The Bulwark Podcast: Marc Caputo and Dan Goldman - "Trump v. the United States" Release Date: November 20, 2024

Introduction

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a deep dive into the tumultuous aftermath of Donald Trump's administration, focusing on the chaotic transition period and the potential long-term implications for American governance. The discussion features insights from Mark Caputo, author of the Magaville newsletter, and Congressman Dan Goldman, former lead counsel in Trump's first impeachment trial.

Mark Caputo on the Trump Transition and Mar-a-Lago Chaos

Mar-a-Lago's Unruly Transition

Mark Caputo provides a comprehensive overview of the disarray surrounding Donald Trump's transition from office, particularly at Mar-a-Lago. Highlighting the unpredictability of Trump's staffing decisions, Caputo likens the situation to the "heart of darkness," referencing Apocalypse Now to emphasize the lack of order and method.

"Understanding Donald Trump as sort of the heart of darkness, Kurtz of what's happening at Mar A Lago is probably a good starting point."
[02:03] - Mark Caputo

Leadership Under Trump’s Whims

Caputo discusses Susie Wilds, Trump's former Chief of Staff, and her attempts to manage the chaos by adhering to the Serenity Prayer—accepting what cannot be changed and having the strength to change what can be. Despite her efforts, Trump's tendency to make arbitrary staffing choices leads to a menagerie of influential yet unqualified individuals taking key roles.

"Trump's fundamental nature means he's going to pick the people he wants, when he wants, and how he wants."
[02:50] - Mark Caputo

Matt Gaetz and the Gates Nomination Scandal

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the controversial nomination of Matt Gaetz for Attorney General. Caputo explains the convoluted circumstances leading to Gaetz’s nomination, including allegations of his involvement in sex trafficking with a minor—a situation made worse by poor SEO practices that allowed negative coverage to dominate search results.

"There's a lot of delusion if you're behind in a campaign to say, 'Oh, I'm going to win and I'm going to do it.'"
[09:00] - Mark Caputo

Impact on Senate Confirmations

Caputo anticipates significant challenges in confirming Trump's Cabinet nominees, citing the narrow Senate majority and internal conflicts within the Republican Party. He underscores the possibility of Trump prioritizing loyalists over qualified individuals, potentially undermining the functionality of critical government departments.

"We haven't really seen that [internal conflicts] yet within the umbrella of the former campaign team, but that could be coming."
[05:46] - Mark Caputo

Congressman Dan Goldman on Trump’s Cabinet Picks and Democratic Strategies

Critique of Trump's Appointments

Congressman Dan Goldman offers a scathing critique of Trump's Cabinet selections, emphasizing the appointment of individuals with questionable qualifications and loyalty over competency. Goldman highlights appointments like Linda McMahon to the Department of Education and Dr. Oz to CMS, arguing that these choices reflect Trump’s intent to dismantle effective governance structures.

"These are two more political sycophants, people who will do whatever Donald Trump wants."
[30:39] - Dan Goldman

The Dangers of Project 2025 and Schedule F

Goldman draws attention to Project 2025 and the controversial Schedule F, which aim to eliminate protections for career civil servants, making it easier for Trump or his appointees to replace experienced officials with loyalists. He warns that such moves could severely compromise national security and the efficiency of government operations.

"What scares me is that this is the first step in completely dismantling our executive branch and our government."
[35:03] - Dan Goldman

Senate Democrats’ Role in Mitigating Risks

Despite the Democratic presence in the Senate, Goldman expresses concern over the narrow majority and the potential for Trump to push forward his agenda unchecked. He emphasizes the importance of Senate Democrats acting swiftly to vet and challenge Trump's nominees to prevent the erosion of governmental integrity.

"The Senate still controlled by Democrats... they can request or even subpoena all sorts of information from the FBI."
[39:52] - Dan Goldman

Upholding Constitutional Responsibilities

Goldman stresses that Republican officials must prioritize their oaths to the Constitution over loyalty to Trump. He calls for accountability within the GOP, urging senators like John Thune to resist Trump's influence and protect democratic norms.

"Republican elected officials take an oath to the Constitution, not Donald Trump."
[41:00] - Dan Goldman

Electoral Implications and Party Unity

Discussing the shifting dynamics within the Republican Party, Goldman notes the potential loss of Senate seats and the fragility of the Republican majority. He underscores the necessity for party unity and strategic voting to maintain legislative effectiveness and uphold democratic principles.

"If they reach a one-vote spread, every single member of the Republican Party is the deciding vote on everything."
[44:52] - Dan Goldman

Key Insights and Conclusions

1. Chaotic Transition and Staffing Issues: Trump's arbitrary and loyalty-based appointments are destabilizing essential government functions, with significant risks to national security and administrative efficiency.

2. Controversial Nominees: The nomination of individuals like Matt Gaetz exemplifies the disregard for qualifications, prioritizing personal loyalty over professional competency.

3. Legislative Challenges: The narrow Senate majority poses substantial hurdles for confirming Trump's nominees, necessitating strategic actions from Senate Democrats to safeguard governmental integrity.

4. Long-Term Dangers: Projects like Project 2025 and Schedule F threaten to undermine the foundational structures of the executive branch, potentially leading to systemic failures and increased partisanship.

5. Democratic Responsibilities: Congressman Goldman emphasizes the critical role of Senate Democrats in challenging unqualified nominations and upholding constitutional duties to prevent the erosion of democratic institutions.

6. Republican Accountability: There is an urgent need for Republican leaders to resist Trump's influence, prioritize constitutional over partisan loyalty, and maintain the Senate majority's effectiveness.

Notable Quotes

• "Understanding Donald Trump as sort of the heart of darkness, Kurtz of what's happening at Mar A Lago is probably a good starting point."
  — Mark Caputo [02:03]

• "These are two more political sycophants, people who will do whatever Donald Trump wants."
  — Dan Goldman [30:39]

• "What scares me is that this is the first step in completely dismantling our executive branch and our government."
  — Dan Goldman [35:03]

• "Republican elected officials take an oath to the Constitution, not Donald Trump."
  — Dan Goldman [41:00]

• "If they reach a one-vote spread, every single member of the Republican Party is the deciding vote on everything."
  — Dan Goldman [44:52]

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers an in-depth examination of the ongoing challenges posed by Trump's influence on American governance. Through the expertise of Mark Caputo and Congressman Dan Goldman, the discussion underscores the urgent need for strategic Democratic action to counteract the potential dismantling of critical government functions and uphold the integrity of democratic institutions.

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