The Bulwark Podcast: Jon Lovett - "The Worst People Are Happy"

Hosted by Tim Miller, The Bulwark Podcast delves into the latest political news, offering insightful analysis and unabashed defense of liberal democracy. In this episode titled "Jon Lovett: The Worst People Are Happy," Tim Miller engages in a profound conversation with John Lovett, co-founder of Crooked Media and host of various podcasts, including "Lovett or Leave It." The discussion centers around the current political climate, fears surrounding Donald Trump's potential influence, and the broader implications for American society.

1. Introduction and Setting the Tone (00:08 - 01:35)

Tim Miller welcomes John Lovett to the podcast, highlighting their intention to shift from a comedic monologue to a more earnest conversation about current feelings and fears surrounding the political landscape.

Notable Quote:

• Tim Miller (00:49): "This will mostly be a self-indulgent therapy session about how we feel."

2. Assessing Current Threats and Comparing Historical Context (01:35 - 05:21)

John reflects on the parallels between the current political atmosphere and the early days of Trump's presidency, emphasizing the uncertainty and potential for significant societal changes. He expresses concerns about the normalization of quasi-authoritarian governance and the long-term unrecognizability of the country post a possible Trump administration.

Notable Quotes:

• John Lovett (03:18): "I'm worried about now, what happens when Trump... makes decisions and it is just processed as normal politics."
• John Lovett (05:21): "We're already at the politics of quasi-authoritarian governance. We're already there."

3. The Politics of Deportations and Media Influence (05:21 - 14:51)

The conversation shifts to immigration policies, focusing on deportations. Tom Homan's aggressive stance on deportations is critiqued, especially his interaction with Sean Hannity, which John finds chilling. They discuss the potential for mass deportations under Trump's influence and the media's role in shaping public perception.

Notable Quotes:

• John Lovett (06:43): "We're already at the point where we're talking about whether there'll be blowback if Donald Trump uses the security state to kill people's clearances..."
• John Lovett (09:19): "What I'm worried about is that Trump starts... doing a bunch of deportations, claiming it is the worst of the worst criminals."

4. The Ethical Dilemma of Political Action vs. Accelerationism (19:44 - 36:48)

Tim introduces the concept of "accelerationism" versus "resistance," debating whether to actively resist political degradation or allow it to unfold to expose its dangers. John argues against accelerationism, emphasizing the real and guaranteed pain it would cause, and instead advocates for proactive engagement and presenting viable alternatives.

Notable Quotes:

• John Lovett (20:30): "I'm not a believer in accelerationism because the pain is real and guaranteed..."
• John Lovett (36:49): "I believe in the ledger. Where the wins and losses are written down and that ledger is kept."

5. The Decline of American Ideals and Historical Parallels (34:44 - 49:42)

John draws parallels between the current political turmoil and historical events such as Hitler's rise to power, underscoring the loss of collective norms and the breakdown of institutional integrity. He laments the erosion of the shared belief in American ideals, attributing it to elite consensus and widespread cynicism.

Notable Quotes:

• John Lovett (36:49): "I think about that kind of courage, like, that real courage in the face of genuine fascism in full."
• John Lovett (43:32): "America loves a tragedy with a happy ending. And so we don't like, we'd like to tell stories about America that skip over the parts where people were born and died in slavery..."

6. Personal Reflections and the Struggle to Maintain Hope (41:48 - 55:17)

Both hosts delve into personal feelings of despair and helplessness in the face of ongoing political challenges. Tim shares his sense of losing faith in America's trajectory, while John emphasizes the importance of continuing the fight despite feeling overwhelmed. They discuss the psychological toll of witnessing the rewards given to morally questionable leaders and the difficulty in maintaining motivation.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller (34:44): "I have a real belief in the specialness of America that I just don't. I just don't know if I have anymore."
• John Lovett (35:37): "The worst people are happy and the best people are sad. The worst people are vindicated and believe their worldview has been validated by this."

7. Conclusion and Looking Forward (53:07 - 55:17)

The episode wraps up with light-hearted banter and plans for future discussions. Tim and John acknowledge the emotional weight of their conversation and the necessity of continuing their dialogue to navigate the turbulent political landscape.

Notable Quote:

• John Lovett (54:07): "Peace. Be my shrink for the hour."

Key Takeaways

• Normalization of Authoritarianism: There's a profound concern that Trump's potential influence could normalize authoritarian practices within American politics, leading to a society that becomes unrecognizable to its current state.

• Media's Role in Shaping Perceptions: The interaction between media personalities and political figures plays a crucial role in either mitigating or exacerbating fears about policy changes, especially regarding immigration.

• Historical Parallels: Drawing lessons from history, particularly the rise of fascism, serves as a cautionary tale about the importance of maintaining democratic norms and resisting authoritarian tendencies.

• Psychological Toll: The ongoing political struggles are taking a significant emotional toll on individuals engaged in activism and political discourse, highlighting the need for resilience and continued engagement.

• Need for Viable Alternatives: Rather than passively waiting for political degradation, there's an emphasized need for proactive efforts to present and fight for better alternatives within the political system.

Conclusion

In "The Worst People Are Happy," Tim Miller and John Lovett navigate the complexities of the current American political landscape, expressing deep concerns about the potential erosion of democratic norms and the rise of authoritarianism. Through historical analysis, personal reflections, and critical examination of media influences, they underscore the urgency of continued engagement and the presentation of viable political alternatives to safeguard the nation's future.