dream scenario. And I think Janet Mills has done a ton. I think Janet Mills is great. Like, she has a record that people like. People enjoy her, whatever, but like, it's hard to comment.
- [55:23]
A
And her record might be fine, but her, she's not really compared to other governors. Her favorability is pretty low, actually. Yeah.
- [55:29]
B
Oh, I thought it was like in the decent area.
- [55:32]
A
I don't know.
- [55:32]
B
Either way, I think she saw Platner as being the only option. Even though I'm being emailed by Jordan Wood constantly. So I don't know if he's making.
- [55:43]
A
Just like, ah, I need some raging moderates out there. It's like, this could be a moment. This is where I'm with you. It's like the environment is good. So I was talking to Pat Ryan. It's like, Maine should be a win. Ohio should be winnable. Iowa should be winnable.
- [55:56]
B
North Carolina, I think they're very good at that.
- [55:57]
A
They should. Yeah, they should all be winnable. Those are gettable this time. This midterm, first Trump midterm. But the candidates need to be fighting and they need to be able to appeal to some people that voted for Trump on some issues. And it's like I just. And I'm not seeing a ton of that out there.
- [56:13]
B
I don't know. I certainly see it in Roy Cooper.
- [56:16]
A
Roy Cooper's Great. Roy Cooper is a good nominee for.
- [56:18]
B
Sure, and Sherrod Brown is fabulous. I think I was surprised that he wasn't far ahead, considering the environment and how beloved he was. And he couldn't run against a Trump +10 swing or whatever in Ohio, which is understandable. But I don't think you should be in this level of distress. I think Jared Golden. The loss of Jared golden is a big deal.
- [56:42]
A
I'm always in distress.
- [56:43]
B
No, I mean, it's healthy, but should also look at it like, there hasn't been anything that's happened where I'm like, this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen on the podcast.
- [56:53]
A
I just want more. I'm greedy. I'm greedy. I'm pissed. These guys are fucking in charge. And I just want everybody to be like, no, let's get ruthless. Let's get ruthless. And let's. It feels like a ruthless advantage.
- [57:06]
B
I mean, the shutdown feels.
- [57:08]
A
And it was good. And it's a win.
- [57:09]
B
Yes.
- [57:10]
A
And it's a touch background.
- [57:12]
B
And so I work, like, Gavin Newsom is demonic ruthless.
- [57:15]
A
Boom.
- [57:15]
B
Yeah. Like, great.
- [57:17]
A
And I think Abigail's. I think we're about to see Ruthless Spamberger squeeze out dark. Spamberger's gonna squeeze out three or four more seats, which I like. All that is good. So there's good stuff happening. I just. I'm hungry, I'm voracious. I want more. And I don't want people to feel like, oh, no, things are going wrong. No, no, no.
- [57:32]
B
I don't think people are gonna take their foot off the gas. And it is important to dwell on something like Jared golden saying, like, also, the threats to my family are unacceptable, like the political violence scene and all of that. But I think when you look around and you're like, Ruben Gallego, who I love, and, like, what Newsom did, like, we're meeting the moment, I think, more or less. Is that too moderate or thing to say? No, I wanna be positive.
- [57:56]
A
I think the Bulwark audience will love that. They need that Jesse. Okay, Jessie. We get to call you Jessie when you're not on the Five, Jesse.
- [58:02]
B
Cause girl Jessie, boy Jessie.
- [58:03]
A
Girl Jessie, boy Jessie. We love you. We love it. Last thing, when you're walking through the airport, like, are you ever nervous that somebody's gonna yell at you? Do you have to deal with that in your life?
- [58:12]
B
Everyone is so nice.
- [58:14]
A
I love that.
- [58:14]
B
Yeah.
- [58:15]
A
Isn't that great also?
- [58:16]
B
Cause, like, the Five is your dysfunctional family. So they're like, oh, that's like, crazy. And Joshua, I was like a little.
- [58:22]
A
Worried for you that it's like that sucks for your life that you're always.
- [58:25]
B
Looking at safety stuff happen but not no one to my face just like you know in the mail.
- [58:32]
A
I'm glad we got this hang. We're about to go do the crooked stuff together, everybody. We'll be back here Monday for another edition of the Bulwark Podcast. Go check out Jesse on Raging Moderns probably. You can watch the five if you want to.
- [58:43]
B
You probably see clips of the five. I feel like that's how everyone knows me. They're like, I didn't know you could speak for more than two minutes.
- [58:49]
A
She can. She did it. Maybe we'll see you back here on Monday. We're cool. We'll have a way less cool guest on Monday. See you all then. Peace in the August sun. And if they turn green, don't be afraid. Nothing can hurt you but yourself. The Borg Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.
- [60:26]
C
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- [60:57]
A
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