The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Jonathan V. Last: Trump's Decadence Is Rubbing off on Americans
Date: February 23, 2026
Hosts: Tim Miller and Jonathan V. Last (JVL)

Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller welcomes Bulwark editor and Triad newsletter author Jonathan V. Last for a deep dive into the current political climate under President Trump. The conversation explores how Trump’s personalist, decadent approach to power is corroding American norms and expectations. Miller and Last discuss recent news on Trump’s rumored military ambitions, the U.S.-Israel relationship, the state of American aid and tariffs, the social and political meaning of U.S. hockey’s gold medal win—and darker realities on the ground in places like Minnesota. Along the way, they reflect on the collapse of traditional foreign policy, the atrophy of systemic guardrails, and the challenge of sustaining outrage in a fast-moving, scandal-saturated era.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. America's "Decadence" and Loss of Norms

• Trump’s behavior as the template: Tim and JVL agree that Trump’s personalism and disregard for institutional norms is reshaping what’s tolerated in public life, not just at the elite level but throughout society.

  “The just do stuff, as you say, that works for destroying things… You can tear apart. It doesn’t work for building things really.” —JVL (51:16)

2. The U.S. Hockey Team, the FBI, and Political Corruption

• Discussion kicks off with how the U.S. men’s hockey team celebrated its gold medal win in Milan, including letting controversial FBI director Kash Patel party with them.

  • JVL's frustration: He’s not just angry at the official, but at the players themselves for celebrating someone responsible for “preventing investigations into the murder of Renee Good and Alex Preddy.”

    “The embarrassment isn’t really for the FBI. It’s for the US Hockey team…They want to put their gold medal around the guy who won’t allow an investigation in the murder of two US citizens.” —JVL (06:19)

  • Tim identifies a dissenter: At least one unnamed, possibly “woke” player surreptitiously recorded and leaked embarrassing footage of Patel.

    "There is one woke player who is at least 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon away from ProPublica, which published the video." —Tim (05:40)

  • Broader problem: Politico Playbook and the general public largely shrug off this episode as harmless fun, which both hosts reject.

3. Trump’s War Talk on Iran

• Significant concern is devoted to Trump’s renewed saber-rattling about Iran, especially after he posted a video advocating for regime change.

  • Levin and regime change: Trump amplifies a Fox News segment (Mark Levin: “That regime needs to be eliminated to save our children and grandchildren...”) (13:09), signaling openness to large-scale military action.

  • Dissecting motives: Several competing theories are discussed:

    • Wag-the-dog distraction
    • Netanyahu leading Trump
    • Internal administration hawks
    • Trump’s ego

    Ultimately, both agree Israel’s influence and Trump’s need for dominance are likely motivators.

    “It’s much better national interest for us to be, you know, good, good relations with Denmark and Germany, but we’re not. We’re in deals with Slovakia and Hungary instead.” —Tim (26:55)

    "I think the Netanyahu answer is probably most likely." —JVL (20:36)

  • Host skepticism: Miller admits, “I don’t actually understand what they’re doing,” emphasizing how unpredictable and personally driven Trump’s decisions are. (19:02)

4. U.S.-Israel Relations and the Left’s Dilemma

• JVL’s “Innovation” theory on foreign policy: Under Trump, alliances are transactional—countries aligned with Trump personally get policy favors, not necessarily those aligned with American interests.

  "A Government, which is nice to Trump... gets American foreign policy on its side regardless of whether or not it's in America's interests. Right. It's like the opposite of America first. It's not. It's just Trump first." —JVL (26:35)

• Implications for Democrats: They debate whether Democrats should overtly distance themselves from Netanyahu’s government, or even threaten to cut off aid to regimes that undermine U.S. democracy.

  “Shouldn’t Democrats take that approach to Israel and the Netanyahu regime?... America will go back to being allies with Israel when the government of Israel no longer attempts to curry favor with the authoritarian attempt that was ongoing in America?” —JVL (29:35)

• Strategic pause: Both agree that at minimum, reducing aid (as Ben Shapiro suggested years ago) is a politically safe place for Democrats to land.

5. Collapse of American Foreign Aid—and the Political Motivations Behind It

• Aid cuts: Internal emails reveal Trump’s plan to eliminate all humanitarian funding in 16 countries (37:00).

• Contradictory logic: JVL points out the contradiction between Trump’s hard line on immigration and simultaneously cutting the very aid that could stabilize troubled regions.

  “It is interesting that the American foreign policy now is both we don’t want any Somali immigrants to America, and also we don’t want to help make things better for Somalis in Somalia. Right. Those things would seem to be in tension.” —JVL (38:14)

• Racism and decadence: Foreign aid’s unpopularity is tied both to racist attitudes and a sense of national decadence.

  “I just don’t see any other way to see this except that it’s racism. Is that too reductive?” —JVL (40:58)

6. Tariff Chaos and Economic Sclerosis

• Constant change: Trump unilaterally raises global tariffs from 10% to 15% days after the Supreme Court overturns his previous tariffs (45:19).

• Business uncertainty: This “freezes economic activity,” with both foreign governments and U.S. businesses unable to plan.

  “It really freezes economic activity for at least 150 days. And 150 days from now, we will be awfully close to the midterm elections…You can’t make plans.” —JVL (46:46)

• Systemic failure: The hosts reflect on the breakdown of legislative guardrails and the rise of 'just do it' executive governance.

  “You can just go do the things you want and who’s going to stop you?” —JVL (48:33)

7. AI: Disdain for Humanity?

• Sam Altman’s energy comparison: JVL reacts with disgust to OpenAI CEO Sam Altman’s response that training a human (via food and 20 years) is less efficient than training an AI, showing a “Matrix-style” disregard for human life.

  “This is a guy who watched the Matrix and thought Neo was the bad guy.” —JVL (55:26)

• Political opportunity: Both agree that a smart Democrat could rally support by demonizing AI companies: “We're going to make these fuckers work for us.” —JVL (60:01)

8. Minnesota’s New Reality: Occupation and Ethnic Cleansing

• Human rights crisis: JVL recounts visiting Minnesota and learning about underground home births—organized by doulas—because pregnant women fear abduction by government agents at hospitals.

  “The hospitals are basically honey traps that DHS agents stake out… people have to give birth in their homes in secret because if they were to go to a hospital to have their baby, masked agents of the state would abduct them.” —JVL (61:37)

• Dark analogy: JVL directly likens the situation to “Anne Frank territory” and ethnic cleansing, starkly insisting this is not a hyperbolic future scenario but current reality.

  “It is white nationalism. It is ethnic cleansing, and it's happening.” —JVL (64:02)

• Media challenges: The national media, overwhelmed by Trump’s ceaseless controversies, has limited bandwidth to cover these abuses, putting the burden on citizens to sustain attention.

  “The president is trying to go to war against Iran. He is going to give a State of the Union address. He is changing tariffs by the day. Just physically, you cannot keep up with all this stuff and also keep covering what is going on in Minnesota.” —JVL (65:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The embarrassment isn't really for the FBI. It's for the US Hockey team… fuck these guys.” —JVL on US Hockey Team (06:16)
• “A Government, which is nice to Trump… gets American foreign policy on its side regardless of whether or not it's in America's interests.” —JVL on Trump’s foreign policy (26:35)
• “It is interesting that the American foreign policy now is both we don’t want any Somali immigrants to America, and also we don’t want to help make things better for Somalis in Somalia.” —JVL (38:14)
• “This is a guy who watched the Matrix and thought Neo was the bad guy.” —JVL on Sam Altman (55:26)
• “It is white nationalism. It is ethnic cleansing, and it's happening.” —JVL on Minnesota immigration raids (64:02)
• “The president is trying to go to war against Iran... you cannot keep up with all this stuff and also keep covering what is going on in Minnesota.” —JVL (65:06)
• “We're going to make these fuckers work for us.” —JVL, re: AI and policy (60:01)
• “He can make any news he wants. He could call AOC a man.” —Tim, on Trump’s ability to distract (21:00)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• U.S. Hockey/Patel discussion: 03:35–08:10
• Iran/war talk and regime change: 12:58–19:46
• U.S.-Israel policy and Democratic responses: 24:16–33:48
• American foreign aid, racism, decadence: 36:59–41:56
• Tariffs and breakdown of legislative/state guardrails: 44:16–51:46
• Sam Altman/AI discussion: 54:06–60:18
• Minnesota update and reflections on activism: 61:21–68:53

Tone & Language

• Candid, often profane: JVL is especially blunt (“Fuck these guys”) and unsparing in his criticism of both Trump’s administration and those who enable or ignore systemic abuses.
• Dark humor and bleak realism permeate the episode, offset by moments of hope around small-scale activism and the need for ongoing vigilance.

Conclusion

This episode offers a sweeping indictment of American “decadence” under Trump—from trivializing corruption, disintegrating policy norms, and transactional foreign alliances, to the dire consequences for human rights and democracy at home. JVL and Tim Miller move swiftly across global and local topics, always tying them back to the underlying theme of institutional decay and the challenge of maintaining a functioning civic conscience in the face of relentless disruption. The call to keep “yowping”—refusing to normalize abuses—resonates as both a diagnosis and an imperative for listeners.

For full episodes and further analysis, see The Bulwark Podcast feed and the Triad newsletter.